143 1 min 3 yrs

The media is exultant. Ireland has voted Yes. Yes to “relaxing the abortion laws”.

At last! After those damn Yanks voting for Trump and the damn Brits voting for Brexit, the Irish sheeple conform to requirement and do as the establishment tells them.

Good news for the 70% who voted YES.

Not such good news for babies in the womb.

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143 thoughts on “IRELAND SAYS YES….

  1. Are they absolutely sure, they knew what they were voting for?.

    Maybe they should hold another vote to be sure….to be sure.

    😏

  2. //Are NI included in all this?.//

    Actually, many in NI are now calling for a similar referedum, as NI is now the only place of the British Isles with restrictive abortion laws.

    The issue is too complicated for cheap polemics like in this post. Calling foetuses up to 12 weeks “babies” is like calling a one-year-old boy a man.
    On the other hand, looser legislation does raise the prospect of deselection of unwanted types of children at the embryo stage and does go against a lot of the better human instincts.

  3. It is a big stretch to connect this vote with the ( much less than 70 percent ) Vote for the screwball in chief

  4. Actually, many in NI are now calling for a similar referedum, as NI is now the only place of the British Isles with restrictive abortion laws.

    Yes Noel, and the only part where gay marriage is also verboten.

    In the permanent absence of Stormont, the Tory government should legislate for Northern Ireland on both issues, and tell the DUP to get stuffed. Oh wait…

  5. Yes Noel, and the only part where gay marriage is also verboten.

    Really?.

    I never knew that, it’s the 21st century, not the dark-ages.

  6. The Tory government should legislate for Northern Ireland on both issues, and tell the DUP to get stuffed. Oh wait…

    Well played Peter.

  7. The issue is too complicated for cheap polemics like in this post. Calling foetuses up to 12 weeks “babies” is like calling a one-year-old boy a man.

    So Noel when do you consider it to be a baby?

  8. If this prevents a repetition of the horrific and heartbreaking story of Savita Halappanavar, (wait for it….), then that in itself will be justification for repeal.

  9. From Brendan O’Neill:

    “I am pro-choice. I think sovereignty over oneself, over one’s own body and mind, as the great Brit John Stuart Mill put it, is an essential enlightenment ideal, perhaps the essential enlightenment ideal. It fills me with Irish pride that the Irish have voted in staggering numbers for the right of women to end unwanted pregnancies — estimates say that 68 or 69 percent of voters said Yes to repealing the Eighth Amendment to the Irish Constitution that forbade all terminations except when the pregnancy directly threatened the life of the woman. I’m as proud as I was when the Irish voted against the Lisbon Treaty, and by extension the entire bureaucratic machine in Brussels, in a referendum in 2008.

    And there’s the thing: consider how that referendum revolt against Brussels 10 years ago was talked about in comparison with how Friday’s referendum revolt against the Eighth Amendment is being talked about. When they rejected Lisbon, Irish voters were mocked and mauled by both their own political elites and EU technocrats. They were branded ungrateful, thick, probably a bit xenophobic. And they were of course made to vote again — the dreaded Second Referendum that the part-time defenders of democracy always demand when things don’t go their way. See Brexit.

    Speaking of Brexit: the difference between the UK liberal media’s treatment of the massive vote for abortion rights in Ireland and the massive vote for Brexit in Britain (17.4m votes, the most for anything in British history, as if you needed reminding) is staggering, if also depressingly unsurprising. In their flighty view, Brexit was the work of plebs brainwashed by a bus, while the the repeal of the Eighth was the work of an enlightened people. Brexit is scary and dangerous and therefore we should call it off; the repeal of the Eighth is brilliant and wonderful and therefore we should see it through. Brexit confirmed democracy is a terrible idea; the repeal of the Eighth shows it is a great idea. And on it goes, hypocrisy upon hypocrisy, anti-democratic wailing one minute, pro-democracy weeping the next. They support democracy, not in principle, but only if it gives them what they want.”

    https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/05/irelands-referendum-shows-that-some-people-only-like-democracy-when-it-gives-them-what-they-want/

  10. They support democracy, not in principle, but only if it gives them what they want.”

    And tbat, in a nutshell, describes the gammons at the palace of Brussels, to absolute perfection.

  11. As is often the case, Brendan O’Neill cuts to to the heart of it with clarity.

    But those thick Paddies still didn’t know what they were voting for.

  12. And they were of course made to vote again — the dreaded Second Referendum that the part-time defenders of democracy always demand when things don’t go their way. See Brexit.

    What a pile of revisionist shite. Brendan O’Neill must have forgotten that Lisbon 2 was only ratified after Brian Cowan renegotiated the treaty and got legally binding agreements that

    the necessary legal guarantees would be given that nothing in the Treaty of Lisbon made any change of any kind to the Union’s competences on taxation for any member state;

    the necessary legal guarantees would be given that the Treaty of Lisbon did not prejudice the security and defence policy of any member state, including Ireland’s traditional policy of neutrality;

    the necessary legal guarantees would be given that neither the Treaty of Lisbon (including the Justice and Home Affairs provisions), nor the EU Charter of Fundamental Rights, affected the provisions of the Irish Constitution in relation to the right to life, education and the family in any way;

    in accordance with the necessary legal procedures, a Decision would be taken to retain Ireland’s Commissioner, provided that the Treaty of Lisbon was ratified;

    the high importance attached to issues including workers’ rights would be confirmed

    http://www.consilium.europa.eu/ueDocs/cms_Data/docs/pressData/en/ec/104692.pdf

    The difference of course between the Irish abortion referendum and Brexit was that Ireland voted overwhelmingly to repeal article 8 of Bunreacht na hÉireann while you could barely get a cigarette paper between the tallies in Brexit.

    It fills me with Irish pride that the Irish have voted in staggering numbers for the right of women to end unwanted pregnancies

    Irish pride in a Pete Moore kinda way maybe.

  13. “If this prevents a repetition of the horrific and heartbreaking story of Savita Halappanavar, (wait for it….), then that in itself will be justification for repeal.”

