95 2 mins 14 yrs

Wonder what English readers make of the news that an Irish language group made up of teenagers living in Britain have delivered the report to 10 Downing Street calling for Gaeilge to be introduced into schools across Britain?

The report, ‘Raising Standards, Offering Choice’ found that Irish is currently the fourth most popular choice among a typical sample of children in British schools. (Yeah, sure) Student Simon Hughes (18) said the report called on Prime Minister Gordon Brown to consider introducing Irish onto the syllabus of at least one school in every major British city. "The report that shows that at least five per cent of schoolchildren in Britain would like to study Irish," he said. Student Gemma Clarke said the group was determined to get its message across to the British and Irish governments.

These people are language fanatics and I trust this nonsense will be dismissed. There is only one language that English schools need concentrate on and that is ENGLISH! The joys of French, German even Chinese have much more relevance than an obscure alleged "language" such as Irish, in my view.  

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95 thoughts on “IRISH ON THE ENGLISH CURRICULUM….

  1. >>The joys of French, German even Chinese have much more relevance than an obscure<<

    Agreed.
    But why do you put the Irish "language" in inverted commas? It is every bit as much a language as English or German is.

  2. Simon Hughes, 18, says: The report that shows that at least five per cent of schoolchildren in Britain would like to study Irish

    Cobblers. I doubt that even 5% are aware of the Irish "language". Simon Hughes, 18, sounds like a budding politician.

  3. I’ll repeat my question for you, Pete, although I somehow suspect you’re even less fit to answer it than David is.

  4. Noel, the Oirish ‘language’ is a fictional creation much like the Klingon Language. In this case it is simply an instrument used by insurrectionist Oirish nationalist pondscum to advance their sickening anti-British agenda further.

    Liberal fools such as the student mentioned above should be ashamed to call themselves Britons.

  5. If the Belgians and Norwegians can raise their children to be bi-lingual why can’t we. Agreed the English need to build up their own identity but why should that stop or interfere with the rest of us?

    The English that is dominant now in Britain is far from proper English anyway. There is almost a sub language in it, its not mainstream. English has become Americanised and computerised, so much so that its almost foreign.

  6. ABC: "The English that is dominant now in Britain is far from proper English anyway. There is almost a sub language in it, its not mainstream. English has become Americanised and computerised, so much so that its almost foreign."

    Belgians, Norwegians, Dutch — they’re bilingual out of necessity. It’s just plain silly — and totally unnecessary — to add "bilingualism" to a curriculum that – as you point out — can’t get the basics done.

    You don’t add "juggling" to the course work of a math major who is weak in calculus, do you?

  7. ”Belgians, Norwegians, Dutch — they’re bilingual out of necessity. It’s just plain silly — and totally unnecessary — to add "bilingualism" to a curriculum that – as you point out — can’t get the basics done.”

    Okaaay point taken, but on that basis an awful lot of ‘useless’ subject would have to be removed. Lets shove the useless language in the bin with religion? drama? and many others. How about Urdu since they are planning to add that?

    Language defines who we are. If Irish speakers in Britain want their children to be taught Irish, why should they not have the same right as other peoples in a multi cultural country? Because its Irish and we suffer from bad neighbourliness?

  8. What ever your views on the teaching of Irish, im a tad surprised David, that you appear to be even questioning its status as a language. Is that really your intention. If it is, its a misguided view. Its most definitely a language, with a large volume of supporting literature.

  9. ABC: "why should they not have the same right as other peoples in a multi cultural country?"

    Multiculturalism is not really working out, is it?

    Let’s face it – not all cultures are created equal and not all should be accorded equal rights -. I point to to the pending mayhem soon to be created when Shar’ia becomes forced down the throat of certain neighborhood legal establishments. Some cultures are better than others.

    Also, why should the minority be allowed to undermine the majority? Why should resources be taken away from the teaching of English for a small minority? This isn’t a human "right."

  10. Noel, the Oirish ‘language’ is a fictional creation much like the Klingon Language

    Rubbish. I cant believe that a person claiming to be educated on matters Irish believes that the Irish language is fictional. Its obviously not the case.

    Irish is very much a language and its misuse by some does not in any way take from its legitimacy.

  11. ”Multiculturalism is not really working out, is it? ”

    noo it ain’t.

    ”Let’s face it – not all cultures are created equal and not all should be accorded equal rights ”

    The Irish in Britain are one of the oldest and most established minorities there, they ought to be afforded the same opportunity to teach their children their native language, as those cultural minorities who are less well established have.

    ”I point to to the pending mayhem soon to be created when Shar’ia becomes forced down the throat of certain neighborhood legal establishments. Some cultures are better than others.”

    Good girl Patty, and nice try. Thats not what we are discussing. I like debating you, you’ve a good head on your shoulders I’ll give you that.

