web analytics

Talking Point – 19.01.07

By ATWadmin On January 19th, 2007

rats.jpg

  1. ‘This picture, in its entirety, is an accurate metaphorical depiction of the battles currently underway between the various strands of the republican untermenschen on whether or not to support the only legitimate forces of British law and order in Ulster.’   Discuss.

55 Responses to “Talking Point – 19.01.07”

  1. There are serious discussion on the topic over on Slugger. Andrew cleary aspires to being the Jade Goody of the blogsphere.

  2. Excellent comment by Chris Donnelly:

    "After proudly stating that he’d only ever support an all-Ireland service, he (Gerry McGeough, a "leading" dissident) quickly backtracked to suggest that certain crimes (rape/ child abuse) could warrant engagement with the PSNI- until nationalists had their “own forensic labs” (?!) and could only suggest more debates as a means of devising an alternative republican strategy- in the absence of providing one himself."

    The dissidents are going nowhere – not even into the history books.

  3. Cunningham,

    Is Gerry McGeough that right-wing, anti-immigrant twat that lives in Drogheda?

  4. I think Reg’s contribution stands up Andrew’s thesis.

    They fell into the rat trap. Fnaar, Fnaar!

  5. "Is Gerry McGeough that right-wing, anti-immigrant twat that lives in Drogheda"

    A harsh Reg.

    In his New Year address, MrMcGeough spelt out how he and his associates were going to save the souls of Catholic Ireland.

    I quote from the "Hibernian magazine".

    "For years the Liberal horde has been on the rampage, telling us that Catholic Ireland is a vestige of a by-gone era best forgotten. People have been told to feel shame for their Catholicism and urged to dump their sense of Irishness in favour of a bright new multi-cultural, multi-faith society in which “tolerance” for every kind of perversion is the highest form of aspiration.

    The Catholic majority has endured in silence as loud-mouth campaigners have screeched for abortion on demand, contraception for school-children, marriage status and adoption “rights” for sodomites, easy access to divorce, pornography and every abomination imaginable. We have even been subjected to the indignation of witnessing an Orange Order honcho, at a recent “Twelfth” parade speech, praise those wonderful individuals in the South who have taken on and undermined the power of the Catholic Church.

    Enough is enough. We are now officially sick of these anti-Catholic, anti-Irish half-baked masons and Liberal perverts. The backlash is about to begin"

    And we should be all be grateful for that. Even us Protestant sinners….

  6. Paul,

    I’ll take that as a yes!

  7. again with the nazi terminology. I am very very sorry to all the catholic reading this, I share your offence, as will the vast majority of Ulster folk.

    Chris Donnelly as a tattoo of Gerry on his backside,
    although the dissidents lack a coherent strategy, this only means they adhere to the strategy of the republican movement throughout history.

    the converse argument about how accepting all the British intuitions and joining her majesties government will bring about a 32 county socialist republic is equally mysterious.
    I hope they fail, and I hope gerries pursuit of institutionalisation is successful, democratic republicanism is not only welcome in Protestant Ulster, it is encouraged.

    it is only the justice issue that is thorn, if the hands of the catholic elect were clean, and the terrorist in jail, this situation would be as near perfect as it could be
    the dissidents are the faithful republicans, hence you are quite right as viewing them as unrepresentative criminals and scum.

  8. "all the British intuitions"

    or rather juan,

    "all the British institutions"

  9. Bit harsh on the rats Andrew. Even with that unfortunate business with Bubonic plague they deserve better.

  10. Paul, change "Catholic" to "Protestant" in that diatribe and it would sound very familiar to us all at ATW.

  11. McGeough is indeed the Right wing anti immigration twat Reg – convicted IRA gun runner, one time Member of SF National executive and their national organiser during the first Nice referendum. Did Time in Germany and the USA, was sacked from his position as vice-principal of Bruce College after a parent complained about his terrorist past. Usual Double standards from the ROI – they cannot have a terrorist as vice-principal of a college but it was fine by them that we had the butcher of Claudy as Minister of Education.

    McGeough is a true son of Pearse – unashamedly honest about the troubles having been for a "Gaelic Catholic Ireland". None of the cobblers about freedom, equality or civil rights that Gerry and co. claim.

  12. I was just thinking it was very Pearce like, minus the direct incitement to murder, still why mention this mans beliefs and former prominence in Irish society when you can just change a few words and ascribe it to an indicative treatise on an different people to justify their persecution (to learn ’em for their sectarianism, of course).

  13. Mature debate going on here.

    I can see unionism’s leading intellectual lights are out in force, teasing out the issue with insightful arguments.

    Henry94 is right with is Jade Goody quip.

    Is this what the UK has come to?

  14. "McGeough is a true son of Pearse"

    Hardly. A true son of Franco perhaps – given his obsession with Masons. Or, as Cunningham suggests, swap the words Catholic for Protestant and you have a DUP/ATW manifesto.

  15. reg,
    did you ever see what the Irish thought the Masonic oaths were ? Franco and Pearce are from the same school of thought, or perhaps the suppression of the masons in Ireland has escaped you.