    Savita Halappanavar died because of the cowardice if a Consultant Obstetrician, not because of Section 8.

    “But those thick Paddies still didn’t know what hey were voting for”

    Fuck you Pete.

  14. Savita Halappanavar died because of the cowardice if a Consultant Obstetrician, not because of Section 8

    Can you expand on that Matt?

  15. //“If this prevents a repetition of the horrific and heartbreaking story of Savita Halappanavar, (//

    It won’t make any difference because repetition of that kind of case was already prevented by the Protection of Life During Pregnancy Act in 2013, which was made law because of that tragedy.

    Citing the Savita Halappanavar case as an argument in the YES campaign was a cheap and unfair trick. It was irrelevant for the referendum issue.

  16. Protection of Life During Pregnancy Act 2013

    Yes Noel, I’m aware of the Act which wasn’t in existence at the time of Savita Halappanavar’s death and make the above comment in that context.

    I don’t think that the case was irrelevant to the referendum issue in terms that if Article 8 hadn’t been so stringently binding it’s very likely that Savita Halappanavar wouldn’t have died.

  17. Paul,

    Under the existing Section 8 in 2012 Abortion in Ireland was permitted where there is a real and substantial threat to the life of the mother. The female Obstetrician hadn’t the balls (pardon the expression) to do the right thing, and was “exonerated” by the Irish Medical Council who again hadn’t the balls to do what was right. All they had to do was hold their hands up and admit their negligence.

  18. The difference of course between the Irish abortion referendum and Brexit was that Ireland voted overwhelmingly to repeal article 8 of Bunreacht na hÉireann while you could barely get a cigarette paper between the tallies in Brexit.

    Fair point Paul. 66:33 beats 52:48 decisively. O’Neill would have done better to acknowledge that Brexit was a close vote, but all we ever hear about is the 17.4 million who supported it and nothing about the 16.1 million million who opposed it. And as you know I speak as a Brexit supporter.

    I am always suspicious of people who quote a number without referring to its percentage. They are being economical with the truth, and always by design.

  19. I’m having a look at the HSE report into the death here Matt and that’s a fair comment:

    2. Failure to offer all management options to Ms. Halappanavar who was experiencing inevitable miscarriage of an early second trimester pregnancy where the risk to her was increasing with time from the time that her membranes had ruptured.

    https://www.hse.ie/eng/services/news/media/pressrel/newsarchive/2013archive/jun13/savitareport.html

    It seems that the midwife’s professionalism was seriously in question:

    http://www.thejournal.ie/eighth-amendment-4-3977441-Apr2018/

  20. I voted no. Clearly my hankering for the days of Archbishop McQuaid were not shared by the rest of the electorate.

    From talking to “yes” voters the general sentiment for repeal was to allow for cases of FFA cases, rape etc. I would question that there is actual support for the abortion regime that will be legislated for.

  21. It’s taken a while but those who want another step towards the termination of Europeans usually get their way.

    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/billionaire-soros-funding-groups-fighting-to-repeal-irish-abortion-ban-34980624.html

    A foundation headed up by George Soros, one of the world’s richest people, is providing financial backing to organisations seeking to repeal the constitutional prohibition of abortion.

    A leaked strategy document details how Soros’s Open Society Foundation planned to fund Amnesty International Ireland, the Abortion Rights Campaign and the Irish Family Planning Association.

    The move was said to be part of a strategy to force the repeal of the Eighth Amendment, potentially setting off a chain reaction in other strongly Catholic countries in Europe.

    The three organisations confirmed to the Irish Independent they had received grants from the foundation.

    Hungarian-American businessman and philanthropist Soros (86) is among the 30 wealthiest people in the world, with an estimated fortune of €22bn. He is thought to have donated almost €10bn to various causes in recent decades.

    In the leaked strategy document, the foundation said it would fund the three Irish organisations “to work collectively on a campaign to repeal Ireland’s constitutional amendment granting equal rights to an implanted embryo as the pregnant woman”.

    The document continued: “With one of the most restrictive abortion laws in the world, a win there could impact other strongly Catholic countries in Europe, such as Poland, and provide much needed proof that change is possible, even in highly conservative places.

    “The recent legalisation of same-sex marriage offers valuable and timely opportunities to advance the campaign.”

    Catholic Poland is the target. Poland’s birthrate has recently recovered to replacement levels, the only EU country where this is so.

    Poland is experiencing a baby boom

    The Dziennik Gazeta Prawna, a daily Polish newspaper, has reported that Poland is experiencing a baby boom, with about 400,000 more children to be born by the end of the year.

    Since October 2016, the number of babies being born has unwaveringly been growing, resulting in a seven-year high being reached in January.

    The daily reports that the reason behind this baby boom might be the country’s “500+” programme. This programme provides families with two or more children with a state handout of around PLN 500 (which equals €115) every month per child.

    Another potential factor behind the baby boom could be the expansive Polish job market.

    The daily also adds that the government’s past family-oriented measures, such as extending parental leave, greatly contributed to the rise in births in Poland as well.

  22. Just curious, but how much of the Yes vote was against the Catholic church hierarchy and more their recent scandals?

  23. From talking to “yes” voters the general sentiment for repeal was to allow for cases of FFA cases, rape etc. I would question that there is actual support for the abortion regime that will be legislated for.

    I would agree Reg, but would question the ‘abortion regime’ emotive language. Just because a choice may be available it doesn’t mean that all women will avail of that choice.

    I’ve said here before that I know a small number of women who have terminated their pregnencies for various different reasons. All of them made the decision after a protracted period of intense soul searching.

  24. The good news is that the unfuckables of Ireland can now abort their babies

    But there really is something wrong in a society when these scenes greet the ‘victory’

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/73fd84898f9b2ea6da93a96cb58a0ca58657fb249009c0eb434f304f240773fe.png

    As I’m sure, the proposed 12-week rule will be aborted in the effort to achieve ‘equality’ with the UK at 24-weeks. Does anybody doubt or dispute this?

