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Don’t be sold the Brooklyn Bridge

By Patrick Van Roy On June 8th, 2020

There is a pervasive twisted view of the United State by foreigners. A menagerie of twisted bits and pieces of things they think they know and think they understand, but are so lost in there own perceptions laid on them by the society they live in and self hating American Liberals that they truly don’t know how far off their views are and we have to laugh. 

The following is a perfect example. A well written piece in a respectable U.K. paper, by a self hating American Liberal.  I’m sure it was received as a well reasoned piece, in spite of the fact that it’s blasphemous drivel.

 

If you’re surprised by how the police are acting, you don’t understand US history

Policing in America was never created to protect and serve the masses. It can’t be reformed because it is designed for violence.

Yes designed to contain the violence of wicked men that prey on society through the use of violence on their fellow men.

Amid worldwide protests against the police killing of George Floyd, activists around the US have raised demands for specific policy measures, such as defunding the police. Justifying these demands are the images emerging from the protests, with police officers ramming protesters in vehiclesindiscriminately attacking protesters with pepper spray and exerting excessive force.

That is the view and personal opinion of someone with a preset interpratation of how they see events, not a reporting of them as they actually happened on the ground. Such is the “Education” the writer recieved at Columbia.

Local and state policing budgets have nearly tripled since 1977, despite declining crime rates.

NO the crime rates have dropped because of that increased spending not in spite of it. That late 60s and early 70s were a time of wild riots and unrest. With most major cities trapped in escalating violent crime. The Police budgets were increased and tactics were changed steadily bringing those rates down year by year through good policing.

Even people unfamiliar with the police and prison abolitionist movement are starting, rightly, to envision that public spending could be used in more socially responsible ways.

Yes using it to lower the violence committed on the general population from the criminal one is a waste of funds.

But beyond the fiscal argument is an ethical one: policing in America cannot be reformed because it is designed for violence. The oppression is a feature, not a bug.

The Jackboot Thug of American oppression….. right out of a pulp novel. Which is giving the writer more credit than they deserve. 

That seems like a radical sentiment only because policing is so normalized in American culture, with depictions in popular media ranging from hapless, donut-chugging dopes to tough, crime-fighting heroes. We even have a baseball team named after a police organization – the Texas Rangers.

A view based on american TV reruns is the writers real view of American Cops, and the programming of her “Higher Education”, but this is where she really go’s into the twilight zone of delusion. 

But it’s time to look beyond the romanticization of American police and get real. Just as America glorifies the military and Wall Street, and some Americans whitewash the confederate flag and plantation homes, the history of policing is steeped in blood.

A condemnation of the entire American culture in a runon sentence of the writers own fantasy view of how her fellow Americans think, spewing the nonsense that was fed to her.

In fact, the Texas Rangers are named after a group of white men of the same name who slaughtered Comanche Indians in 1841 to steal indigenous territory and expand the frontier westward. The Rangers are considered the first state police organization.

So the Texas Ranger ball team is an idealization of mass murdering genocidal men with badges…. The Texas Rangers who stopped indian raids, cattle rustling, train roberies even Bonnie and Clyde one of the most decorated groups of Law Enforcement in American history were really a Death Squad….. gee that’s an objective view.

Likewise, as black people fought for their freedom from slavery by escaping north, slave patrols were established to bring us back to captivity. Many researchers consider slave patrols a direct “forerunner of modern American law enforcement”.

The writer believes herself to be a runaway slave with men in sheets chasing her…. like she is part of the story, one of the oppressed…. lol A Social Welfare Attorney, and a published writer one of the oppressed… 

In northern “free” states, police precincts developed in emerging industrial cities to control what economic elites referred to as “rioting”, which was “the only effective political strategy available to exploited workers”. But, as described in the text Community Policing, this “rioting” was:

actually a primitive form of what would become union strikes against employers, [and] [t]he modern police force not only provided an organized, centralized body of men (and they were all male) legally authorized to use force to maintain order, it also provided the illusion that this order was being maintained under the rule of law, not at the whim of those with economic power.

