70 2 mins 7 yrs

I thought this was rather interesting.

Muslim groups are demanding Spanish citizenship for potentially millions of descendants of Muslims who were expelled from Spain during the Middle Ages. The growing clamor for “historical justice” comes after the recent approval of a law that would grant Spanish citizenship to descendants of Sephardic Jews expelled from Spain in 1492.

Muslim supporters say they are entitled to the same rights and privileges as Jews because both groups were expelled from Spain under similar historical circumstances. But historians point out that the Jewish presence in Spain predates the arrival of Christianity in the country and that their expulsion was a matter of bigotry. By contrast, the Muslims in Spain were colonial occupiers who called the territory Al-Andalus and imposed Arabic as the official language. Historians say their expulsion was a matter of decolonization.

The deeper truth is that the defeat of 1492 has not been forgiven or forgotten by Islamists. You may even recall Bin Laden referring to “the tragedy of Andalusia” – a reference to the Muslim defeat of 1492. Spain dare not grant potentially millions of muslims such citizenship.

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70 thoughts on “THE RECOLONISATION OF SPAIN

  1. The descendents of anyone Jewish Muslim or Christian expelled from lands hundreds of years ago have no right to demand citizenship of a country they have no involvement with. These historic claims are ludicrous and I say that with no regard to the religion of the people involved.

    Can we all claim citizenship of the Garden of Eden due to our great great great great etc. granny and granddad’s expulsion from there 😉

  2. The Spanish were complete idiots for allowing -any- Muslim immigration.in this era.

    They’re now surprised that Muslims are saying this?

    And the Moorish empire in Spain was that of an invader, one that was correctly expelled.

  3. //By contrast, the Muslims in Spain were colonial occupiers//

    //And the Moorish empire in Spain was that of an invader,//

    Oh dear.
    A large majority of the “Moors” expelled from Spain were as Spanish as Ferdinand and Isabel.

  4. Theoretically Spain could invoke the spirit of Columbus (1492) and re-claim much of the ‘New World’ again, instead of just sharing a similar language.

  5. Cunning Noel –

    If by that you mean that they had been born in Spain, since the Islamic conquest had happened some 700 years earlier, then I see your point.

    However it was a violent conquest all the same, which the Reconquista put right. Also, since they were muslims, and Islam has no place in Europe, it was a jolly good thing.

  6. Viva La Reconquista

    Get off your knees and stand up and learn some history.

    La Reconquista ( hint, ” re ” ) and the Crusades, were not first strikes, not by a long shot.

  7. Muslim supporters say they are entitled to the same rights and privileges as Jews

    No-one is ‘entitled’ to the same rights as Jews.

    😉

  8. //If by that you mean that they had been born in Spain, since the Islamic conquest had happened some 700 years earlier, then I see your point.//

    //and learn some history.//

    Phantom, let’s face it, both of us are aware that I know very much history and you know practically none.

    I repeat: a large majority of the so-called Moors that were expelled from Spain at the end of the Middle Ages were as Spanish as Ferdinand and Isabella, and by that I mean as aboriginal Spanish as anyone in Spain at that time could be.

  9. Those who cleaved to the Moors and to Arab culture and to the monstrous religion were correctly treated as the invading Moors themselves.

    The Reconquista is something that every decent person should honor, as a historic righting of a wrong.

  10. Noel –

    The Reconquista was a 700 year conflict of different and seperate peoples – Spanish and Moor. The Moors were defending themselves against the Spanish recovery of their lands. They would have been surprised to have heard themselves described as Spanish.

  11. You two clearly subscribe to the painting-by-numbers view of history, for all the world like some 1930s dictator who sees his empire made up of discrete and homogenous ethnic groups that are easily defined and shoved around – the way conservative America likes to see things to make them amenable to its limited brainpower.

    History wasn’t like that because life isn’t like that because people aren’t like that. There has always been a huge back and forth, broad grey areas, shaky allegiances and good-old indifference to your neat categories. People change from one to the other and back again for innumerable reasons and none. This is true for Christianity, Judaism and Islam. In view of the variety and the sheer duration of the experience between Asia Minor and western Europe, the notion that there is some identifiable ethnic-religion correlation is absurd.