  25. The RoI hasn’t had the second, necessary plebiscite after the cooling off period. Gina Miller has to litigate for that first, and then the Dáil will have to give its approval.

    And of course any outcome which injuriously affects Northern Ireland cannot be allowed. This is not about narrow-minded Left Wing Irish interests. It affects many more people than that.

  26. “Does anybody doubt or dispute this?”

    Well I don’t. It will eventually become “on demand” as it is in the UK, except it is not PC to say that.

  27. Well I don’t. It will eventually become “on demand” as it is in the UK, except it is not PC to say that.

    I agree, Matt.

    Those thick Paddies didn’t know what they were voting for.

  28. Well I don’t. It will eventually become “on demand” as it is in the UK, except it is not PC to say that.

    FFS the parameters of the new legislation haven’t even been set yet.

    When do you envisage this Matt? One, five, twenty, fifty years time?

  29. Daphne

    Others here can speak from a vantage of greater knowledge, but IMO the great betrayals by the Church ( to me scandal is far too kind ) played a great role. The abuse of the young, the Magdalen laundries, whch many had not properly known about, all of it.

    The Church until recently had great moral authority , by its own actions it now would have none, except among older people.

    I know some of those older Irish people, some of them pious, kind, they are sad and bewildered by the changes that they see. They still go to Mass every Sunday, some more often than than, in now uncrowded churches

    I was in a rural house there in the early eighties, a priest stopped by to visit. All other conversation ceased when he entered, all eyes became focused on him, all adults and children listened to him. His prestige, due to his position, was great. I very much doubt that that would happen today.

    All the western countries have changed a lot, Perhaps not more so than Ireland, which has advanced a hundred years over the past forty, for better and worse.

  30. I was in a rural house there in the early eighties, a priest stopped by to visit. All other conversation ceased when he entered, all eyes became focused on him, all adults and children listened to him. His prestige, due to his position, was great. I very much doubt that that would happen today.

    An astute observation Phantom. Hurrah to it too.

  31. Just curious, but how much of the Yes vote was against the Catholic church hierarchy and more their recent scandals?

    None of it.

    The RoI is just another once decent, now degenerate society which has lost its collective memory at an astonishing rate. The takeover of the West by the radical Left is total and absolute.

  32. Daphne,

    Definitely some of it. Some of the older generation tend to have a knee-jerk, reactionary anti-Catholicism which is a bit quaint.

    However, I think the key reasons for yes were the medical profession’s intervention re fatal foetal abnormalities and the moderate yes arguments were strong (especially Simon Harris).

    Personally, I thought the 8th amendment a blunt instrument and in need of liberalisation. I just disagreed with the extent of the proposed new regime…hence my no vote.

  33. Pete

    Which nations are not degenerate in your opinion? Is the entire world awful?

    Was Ireland a better place when the thugs who ran the Magdalen Laundries had a great day in government there?

  34. Paul McMahon, on May 26th, 2018 at 11:24 PM Said:

    Well I don’t. It will eventually become “on demand” as it is in the UK, except it is not PC to say that.

    FFS the parameters of the new legislation haven’t even been set yet.

    When do you envisage this Matt? One, five, twenty, fifty years time?

    Come now Paul – your lot have played this game so often on ‘equality’, that it takes sheer gallus to dispute it as you do. Fair enough then – on the specific matter of abortion term limits, do you believe that it would only be fair for Ireland to have equality with the UK?

  35. Thanks MourneReg. I thought this was a vote to amend abortion laws, not a vote to make abortion legal. Maybe I’m mistaken.

  36. Do you believe that it would only be fair for Ireland to have equality with the UK?

    No, as always I’ll go along with the will of the Irish people to collectively decide their own legislation.

    Having said that, it’s interesting that you use the term ‘UK’ when there is no uniform law on abortion within that political construct.

  37. No, as always I’ll go along with the will of the Irish people to collectively decide their own legislation.

    Not permissible. It puts pressure on NI. Therefore the RoI vote must be reversed.

  38. “Not permissible. It puts pressure on NI. Therefore the RoI vote must be reversed”

    Come on, Pete.

    We all know it’s only a matter of time before all ROI legislation applies to NI. This can be a dress rehearsal.

  39. Allan@Aberdeen, on May 27th, 2018 at 12:11 AM Said:
    https://www.facebook.com/TheLiberal.ie/videos/2001611876550107/

    A Nigerian woman telling the Irish how shit their country is and why they should abort themselves – not joking, not satirising.

    Allan@

    Bloody hell!.

    What an angry ungammon looking woman, deep Africa has reached Ireland, the only thing missing from her angry tirade, is waving a machete around in the air, and an old rusty but still working AK47.

    If she’s that unhappy with the Irish, and her host country of Ireland, she surely must feel free to piss off back to Nigeria.

    Her language in front of children which can be seen in the video, should have been enough to see her arrested for a breach of the peace.

  40. //Her language in front of children which can be seen in the video, should have been enough to see her arrested for a breach of the peace.//

    Hear, hear. The referendum debate was generally civil; no place for this vulgar mouthing off on a public street.

    // but how much of the Yes vote was against the Catholic church hierarchy and more their recent scandals?//

    (nice anecdote, Phantom, by the way)

    I don’t think that had much to do with it. For the majority of the people who voted Yes, the Catholic church is now just another minor pressure group in Ireland and has by now lost so much authority and is so insignificant in public life that it isn’t even seen as worthy of protest.
    The church wisely stayed out of the debate for the most part. Any contribution from the hierarchy would probably have only been counterproductive.

    Speaking very generally, the CC has over the years probably served the Irish people rather well. There are huge reservations due here of course – its domination of public opinion, the media, politics and even the courts for so long was very damaging, while its mad obsession with all matters sexual led to unmeasurable pain and mental torture for generations of Irish people. Its hostility to Irish republicanism right from the start was another disgrace.

    But the church and its many organisations provided free education to generations of Irish children who would otherwise have got little or none. The state national schools – in an Ireland impoverished for so long – were dependent on the religious for this service, as were the health services. The quality of the thousands of catholic schools and hospitals across the country was generally very good.

