138 1 min 14 yrs

Fascinating to read that Muslims now make up the third largest religious grouping in Ireland, latest statistics have revealed.

The figures show a 70% increase in the Muslim population between 2002-2006.

Last year’s Census revealed that in the previous decade 420,000 of the population were born outside the country. Immigration and returning Irish emigrants meant the population rose to 4,172,013 – the highest since 1861. Ireland’s Central Statistics Office (CSO) said Islam was the third largest faith group after Catholicism and Protestantism, with 32,500 people saying they were Muslims. More than 55% of those said they were either Asian or African nationals, while 30.7% had Irish nationality, said the Census.

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138 thoughts on “ISLAM FASTEST GROWING RELIGION IN IRELAND

  1. Disturbing figures, David.

    The word is that the Celtic Tiger won’t be growling for too long more. If that’s the case I wonder how the Republic will cope with tens of thousands of Muslims down on their luck. I foresee major friction.

  2. 32,500 is less than 1% of the population of the Republic, so islam has some way to go before Sharia becomes an issue.

    However, a recent statistic was that 15%-20% of the working population of the Republic was born outside Ireland. If correct, the change in the makeup of the population in the Republic must be one of the fastest ever seen in any European country for centuries, if not millennia.

  3. Absolutely JG. Infact the few muslim families I know in Dublin are also welcomed by their neighbours. As neighbours, they are not loud or disorderly or drunk, and are very friendly.

    Thanks for the info in the link btw.

  4. ‘they are not loud or disorderly or drunk’ ‘friendly’

    How retro christian of them.

    So do the new neighbours have any problems with gays or women at all? Equality at the front of their general outlook? Or is it a case of brush that under the carpet. (It is Ireland after all)

  5. ”So do the new neighbours have any problems with gays or women at all?”

    Not as far as I know . Gays and women being brushed under the carpet in Ireland. You are being the times. The gay parade through Dublin is much more colourful and non controversial than the one through Belfast. They don’t have the flat earthers of the unionist DUP/FPC howling at the moon as they march past.

    (It is Ireland after all) And theres a welcome on the mat.

  6. When Muslims were a tiny portion of the population of Holland or London or Birmingham or Paris they were quite lovely too. Once there was a critical mass in the numbers, then things changed overnight. I’m sure Dublin will be an entirely different story.

  7. All fine and dandy, ABC and JG, but here’s what The Irish Savant (Hmmm, is there such a beast as an Irish savant? LOL) blogged about it this very day:

    Why do they do it?

    Our leaders and opinion-makers may not have heard of this from the Islamic Council of Europe in 1980 "Do not integrate. Rather, concentrate Muslim presence in a particular area until you are a majority in that area, so that the institutions of the local community come to reflect Islamic structures. The education system will be Islamic, the shops will serve only halal food, there will be no advertisements showing naked or semi-naked women and so on”

    Or heard of this from President Boumedienne of Algeria in 1974 ‘Soon we shall irrupt into the Northern hemisphere. And not as friends. We shall conquer by populating your territory with our children. The wombs of our women will give us victory’.

    We know that our leaders are so dumb and blind to the obvious that in any responsible society they wouldn’t be allowed to breed. However, even they can’t have failed to see the results of their policies. Rapidly rising Muslim populations everywhere, sharply higher reproduction rates to the extent that many European cities will have Muslim majorities within 30 years. They can’t have failed to see that when a critical mass of Muslims is achieved, the very things ordered by the Islamic Council of Europe in 1980 come to pass. They surely can’t have succeeded in missing the fact that we’re being subverted from within.

    Yet when the Central Statistics Office announces a 70% growth rate in the Muslim population over the last four years, the only reaction was in the form of tremulous bleats of joy. The blind, deaf and brain-dead who tend our moral micro-climate have not allowed themselves to see.

    Question: Why do they do it? Why do they allow our country (and Continent) destroyed?

    I can only assume that they have never heard of, or grasped in even the most tangential way, the wisdom of Edmund Burke ‘concrete human experience should serve as a more valued guide than theories, predictions, or valued hopes’.

    Anyone have any hope for the future?

  8. Yeah. They’ve been a little angry since the bung-hole philosopher came out with his wee hate-book back in the year 600 whatever. The troublemakers in Europe (and Indonesia, Philippines, India, ) are not Palestinians, and the problem has nothing to do with either Israel, or Iraq. The latter only started fifteen minutes ago in historical terms, and the angry people were very very angry well before then. They’ll always be angry.