    For example, at the height of the Moor civilisation, their religion wasn’t even considered as fundamentally different from Christianity, either by them or by Christians. It was no more than a schismatic branch of the church of Christ, the same as Protestantism was a century or two later. This facilitated conversion, and people drifted between one and the other for centuries, until, in this case, the Spanish was naturally the dominant ethnic element in the mix.

  12. Andalusian governance was also based on a religious tribal model. Christians and Jews, who shared Islam’s Abrahamic past, had the status of dhimmis — alien minorities. They rose high but remained second-class citizens; one 11th-century legal text called them members of ”the devil’s party.” They were subject to special taxes and, often, dress codes. Violence also erupted, including a massacre of thousands of Jews in Grenada in 1066 and the forced exile of many Christians in 1126.

    The Spanish Christians were no day at the beach, but the invader’s tolerance was over-rated. It is good that this alien weed was crushed.

  13. Phantom

    You are transmitting the rightfull hostility towards fascistic Islamic extremism of today onto the very different culture of the 1400s, where Moorish Spain was far from being the ‘Islamic State’ of its day. If anything the vicious Catholic inquisition lead ethos was the more genuine example of religious political fanaticism.

  14. Noel finally got to a point in the third paragraph, alas it was hopelessly wrong. The “painting-by-numbers view of history” was of some interest, however, since he ran with the Spanish theme.

    The Moors of course invaded a Hispania which was a Visigoth land, and therefore Germanic. It was Christian though, and this clash of civilisations, cultures and religions dominated the next 700 years of Iberian history. Some passing (and often forced) conversions are mere footnotes to the reality.

  15. Noel

    You state: “A large majority of the “Moors” expelled from Spain were as Spanish as Ferdinand and Isabel.”

    Why were they expelled?

  16. For some reason, when I attempted to leave a comment on this thread, it was blocked – testing

  17. But historians point out that the Jewish presence in Spain predates the arrival of Christianity in the country and that their expulsion was a matter of bigotry.

    Nonsense – the jews were the administrators for islam in Spain and they were rightly expelled with the muslims.

  18. This is from a link which ATW has blocked:

    What was to become of vital importance to the West was that the Jewish government was now in Europe. The directing centre and the destructive idea had both entered the West.

    The Talmudic government of the nation-within-nations was continued from Spanish soil. The Gaonate issued its directives; the Talmudic academy was established at Cordova; and sometimes, at least, a shadowy Exilarch reigned over Jewry.

    This was done under the protection of Islam; the Moors, like Babylon and Persia before, showed remarkable benevolence towards this force in their midst. To the Spaniards the invader came to bear more and more a Jewish countenance and less and less a Moorish one; the Moors had conquered, but the conqueror’s power passed into Jewish hands. The story which the world had earlier seen enacted in Babylon, repeated itself in Spain, and in later centuries was to be re-enacted in every great country of the West.

    The Moors remained in Spain for nearly eight hundred years. When the Spanish reconquest, after this long ordeal, was completed in 1492 the Jews, as well as the Moors, were expelled. They had become identified with the invaders’ rule and were cast out when it ended, as they had followed it in.

  19. New Yorker,

    //You state: “A large majority of the “Moors” expelled from Spain were as Spanish as Ferdinand and Isabel.”

    Why were they expelled?//

    Because they weren’t Christian. The same reason as the Jews were expelled.

    //Hispania which was a Visigoth land, and therefore Germanic. It was Christian though,//

    I was saying that so many of the original inhabitants of southern Spain, whether of Germanic or Latin or Celtic origin, had by the end of the 15th C converted to Islam that they formed the majority of Islamic Spain.
    You see, Ferdinand and Isabella, being obviously good Christians, weren’t as concerned with race as it seems so many people are today. These Spanish people were expelled along with the “Moors” and the Jews.

    // but the invader’s tolerance was over-rated.//

    Phantom, if there’s a point to what you’re trying to say, and there must be one somewhere, it can only be “Because the Moors were so nasty to the Jews, they can’t have been European”.

    It’s interesting, and surely baffling to anyone with Phantom’s push-button view of history, that when the Jews were expelled from southern Spain by the new Christian rulers they didn’t go rushing to France or England or other centres of civilised Christendom. They were not stupid. They made sure they went instead to, yes, other Muslim countries. The main reason for the large Jewish presence in Bosnia and Greece (both under Muslim rule then) that continued until the 20th C was the huge influx of Jewish exiles from Spain.