    I was educated by the Catholic Christian Brothers all my life before I went to college. (you can judge the success or otherwise of their efforts 🙂 ). When I was about 11, I also joined the Legion of Mary, and in that organisation I encountered for the first time things like debate, order and organisation, cleanliness and self-respect, how to write a report, how to keep the minutes of a meeting, deal with money and act as treasurer etc. I remember how at the time it was exhilarating to be part of it, after the experience at home where we kids had little to do and nothing to say. Otherwise I would have spent those years stuck in an overcrowed hovel or throwing stones at mangy dogs on the street, like the other kids did. There were hundreds of such organisations all over the country and – along with visits to the aged and the sick – they provided a platform for anyone who wanted to learn something about life.

    One of the reasons Ireland finally escaped from poverty was the standard of education among Irish youth that attracted investment, and – at the start at least – most of that came from catholic-run schools. There’s also the inestimable comfort and support provided to lonely, sick and dying people by priests who worked tirelessly and without expecting anything in return.

    Critics of the church tend to ignore these things, but they were there, and their benefits for Ireland over almost a century can’t be overestimated.

  41. Fair play, Noel. A balanced overview that is often missing from the narrative in recent years.

    Slavish devotion has been replaced by them being scapegoats for everything negative.

  42. The good charitable deeds and personal kindnesses of thousands of church officials along with much of the social and educational structures of the Catholic Church should be praised when merited but the great wrongness in Ireland is that the Church was effectively viewed as the parent of the State and authority law and governance was subservient to the power of the church hierarchy .

    The morality of Catholic doctrine was effectively imposed on all Irish citizens by law and the church was essentially exempt from being accountable to the criminal law and therein lies the corruption and tolerance of wrongdoing by church individuals throughout the first several decades of the independent Irish state. All of the recent referendums and changes to laws and attitudes are a healthy rebalancing of that oppressive relationship and Ireland will be a much better and healthier place for all its people because of that.

  43. That’s a fair comment Noel. Both my primary and secondary education was with the Brothers and I recieved a first class education from them. There were also people like a friend of mine as a priest in Ballymurphy and then Parish Priest in Andersonstown was a lifeline, confidant and rock of stability and compassion to many prisoners’ families and institutions such as the St Vincent de Paul wh without many families in West Belfast would have went hungry and their kids wouldn’t have had Christmas presents.

    However both Phantom and Colm above are correct. The reverence and deference accorded to the individual priest and the position given to the influence of the Church on matters of State meant that the horrors of the Maggies, forced adoption and the physical and sexual abuse of children could happen largely unimpeded.

  44. //Slavish devotion has been replaced by them being scapegoats for everything negative.//

    Exactly. Both are equally wrong, and sooner or later there will be a fair reappraisal.

  45. “When do you envisage this Matt? One, five, twenty, fifty years time?”

    Maybe 20 years. The initial legislation will be tight but will be slowly chipped away at or ignored as it is in the UK.

    “Those thick Paddies didn’t know what they were voting for.”

    The same argument is made here in the UK about the Brexit vote.

    Fuck you again Pete.

  46. Maybe 20 years. The initial legislation will be tight but will be slowly chipped away at or ignored as it is in the UK.

    That sounds like the ‘slippery slope’ argument Matt.

    We’ll have to disagree on this one. Ireland is not Britain and as I said previously, the parameters of the legislation haven’t even been ratified yet.

  47. Apparently, there is already talk if the new abortion laws Canberra implemented by the end of 2018.

    If it was anything to do with a tax increase, the government would implement the law with 24 hours.

    Absolutely no doubt, by the time the new abortion law has gone in one side of Stormmont and came out the other side, it will be of use to no-one.

  48. It will be of no use to anyone in Stormont mainly because Stormont is the house of government in NI, not ROI…

  49. Seimi.

    Whatever.

    The plebs should be used to not getting what they actually voted for.

  50. Haven’t you been gloating about Brexit for the past while? You got exactly what you wanted?
    Or are they only ‘plebs’ when they vote for something you don’t want?

  51. //The plebs should be used to not getting what they actually voted for.//

    In this case, they’ll most likely get more than they voted for. Matt is correct there, IMO.

    As I said a few days ago, Ireland is quickly going to na madraí. Another body of a young man found in Donegal today, yesterday the body of an 18-yr-old found in Louth, a day or two before that it was a murdered man in Kerry, shortly after the brutal murder of the Filipino girl, which was in turn a day after the abused body of a 14-yr.old girl who had been brutally murdered was found in Dublin.

    I don’t know if these things have any connection with the referendum result, but there are some arguments to suggest they have.

  52. I don’t know if these things have any connection with the referendum result, but there are some arguments to suggest they have.

    Jesus Noel, that’s a bit of an Aberdeenesque tenuous link.

  53. You got exactly what you wanted?

    That was two years ago..

    If you think we are actually going to escape from the Brussels stupid club, then you might need to think again.

  54. As I said a few days ago, Ireland is quickly going to na madraí. Another body of a young man found in Donegal today, yesterday the body of an 18-yr-old found in Louth, a day or two before that it was a murdered man in Kerry, shortly after the brutal murder of the Filipino girl, which was in turn a day after the abused body of a 14-yr.old girl who had been brutally murdered was found in Dublin.

    Yes Noel.

    I have been reading about these horrific incidents in The Journal.

    Personally, I seriously doubt if there is any connection with the referendum result.

  55. If you think we are actually going to escape from the Brussels stupid club, then you might need to think again.

    Harri, there was a 2% difference in the result which means that you have a huge minority to consider. You’ll get your Brexit although it may not be the version you want.

  56. So according to Harri, those people who voted to Remain should be celebrating, rather than the ones who actually won the vote…

  57. //Jesus Noel, that’s a bit of an Aberdeenesque tenuous link.//

    🙂 Sorry, Paul, maybe I’m just a bit down after that landslide yesterday.
    Also the “celebrations” afterwards, when the subject should from all perspectives be seen as tragic.