    Conservatives, from moderate to hard-line, like leftists, ascribe to a certain core formula of beliefs, interchanging aesthetics. this mans ideas are a quantum leap from the Christian social democratics of the dup. the idea ‘yes it a bad statement sure he sounds like a prod’, when it is only loosely plausible that he does, possibly Billy Wright / Andrew or someone, shows an interesting aspect of the physiology of sectarianism, that even one of your own groupings pronouncements can be with the wink of an eye, ascribed as an indication of the diminutiveness of disparaged groups.

  16. "McGeough is a true son of Pearse"

    <Q>Hardly.</Q>

    "Mc Geough remains resolute and steadfast to Patrick Pearse’s notion of a Gaelic Catholic Ireland that always stressed the importance of the relationship between culture, religion and nationalism. "

    http://lark.phoblacht.net/historyrepeates.html

  17. Juan,

    Using big words doesn’t detract from the fact that you are talking nonsense..

    McGeough’s sectarianism and intolerance is a mirror image of the views held by many in the DUP (including, I would imagine, its leader).

    Also, McGeough is not "one of my own grouping".

    "Franco and Pearce are from the same school of thought, or perhaps the suppression of the masons in Ireland has escaped you."

    Franco and Pearse are not even remotely from the same school of thought. Their "nationalisms" were completely different.

    What does any suppression of the Masons in Ireland have to do with Pearse?

  18. <Q>Franco and Pearse are not even remotely from the same school of thought.</Q>

    Franco was straight for starters 😉

  19. Don’t say that to Gerry McGeough!

  20. Juan
    "again with the nazi terminology. I am very very sorry to all the catholic reading this, I share your offence, as will the vast majority of Ulster folk."

    Much appreciated.

    If we could all conduct ourselves, and relate to each other with dignity, we might actually get somewhere.

  21. I would suggest the ideological origins (catholic conservative nationalism) of the suppression of the masons finds its roots in the same outlook that Pearce was the principle modern protagonist of.

    "Also, McGeough is not "one of my own grouping"." – he is Irish, this is the grouping I was referring to.

    "McGeough’s sectarianism and intolerance is a mirror image of the views held by many in the DUP (including, I would imagine, its leader)." – find us a quote in the manifesto that mirrors these views.
    I have no doubt that there are individuals that mirror this man (Kenny what’s his name…..), your pal suggested that it could be ascribed to the official position of a party or the general position of a cultural group, the first is false, the latter scandalous sectarianism.

  22. pearcy, your one of the most scandalous posters on here.

    if you enjoy courtesy, practice it.

    wasn’t pat a bad man who should have been kept away from children, as opposed to just a plain old gay man ? he was a teacher to, scary to think……

  23. juan
    my transgressions are a matter of public record.
    But now thankfully I live in a state of grace, having trod the path of the humble penitant.

  24. he’s liable to shoot you for trespasing percy…..

    only kidding lad !! :>

  25. Sir Percy,

    Wwe meet again, this time on MY home turf. I’m not impressed with your comments re me on Slugger and am considering if we need you here at all. My patience has limits.

  26. David Vance
    You’ll have to help me out on this one, I haven’t written a single word about you, I swear.
    pls direct me to the thread, and I’ll be emailing Mick Fealty. Thanks.

  27. "I would suggest the ideological origins (catholic conservative nationalism) of the suppression of the masons finds its roots in the same outlook that Pearce was the principle modern protagonist of."

    I disagree.

    Pearse was a proponent of the liberation nationalism that was much en vogue in the Europe of the early 20th century prior to the fall of the Empires. Unsurprisingly, it sought to assert national self-determination on the basis of a separate, unique identity.

    Franco’s nationalism was a version of the right-wing aggressive nationalism (fascism) prominent in 1930s Europe. It was usually based on a hankering for a lost empire/lands/importance, virulent anti-communism and a belief in the superiority of that nation/race.

    Virtually the only thing that connects the two men is their pious Catholicism and, possibly, an over-romantic view of war and death.

    "find us a quote in the manifesto that mirrors these views."

    Point taken. The DUP have, of course, recently moderated their viciousness to appeal to a broader mass of the unionist population. I’m sure it would be easy enough to find similar utterances from Paisley and his minions from the past – remember the Protestant Telegraph?

  28. Is there any thought to the fact that the whole issue is yet another chance for the destructive elements in the society to delay what should be self-evident – the need for an effective police force in a civilized society?

  29. DV
    That was percival not parcifal
    Hope you’ll now withdraw

  30. Same old same old Andrew.

    Still obsessed with six of Ulster’s nine counties…..

  31. <em>their national organiser during the first Nice referendum</em>

    Not true MR

    Pat Treanor was and still is National Organiser

  32. O’Loan uncovers RUC collusion with killers

    Northern Police Ombudsman Nuala O’Loan has found that several RUC Special Branch officers colluded with North Belfast Ulster Volunteer Force members who were involved in more than a dozen murders, senior sources have told The Irish Times.