    I bet conservative America keeps damned quiet about that untidy fact too, although in fairness few of them will have heard of the Ottomans or the Middle Ages.

  20. Bookmark this thread . We have a case where Allan is making more sense than Noel as he speaks kindly about not one but two invading Muslim regimes

    The Moor / Islamic regime was much more tolerant of Jews than native Spanish regimes that went before. Many Jews served the the Moors — and this made the Spaniards even more anti Jewish than they had been in the pre invasion era.

    Aiding and abetting the illegitimate Ottoman invader and oppressor of Greece is nothing that anyone should be proud of either.

    It is understandable – Jews had few options in an anti Jewish Europe.but those who served the Moors or Ottomans were part of the problem.

  21. Bookmark this thread . We have a case where Allan is making more sense than Noel….

    Allan makes more sense than Noel on every thread but Phantom doesn’t have the grey matter to grasp that fact.

    As for moorish Spain and everywhere else, jews will participate in the destruction of the native white population and use any proxy to do so. Once again, islam is being used as one weapon, being wielded against western Europeans. Muslims didn’t get to Europe on horseback: they got in by planes, lorries, ships and open-borders, said borders being held open by organised jewry which infiltrated every political party which could be in power. That’s why whenever a change of government happens by election and one of the ‘promises’ made is to control immigration, it just doesn’t seem to happen and the borders remain as porous as previously.

  22. We have Irish and English open borders guys all over this site, and semi open borders Americans, and AFAIK none are Jewish.

    The wickedness that is Open Borders is not a ” Jewish ” thing, but your monomania will not allow you to think straight on this.

  23. Muslim groups are demanding Spanish citizenship for potentially millions of descendants of Muslims who were expelled from Spain during the Middle Ages. The growing clamor for “historical justice” comes after the recent approval of a law that would grant Spanish citizenship to descendants of Sephardic Jews expelled from Spain in 1492

    Granting Spanish citizenship to ancestors of those who were expelled over half a century ago? What an absolutely ridiculous notion, not least of all because ‘Spain’ as we know it today didn’t exist then.

  24. Surely, given that jews are Chosen™, they should have whatever rights they want over goyim in every country regardless of the period of elapsed time? Bear in mind that for all the expulsions, they never did nuffink.

  25. Half a contury’ is a typo: ‘half a century’ in place of ‘half a millenium’ is fundamental innumeracy

    Yeah, because I have difficulty distinguishing between 50 and 500 years – wise up.

    Numeracy to me is what facts are to you Mr Goebbels.

    I wouldn’t be so quick to point out others shortcomings:

    Half a contury

    Indeed.

  26. because I have difficulty distinguishing between 50 and 500 years

    True – and we’ve been here before

    ON ELEPHANTS IN ROOMS…

    Paul McMahon, on January 7th, 2015 at 5:54 PM Said:

    I’d wager that Britain has a greater net export market to the EU than vice versa

    Damn, that actually meant to read:

    I’d wager that Britain has a greater net export market to the EU per capita than vice versa

    Suppose the UK of 56 million Britons exports £1000 per capita to the EU of 300 million Europeans – that’s £56,000,000 exported from the UK to the EU. Suppose the EU only exports £500 per capita to the UK – that’s £150,000,000 imported by the UK from the EU. That is a huge trade deficit.

    Paul – only somebody of profound innumeracy could have attempted that one.

  27. Paul – only somebody of profound innumeracy could have attempted that one.

    🙂

    Allan, some people just don’t know when they are beat.

    No offence to Paul intended, but the those of a leftist persuasion hate nothing more than to be proven wrong.

  28. As above, then in utter desperation, they always, ALWAYS turn to Godwins law.

    Numeracy to me is what facts are to you Mr Goebbels.

  29. Harri – as you know, Paul and I had a debate about the superiority of whites over blacks in intelligence. But an apparent paradox appears every time that I’m in debate with Paul. He is white yet is as stupid as any sub-Saharan black, and that could be taken as Paul demonstrating his own point that whites are not more intelligent than blacks. On examination however, it is known that the distribution of the intelligence of white men is quite wide such that we produce a lot of idiots and a lot of geniuses which is why, on ATW there are Paul, Troll and mahons on the left-hand side, and you, me and Pete on the right at the high end.