    I don’t mean that one led to the other, just that both may be (very different) manifestations of a general trend and attitude. Instant gratification versus old-fashioned inhibitions, a lower threshold to such drastic interventions in the life process, materialism, a push-button morality that deliberately closes its eyes to certain awkward issues.

    I’m certainly not saying that all, and probably not even most, of the Yes voters on Friday had that attitude, but definitely a lot of them did and I think it’s sad to see so many Irish people jump on the modernist and materialist bandwagon so joyfully.

    The string of murders are just a – very – extreme example of all that.

  58. Seimi, on May 27th, 2018 at 7:36 PM Said:
    So according to Harri, those people who voted to Remain should be celebrating, rather than the ones who actually won the vote…

    Seimi.

    Whatever.

    The establishment will win.

    It always does.

    It’s irrelevant what us plebs want.

  59. I don’t mean that one led to the other, just that both may be (very different) manifestations of a general trend and attitude. Instant gratification versus old-fashioned inhibitions, a lower threshold to such drastic interventions in the life process, materialism, a push-button morality that deliberately closes its eyes to certain awkward issues.

    I suspect you’ve been away too long my friend.

    The heroin epidemic which swept through Dublin in the eighties and some of the nineties and the resulting endemic wave of crime and violence which accompanied it is almost a text book example of what you describe above and that was over two decades ago.

    Incidentally, I can’t find anything on the Donegal body find. Do you have a link?

  60. The heroin epidemic which swept through Dublin in the eighties and some of the nineties and the resulting endemic wave of crime and violence which accompanied it is almost a text book example of what you describe above and that was over two decades ago.

    The epidemic also swept through Portugal.

    Then they legalised it all.

    Portugal now have possibly the lowest drug related incidents in Europe, if not, the World.

  61. H, regarding what you won, you narrowly won the referendum.

    The new Irish telling the old Irish what’s what.

    Yeah, I saw that link earler on A@A’s single transferable comment above, (I thought you or him didn’t use Facebook?).

    It’s an immigrant mad feminist type woman invited to speak at a rally organised by presuamably Irish people.

    So what?

  62. Yeah, I saw that link earler on A@A’s single transferable comment above, (I thought you or him didn’t use Facebook?).

    I don’t.

    It was a link?.

    😏

  63. It’s an immigrant mad feminist type woman invited to speak at a rally organised by presuamably Irish people.

    So what?

    Shame on those Irish women holding children in their arms for not either walking away, or at least trying to shut the Nigerian mad woman up.

  64. Paul

    As I said, if this mad angry Nigerian is so unhappy, so pissed off at the Irish, and Ireland, she could always piss off back to Lagos, or some other African third world shithole she came from.

  65. It’s a link toF acebook.

    Shame on those Irish women holding children in their arms for not either walking away, or at least trying to shut the Nigerian mad woman up.

    I agree regarding the language however let me tell you thhat kids in Dublin are wel accustomed to listening to and using such language.

    However, she is giving her insane opinion and no one is obliged to listen to her much less take heed of anything she says.

    As I said, if this mad angry Nigerian is so unhappy, so pissed off at the Irish, and Ireland, she could always piss off back to Lagos, or some other African third world shithole she came from.

    She probably could but she probably doesn’t want to and no doubt she’d by just as angry there.

    Then they legalised it all.

    Portugal now have possibly the lowest drug related incidents in Europe, if not, the World.

    Ww. I wasn’t aware that heroin was legal in Portugal but yes, it’s interesting what you say. I read somewhere that per capita the north of Spain has the highest drug consumption in Europe but I can’t remember in my ten years here ever hearing anything about the drug culture in Portugal.

  66. Paul,

    info on some of those stories here

    https://www.irishmirror.ie/

    //It’s an immigrant mad feminist type woman invited to speak at a rally organised by presuamably Irish people.//

    She alone should be enough to make anyone hearing her vote No.

  67. Thanks for the link Noel.

    When I looked at RTE an hour or so ago there was nothing on the Bally bofey story.

  68. I honestly didnt even know of the “Irish Mirror” until the Filipino story broke and I found it by accident. For some reason, they seem to get that kind of news story much earlier than all other Irish news sources.

  69. As my Da used to say “there’s a fierce load of murders in the south these days”.

    Never mind abortion, he was upset when Congress removed the ban on foreign sports.

  70. Portugal now have possibly the lowest drug related incidents in Europe, if not, the World.

    Yes Harri

    But drugs prohibition in the UK will continue for as long as the editor of the Daily Mail demands it. And in total denial of all the evidence that it’s a failed policy which will continue to fail and at an ever-increasing cost to society in terms of crime, prison costs, gangster profits, corruption and untreated addiction.

  71. Never mind abortion, he was upset when Congress removed the ban on foreign sports.

    Superb Reg 🙂

  72. Paul, Reg is obviously from the Mournes, the exact opposite end of Ireland to the Kingdom.
    Besides, he works in Dublin. Can you imagine a Kerryman ever stooping that low?

  73. It’s interesting that the two Ulster constituencies had the lowest Yes vote in all of Ireland – Cavan-Monaghan with 55 pc and Donegal with 48 pc. All constituencies outside Ulster were higher.

    Donegal was the only constituency to vote No. Maybe it will now want to join Northern Ireland as an oasis of Catholic doctrine in this changing world.

    https://www.rte.ie/news/eighth-amendment/results/

  74. This Pope has opposed all orthodoxy so, given his record, did he make clear his opposition to repeal?

  75. This pope recently sent a message to bishops instructing them not to recruit suspected homosexuals as priests so he hasn’t abandoned all orthodoxy I’m sure you’ll be pleased to know Allan.

  76. Both the question above and the concern of the Pope’s orthodoxy is pretty ironic from someone who refers to some of his fellow countrymen as ‘Tims’ (or was it Taigs?)