  9. That’s what i meant ABC. And re the other issues, I’m sure they will breathe new life into terrorist blood. No wonder they are welcome.

  10. Guffaw. I’m sorry Dawkins, but I checked out your link. *cough* Did you see the guy you are quoting from??

    Holy Mary mother of God!!

    I will try to read the site linked with one eye closed.

  11. ”I’m sure they will breathe new life into terrorist blood.”

    Now you’re being ridiculous. Do you mean muslims breathing new life in to Irish terrorism. Totally laughable.

  12. If adherants to a faith have been largely angry and belligerant and intolerant and overbearing for about 1200 years, they’re likely to continue to be angry and arrogant for the next 1200 years. Trust me on this one. Christianity is a spent force, and Europe is ripe for the picking here. You will not know what hit you.

  13. Phantom,

    Have you been looking into your crystal ball. Christianity is a spent force? You’re listening to too much David Vance and his view of a post christian society. Reading too many right wing books demonising a religion because they fear it. A life lived in fear is a life lost.

    Do not get mixed up in Political islam which wants a caliphate and muslim domination with ordinary peace loving muslims who want nothing more than to live a holy exsistence in this world.

  14. ABC,

    It’s all black and white around these parts, good and evil, us and them etc.

    Complete tosh, as we know, but there you go.

    I’m studiously avoiding work at the moment, that’s what has me here! It’s also my excuse for being in front of my pc on a Saturday nigtht. 🙂

  15. ABC,

    The pic actually shows a German :0)

    I came across him several times on the net. When he’s clothed he wears a T-shirt that sez, "I Beat Anorexia".

  16. Dawkins,

    I read that site with one eye closed. That fat guy is obnoxious in physique and even more obnoxious in his political opinions.

    The site is nothing more than racist rantings.

  17. Muslim anger, among other things caused by the shock of contact with all modern societies. By the dominance of the non-Muslim world. By the complete and total lack of accomplishment by the Muslim world. By the failure of the rest of the world to accept the Muslim religion. By the hatred from their holy book, that inflames Muslims in all regions of the world.

    The deep anger and intolerance that is at the root of Islam can be found in the pages of the Koran. Don’t be asking me–read the Koran ( not some multiculti interpretation of it–read the real thing for the full effect ).

  18. Yeah Dawkins, I didn’t think much of it either and I couldn’t figure why he had a picture of Mary Harney on his profile!

  19. ABC

    I don’t need David Vance to tell me that Christianity is utterly spent. Look around. In Europe, it’s toast. In America, not so much, but on the way.

  20. ”I don’t need David Vance to tell me that Christianity is utterly spent”

    Christianity is not spent. The christian church has come through much more difficult persecution than indifference. Christianity will survive and flourish. I still go to mass where there is standing room only on a Sunday.

  21. You’re right, ABC. These things tend to run in cycles and Christianity is a long, long way from being spent.

  22. Dawkins: "I can only assume that they have never heard of, or grasped in even the most tangential way, the wisdom of Edmund Burke ‘concrete human experience should serve as a more valued guide than theories, predictions, or valued hopes’."

    Worth repeating: ‘concrete human experience should serve as a more valued guide than theories, predictions, or valued hopes’.

    ABC and JG: Vis-a-vis the influx of Muslims when they reach critical mass: why should Ireland be any different than The Netherlands, or for that matter the Paris banlieus??

    And why shouldn’t they reach critical mass? What is there to stop them?

  23. JG,

    "I couldn’t figure why he had a picture of Mary Harney on his profile!"

    Damn, you done stole my thunder! :0)

  24. "Christianity is not spent."

    I hope that you are right, but I fear you are not. Indifference a far more enemy than persecution.

    Nothing could kill the Church during the days of persecution. Now MTV and a company car do the job without a struggle.

    The pedophilia scandals and the Catholic Church sped the process along immesaurably in Ireland and the USA.

    And the Anglican/Episcopalian Church-what does that organization even stand for anyway, other than having a nice day?

    The only remnant I see is the fundamentalist Protestants–the Baptists, etc.

    But as for the rest–I see older women going to Church out of belief, and some younger families going to Church for the sake of tradition and for the kids, but I can’t see that lasting much longer. So much has ebbed away.