  12. I’ll take the side of the Irish language proponents when I start seeing the evidence that Irish people in Ireland give a hoot about it. I see no real use of the language in the major cities, or in the country either, outside of tiny enclaves in the west.

    It was important but it has been crushed over time, first by very deliberate English action, but over the past 75 years or so, by the predominance of English in commercial and cultural life, a change that has only accelerated with the satellite television and the internet.

    The average Irish teenager or adult thinks that he is too busy to take the effort to learn this language or wouldn’t care to learn the language if you gave them an additional 23 hours a day for their use.

    I’d love to think that there was a track for the language to be saved, but its now alive in the way that Latin is alive. Its alive in the pages of books.

    The Israelis, so hated and despised among the lefty political class in Ireland, brought their language back in a generation through the power of will and much effort. I don’t see any of that in Dublin or Cork or Belfast.

    More power to these intelligent and well meaning kids in England, but at least the kids who learn Urdu there will have someone back in Asia that they can speak to. Someone who learns Irish in England will have a hell of a time using their skills on Grafston, I tell you that.

  13. Andrew, Irish is a very old, and in many ways unique language. It also has a long tradition of literature to back it up. Unlike that garbage you lot speak over in Yorkshire!

    >>The Israelis, ..brought their language back in a generation through the power of will<<

    Don’t know what relevant point you wish to make here, Phantom.

    But in any case, the situations are not comparable. Israel was the new homeland to millions of people from all over Europe and the ME. They obviously needed a single language as otherwise the majority would have continued speaking a dialect of German!

    By the way, what language did the few Jews speak who remained in the area all those centuries, does anyone know?

  14. ABC –

    Agreed the English need to build up their own identity but why should that stop or interfere with the rest of us?

    What are you talking about?

    We English can trace our country to the 6th Century Heptarchy. Our land is the origin of the worlds greatest language, the Church of England and the common law. It was the first country to be industrialised. Ours was the world’s first parliamentary democracy. It’s the home of Alfred the Great, Hereward the Wake, Edward I, Shakespeare, Newton and Churchill.

    Our Anglo Saxon identity is fine thank you very much you ill-educated, ignorant liberal.

  15. The point I make is that a dead language can be brought to life.

    But in Ireland, Irish has not been brought back to any real life. If the Irish people cared, that would not have been the case…you’d hear it spoken on the streets of Dublin. But you do not.

    I know that the issue is used to beat the Brits with up north, and to get more taxpayer dough in the south, and still nearly no one speaks it.

    Its a shame, but I see a lot of good will and nearly zero effort to use the language or to learn it.

    Even my friend at Balrog, who supports the revival of the language–does he ever do a complete post in that language? Is there ever a thread of conversation in that language? No. Not for lack of good intention, but rather because I suspect that he does not speak it at any functional level,nor do the other commentators there. They all could have learned the thing, but they chose to do other things instead. Its the way of the world…languages are born, and at some point languages die. Irish is in the hospice now, with a very faint heartbeat.

    The language would better be served if a thousand people in Ireland made an iron commitment to learn it in six months, than if language programs received a hundred billion euro in subsidies. There’s a lot of well meaning make believe on this issue I hate to say.

  16. ”Our Anglo Saxon identity is fine thank you very much you ill-educated, ignorant liberal.”

    Yeah Yeah Pete, so why is it then that the Scots the Welsh and the Irish (the celts) Have an identity in todays Britain, but the English??? Do tell us, what is it to be English in todays Britain. Bald headed football hooligan? You never know, you may even have an argument other thanrying to sling insults…Now for you that may be a first. Or is that an English characteristic???

  17. De Valera on this matter:

    When in 1958, on the occasion of Israel’s tenth anniversary, the first president of the independent Irish republic, Eamon de Valera, came to Israel, he told his host David Ben-Gurion, “I am astounded by the rapid development of your country, by its sophisticated agriculture and its industry in full swing, but, in my eyes, your most extraordinary achievement is your success in reviving a language that had been dead for 2,000 years — Hebrew.” “In 1921,” he added bitterly, “when Ireland achieved independence, the people in scores of Irish villages continued to speak Gaelic, our native Celtic language. However, in spite of a brief surge of literary output in Gaelic, we have failed to revive and reinstate our language in our country. Today, 35 years after we achieved independence, English has permanently supplanted our language, even if the official name of our country is Gaelic — Eire.”


    Anyone who loves Irish, had best learn what the "Zionist entity" did to save their language. The circumstances are not the same by any means, but success always provides examples to learn from, and there was never a greater success in reviving a language.

  18. abc

    The culture that created Shakepeare, Churchill, and my beloved Beatles, the culture at the root of the North American/Australia/NZ nations, does not need to take a backseat to anyone.