    Her report, which will be published on Monday, finds that a significant number of Special Branch officers were complicit in protecting UVF agents or informers even though they knew they were directly involved in murders of Protestants and Catholics, the sources said.

    The report is based on an investigation known as Operation Ballast and will be handed to the North’s Director of Public Prosecutions who must then decide if former officers will face serious criminal charges.

    "There is intelligence within the policing system linking UVF members from its Mount Vernon unit in north Belfast to many killings, and that RUC Special Branch officers protected them from being made accountable to the law," a senior source has said.

    The report was triggered by the 1997 UVF murder of Raymond McCord jnr, allegedly on the orders of UVF Mount Vernon leader Mark Haddock, who is currently serving 10 years for the grievous bodily harm of Trevor Gowdy, a doorman at a social club in Monkstown, near Belfast in 2002.

  33. <Q>Pearse was a proponent of the liberation nationalism</Q>

    Pearse was a liberal as Lefebvre,

  34. Not according to Searc Chris .
    <Q>He was a Sinn Féin ard-comhairle member for Trinity College Dublin before leading Sinn Féin’s oposition to the Nice Treaty referendum in Ireland.</Q>

    http://www.searcs-web.com/mcgeough.html

    Posibly you should contact them and set them straight.

  35. They are talking nonsense! I am right on this one

    <em>He was a Sinn Féin ard-comhairle member for Trinity College Dublin</em>

    No such beast, there are several ways on to the Ard Chomhairle but being a member of TCD is not one of them.

    12 members are elected by the Ard Fheis every year and the remaining members are elected by the 5 Cúige.

  36. What way do you think the policing vote will go at the Ard Fheis, Chris?

  37. It’s too early to call yet but based on what I have been told and heard from Comrades I would say it will pass.

    It will need 2/3 however in order to avoid a split, 55-45 will not be good enough.

  38. Not disputing you Chris – just giving you my source, in case you thought I was relying on hostile press – Searc has in the past been reliable.

  39. >>It will need 2/3 however in order to avoid a split, 55-45 will not be good enough.>>

    Oh no! It will probably be passed 64 to 57!
    1922, remember?

  40. Chris, have you decided which way you’re going to vote?

  41. Do you mean for Shilpa or Jade – it’s too late now 😉

  42. colm, you’re in fine form
    norn iron would be a lot less brighter without you

  43. Sir Percy

    Norn iron is a lot less brighter without me – I’ve never lived there! I’m a Londoner born and bred, and still living in the old smoke .

  44. <em>Oh no! It will probably be passed 64 to 57!
    1922, remember?</em>

    I do remember, they will need 70% plus!

    Perc

    I have yet to decide how I will be voting, I will be back in God’s Country next week for my Cumann vote and then the South Armagh Comhairle Ceantair vote.

    I will make my final decision then, after that it’s down to Dublin for the Ard Fheis.

    It should be interesting at the very least 😉

  45. colm I meant the blogsphere,
    and weren’t you supposed to be in Brussels ?

  46. chris,
    very interesting indeed, so many different votes.
    I do hope you don’t resign from SF.

    I see peteb is stirring the pot again on Sluggers with his anti-SF threads.

    where is that man coming from?

  47. Brussels ? Don’t know where you got that idea from. You must be confusing me with some other bright light in the blogosphere.

  48. It’s the druks Colm 😉

  49. Colm, He assumes you’re from Brussels b/c of the way you tax our intellects. Ba Boom!

  50. Charles

    Groan! That was corny but good 🙂

  51. "druks" MAD I think that was a freudian slip.
    Wot are you on Mr.?

    If you call a Red Rooster; and richmond menthol ciggies, drugs then its hands up. I’m an addict!

    colm I must be indeed.

    Generally speaking, what an exciting time to be alive in Ireland. North and South.
    SF Ard Fheis on support for policing; elections to an Assembly. Power-sharing I’d say odds on fav.
    Southern Elections.
    Ireland to win both Grand slam, and Rugby World Cup.

    UK politics dominated by Jade Goody

    You don’t know how lucky you are 😉

    any bedsits in Coleraine for rent for a humble wee disabled bairn like sir percy.

  52. If I was you percy I would move just outside Coleraine, out in the sticks to somewhere like Kilrea.

    Interesting people 😉

  53. That;s one thing about Shinners in South Derry Chris – they shift Druggies and fast!

  54. LOL, Lovely part of the world 😉

  55. I wish I’d never mentioned the odd occasion that I’ve smoked a joint 🙁

    chris, Maybe you’re right about Kilrea.

    But what’s attractive about Coleraine is they are so friendly and non-prejudiced up there.

    check out this event for Jan 24th

    http://www.colerainebc.gov.uk/news/showevent.php?nid=2798&page=newsevents

    "The main aim of the training is to help participants to identify and be aware of the impact of prejudice and understand the principles of equity, diversity and interdependence.

    wonder if Madradin might be interested, as something useful to do with his retirement? 😉