    In Europe, I see most of the Christian Church as a dead man walking. Speak to me in 40 years, and we’ll see who’s right.

  25. The Phantom,

    "Nothing could kill the Church during the days of persecution. Now MTV and a company car do the job without a struggle."

    My my, how beautifully put, my man! Respect.

  26. –These things tend to run in cycle–

    No they do not. The Jews and Christians of the Middle East were thrown out, exterminated, or converted, often at the sword. There are hardly any Jews left in the Arab World, and Christianity is in precipitous decline, Egypt included.

    When will this 1200 year old cycle be reversed?

  27. Lets sort this out. I see two things going on here. One is ‘critical mass’, that is an immigration issue. What is to stop them, here we have a discussion going on about open borders. We are in the EU, that won’t be reversed. People are going to come into Ireland as they did in Britain, or anywhere else in Europe. It’s about free movement, free market and the rest.

    Phantom (I believe) is discussing a religious war.I don’t see why the two should be discussed as though they were a single issue because they are not.

    What really surprises me is that the biggest condemnation of immigrants is coming from America, a nation built on it. To couch it in religious terms is a fudge.

  28. Phantom, i think you’ve exaggeratted the death of the Church in America, at least down south here. Our cathedral in Dallas has average Sunday attendence of 14,000, second only to St Pat’s. Mostly Hispanic, but good Catholics.

  29. No its not a fudge. You may not have declared on them, but they’ve declared war on you.

    And I know of no figure in US public life who is opposed to immigration. Which is not the same as "illegal immigration"

    A common and dishonest tactic here is to call those who oppose illegal immigration as being "anti-immigrant"

    What part of Europe is Pakistan or Saudi Arabia in? Free movement within Europe is one thing, but what possible advantage is there to Europeans to having people from such places immigrate into their countries?

  30. Phantom,

    How many times has Jerusalem changed hands? What about the Crusades? 1200 year old cycle? I don’t think so.

    I’m just back from the Middle East where I spoke to many Christians who, funnily enough, had an excellent relationship with their Muslim neighbors. Despite being a minority, they said they felt included.

    In fact, the main reason Christians are leaving towns like Bethlehem, Beit Jala and Beit Sahour is Israeli terror, not their Muslims neighbors whom they consider their brothers and sisters, despite what a lot of people might like to think.

  31. Phantom it appears to me that you may have read the Koran, and misinterpeted it. Do you know what sufism is? Is it hate filled, no it is not.

    You are looking at this through a lens promoted on this site, a right wing jaundiced eye of all things Koranic. David Vance is not someone I’d look to on religious matters, nor many who share his view of religion who are on this site.

    WWhat possible traits of Christianity is there in someone calling for killing and bombing. It is hardly indicative of the inner peace of a true christian.

  32. The Crusades, like Muslim Spain, are the canards that are always raised.

    The Crusades were military campaigns that were a reaction to the Muslim military conquests.

    As in Spain, the reconquesta of the Christians was the right and proper response to the conquesta from down south.

    The "Christian Palestinians" will continue to have excellent relations with Muslims until a couple of generations, when the last one will be dead or converted. Its all very excellent. And the Christian numbers will continue to go down in every Arab land. Can’t blame all of it on the Israelis.

  33. I’m sure they will breathe new life into terrorist blood

    John, that says a lot about you.

    —-

    Funny JG, i thought the same of you when you said ‘welcome’. ABC is just a bit thick. You on the other hand are a useful fool.

  34. ABC: "What really surprises me is that the biggest condemnation of immigrants is coming from America, a nation built on it. To couch it in religious terms is a fudge."

    A fudge for what?

    I’ll make it simple for you:

    Not all immigrants are "equal." In fact, there are significant difference between immigrants, just as there are significant differences between languages.

    In the US — our current issue is illegal immigration from Mexico.

    In Ireland, the current issue is immigration over the porous EU borders into Ireland and the post here is about Muslim immigrants.

    Muslim immigrants represent a different kettle of fish than Mexican immigrants.

    Religion and culture comprise the key difference.

    There is a currently a jihadi movement in the Muslim culture worldwide – forget history – just look at the present- and this religious/political movement is violent, and aims to take over Western Civilization.

    The contemporaneous Muslim jihad movement is antithetical to Western Civilization. Mexican culture is not antithetical to Western Civilization.