    The fact that there is not a political "English nation" culture does not concern me. We don’t need to build ourselves up by sniping at them. England is OK,

  19. Phantom

    >>The circumstances are not the same by any means,<<

    They could hardly be more different. The Israelis at the time had no language and desprately needed one. The Irish, on the other hand, already had a common language – English – and what’s more one that was already the major global language, and that linguistically suited itself very well to a changing world.
    Why, English is now even making major roads into Dutch and German and other languages. In view of the cultural and economic situation over the past 100 years, there was never any chance for Irish to be revived without major coercion. Because bilingualism was never an option – it was either going to be Irish or English. You see, even if a bilingual nation had been achieved, it would soon have switched back to monolingualism again in the face of the unstoppable tide of influence coming from the UK and the US.

  20. ”The fact that there is not a political "English nation" culture does not concern me. We don’t need to build ourselves up by sniping at them. England is OK,”

    Whose ‘we’? Phantom? Whose sniping at the English. Facts are facts, Englishness is what exactly? Is it like the poster used by London underground for tourism? The picture of a bald headed English man with the george cross painted on his back?

    The English identity is in crisis. What Pete said, (including his insulting remarks) doesn’t make that any different.

  21. Let’s see…what benefits a young person more?

    A sound grasp of English?

    Or knowledge of a beautiful, ancient language dropped from general use by the tides of time, brought back to favor by some Romantics who find self-worth through identity politics?

    I can see the point of someone creating an institute for the study, and teaching of the language — but I can’t see the point of bilingual education on a national scale, with Gaelic as one of the languages.

  22. Patty I refer you to my 3.27 pm post in which I said.

    ”The English that is dominant now in Britain is far from proper English anyway. There is almost a sub language in it, its not mainstream. English has become Americanised and computerised, so much so that its almost foreign.”

    As I said crisis.

  23. Noel

    If the people had a hunger for it they could have brought it back. Especially during the Dev era, when there was little economic activity to disturb them from the language studies.

    But if the people don’t really want it…which is clear to me, anyway…and if there is no desire for compulsion–which I think you say–then lets just declare it functionally dead. Give the kids a class or two in the language that once was used in these lands, for cultural purposes, remove the requirement that government workers have knowledge of it, and take the money that is used for the Irish TV service and use it to subsidize heating bills or whatever.

    Even in an era of technology and worldwide English, I see no reason why it can’t be brought back IF the people loved it and treasured it. But they do not, and they should quit pretending that they do.

  24. ABC: Languages morph and change. English is no different. That there are American idioms, etc. introduced does not make a difference.

    To argue that it’s OK to ditch "English" as the dominant language because some use it poorly is ridiculous. English is the dominant world language today.

    Why fragment society into different groups?

    Did you know that France, under Louis xiv flourished when he UNITED the country with 1 language? Outlawing all others but official French? Louis XIV introducing the first dictionary – the Larousse Dictionary – centralized the transportation hub in Paris. French citizens grew around 2 inches during his reign.

    The left wishing to tear down the traditional English society want to introduce new/old languages to the national curriculum in order ot fragment and divide. Multiculturalism is the crisis.

  25. His numerous wars and extravagant palaces and châteaux effectively bankrupted the State

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_XIV_of_France

    Fourished? Can we kick out the Protestants?

    ”ABC: Languages morph and change. .”

    So do nation states and fact is fact, we don’t have Louis on the English throne, we have Elizabeth, and like it or not Britain is multi cultural.

  26. >>ABC: For starters, English culture is the English language!<<

    Well, for the one Englishman on here it doesn’t seem to be, but seems to go back to the 6th Century!

    Otherwise I agree with what you say about Irish.

    >>French citizens grew around 2 inches during his reign.<<

    Maybe, but where!

  27. Patty,

    "Why fragment society into different groups?"

    Indeed. Enough of this nation state nonsense. Let’s all be Irish! Slainte!

  28. Our Anglo Saxon identity is fine thank you very much you ill-educated, ignorant liberal.

    I think Pete protests just a bit too much! 🙂

  29. I’m inclined to agree with the Phantom. We should revive the language at home before plotting word domination.

  30. Yeah same there Henry, although I find some of the English (British?) reaction to it here pretty funny. Talk about wearing your insecurities on your sleeve!

  31. I’ve read the post and all of the good debate and I have a question for anyone or all.

    What is the problem with adding another foreign language to the curriculum choices for students who are selecting a foreign language as part of their studies? If enough students express interest at specific schools, where’s the harm in giving them this option too?

    Did I read this wrong? Are the students asking to learn and speak this language instead of English in all of their classes?

  32. I disagree with Andrew Mc that the whole basis of the Irish language (from first principles) is nothing more than a political tool – assuming that that is what Andrew meant of course.
    Of course Irish is, in itself, a real language, but the point is, it is no longer the main spoken language in the ROI; English is. You don’t need to know how to speak Irish in order to communicate in Dublin or any other ROI town (though perhaps in a few small villages it might still be the main tongue?) Therefore it has little relevance as a subject on the UK curriculum, same as Cornish for example.
    I’ve no objection to private schools or colleges charging fees to those who want to learn it, but there’s no real call for it to be on the national curriculum.

