34 1 min 14 yrs

Interesting to see that the Archbishop of Canterbury, the wretched DRUID Rowan Williams, is to hold a secret Communion service for gay clergy and their partners in London. The public will not be told who attends this but it is one more vivid example of the Godlessness that characterises the Anglican Communion these days. I can fully understand that the Church would want to reach out to gay people and bring them into the presence of God but NOT by accepting their sin!

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34 thoughts on “DRUID WILLIAMS TO SPLIT CHURCH OF ENGLAND

  1. >>I can fully understand that the Church would want to reach out to gay people and bring them into the presence of God but NOT by accepting their sin!<<

    Sex can only be a "sin" if it is done in a spirit of selfishness and without respect for the partner, David. Gay sex based on mutual respect, enjoyment and love is no more a sin than "straight" sex is.

    If God was so against gay sex he should not have made people with this inclination. I’m sure there are seveal gays reading ATW today who will be disappointed at you damning any meaningful sexual relationships they can have, David.

  2. >Sex can only be a "sin" if it is done in a spirit of selfishness and without respect for the partner

    Do you mean, like ‘cottaging’?

  3. Noel,

    The Bible calls homosexuality an ‘abomination’ so no matter what spin you put on it, it is a sin. The very next verse outlines the further sin of bestiality which I am sure even your tolerance could not turn into something decent.

  4. How utterly pathetic. Whichever side of this debate you are on, surely it is obvious that having gay clergy sneaking around in the shadows and having ‘secret Communion’ instead of an open service attendable by all they are being further stigmatised by this monumentally stupid move.

    If Williams wants his Church to be ‘glad to be gay’. as the saying has it. then why not have his gay clergy standing proud in the light instead of sneaking around in the dark?

  5. >>The Bible calls homosexuality an ‘abomination’ so no matter what spin you put on it, it is a sin. The very next verse outlines the further sin of bestiality which I am sure even your tolerance could not turn into something decent.<<

    No, but maybe your Bible-based intolerance should, Hospur.

    After all, the very next chapter forbids in equal measure such abominations as clipping your hair at the temples, trimming the edges of your beard and tattoos!

    So if you think the Bible tells it like it is, and believe trimming the edges of your beard is not a sin, surely you must also have a certain tolerance for a spot of bestiality.

    BTW: Ive just found a Bible Thought for the Day for all right-wing Christians:

    "You shall treat the alien who resides with you no differently than the natives born among you"
    Lev 19, 34

    Oh, but of course God did not really mean THAT!

  6. >>Theology, Noel? Really? You think you can make a good argument on this?<<

    Here’s some theology for you, Mr. Smith: Lev. 19, 34

    Go read it. Because if common humanity won’t get you to act decently with your fellow human beings, maybe some ancient law text will.

  7. Noel,

    Methinks you doth protest too much! If, as I now suspect, you are a homosexual (I’m new to this site, I didn’t know!) I want to say this very frankly to you. My view on homosexuality it identical to that of Paisley Jnr – I detest the practice but I do not detest the gay person.

  8. >>but I do not detest the gay person.<<

    Maybe not, but you discriminate against him anyway.

  9. Noel,

    I am not out to cause offence. Let’s just say you have your view and I have mine. I was speaking to a gay fella I used to work with on Saturday past actually. I can say in all honesty that not one part of me hates or even dislikes that fella.But I do consider his sexual practices repulsive.

  10. Noel,

    ""You shall treat the alien who resides with you no differently than the natives born among you"
    Lev 19, 34"

    What does that quote have to do with homosexuality, in whatever form it may take? – Or are you perhaps suggesting, albeit subconsciously, that the practise of homosexuality is an alien practise? – which is, of course, what many of us believe…:-)

  11. Two points:

    Hotspur

    Noel is well capable of arguing his own corner but I’d suggest there may be something significant in the fact you take as your nom de plume the name of a figure who, at least in Shakespeare’s telling, preferred the sweaty company of men to that of his delightful young wife and the pleasures of the marriage bed.

    Two:

    Whenever this matter raises its tired head, as a christian, I’m given to wondering why it is that fundamentalists are so exercised by the issue (or not!) of how humans combine appendages and apertures – on which issue Jesus barely expressed Himelf- while, on the other hand,they are so consistently silent on the corruptive power of earthly wealth about which matter He would not shut up?

  12. Regardless of how Noel seeks to cast those of us who do not share his enlightened(??) views of homosexuality within the Christain Church as "intolerant", whatever that may mean at any given minute, none of us who find the concept of, for example, ‘gay marriage’ to be ludicrous would ever advocate murder or imprisonment of any gay just for being gay. On the other hand, I’m sure that the attendees at the local mosque may have an opinion.
    So, Noel, get some perspective!!

  13. Alexander Bowman,

    Your last sentence raised a smile at this desk.

    As a freewheeling wandering hippy type, who bummed his way around the Middle East, spouting all sorts of condemnatory sentiments on his fellow men, I can see why he would be ‘anti-earthly’ wealth.

    Not having any readily apparent artisan skills he would have been in an even more sorry state if he hadn’t exploited that at which he was so good, i.e prosletyzing on the human physical and spiritual condition.

    Like so many truly great artists, it is ironic that he should become so famous after his death, and end up being the inspiration of the world’s best selling book.

  14. I’ve always been astounded by the persisting Christian belief that gay people have a choice in the matter.

  15. AB,

    Re ‘Hotspur’ – wrong! I do enjoy the Bard’s work mind you.