  35. ABC

    Rightly or wrongly, I’ve felt this way for some time, long before I heard tell of this place.

    I don’t claim to be a Muslim scholar, all I can say is I’ve read what I’ve read, and I’ve noticed that the blood keeps on flowing, worldwide, and its not the Lutherans or Buddhists that are responsible.

  36. ‘In Europe, I see most of the Christian Church as a dead man walking’

    Odd comment. Apart from the christian democratic parties, strong xenophobic parties and the fact that the Catholic church, for one, is still very much established in it, i cannot see how you have much of an argument there. That would not stand up to scruntiny.

  37. Why have you put Christian Palestinians in quotes?

    Palestinian Muslims are killing and/or converting their neighbors?? Really??

    That’s why Christians in the West Bank say they’re leaving, Phantom.

  38. ABC: Why will Ireland — if there are masses of Muslim immigrants — fare any better than the Netherlands or the Paris banlieus?

    Will the Irish Muslims be assimilating? Why and how will they assimilate?

    What will stop the Irish Muslims being recruited into islamic jihad, as in London?

  39. Patty,

    "The contemporaneous Muslim jihad movement is antithetical to Western Civilization."

    Exactly right.

  40. John: The decline in church membership, and church attendance is an oft-repeated statistic put out by the churches themselves.

  41. Patty

    I respect Mexicans a lot. Their government is a disgrace but the people I see are cheerful and have a terrific attitude for hard work. As do many East Europeans.

    Today, I had work done on the front doors to my house. By a burly Polish carpenter and a Mexican helper. They arrived on time, worked very hard for five hours, and did a perfect job for me.

  42. The problem with your simple model Patty is this. It’s too simple to pick and choose who you will let in and who you will keep out.

    What of the converts, whose numbers are rising significantly? Wasn’t it Aquinas who said to beware of the zeal of the convert. How are we to root them out? Persecute them, and drive them underground.

    Deport all those who come from certain parts of the world, whether they want to embrace the west or not? How about sterilising the women.

    Doing all of that, would take care of the muslim problem – immigration, converts and the birth rates. Isn’t that the strategy for muslim growth?

    Your picking and choosing about who to let in and who to keep out suffers from being too simple. Very few muslims in Ireland from what I see are looking to kill anybody off.

  43. Paris? Paris does not wash. Stretching it now. There are many issues with muslims but the outskirts of Paris is not one of them. Established xenophobic parties will keep them in check. Barking up wrong tree there Patty. To argue this ‘welcome muslims’ ignorance here in the thread you need to be wiser than that.

  44. hmm so muslims make up about 0.75% of ROIs population.From what I’ve read on the US, it has a population of about 2.8 million muslims out of what, 300 million?, which is amost 1%. So maybe Phantom should cast a cold eye on his own countries demographics, before coming out with premature doomsday predictions. On a positive note, the Irish universities aren’t funded by saudi petro-dollars like many US institutions….

  45. The Phantom,

    "I respect Mexicans a lot. Their government is a disgrace but the people I see are cheerful…"

    Huh? I lived in Mexico for a year and the peeps I saw were dourer than Ulstermen. Maybe the ones you see are living in the USA — and thanking their stars they left Mexico.

  46. Phantom funnily enough it is not muslims that one hears complaints about in Ireland, but East Europeans. But I agree they are hard working.

  47. Patty

    Can you be more specfific. America, maybe, UK, maybe though the influx of central Europeans adds numbers to benches. In Central and South America the move is away from catholicism towards other more evangelical religions which is worrying for North America. In central Europe, Spain and Italy mainstream religion jostles with modernism but remains strong.

  48. Mr. Burns

    We had a head start. And you may want to import French food, but you don’t have to import the same type of issues that they are now plagued with.

    JG

    Where I live in Brooklyn, there have always been lots of Lebanese, Syrians and yes "Palestinians". (It was an ethnicity that was only invented with the creation of Israel so thats why the quotes)

    Many of them are Christians. They came here for the opportunity. And because of the fact that its never been a good thing to be a Christian in a Muslim country.

  49. Dawkins

    Generalizations are a dangerous thing…but the Mexicans I see working in stores, construction, or anywhere else, are very hard working. They will give the Chinese or the East Europeans a run for their money any day of the week.