  33. On the other hand, Farsi, Saudi, Moroccan, Algerian, Romanian, Albanian, Lithuanian, Polish, etc etc…these ARE all languages which it shall soon become necessary for everyone to know how to speak in the UK, at this rate…..

  34. Fair comment, Tom. I know a lot of Irish speakers and none of them are particularly political. People don’t speak it out of necessity but because it’s a nice language and they want to keep it alive. Simple as that. As a fan of languages in general, I think it’s a positive thing.

    but there’s no real call for it to be on the national curriculum

    No, of course not.

  35. Firstly, I’m not certain that the comment by ‘Andrew McCann’ is genuine. His view about the Irish are well known but even he has a bit more nous than to spout that rubbish.

    Irish is clearly a real language moulded through centuroes of experience, but it has no relevence to modern dy living in the UK even to to the Irish community here.I don’t believe that poll for one minute. The Irish language will flourish culturally if people choose to embrace it and learn it as a hobby, it certainly needs no place as a compulsory part of any educational curriculum.

  36. …but even he has a bit more nous than to spout that rubbish

    You think so?

    it certainly needs no place as a compulsory part of any educational curriculum

    Colm,

    We all know when the best time to learn a language is. If we took it off the curriculum here in Ireland it would be dead before we could say ‘cad a tharla?’

    In my view, that would be sad. Teaching it in primary schools at least gives children a start in the language. Afterwards, they can pursue it or not.

  37. Yeah I agree, Colm. I made that point at 10:43PM! 🙂

    When you said:

    ‘no place as a compulsory part of any educational curriculum’

    I thought you meant in Ireland too.

  38. ABC,

    "You never know, you may even have an argument other than trying to sling insults…Now for you that may be a first. Or is that an English characteristic?"

    Please don’t tar all Englishmen with the same brush. Pete Moore does not represent me. His is not a peculiarly English characteristic. Every nation has it boors.

    I can’t speak it at all but Irish is a beautiful, melodious language. It would be criminal to allow it to die. If you happen to tune into TG4 you’ll see it spoken fluently and gorgeously by several hotties. They’d almost persuade a chap to learn Irish if only to be able to converse with them.

  39. “I suspect that he does not speak it at any functional level, nor do the other commentators there”

    Don’t know how much of a minority I am over at Chris’s place Phantom but, as an occasional contributor, I can and do.

    Regarding your comments on how widely the language is used in Ireland I’ll refer to my comments on August 16th [in my personal experience].

    “Well Kloot I can only speak for myself and I use Irish on a daily basis with my children. It’s the only language that I use with around seven of my friends. In my area of West Belfast I can think of nine Bunscoileanna now, if you take as a, [conservative], estimate that each of those classes from P1 to P7 have fifteen children then that makes 1,890. If that figure is then added to the figure of more than 600 pupils in Coláiste Feirste, [Belfasts only Irish language secondary school], then that makes a conservative estimate of 2,500 people that I know of use Irish on a daily basis in West Belfast alone”.

    http://atangledweb.squarespace.com/httpatangledwebsquarespace/no-irish-language-act.html?currentPage=2#comments

    Let’s make one thing clear: English is the dominant international language, one of the theories attributed to this is the dominance of the United States economy internationally and the fact that the chair of international financial institutions such as The World Bank, the IMF and the WTO have historically been native English speakers.

    I personally believe that the English language is a beautifully rich language and am quite happy to speak it fluently but rest assured on one thing; it’s not my mother tongue in terms that it wasn’t the language of my near ancestors.

    Another point raised is that the English language is the common language of the US, Australia, NZ etc. This is true but has anyone ever thought how this language was imported to such countries along with South Africa, India etc?, it wasn’t as if everyone went to bed one night and awoke the next morning peacefully agreeing to speak English. I repeat that I have no problem with English however people need to remember that the catalyst for English being so widely spoken was massive bloodshed.

    “Let’s see…what benefits a young person more?
    A sound grasp of English?
    Or knowledge of a beautiful, ancient language dropped from general use by the tides of time, brought back to favor by some Romantics who find self-worth through identity politics”?

    In todays modern world Patty it’s undoubtedly a sound grasp of English however the difference is that the pupils are advocating learning the Irish language in tandem with English. Presumably the students are also going to be exposed to the English language on a daily basis, how will that detract from their sound grasp of English?

    In political terms I’m constantly amazed that the very mention of the Irish language can raise the heckles of Unionists when, [in the context of NI], surely they would want the indigenous language to be taught as it is in other constituent parts of the union i.e. Scotland and Wales?

  40. PS

    You this article may be of interest. I suppose it generally reinforces the idea that the lauguage is dead or dying in Ireland however, attention should be paid to what the writer says about younger Irish people and about the North.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,,1983434,00.html

  41. Paul

    Some good and thoughtful comments there.