    Also, why are you so jealous when I offer an olive branch to Noel?

  16. Ernest,

    No artisanal skills? I dearly hope you never stand in urgent need of a cradle/manger or, for that matter, a cross!

    Hotspur,

    Speaking for myself, I only ever think about another person;s sexual practises if I’m planning to engage in ‘country matters.’

    My Shakespearean reference was intended to hint that, like Percy, you have an undue and perhaps (from your own point of view) an unwholesome interest in such practises. As well as the gamesome Kate’s complaints, see Hotspur’s deeply psychologically conflicted comments to the effete messenger

    Something that may be indicated by the not so subtle inferences you draw – Noel’s ‘protests’, my ‘jealousy.’ Get your hand out of your trousers!

  17. AB,

    Evidently I have unearthed another gay on this site!

    DV,

    Have I stumbled across a gay chatroom? Please advise.
    As I have stated earlier I do not hate gays but I do not love them either nor do I wish to fraternize with them!!

  18. LOL, Alexander, well spotted!

    And of course there’s that association with "Hotspur" of something hot getting stuck into an animal (Lev 18, 23).

    "Hotspur", come out! There are some of us here at least who will accept you for what you are!

  19. Noel,

    Shout from the bedroom there for AB to put the kettle on!

    I’ll come round for a cup of tea but that’s all!!

  20. ‘…I’m given to wondering why it is that fundamentalists are so exercised by the issue (or not!) of how humans combine appendages and apertures…’.

    Well, there are purpose designed and built appertures and there are those that very definitely aren’t. I think the commonly used terms are buggery or anal sex. Essentially, excuse me for being so graphic, that involves dipping the penis in excrement. Personally what another person does, as long as it doesn’t affect anyone else, is up to them. I don’t believe gay people have a choice about their sexuality but they do have a choice about how they express it. I don’t discriminate against gay people but at the same time I don’t pretend that *some* aspects of gay life are in any way normal or natural. I’m happily indifferent.

  21. Apostate,

    In the posting you refer to I was suggesting that, at least on the evidence of his utterances, the Lord was as ‘happily indifferent’ as yourselfto buggery, anal sex…penis in excrement.

    Alas, the same cannot be said for Hotspur whose interest, verging on the prurient, in such matters suggests something like an intense attraction.

    Dig, if you will, the assumption that gay men would be fighting each other to get him into bed.

    Let me just opine that there’s definitely more than a hint of sugar about that Mary…

  22. >>buggery or anal sex<<

    Guardian Apostate, should that comment not more properly have been posted in the "THERE BUTT FOR THE GRACE OF GOD…" thread?

  23. Well, its been quite a journey on this thread!

    I’ve gone from having Bible-based intolerance, from being a right-wing Christian, from discriminating against gays to actually being accused of being gay myself!

    Oh, and in between that I exposed (calm down perverts!) Noel Cunningham and Alexander Bowman as unashamed homosexuals. Bowman, amazingly, calls himself a Christian.

    From some of their lurid comments since it is apparent that the 2 queers are enjoying themselves.

    Well, as I depart this thread I thank God he gave me three daughters. As least they are in no danger from you dirty buggers!!

  24. >>As least they are in no danger from you dirty buggers!!<<

    Hotspur (or should that be Hotspurt?), you don’t know me!

  25. Hotspur

    God gave you three daughters?

    So, let me get this straight, you’re saying you conceived withoput the participation of a human father?

    What did your partner think of that? Did he suffer ridicule? Like Joseph did he, at least to begin with, consider himself a cuckold? Did he ask you ‘Who put you in this wretched position?’ Did you reassure him, ‘It’s the pigeon, the pigeon!’

    You’ve quite perceptively discerned the somewhat, shall we say, heterodox character of my christianity, Hotspur, but that’s going a bit far even for me! Not one but THREE virgin births this time! And all female! I think you should get a manager…

  26. Alexander, Noel,

    ‘Flee from the wrath to come.’

    Acknowledge your sin, turn from it, ask Christ who died for you to cleanse you, put your trust in him for salvation.

    The Scriptures tell us that, yes, there is pleasure in sin BUT that it doesn’t last. Furthermore, that ‘the wages of sin is death.’

    ‘Now none but Christ can satisfy.’

  27. >>The Scriptures tell us that, yes, there is pleasure in sin BUT that it doesn’t last. Furthermore, that ‘the wages of sin is death.'<<

    That’s all very well, A Friend, but what are we to do when people like "Hotspur" come around using this site to make his lewd contacts – a kind of Senator Craig of ATW – and making his intentions transparent in that suggestive name he chose for himself and his effete Grecian imagery ("offering an olive branch to Noel" indeed!).

    I think by now it should be clear to all of us why God did not put any sons into his care.

    AB and I are obviously safe from the likes of "Hotspur", but there are also impressionable young men like Mr. Smith around here who would not be able to see through his unhealthy advances.
    Friend, it’s them I worry about and it’s they who need your prayers.

  28. Noel,

    It will be no good for you when you are in hell talking about ‘Hotspur’.

    Do not let Satan deceive you.

    ‘Flee from the wrath to come.’

  29. Wretched Druid has a funny ring to it.

    Why anyone would name Ian Paisley, Jr. as their first choice for an authority on ANYTHING is beyond me. I mean I am pretty sure he thinks the earth is round, but I wouldn’t give him a shout out as my first authority.

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