    Even in a bullshit job with an illegal work status, here they have opportunity that they can never have in a corrupt toilet like Mexico. They love to work.

    The guy(s) today took no breaks, and refused my offer to get coffee for them. They wanted to work intensely and get the job done right, fast. And thats what they did.

  50. ABC: "It’s too simple to pick and choose who you will let in and who you will keep out."

    Yes!! Your light switch is on!!!….Why do you think so many are jumping up and down about this issue!!

    No, IT’S NOT SIMPLE!!…and before it’s too late and Ireland has its ownvery own set of Saudi-funded mosques recruiting and training jihadists, maybe it should be figured out. Instead of ignored. Instead of buried under cries of " Islamophobia" etc. (The same goes for America, BTW)

    John: "Barking up wrong tree there Patty. To argue this ‘welcome muslims’ ignorance here in the thread you need to be wiser than that."

    Yeah, you strike me as a real penetrating thinker! (sarc.)

    Listen, maybe the rioters in the Paris banlieus are only unemployed youths, hurt by not being accepted, bored etc. — and vast quantities of yet more financial aid etc. will raise their self-esteem and their possibilities –and they will develop a work ethic and strive to succeed. (tone of disbelief)

    They don’t pray 5 times a day – but they are culturally Muslim, majority from North Africa – and the Western Work Ethic, God and Country, Law and order isn’t part of the value system.

  51. Phantom, where’s your evidence of Muslims creating unrest in Ireland, or are you once again demonstrating your talent for speaking from the arse about things you know nothing about?

  52. Phantom,

    They move away because it’s better than living under a brutal occupation.

    Palestinian Muslims are killing and/or converting their neighbors?? Really??

  53. Where did I say that there was any evidence of that?

    I take note of the problems that they have created throughout the rest of Europe and most of the rest of the world. But I am sure that Ireland will be
    very different

  54. and the Western Work Ethic, God and Country, Law and order isn’t part of the value system.

    The same can be said for many of the white "working class" in the UK. Many of them leave school at 16 functionally illiterate and immediately drop into the criminal classes, dealing drugs to support their own druggie lifestyles.

  55. The Phantom,

    I wasn’t commenting on the Mexicans’ work ethic. I lived beside a construction site and was astonished that several builders could hammer non-stop for hours at a time, in fierce heat. Hard workers they certainly are. But they’re a dour lot — in general.

  56. Chris, both Patty and Phantom are corretct in one thing. Unless we begin by integration there will be ghettos, and alienated youth, (not necessarialy muslims). We do need to learn from the mistakes of others, rather than repeat their mistakes.

  57. The "Christian Palestinians" will continue to have excellent relations with Muslims until a couple of generations, when the last one will be dead or converted – Phantom.

    So, were you just shooting your mouth off or do you have evidence?

  58. The Phantom: I’ve known Mexicans all my life. Love them dearly.

    There are 2 distinct classes in Mexico, as you probably know. The upper class is extremely sophisticated and would be "at home" on the ski slopes of Gstaad, Switzerland or on the beaches of Cannes,France.

    The lower class is peasant stock, little to no education, and very unsophisticated. They are wonderful with children, hard and dedicated workers,and heading North for work in droves. Honest, play their radios too loud and keep verymessy work sites. They don’t value education as much as Americans, and this is a problem for LA public school system as they let their kids skip class etc.

    I recently had a team of Polish workers at my house. They were wonderful. Clean. Gentlemanly. Picked up their trash. Brought in my paper. Dedicated hard workers. Good English. Smart. Like Israeli workers in LA, they will do anything, and do it well. And they do it for a decent price. I don’t think these recent immigrants will be in the manual trades for long — their children are all in colleges, taking violin lessons etc.

    I know the above generalizations might be shockingly unPC to some. TOugh.

  59. ABC,

    "Unless we begin by integration there will be ghettos, and alienated youth, (not necessarialy muslims)."

    I don’t think it’s "us" who need to integrate. We’ve done that for centuries if not millennia. But have you visited the like of Bradford lately? I think you’ll find that very few Muslim immigrants are prepared to integrate, usually the middle-class and educated. They do truly abhor Western society. They consider us degenerate and way too "lenient" with "our" women.

    I repeat my earlier warning: I foresee major friction.

  60. JG

    Look at the change in religious demographics in the entire Arab World and you will find your answer.