    Re McCann

    He’s openly said that he dislikes nearly everything about Ireland. There would be little he might say that would ever surprise me.

  42. Paul,

    Well said. I don’t speak it myself and I don’t pretend to. I’m absolutely useless at it and although I take 99.9% of the blame for that I do think there is a serious problem with how it’s taught. For example, I had Irish lessons every school day for thirteen years, I had lessons in French for just five (and a couple of years of it in uni). Now I can converse easily in French and not at all in Irish. That’s crazy!

    Irish isn’t dead though. I have a young niece who speaks it fluently and there is now at least one gaelscoil in every county. That is a lot of Irish speakers and it doesn’t include families like your own who speak it at home. There is a particular problem with the development of the language with it being spoken less in gaeltacht areas but it is a million miles from death, thankfully.

  43. He’s openly said that he dislikes nearly everything about Ireland. There would be little he might say that would ever surprise me

    Agreed, Phantom. Sad old man, not worth bothering about.

  44. I am 100% English but am an incurable lover of Ireland and ALL its peoples. The Irish language is indigenous to these British islands and is older than our own lingua franca and it is a good probability that many of our forbears spoke it. This melodious tongue must survive as it contains a richness and subtlety in its descriptive power that English lacks. I have attended the Oideas Gael language school in Glencolumbcille, Co Donegal to learn its basics and I heartily recommend anyone interested in its glories to attend one of the very reasonable courses held there while spending a time in some of the most spellbinding scenery with the most friendly and hospitable people in the world.

    http://www.oideas-gael.com/Leathanacha/oideas_gael.html

    Once you start learning Irish the whole of the countryside becomes alive because all the place names qua Irish names are readily translated into meaningful descriptions of the place itself.

  45. I agree with Andrew that the Irish language is used to advance an anti-British agenda. The Irish government uses Irish only when it suits them and IRA/Sinn Fein are the same.

    The Irish government never promotes it’s country using ‘EIRE’ anymore, because that would send the wrong message to the outside world, that there are two seperate countries on the island ‘Eire’ and N.Ireland. That’s why they use the English word Ireland, makes their island takeover seem much more credible and helps in obscuring the border.

    IRA/Sinn Fein’s love for the Irish language doesn’t even make it on one of their most iconic murals, "You are now entering a Free Derry" Imagine that, English being used for an Irish republican mural. How can we take these people serious when they can’t even be bothered using the Irish name when promoting their country or publicising their murals.

    Hood winkers, the whole lot of them!

  46. "The Irish government never promotes it’s country using ‘EIRE’ anymore, because that would send the wrong message to the outside world, that there are two seperate countries on the island ‘Eire’ and N.Ireland."

    It says "Eire" on my passport (and I’m from Co. Down). What’s that all about? It must be a Vatican inspired plot.

  47. Ulster-Scot,

    "I agree with Andrew that the Irish language is used to advance an anti-British agenda. The Irish government uses Irish only when it suits them and IRA/Sinn Fein are the same."

    The French by tradition have used French to advance an anti-English agenda. The Poles have used Polish against the Russians. I don’t know what you’re on about.

    And if "IRA/Sinn Fein" hijack the language for political ends you surely can’t blame the language, can you?

    Regarding that sign, "You are now entering a Free Derry", when it was painted, the eyes of the world were upon the city. If Irish not English had been the dominant world language at the time, it would undoubtedly have been used instead.

    I believe it’s called "common sense".

  48. "IRA/Sinn Fein’s love for the Irish language doesn’t even make it on one of their most iconic murals, "You are now entering a Free Derry" Imagine that, English being used for an Irish republican mural. How can we take these people serious when they can’t even be bothered using the Irish name when promoting their country or publicising their murals"

    Well as far as I know US the original mural was written circa 1971, before the Republican Sinn Fén – Republican Clubs split so I’m not sure just how much of an "IRA/Sinn Fein" mural it is.

    In terms of linguistic proficiency, whoops, you either need to do a more thorough homework on the mural itself on brush up on your English grammar.

    The mural is entitled

    “You Are Now Entering Free Derry”

    The mural uses the definite subject “ Free Derry” as opposed to the indefinite pronoun “A Free Derry”

    Sorry for the pedantry but people lecturing others on the use of a language, which they don’t understand themselves, should really try to either get their facts right on the subject of which they speak so authoritatively or either use the correct syntax of the language which they claim to speak fluently.

    What was that about taking people seriously?

  49. And do pay attention, 007, he actually wrote "serious" not "seriously". Maybe he’s a Basque.

  50. Mea Culpa Dawks

    When I speak English I like to try to speak it as properly as possible hence my usage of the adverb seriously as opposed to US’s “serious” and the absence of previous quotation marks when stating my sub text :

    “What was that about taking people seriously?”

    Hope that this clears it up.