    As for Godwin’s Law, I openly state that Adolf was right as it becomes clearer every day so calling me NS is pretty much correct and I’m not offended.

  30. Paul – only somebody of profound innumeracy could have attempted that one

    Again, numeracy to me is what facts are to you.

    In introducing such an unrelated topic onto this thread I can only assume that you’re still smarting from being made a fool of in your ‘blacks are stupid’ black international finance puppet Jason Riley balls up

  31. As above, then in utter desperation, they always, ALWAYS turn to Godwins law.

    Ah yes, the puppet master’s puppet has arrived.

    Stick to cut and paste newspaper articles Harri.

  32. Paul – blacks are generally stupid and the idea that a Nigerian scam artist could be a genius in computing is absyrd, but you believed it which is why you linked to it. As was also shown, the greater the white admixture to the black genome, the greater the intelligence potential of the Black so it’s not too difficult for a black with sufficient white admixture to become a reporter, which isn’t particular demanding of intelligence anyway.

    Here’s a good article written by an Irishman at the opposite end of the scale to you:

    http://www.irishsavant.blogspot.co.uk/2015/05/serious-problemsserious-solutions.html

    It’s now become a standard playbook. Cops (mainly White) enter a black neighborhood, altercation with local criminal ensues, criminal gets offed. And every ‘hood in the USA goes up in smoke. Cue outrage at the White cops who often end up charged with murder and/or running in fear of their lives. Now here’s my proposal. When cops enter the ‘hood just ignore crime and criminals. Don’t do anything. Look away and continue driving. End of deaths in police custody, the ensuing riots and the new business opportunities for Rev’unds Jesse and Al. And normal business continues happily in the black ‘communities’.

  33. Ah yes, the puppet master’s puppet has arrived.
    Stick to cut and paste newspaper articles Harri.

    No offence taken old chap.

  34. Paul.

    Of course blacks are not stupid, they are super intelligent.

    Oh look, let’s all rush over to one side of this boat .. nothing will happen 😉

  35. Paul is to blogging as Philip Emeagwali is to computing – the Black ineventor of the internet and one the 15 most famous Black scientists in history, according to Paul:

    http://www.cbwlondon.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=79:the-lies-of-philip-emeagwali&catid=95:history-and-culture

    But when asked whether he was aware of Mr. Emeagwali’s contribution to the evolution of the Internet, Mr. Bell said, “Not that any of my friends who worked on the Internet recall. His bio on Wikipedia is most interesting and in itself seems to be controversial,” he said, in reference to the Wikipedia article on the Nigerian scientist, which only stopped short of calling Mr. Emeagwali a liar.

  36. ineventor – another typo 🙁

    half a century = 50 years

    half a millenium = 500 years

    NOT a typo

  37. Ah yes,

    As I wrote, I heard of one – a fraud – and he is one of your 15 famous black scientists
    A fraud?

    Gordon Bell, 76, a pioneer in high-performance and parallel computing for whom the prize won by Mr. Emeagwali is named, said the entry that earned the Nigerian scientist the award had nothing to do with the Internet

    Do his internet claims detract from his other award?
    Knock yourself out with googleing the intellectual inferiority of the others.

  38. Ah yes,

    As I wrote, I heard of one – a fraud – and he is one of your 15 famous black scientists
    A fraud?

    Gordon Bell, 76, a pioneer in high-performance and parallel computing for whom the prize won by Mr. Emeagwali is named, said the entry that earned the Nigerian scientist the award had nothing to do with the Internet

    Do his internet claims detract from his other award?
    Knock yourself out with googleing the intellectual inferiority of the others.

    You’re Gobbelesque stretching, bending and introversion of facts is impressive.

  39. Of course blacks are not stupid, they are super intelligent

    I know, just ask Jason Riley.

  40. No, he’s a black international finance Jooooo proxy, according to some.

  41. No Paul, you’ve been round that mulbery bush many times before.

    And you must be confusing me for someone who cannot recognise a loyalist headbanger.