    Patty

    I like the lower class. If Mexico paid any attention to them, they wouldn’t have to sneak into the US.

    Yes, they’re almost uneducated, but that’s the fault of Mexico.

    This may come as a surprise to some of the Europeans here, but some of the Mexicans, including those who immigrate to the US, have a lot of Indian blood in them. With some, its very evident. Distinctive features, and language–for some, Spanish is a second language.

    But if Mexico, including the fancy guys like Vincente Fox and his ilk had lifted a finger to help this underclass, everyone would have been better off.

  61. ”I foresee major friction.”

    Like rivers of blood? C’mon now there are tensions but that is hardly the fault of muslims. Added to that there are many young muslim men and women who have turned to Islam and wear traditional dress as a political statement, to differentiate themselves rather than any thing to do with religion.

    Again that has to do with immigration and the segregation of ethnic minorities, not the Koranic faith. These people are using Islam as a political tool rather than a religion.

  62. –I repeat my earlier warning: I foresee major friction–

    Wish you were wrong, but there is a 100% chance you are not. These warnings, like those Churchill gave about Germany, will be scoffed at. When major friction does take place in Ireland, it will be blamed on "Irish racism and intolerance".

    Lock this one in the time capsule. It will be fact.

  63. The Phantom,

    Good that you highlight the plight of the "Indian" Mexicans.

    And yes, very few Europeans realize they’re the underclass in Mexico. There’s a whole caste system there that I can only describe as vile.

  64. Dawkins

    You’re right.

    This plays into a belief that I’ve long had that by far the major cause of world poverty is internal economic and social repression within poor countries than anything that the developed world does or does not do.

    This is certainly true of Mexico and of most of Latin America barring Chile and some other places. A lot of these countries, incl Peru ( until recently at least ) made it really hard for people to establish businesses. The rich class likes things fine the way they are and they don’t want any competition.

  65. Look at the change in religious demographics in the entire Arab World and you will find your answer

    No evidence then.

  66. Phantom

    "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in the clothing of sheep, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. By their fruits you shall know them. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
    Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit, and the evil tree bringeth forth evil fruit"

    Mathew 7:15-20

  67. ABC: "Added to that there are many young muslim men and women who have turned to Islam and wear traditional dress as a political statement, to differentiate themselves rather than any thing to do with religion."

    It doesn’t make any difference WHY some sign on to a totalitarian movement. The end result is the same. Look at Hitler, Stalin, Mao – etc. So many idealists, or romantics, or just lost souls, looking for meaning — the end result was powerful totalitarian movements.

    The radical islamic movement justifies itself by citing the Koran and fundamentalist immans are leading the movement. Moderate Muslims fear to speak because they have no theological ground to stand on. They risk being called out as heretics.

    Islam has no "Pope" per se, and that is one of the main problems with stemming the current momentum of violent jihad and why the problem is so intractable. Immans can preach violent jihad citing the Koran, and noone can call them on it.

    The Phantom: I think Mexico’s political elite is very corrupt; Mexico’ s economy is corrupt and there is little will to fix it.

    In a way, America’s "welfare outreach" to Mexico’s poorest allows Mexico’s elite to continue with their corruption unscathed. If we stopped the flood of illegal immigrants, Mexico would be forced to solve her corruption problems and fix her educational system and economy.

  68. Phantom,

    Today, I had work done on the front doors to my house. By a burly Polish carpenter and a Mexican helper.

    I will ask you the same question I asked Charles in Texas when he made a similar statement: Were they in the US legally? If not, you are part of the problem of illegal immigration (as was Charles).

  69. Phantom,

    My hat’s off to ya! As Charles, Monica and Troll will attest, we may disagree on everything else, but we agree that illegal immigration is wrong and must (and can) be stopped.

  70. Patty

    I agree 100% with your post at 12.01. It should be obvious that islamism is the new fascism, especially to atheists like me.

    However, we do need to distinguish between the followers of the prophet and the jihadist followers of the prophet. None of us know what the proportion is, and no doubt it varies between countries and decades. The problem will be how to identify the jihadists from the masses of islam in the 21st century.

  71. Islam is the perfect religion for Ireland and Ireland the perfect place for the Islamists to immigrate to, also the same reason why so many native borns would join it.