    : 0)

  51. BTW Dawks,

    "Maybe he’s a Basque"

    Should have an interrogative question mark, [?], after the qualitive phrase.

    ;0)

  52. It says "Eire" on my passport (and I’m from Co. Down). What’s that all about? It must be a Vatican inspired plot.

    Reg, now you’re just being silly

  53. Regarding that sign, "You are now entering a Free Derry", when it was painted, the eyes of the world were upon the city. If Irish not English had been the dominant world language at the time, it would undoubtedly have been used instead.

    I believe it’s called "common sense".

    No Dawkins, it’s called hypocrisy. Surely the Irish speakers of Ireland would have been greatly offended by not having the ‘Free Derry’ sign in Irish?….didn’t hear too many crys for Irish equality there then

    pack of hood winkers, the whole lot of them.

  54. Sorry for the pedantry but people lecturing others on the use of a language, which they don’t understand themselves, should really try to either get their facts right on the subject of which they speak so authoritatively or either use the correct syntax of the language which they claim to speak fluently.

    What was that about taking people seriously?

    Paul McMahon, so that would include all of the IRA/Sinn Fein Irish speakers in Stormont then? lol

  55. Dawkins "And do pay attention, 007, he actually wrote "serious" not "seriously". Maybe he’s a Basque."

    Paul McMahon "When I speak English I like to try to speak it as properly as possible hence my usage of the adverb seriously as opposed to US’s “serious” and the absence of previous quotation marks when stating my sub text :

    Dawkins "Wot, you saying US English ain’t proppa? :0)"

    Glad to see you all enjoying the wonders of our beloved English language, it’s much more superior to the Irish language, which is correctly called Scots Gaelic. The Irish was added to mark out a territory, which must have been a latent behaviour passed down from the neanderthal Gauls. Orish legend has it that they urinated over the first stone they laid claim to, a trait learned from the roaming beasts of Africa, the land from whence they came.

  56. the thick-mick Oirish neanderthal race from Africa, never knew that. Thanks for enlightening me Ulster-scot!

  57. US, as I said on Sunday at 11.56pm;

    “I personally believe that the English language is a beautifully rich language and am quite happy to speak it fluently but rest assured on one thing; it’s not my mother tongue in terms that it wasn’t the language of my near ancestors”.

    So your;

    “Glad to see you all enjoying the wonders of our beloved English language”

    Unfortunately doesn’t really fizzle me. I’m very proud of being multi-lingual.

    Regarding the Irish language:

    “ It’s much more superior to the Irish language, which is correctly called Scots Gaelic. The Irish was added to mark out a territory, which must have been a latent behaviour passed down from the neanderthal Gauls .[sic]

    Ignorance is indeed bliss US. Why don’t you check out the linguistic origins of the language which is supposedly identified to the culture you adhere to?

    “By the 9th Century the Irish language had spread over much of Scotland, parts of Northern Britain and the Isle of Man”

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/voices/multilingual/irish_history.shtml

    “One of two groups of the modern Celtic languages; the group includes Irish, Manx, and Scottish Gaelic. The Goidelic languages originated in Ireland and are distinguished from the other group of Insular Celtic tongues…”

    http://www.britannica.com/eb/topic-237173/Goidelic-languages

    If I’ve taught you a modicum of English language grammar or lit an inspirational spark which may bring you to search for the true roots of your supposed cultural identity then my work here is done.

    Now go to sleep you silly person or I shall taunt you a second time.

    [Copyright: Monty Python, The Meaning of Life].

  58. Dawkins: "lol@COLM"

    Colm: "lol@DAWKINS"

    Dawkins: "you’re so funny, spank me"

    Colm: "No, you spank me you naughy boy"

  59. “What is the problem with adding another foreign language to the curriculum choices for students who are selecting a foreign language as part of their studies”?

    100% Daphne

    “I do think there is a serious problem with how it’s taught”

    Agreed 100% also JG.

    Its incumbent upon us who know and love the language to use, speak, teach, promote and spread the language as widely as possible

    “I have attended the Oideas Gael language school in Glencolumbcille, Co Donegal to learn its basics and I heartily recommend anyone interested in its glories to attend one of the very reasonable courses held there while spending a time in some of the most spellbinding scenery with the most friendly and hospitable people in the world”

    Maith thú HP. Silim as féar maith thú

  60. Ulster-Scot “ It’s much more superior to the Irish language, which is correctly called Scots Gaelic. The Irish was added to mark out a territory, which must have been a latent behaviour passed down from the neanderthal Gauls ."

    Paul McMahon Ignorance is indeed bliss US. Why don’t you check out the linguistic origins of the language which is supposedly identified to the culture you adhere to?

    there’s a vast difference Paul McMahon as English is offered to all nations and people throughout the world, without having to align yourself to a territory or certain culture. The same can’t be said of the ‘Irish’ language.