  42. And you must be confusing me for someone who cannot recognise a loyalist headbanger.

    Not at all Pete. I’m just showing that the inclination to riot is not confined to skin tone as some would like us to believe.

  43. Paul McMahon –

    Of course rioting isn’t confined to blacks. However while black men have a lot a problems and they don’t mind throwing a brick. Meanwhile white people go to school where they teach you how to be thick.

    As a conservative would say.

    “Ehem”

  44. Pete

    Are there any areas you can think of where whites riot often, and where they have done so over a long period of time?

    Israel went very far out of its way to take in the ” Ethiopian Jews “. And they are repaid with riots?

  45. Are there any areas you can think of where whites riot often, and where they have done so over a long period of time?

    You have been to Northern Ireland before haven’t you Phantom?

    And that’s even before we start on football violence.

  46. Oh I know. I’m asking Pete and Allan.

    And soccer is so boring, I’d riot too if you made me watch it.

  47. And soccer is so boring, I’d riot too if you made me watch it.

    Do you like that other ball thingy thing they play over there?

  48. Paul – is Jason Riley the Black Tesla?

    No – he wrote an article in a newspaper, and that’s as good as it gets.

  49. I like National League baseball and at times like NFL football.

    Hockey is soccer on skates so its out.

  50. No – he wrote an article in a newspaper, and that’s as good as it gets.

    Is he the exception to your premise that black people are genetically stupid?

    How are you getting on with those other scientists?

  51. Paul McMahon –

    Football violence? What decade are you living in? For a Clash fan stuck in the 70s I’d have thought you’d have recognised the obvious reference above.

    Phantom –

    No, I cannot think of anywhere that whites have rioted often and over a long period of time. Given the situation in South Africa and Western cities it’s quite sad.

  52. How are you getting on with those other scientists?

    Paul – apart from the Great Philip, I hadn’t heard of any of the “15 most famous black scientists in history”. How many had you heard of?

    Btw and to repeat, I’m not talking about ‘skin tone’. Let’s revisit:

    Allan@Aberdeen, on May 1st, 2015 at 5:40 PM Said:

    It’s not about “colour of skin” but capacity of cranium. If we agree that man originated in Africa and then left Africa, those who left Africa evolved to deal with the environments in which they found themselves, especially the seasonal availability of food. That required development of the brain to cope with the necessity of planning and collaboration. Those who didn’t leave Africa didn’t evolve: there was no need to, and that’s why blacks are the most simian of all races, and the least evolved.

    Now that’s what it’s about: discuss that.

  53. For a Clash fan stuck in the 70s I’d have thought you’d have recognised the obvious reference above.

    Of course I recognised the reference, (although I’m not sure about being stuck in the seventies), it just showed that Joe hadn’t been to Belfast yet.

    Football violence? What decade are you living in?

    So because it’s not current it didn’t happen? Got it.

    Apart from the Great Philip, I hadn’t heard of any of the “15 most famous black scientists in history”.

    So because you never heard of them they didn’t exist?

    You’d clearly never heard of a tool like Kevin Myers or a black Jooooo proxy like Jason Riley before but that didn’t stop you using them as ‘evidence’

    I’m going to assume from the attempted diversionary question you haven’t been able to dig any dirt on them.

    It’s not about “colour of skin” but capacity of cranium

    Which conveniently equates t the colour of skin.

    The rest of your ‘theory’ is supposition, inference and hypothesis.

  54. Allan wrote: Apart from the Great Philip, I hadn’t heard of any of the “15 most famous black scientists in history”.

    Paul wrote: So because you never heard of them they didn’t exist?

    Paul – please, just stop your evasions. If I believed that these 15 most famous black scientists didn’t exist, I would have said so. The question to you was:

    HOW MANY OF THEM HAD YOU HEARD OF?

    I’m not asking whether they exist or not: I’m sure that they exist, but I hadn’t heard of any except for Philip Emeagwali, and not for reasons of science. So, please, indulge me for a moment and answer the question which is straight-forward.

    Which conveniently equates t the colour of skin.