    Both cultures worship TERRORISTS they were made for each other

  72. Peter: Agreement!?!

    It would be a grand start if Western governments would disallow Saudi funding of mosques in the West — at least until churches and synagogues are allowed in Saudi Arabia.

    And making any "religious" materials like pamphlets and CDs which promote jihad should be made permanently illegal.

  73. Actually, Troll-man, the terrorists in Ireland have a miniscule support nationwide. Trust me on this, even if my friend Gaskin does not.

    In the Free State, Sinn Fein polled not much above the Celtic version of the Official Barking Loony Party.

    They do have significant support in Armagh/NI, but a lot of that stems from real British misdeeds over recent and not so recent history, and –very recently– the fact that they had positioned themselves as a "peace party", as they were for the process that was underway–a good process, on balance, though my friend Mr. Vance will disagree with me on that one.

    I’ve said it before–Sinn Fein support has peaked on both sides of the border. Recent events will accelerate this decline. They and their closest allies are not fit to govern anything.

    Which is a long winded way of saying: don’t be so sure about that. There are those who worship terrorists there, but a vastly greater majority nationwide who hold terrorists in the deepest contempt.

  74. Troll, have you even managed to find Ireland on the map yet. Your knowledge of it would fit on a stamp…a small stamp at that

  75. Phantom,

    >>(Muslims) have been largely angry and belligerant (sic) and intolerant and overbearing for about 1200 years, <<

    >> Muslim anger, among other things caused by the shock of contact with all modern societies….<<

    For many centuries the world of Islam was in the forefront of human civilisation and achievement.

    >> …by the dominance of the non-Muslim world.<<

    For most of the MA, the dominant force in Europe was the Byzantine Empire, which was gradually superseded and then eliminated by the advancing Turks.

    >>By the complete and total lack of accomplishment by the Muslim world<<

    In most of the sciences and arts of peace, medieval Europe was the pupil and the Muslim world, on which it was dependent, the teacher.

    >>Trust me on this one.<<

    Ehh.. well, if you fancy yourself as a history teacher, I’d rather not.

    As for the Muslims in Ireland, we’d deal with them the same way as we did with the Dane, Norman and Saxon – make them more Irish than the Irish themselves – and leave the hysteria to the paranoics in the UK and the US (and the simply deluded, such as Troll).

  76. Believe that in ancient Ireland someone invited the English in. To the immense catastrophe that followed.

    The equivalent here is "”One word; welcome.”"

    Lets see if an immense catastrophe follows here. Look to the French suburbs and see your future.

  77. Noel: "For many centuries the world of Islam was in the forefront of human civilisation and achievement."

    So what!!!

    For many centuries, the world of ancient Rome made human sacrifices to their Gods also. .

  78. ”Troll, have you even managed to find Ireland on the map yet. Your knowledge of it would fit on a stamp…a small stamp at that”

    Kloot you are being too kind.

  79. >>"For many centuries the world of Islam was in the forefront of human civilisation and achievement."

    So what!!! <<

    Well, it destroyed Phantom’s argument. But apart from that nothing.

    >>have you even managed to find Ireland on the map yet.<<

    Kloot, he’d have to know what a map is first.

  80. Everything which islam claims for itself within science and mathematics was stolen from Jews, Assyrian and Coptic Christians, Hindus, Zoroastrians, Byzantines and all the other peoples who were slaughtered in the name of their (moon-) god and the paedoplhile ‘prophet’. In short, islam has given the world nothing of value.

  81. To the 3 Stooges above the IRA/SF is a terrorist party, Ireland gives sanctuary to terrorists, and they elect terrorists to serv in government.

    These things are facts. You can live in all the denial you want but when push comes to shove Ireland is nothing more than a bannana republic.

  82. Troll,

    The island of Ireland is made up of the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland. A fact you dont seem to be aware of. In the ROI, the parliament is called the Dail. In NI its just an assembly, a glorified form of local government.

    So, if you can, could you name one terrorist in government in the Republic of Ireland, and explain just a little further why you think that the ROI is a banana republic

  83. "You can live in all the denial you want but when push comes to shove Ireland is nothing more than a bannana republic."

    LOL! He can’t even spell banana!!

  84. Klott, don’t bother trying to explain that to a simpleton like Mr Troll, he’ll just end up overheating his single braincell trying to understand!!