  61. Paul McMahon“By the 9th Century the Irish language had spread over much of Scotland, parts of Northern Britain and the Isle of Man”

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/voices/multilingual/irish_history.shtml

    So what? That doesn’t defy the argument that Scots Gaelic is the same as the Irish language

    Paul McMahon“One of two groups of the modern Celtic languages; the group includes Irish, Manx, and Scottish Gaelic. The Goidelic languages originated in Ireland and are distinguished from the other group of Insular Celtic tongues…”

    http://www.britannica.com/eb/topic-237173/Goidelic-languages

    and?….these gaelic languages are from the same source, Scots Gaelic. The oldest records of all the identities you have used are found in St. Pats confession which uses Scots Gaelic and identifies the people in Ireland as the Scots. Thus the lable Scot-Gaelic…. But NO, such an historic piece of writing isn’t good enough for you as it doesn’t prove your point as well as those other manuscripts wrote centuries later.

    If you’re going to be true to a language at least give it some room to speak

    Paul McMahon If I’ve taught you a modicum of English language grammar or lit an inspirational spark which may bring you to search for the true roots of your supposed cultural identity then my work here is done.

    Now go to sleep you silly person or I shall taunt you a second time.

    Do not try to patronise me McMahon. You obviously are more interested in researching Irish history instead of looking hard into actual history. Can’t expect anything else from an Irishman.

  62. …and just to follow, when was the first time the people of the island started to use the identity Irish? was it before the Pope gave the island to the english King or after it?

  63. Then why don’t you call yourself English as opposed to ‘Ulster Scot’ and all the supposed cultural heritage that it implies?

    Ah well, I think that I’ve taunted you a second time as my previous threat implied.

    Hey wait, I’ll go for a third time, just for the craic.

    “So what? That doesn’t defy the argument that Scots Gaelic is the same as the Irish language"

    You obviously read English as well as you speak it.

    Tell me, which part of:

    “The Goidelic languages originated in Ireland and are distinguished from the other group of Insular Celtic tongues”

    Do you not understand?

    And

    “One of two groups of the modern Celtic languages; the group includes Irish, Manx, and Scottish Gaelic. The Goidelic languages originated in Ireland and are distinguished from the other group of Insular Celtic tongues…”

    Can you not see the inherent anomaly?

    As to your other ramblings regarding the supposed origins of Scots Gaelic I’ll wait until I see your credible evidence before I formulate my opinion on your attempted revision of linguistic history

    I’m off to bed. Hope my sleep isn’t ruined by you howling at the moon.

    Oiche Máith

  64. "Can you not see the inherent anomaly?"

    Please tell us Paul McMahon! It would seem you’ve resorted to recolect your ideas.

  65. “The Goidelic languages originated in Ireland and are distinguished from the other group of Insular Celtic tongues”

    Do you not understand?

    are you telling me Paul McMahon, or are you asking me?

  66. So what? That doesn’t defy the argument that Scots Gaelic is the same as the Irish language"

    You obviously read English as well as you speak it.

    meaning?

  67. Ulster-Scot,

    You seem to have a certain anger in you. Why is it directed at the Irish language? Did an Irish-speaking lass ridicule you or what? Perhaps you should tell us about it. Who knows, we may be able to help….

  68. Okay US I’ll simplify this so you’re able to understand it.

    “Paul McMahon” By the 9th Century the Irish language had spread over much of Scotland, parts of Northern Britain and the Isle of Man”
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/voices/multilingual/irish_history.shtml
    So what? That doesn’t defy the argument that Scots Gaelic is the same as the Irish language”

    Except you didn’t say that Scots Gallic was the same as the Irish language, you said:
    “It’s much more superior to the Irish language, which is correctly called Scots Gaelic”

    My post proved that the Irish language came before and that Scots Gallic is a derivative of the Irish language. Clear enough for you?

    “Paul McMahon Ignorance is indeed bliss US. Why don’t you check out the linguistic origins of the language which is supposedly identified to the culture you adhere to?
    There’s a vast difference Paul McMahon as English is offered to all nations and people throughout the world, without having to align your self to a territory or certain culture. The same can’t be said of the ‘Irish’ language.”

    I was talking about your cultural identity you fool.

    Tell me US, what defines you as an “Ulster Scot” where you’re born? the language you speak, or is it a racial thing in a lost tribe of Israel kinda way?. An “Ulster Scot” extolling the virtues of the English language? Seems to me more like cultural identity crisis than cultural identity however I can’t say that I’m surprised as you’ve more likely heard of the concept “Ulster Scot” down at the local illegal loyalist drinking club.

    http://www.britannica.com/eb/topic-237173/Goidelic-languages
    And?….these Gaelic languages are from the same source, Scots Gaelic.

    Wow, how stupid am I? Imagine me taking the word of an internationally respected journal like Encyclopedia Britannica over some inane, vague babblings about some Saints confession Perhaps you didn’t read “The Goidelic languages originated in Ireland” part?