    No, it doesn’t:

    http://www.thefamouspeople.com/profiles/viswanathan-anand-5339.php

    Now Paul, please stop the evasions. I’m attempting to debate with you yet all you do is confirm my post of 6.27pm. The point for debate is:

    It’s not about “colour of skin” but capacity of cranium. If we agree that man originated in Africa and then left Africa, those who left Africa evolved to deal with the environments in which they found themselves, especially the seasonal availability of food. That required development of the brain to cope with the necessity of planning and collaboration. Those who didn’t leave Africa didn’t evolve: there was no need to, and that’s why blacks are the most simian of all races, and the least evolved.

    If you disagree, please explain why.

  55. Paul – my position statement is:

    It’s not about “colour of skin” but capacity of cranium. If we agree that man originated in Africa and then left Africa, those who left Africa evolved to deal with the environments in which they found themselves, especially the seasonal availability of food. That required development of the brain to cope with the necessity of planning and collaboration. Those who didn’t leave Africa didn’t evolve: there was no need to, and that’s why blacks are the most simian of all races, and the least evolved.

    Now is this incorrect and, if you consider it to be so, state why. The points within the statement are:

    1. It’s not about “colour of skin” but capacity of cranium – ss shown by the fact of Vishy Anand of India being the world chess champion.

    2. Environment drives evolution and, given the theory that man left Africa, those who left Africa evolved to cope with the conditions encountered, especially seasonal availability of food.

    3. Africans didn’t leave Africa (obviously) and therefore didn’t evolve hence their evident closeness to other simians.

    If these are hypotheses, suppositions, inferences, are they incorrect and, if so, why?

    As for you having heard of three of the “15 most famous black scientists in history”, I have my doubts on your sincerity particularly as you shiftily evaded the question for so long. As I wrote, I heard of one.

    On your ‘statistics’, why are Hispanics from Mexico lumped in with whites? Of the ‘ten most wanted’, six are hispanic and one is certainly a jew – that leaves three whites. But where did the blacks disappear to given their well-known propensity to crime?

    And now we’ll turn to the reality, without the diversions:

    http://mrconservative.com/2014/08/48301-startling-facts-reveal-the-color-of-crime-in-america/

    Figure 21 – victims of white crimes are mainly white with few non-whites therefore little cross-racial crime committed by whites

    Figure 20 – victims of crimes by blacks, of which most (apart from rape) are committed against other races.

    Even so, the differences between black and“white” rates of interracial crime are enormous. As Figure 18 shows, between 2001 and 2003, blacks were 39 times more likely to commit violent crimes against whites than the reverse, and 136 times more likely to commit robbery.40 There were an average of 15,400 black-on-white rapes every year during this period, 139,000 robberies, 489,000 assaults, and12,762 sexual assaults. By contrast, there were only900 “white”-on-black rapes every year, 7,600 rob-beries, 101,000 assaults, and 3,217 sexual assaults.Of all 768,879 violent interracial crimes involvingblacks and whites, blacks committed 85 percent and“whites” 15 percent.

  56. Paul – my position statement is….

    I know what your position is – it’s intellectual inferiority classed by racial denomination and it’s hypothetical, suppositional, inferential bollocks.

    Let’s have a look at your points:

    1. If it’s about capacity of cranium how do you explain the presence of those you say have a smaller intellectual capacity in professions like engineering for example?

    2. Seasonal availability of food? You do realise that wherever wild life exists there is a source of food?

    3. Africans didn’t leave Africa? Given that humans are migratory by nature I’d like to see your evidence to support that, (not to mention the fact that if you accept it it completely destroys your second ‘argument’.

    As for you having heard of three of the “15 most famous black scientists in history”, I have my doubts on your sincerity particularly as you shiftily evaded the question for so long. As I wrote, I heard of one

    You can doubt away, I don’t particularly care. Perhaps I just have a broader knowledge of historical events than you? However your red herring has no relevance to the fact that they existed as you admit yourself.

    How does this account for your intellectual inferiority theory?

    On your ‘statistics’, why are Hispanics from Mexico lumped in with whites? Of the ‘ten most wanted’, six are hispanic and one is certainly a jew.

    So no comment on the stats given? instead you zero in on the FBI’s ‘most wanted’ as a tool of obfuscation.

    And now we’ll turn to the reality, without the diversions

    Yeah, what makes your ‘proof’, (from a report by Jared Taylor’s New Century Foundation no less, ’nuff said), more verifiable than the stats contained in the link I posted?

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