  85. Troll specializes in the idiotic comment (all Ireland worships terrorists) so what more can one expect of him.

  86. Well he said about a year ago that the Irish Republica was a marxist communist tyranny on par with cuba and north korea, seriously how does this guy manage to homeschool his kids, unless he justs posts here when drunk?

  87. Ahh yes I specialize in the idiotic comment and I’m an idiot because I kan’t spell. Such well thought out and convincing comebacks that you have changed my point of view….LOL

    First of All I never said ALL of Ireland supports terror but enough of it’s citizens do that the terrorists have their own political party. IRA/SF

    Mahons I am dissapointed at you, Not at your position just at the level of your insult. I know you can manage much better than that pathetic attempt.

    Mr. Burns I direct this directly at you Whats the matter fruitcake are you incapable of addressing me directly?

    If you disgree with what I have to say state your reasoning why you believe that a country that exports terrorists to other areas of the world to aid Castro and other scum, provides a sanctuary for terroists and idolizes those that blow up woman and children in the name of a united ireland should be thought of anything more than a backward bannana republic.

    You have stated nothing to dispell those FACTS and thats what they are facts.

    Instead the only thing your limited mind can spew out is remarks about my children and their education.

    Well my children won’t grow up worshiping Irish Scum that plant bombs that blow up school children unlike your parents my children will understand the difference between MURDER and war in the name of defense. It’s a shame your mother and father failed so miserably.

  88. Troll, by the above post, you’re just showing yourself up as an even bigger moron than you appeared to be before 🙂

    Most of your points are so hyperbolic and generalised I don’t think it’s worthwhile for any sane person to address them. Now come back and reply in an intelligent manner when you’ve sobered up please.

  89. Once again you speak from your ass and not your mouth let alone a mind. Not once have you stated why my position is incorrect and why yours is.

    You are incapable of refuting my position that Ireland is a terror supporting state, or that the IRA/SF is anything other than a party rooted in terror.

    Your lack of rational thought is proven by the absense of any argument other than personal attack. it is a shame that you are probably capable of breeding and will more than likely pass your inferior genes onto some poor child.

  90. Dawkins, terrible things were said about him and his family on these threads – he’s more than allowed to hit back.

  91. I figured Dawkins, you always seemed to be a fair player before….except when you decided to take a piece out of my hide! 🙂

  92. Troll: I don’t need my best insults to defeat you in debate, my B game is good enough. I will say I finally found something you know less about than the United States, and it is Ireland and its people. Your comments are very confused. There is no broadbased support for the modern day IRA in Ireland, they are seen correctly as the criminals they are.

  93. Alan – that would be my nice backside! Dawkins can eat some serious ground when he’s intent on a point. He’s a good debater.

    No photos, sorry.

  94. You are incapable of refuting my position that Ireland is a terror supporting state, or that the IRA/SF is anything other than a party rooted in terror.

    troll if you are going to lob potshots such as these i would suggest you stand on firmer ground. i doubt any country has supported more terrorism worldwide in the last 60 odd years than the USA.

  95. just in from a flight from brussels. it was delayed and i missed the bus from dublin. im still saving for the private jet.

  96. DT: I can’t believe the non-interventionist Chinese or Russians don’t just give you airplane with all the pr you do for them.

  97. i see ATW isnt wasting its time with the latest news from the vulcans and that NIE on Iran.

    Bush lied, nay they all lied AGAIN!

  98. I can’t believe the non-interventionist Chinese or Russians don’t just give you airplane with all the pr you do for them.

    its in the shop for a tune up. I do miss my Tupolev.

  99. You are incapable of refuting my position that Ireland is a terror supporting state

    Troll, again I must ask, when you say Ireland is a terror supporting State, what do you mean. The island or Ireland contains two state jurisdictions, the Republic of Ireland and the 6 counties of Ulster ( i.e. Northern Ireland) which is part of the United Kingdom. SF/IRA are in government in NI, which is part of the UK. There is no All Ireland state.

  100. By the way Troll, its not the fact that your commenting on Irish affairs that annoys me, not in the least, quite the opposite, its the unbelievable generalisations you make without guard for the fact that your knowledge of Irish affairs is so limited.

  101. I say kick the muslims out of ireland now before it’s too late. Phantom is on the ball. The Irish are total idiots and deserve what’s coming to them.

  102. The Christians of Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, and even Saudi Arabia were never converted by the majority Muslims in these countries for over 1400 years now.

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