    Perhaps in Ulsterscotsparalleluniverseville you dismiss it however us that live in the real world call it factual corroboration

    "Can you not see the inherent anomaly?
    Please tell us Paul McMahon! It would seem you’ve resorted to recolect, [sic], your ideas”.

    See all my points above.

    ““The Goidelic languages originated in Ireland and are distinguished from the other group of Insular Celtic tongues” Do you not understand?
    Are you telling me Paul McMahon, or are you asking me”?

    It actually read:

    “Tell me, which part of:
    The Goidelic languages originated in Ireland and are distinguished from the other group of Insular Celtic tongues”
    Do you not understand”?

    Now, I would have presumed that a sentence beginning “Tell me” and finishing with an interrogative question mark would have given you a clue to the sentences functionality. I would also imagine that if I’d asked an eleven old the same thing I would have gotten an answer.
    Perhaps this is more a reflection on you than on the eleven year old?

    [And just to save any further confusion, yes, I’m asking you]

    US are you familiar with the expression “when your in a hole stop digging”?, well, that’s what I would advise you to do. Please save yourself the embarrassment of replying to this post as you trolling buffoonery is beginning to get tiring and I may not be as patient or charitable in future.

  69. Total nonsense Paul McMahon. I’m not worried about what the Encyclopedia Britannica states concerning the ‘Irish’ language, it has adopted the ‘Irish’ historians perspective which doesn’t come as a surprise in modern Britain.

    You still haven’t answered why St.Patricks confession identifies the people on the island as Scots, it doesnt mention them as Irish because the ‘Irish’ nationality and language hadn’t been invented then. They spoke Scots Gaelic, not ‘Irish’. It would seem oul St. Pat will be the saint responsible for unearthing the greatest of all the ‘Irish’ myths, that being the Irish nation.

    So, I would ask you to think like a scholar instead of basing your ideas of history on second hand evidence and especially the writings of ‘Irish’ historians or liberal British ones.

  70. Ulster-Scot,

    Are you sure you’re not a Basque? You’re terribly amusing anyway.

    I loved your comment on the Encyclopaedia Britannica. I happen to know a couple of eminent scholars who contribute to it and they’ll have a well-bred chuckle when I mention your theory to them.

    We’ll also have a giggle about your comment on St. Patrick. Did you know that the Romans in his day knew so little about the island of Ireland that they dubbed it Hibernia? I’m sure your Latin is rusty so I’ll help you out. It means "The Land of Winter". The poor ignorant sods imagined that the Emerald Isle suffered a permanent winter.

    How’s that for an Irish myth? :0)

  71. Yes Paul, you idiot.

    Basing your knowledge of the history of the Irish language on the studies of Irish and British historians, linguistics scholars and the Encyclopaedia Brittanica is ridiculous.

    Clearly the inane ramblings of a monoglot bigot who learnt his history down the local UDA cultural centre have much greater merit.

    The fact that he can’t produce any evidence to support his outlandish claims merely shows how deeply the Vatican conspiracy against the lost tribe of Israel actually goes.

  72. Reg,

    "[H]ow deeply the Vatican conspiracy against the lost tribe of Israel actually goes."

    Hear hear. As every skoolboy nose, the Lost Tribe went to America and became Mormons.

  73. “I’m not worried about what the Encyclopaedia Britannica states concerning the ‘Irish’ language"

    "So, I would ask you to think like a scholar instead of basing your ideas of history on second hand evidence"

    Is it just me that sees the irony of these two comments?

    "You still haven’t answered why St.Patricks confession identifies the people on the island as Scots"

    That’s because you haven’t actually asked a question. You asserted:

    “These Gaelic languages are from the same source, Scots Gaelic. The oldest records of all the identities you have used are found in St. Pat’s confession which uses Scots Gaelic and identifies the people in Ireland as the Scots. Thus the liable Scot-Gaelic…. But NO, such an historic piece of writing isn’t good enough for you as it doesn’t prove your point as well as those other manuscripts wrote centuries later”

    Now in order to receive an answer you need to do two things;

    1 You need to actually formulate a question to get a required answer

    2 If you want a discussion surrounding this alleged confession then you need to post credible links supporting your assumption. You should have no problem locating this verification based on “ those other manuscripts wrote, [sic],centuries later”

    Stick around US, your hilarity value couldn’t be bought and the only thing which probably matches the number of people laughing at your peculiar take on history is the number of educated Unionists cringing with embarrassment at your inane ramblings.

  74. Paul,

    The Basques are the only peeps rarely insulted on ATW—except for ETA of course. I thought I’d give them equal treatment.

    Plus they’re the only nation in the world named for a sexy article of clothing :0)

  75. Your ignorance is touching. Irish is far from an ‘alleged’ language. It existed before English was even thought about and is still very much alive.

Comments are closed.