  77. Is there any statement by the current Pope in which he makes clear his opposition to repeal and thus to abortion?

  78. I can’t find a specific statement by the Pope but the Church in Ireland has unreservedly and openly opposed the repeal . The pope’s opposition to abortion is undoubted and fundamental as a cornerstone of Catholic doctrine. If you are trying to imply the Pope not specifically commenting on the referendum is a sly nod to approval of abortion you are completely wrong Allan.

  79. But the Irish still allowed her a platform.

    Yes, she was speaking as a result of the will of the Irish people H.

  80. Everyone is entitled to an opinion on any topic in any country. Having a vote on the matter is the difference.

  81. Thinks different to what?

    As Colm alludes to above, she’s giving an opinion.

  82. Shami really is shameless..

    And the unelected peer said the human rights of women living in the region should trump democracy.

  83. She’s giving an opinion on what she thinks, (of which I disagree).

    Not very relevant to the topic at hand.

  84. She is the shadow attorney general, she is a front bencher, she is also in the HoL, she can change the law.

    You can’t.

  85. Absolutely O/T – but fair play to the bloke, credit, where credit is due.

    A true hero in every sense of the word.

    Macron makes ‘Spiderman of Paris’ a French citizen after heroic rescue of dangling toddler

    THE incredible video of a real-life ‘spiderman’ rescuing a four-year-old toddler hanging from a fourth-floor balcony has stunned France, and even led to presidential praise from Emmanuel Macron.

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/965970/Spiderman-Paris-Macron-Mamoudou-Gassama-rescue-viral

  86. Given Harri’s knowledge of the geographical and political make up of the island of Ireland, he probably believes that a member of the British HoL has some sway on what happens in a referendum in the ROI.
    The delucately-stomached Scotsmen is just trying to be mischievous.

  87. Harri, what she says is that Theresa May should consult with political parties and legislate for it.

    The normal Parliamentary process is that a Bill is proposed in the Commons, it has two readings there before going to Committee stage and then goes to the Lords for a third reading where if successful it is passed. That’s the normal process of Parliamentary legislation and tha seems to be what Chakrabati is suggesting here, something I disagree with as I think such a fundamentally emotive issue should be put to referendum.

    It doesn’t matter however, she’s just giving her opinion to a question asked and not really relevant to the Irish abortion issue.

  88. I think Shami is right. Legislation allowing abortion should be implemented in Northern Ireland. It is not something that should be decided by referendum or by local politicians imposing religious dogma on everyone. Women should be entitled to end unwanted pregnancies. If you oppose abortion don’t have one, or persuade others not to have one. Don’t impose your views on every woman in your political entity.

  89. Technically it has three readings in both the House of Lords and the House of Commons (starting in either). If the Bill originates in the Commons then it will go through all the Commons stages (First Reading – normally no debate or vote just an announcement; Second Reading – normally the debate on the issue of the Bill, rather than the detail; Committee stage – detailed [theoretically] examination of the Bill takes place, generally in a standing Committee; Report stage – gives ordinary MPs the ability to move their own amendments; Third Reading – the final vote on the Bill). After that it goes to the House of Lords where it repeats exactly the same process only in the Lords – 5 stages – 1st Reading, 2nd Reading, Committee Stage, Report Stage, and 3rd Reading. After that if the two versions of the Bill are different (normally due to the Lords accepting new amendments and/or rejecting Commons amendments) the Bills ping pong back and forward between the two Houses until there is an agreed upon final version. Then it is sent for Royal Assent.

    In terms of Shami Chakrabarti’s opinion on the subject. We all broadly believe that there should be things that the majority should not be able to vote away from the minority. There are fundamental rights that should not be subject to the democratic whim. I disagree with Shami Chakrabarti, and Colm it would seem, that this is one of those issues but the idea is far from radical or profound.

    It is worth noting that the extension of the Abortion Act is opposed by the majority of politicians in Northern Ireland, the majority of whom are not acting on religious grounds. Only 6 MLAs have indicated that they support the extension (or improvement) of the 1967 Abortion Act to Northern Ireland. 6 are likely to support some liberalisation of abortion law (beyond FFA, Sex Crimes etc…) but not the exact extension of the 1967 Abortion Act. The majority of those 6 expressed worries about the practice in Britain where people are able to abort severely disabled but not life threatened children after the 24 week cut-off. 12 now have a Free Vote where they where previously whipped to oppose all changes. I’d imagine the majority would continue to oppose the Abortion Act but may support other changes (FFA, Sex Crimes etc…). 32 support not change whatsoever – the bulk of that being the DUP but some others as well. 34 support limited liberalisation (FFA, Sex Crimes etc…) but do not support the extension of the 1967 Abortion Act. 27 of them are Sinn Féin MLAs who are likely to be whipped on the topic. Sinn Féin currently do not support the extension of the 1967 Abortion Act but are likely to support some liberalisation moving forward – probably in line with what is currently being debated in the South.

    So there is probably support for limited changes. There is unlikely to be support for the extension of the 1967 Abortion Act. Even limited (beyond FFA and Sex Crimes) reform is unlikely to gain a majority in the Assembly – even assuming that Sinn Féin switches its stance to 12 weeks. My calculations have that at 51-39 opposed. That being said the scale of the result in the South may give some politicians the political cover to go further than they would previously indicated they would be willing to do.

  90. The ‘will of the Irish people’ is sacrosanct, except in Lisdoonvarna

  91. Colm – this little exercise run in Ireland worked out very well for its financiers and, as shown earlier, Poland is the target: just think of the damage that can be wrought there.
    The video footage of so many women celebrating is sickening. There have been 8 million abortions in the UK since 1967, and this is what the victors want

  92. Lisdoonvarna was a travesty and should be reversed.

    Big fan of democracy are you?

    Colm – this little exercise run in Ireland worked out very well for its financiers and, as shown earlier, Poland is the target: just think of the damage that can be wrought there.

    Jesus, Mary and Joseph. It never fucking stops does it?

  93. Labour shadow attorney general says Theresa May should prove she is a feminist by liberalising abortion laws in Northern Ireland immediately and without a referendum

    This has nothing to do with NI or abortion. May has suddenly come under pressure from Tory and Labour MPs to impose abortion on NI, all of whom are pro-EU headbangers.

    This is about pushing May into doing something which would upset the DUP. If the DUP can be prized out of its agreement with the government then the government will fall and Brexit halted.

    They don’t give a stuff about NI or women there. It’s about stopping Brexit.

  94. Women should be entitled to end unwanted pregnancies.

    Rubbish.

    If you don’t want to be pregnant then don’t get pregnant. Infanticide should not be a contraceptive.

  95. If Harri, Shami Chakrabati, yourself, Theresa May or anyone else thinks that abortion legislation can be imposed on the wee six just like that that then they’ve no understanding of Parliamentary process.

    I think you’re in one of your makey uppy moods again Pete. Get over yourself, everything doen’t revolve around Brexit.

  96. Shami Chakrabati, is the Shadow Attorney General.

    She sits on Labours front bench.

    If she doesn’t know, then no-one does.

    It’s her job to know.

  97. If she doesn’t know, then no-one does.

    It’s her job to know.

    That’s precisely the reason I said this:

    It doesn’t matter however, she’s just giving her opinion to a question asked and not really relevant to the Irish abortion issue.

    If there’s any other means to implement statutes rather than the parliamentary process I’ve yet to hear it.

  98. Chakrabati is making a mockery then of the position of attorney general. The Labour front bench, and the HoL.

    Then again, that’s hardly a state secret.

  99. I have just seen footage of Irelands skanky diaspora returning for Repeal and being met at Dublin Airport by domestic skanks all hooting and hollering so that they can murder babies in the place where they are supposed to be safe. All these silly, soulless women want is more inconsequential sex, and morality will collapse as a result. These scenes would be shameful and dreadful in civilised society but Ireland is following the British route

  100. Chakrabati is making a mockery then of the position of attorney general. The Labour front bench, and the HoL.

    ?????

  101. Jesus, Mary and Joseph. It never fucking stops does it?

    Paul – no, it doesnt stop. It keeps going and going until then financiers achieve their objective. But you dont stop either for you deny any source evidence placed in front of you. Once again, countries which do not have genocidal abortion laws are to be targetted so that their reproduction rates are brought below replacement level AND they are to be told that they need immigrants from the third world.

    Allan@Aberdeen, on May 26th, 2018 at 10:38 PM Said:

    It’s taken a while but those who want another step towards the termination of Europeans usually get their way.

    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/billionaire-soros-funding-groups-fighting-to-repeal-irish-abortion-ban-34980624.html

    A foundation headed up by George Soros, one of the world’s richest people, is providing financial backing to organisations seeking to repeal the constitutional prohibition of abortion.

    A leaked strategy document details how Soros’s Open Society Foundation planned to fund Amnesty International Ireland, the Abortion Rights Campaign and the Irish Family Planning Association.

    The move was said to be part of a strategy to force the repeal of the Eighth Amendment, potentially setting off a chain reaction in other strongly Catholic countries in Europe.

    The three organisations confirmed to the Irish Independent they had received grants from the foundation.

    Hungarian-American businessman and philanthropist Soros (86) is among the 30 wealthiest people in the world, with an estimated fortune of €22bn. He is thought to have donated almost €10bn to various causes in recent decades.

    In the leaked strategy document, the foundation said it would fund the three Irish organisations “to work collectively on a campaign to repeal Ireland’s constitutional amendment granting equal rights to an implanted embryo as the pregnant woman”.

    The document continued: “With one of the most restrictive abortion laws in the world, a win there could impact other strongly Catholic countries in Europe, such as Poland, and provide much needed proof that change is possible, even in highly conservative places.

    “The recent legalisation of same-sex marriage offers valuable and timely opportunities to advance the campaign.”

    Catholic Poland is the target. Poland’s birthrate has recently recovered to replacement levels, the only EU country where this is so.

    Poland is experiencing a baby boom

    The Dziennik Gazeta Prawna, a daily Polish newspaper, has reported that Poland is experiencing a baby boom, with about 400,000 more children to be born by the end of the year.

    Since October 2016, the number of babies being born has unwaveringly been growing, resulting in a seven-year high being reached in January.

    The daily reports that the reason behind this baby boom might be the country’s “500+” programme. This programme provides families with two or more children with a state handout of around PLN 500 (which equals €115) every month per child.

    Another potential factor behind the baby boom could be the expansive Polish job market.

    The daily also adds that the government’s past family-oriented measures, such as extending parental leave, greatly contributed to the rise in births in Poland as well

  102. Oh FFS.

    Look the irish Constitution is going to be changed because people voted to repeal it not because of George Soros

    IF such a measure were to come about it would be the will of the Polish people similarly expressed through a national referenda.

    I thought you were a fan of democracy?

  103. Look the irish Constitution is going to be changed because people voted to repeal it not because of George Soros

    Paul – I have shown yet again that the agenda for abortion of whites is being funded by the clique fronted by Soros, and every white country where abortion is not available at genocidal levels will be targetted, and also told that it needs mass third-world immigration, just like Ireland.

  104. The document continued: “With one of the most restrictive abortion laws in the world, a win there could impact other strongly Catholic countries in Europe, such as Poland, and provide much needed proof that change is possible, even in highly conservative places.

    “The recent legalisation of same-sex marriage offers valuable and timely opportunities to advance the campaign.”

    Campaign? Is this some kind of on-going thingy?

  105. There has been a pro choice movement in Ireland for at least the last three decades. Before anyone even knew who the bogeyman was, you conspiritorial nutter.

    Stop women giving birth in Poland? Easy, stop the EU funding that the Polidh Government is using to pay women €105 a month for every child after the first one.

    Where does that uncomfortable fact fit into your hidden hand conspiracy?

  106. Paul – as before and before and before……. one reads

    The document continued: “With one of the most restrictive abortion laws in the world, a win there could impact other strongly Catholic countries in Europe, such as Poland, and provide much needed proof that change is possible, even in highly conservative places.

    “The recent legalisation of same-sex marriage offers valuable and timely opportunities to advance the campaign.”

    So Poland is a target for the abortion agenda, and Poland is spending money on maintaining the number of Poles in Poland. Ireland has succumbed to the agenda and is used as a stepping stone to Poland. But the disgusting nature of the celebrations is difficult to conceal…….

    https://twitter.com/marblemadeflesh/status/1000469197384749059

    Titus of the Dreamlands‏ @marblemadeflesh

    Imagine thinking you can have a reasonable debate in good faith with people who laugh, dance and sing when they’re allowed to murder their children. Disabusing yourself of that fiction is the necessary first step. Compromise is not possible.

  107. So let the facts be joined…..

    Ireland now has easy abortion and its birth rate shall decline as is intended

    Ireland is told that it needs one million third-world immigrants because there are too few Irish people – Ireland 2040

    That is called Population Replacement, because the Kalergi Train has no stops

  108. Ireland now has easy abortion and its birth rate shall decline as is intended

    Ireland is told that it needs one million third-world immigrants because there are too few Irish people – Ireland 2040

    That is called Population Replacement, because the Kalergi Train has no stops

    To take a comment from Allan’s link..

    “It’s no wonder Irishmen drink”

    😏

  109. Poland is spending money on maintaining the number of Poles in Poland

    Stop women giving birth in Poland? Easy, stop the EU funding that the Polidh Government is using to pay women €105 a month for every child after the first one.

    Where does that uncomfortable fact fit into your hidden hand conspiracy?

    Ireland is told that it needs one million third-world immigrants because there are too few Irish people – Ireland 2040

    Who told Ireland that?

  110. too many factors going on: Brexit, stourmont mothballed, N/S borders , direct rule? slim majority = nothing happening anytime soon .
    settle down to new BBC version of King Lear
    and be outrages that these muslims from pakistan are hading are asses to us on a plate in cricket, damn it all allan you teach the primitives the game and then they come and whup out butts at Lords, what is that all about? shocking eh
    🙂

  111. Paul – it’s Ireland 2040 with a population increase of 1 million by immigration, and you do know about it.

  112. Paul –

    I appreciate that living in Pamplona gives you an insight into British politics which I cannot attain. However the pressure on the PM is coming from (Tories) Amber Rudd, Maria Miller, Justine Greening, Nicky Morgan and Ruth Davidson.

    They are all 100 per cent Remainers, absolutely dedicated to blocking Brexit. That’s what it’s about.

  113. Paul – it’s Ireland 2040 with a population increase of 1 million by immigration, and you do know about it.

    Yeah but that wasn’t the question. Here they are again:

    Poland is spending money on maintaining the number of Poles in Poland

    Stop women giving birth in Poland? Easy, stop the EU funding that the Polish Government is using to pay women €105 a month for every child after the first one.

    Where does that uncomfortable fact fit into your hidden hand conspiracy?

    Ireland is told that it needs one million third-world immigrants because there are too few Irish people – Ireland 2040

    Who told Ireland that?

    I appreciate that living in Pamplona gives you an insight into British politics which I cannot attain.

    It doesn’t Pete, like you I too read newspapers, the internet, watch news etc.

    As I said, I suspect you’re in makey uppy mode. You know as well as me how the parliamentary legislation process works.

  114. So, a very Irish issue that has been debated endlessly since the X case in 1992 and especially since the Savita case and which has now been decided by a referendum where all sides had ample time to air their views…….is now suddenly part of yet another shadowy global conspiracy.

    As a no voter, I call bullshit on this nonsense.

  115. Hear hear Reg.

    A minimal knowledge of Irish affairs gleaned from the internet is no substitute for decades of empirical experience.

  116. MourneReg, on May 29th, 2018 at 10:39 AM Said:

    So, a very Irish issue……

    An Irish columnist explains why he voted ‘no’ taking account of the UK’s abortion experience. The belief that abortion is “a very Irish issue” is absurd. Soon, it will be a Polish issue following the testing ground of Ireland.

  117. The 8th amendment and it’s impact both positive and negative, the numerous court cases, follow up referenda and controversies that surrounded it, the prominent role it played in the national psyche – it absolutely is a very Irish issue. To suggest otherwise is absurd.

  118. Christ is he still on that Ireland 2040 bollocks again. As I said the last time he dredged up his crap on this:

    That is a down-right lie. I’ve read the document. It puts in place the planned services and national development due to fact that population growth is projected at 1 million by 2040. They don’t intend on bringing in a million immigrants. It will be that the South’s population will be that through natural growth (including immigration but also a decrease in emigration and an ageing population etc…) and plans need to be put in place to help manage that.

  119. It’s a tough issue for any thinking and feeling person, no slam dunk on either side.

    To say that the vote was significantly influenced by foreign ” financiers ” is IMO flat out wrong.

  120. They don’t intend on bringing in a million immigrants.

    I don’t suppose Greece, Italy, or Germany did either.

    😏

  121. In fact the evidence would suggest that the No campaign was more likely to have significant foreign financial backers.

  122. Seamus,

    Ireland is told that it needs one million third-world immigrants because there are too few Irish people – Ireland 2040

    Who told Ireland that?

    He still hasn’t got back to me.

    To suggest otherwise is absurd.

    Stop making sense Reg.

  123. The fact that there was no significant rural / urban difference in the vote was interesting. Not what I may have anticipated.

  124. Agreed Phantom. I think everyone thought that a large rural ‘no’ vote would have won the reerendum.

  125. It is worth noting that while the Yes campaign carried every constituency bar Donegal, and likely took Donegal county (or ran it close) when you factor in the votes for Bundoran and Ballyshannon which vote in Sligo-Leitrim, there is a a pretty major difference between the urban constituencies and the rural constituencies in the South (Dublin voted over 75% for Yes; the Dublin commuter belt where much stronger yes votes; Limerick City was nearly 10% higher than Limerick County). Rural areas voted Yes but not by the sort of margins that urban areas voted Yes. The thought was that it could be close because the expectation was the urban areas would vote Yes and rural areas No and they would balance each other out.

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