In other words, police were never created to protect and serve the masses, and our legislative and judicial systems – from Congress to the courts to prosecutors – have made this clear. Congress’s 1850 Fugitive Slave Act, for instance, incentivized law enforcement officials to capture Africans suspected of running away from slavery, paying officials more money to return them to slave owners than to free them.

The exploited worker… a fellow traveler I’m sure…. the strong arm and boot of the evil corporations. The Police’s purpose is to crush the black slave and his modern counterpart the “worker” twisting it back on to a very confused view of American History. This poor git has no idea how hysterically funny her marxist comic book view is in reality. 

Instead of expanding the American political project to embrace black people as free citizens, our institutions made caveats to exclude them from the country’s founding principles. Historically, most black people were not considered human, let alone citizens worthy of police or constitution protections. We were property. Even free blacks were, at best, second-class citizens whose status could be demoted at any white person’s whims and who fundamentally had “no rights which the white man was bound to respect”, as the supreme court affirmed in 1856.

These are the ramblings of a brainwashed woman who has been taught to belive she is oppressed in spite of the reality of her very own achievements in the country she derides. 

Modern court rulings have steadily eroded civil liberties to give police more power and permit racially discriminatory policing, convictions and sentencing. This entrenched history of violent white supremacy is a lot to attempt to reform. So just as 19th-century abolitionists set the terms of their fight beyond incremental improvements to slavery, abolitionists today assert that policing and incarceration must move past modest proposals that fundamentally maintain the system.

No greater period of equality has ever existed and in no other place as it does in modern America. A Black Man was elected President twice by an overwhelming white majority of the American People. The abolitionists she speaks of were Lincoln and the Republicans a fact I’m sure she is unaware of or more likely just ignores. 

The billions of dollars that governments spend on increasingly militarized police can be better used to address the underlying socioeconomic conditions that contribute to police encounters. We should divert resources towards investments in mental health, public education, drug prevention programs, homelessness prevention, community-centered crime prevention and jobs development.

Because the hundreds of Billions we’ve already spent just aren’t enough and never will be…

The immediate aftermath of George Floyd’s killing felt like another police encounter that would lead to yet another viral hashtag with little police reform. But the work of abolitionists has set the bar even higher. We should move past calls for criminal justice reform and instead make demands for freedom.

Viva the Revolution….. 

 

  • Malaika Jabali is a writer, attorney and activist whose first short film, Left Out, examines the economic crisis facing black midwesterners
  • On Tuesday 9 June at 7pm BST (2pm EDT) the Guardian is holding a live-streamed event about the meaning of George Floyd’s killing, featuring Guardian journalists including US southern bureau chief Oliver Laughland, reporter Kenya Evelyn, writer Chris McGreal and columnist Malaika Jabali. Book tickets here
  • and a total brainwashed wackjob……

People like this poor delusional brainwashed writer feed the Euro delusion and slanted view of what the United States is and the people that live in it. She purposefully promotes a false narrative to audience that knows no better, that has no perspective of their own and trust these radical voices. I mean come on she’s a black woman in Brooklyn she KNOWS….. 

Don’t be sold the Brooklyn Bridge, because that’s what she’s doing. Getting paid to run a con.

101 Responses to “Don’t be sold the Brooklyn Bridge”

  1. It’s funny that the Texas Rangers are mentioned. The (Black) Democrat led Dallas City Council just removed a statue of a Texas Ranger from the Dallas Airport which has stood for 60 years. After a week of riots and looting that’s what they thought important to do.

  2. To be fair the statue is of a Texas Ranger who tried to prevent school integration (illegally I might add). Is that who you want to represent law enforcement in Texas? A criminal white supremacist?

  3. Minneapolis City Council members buy the Brooklyn Bridge?:

    Minneapolis City Council members intend to defund and dismantle the city’s police department […]

    Pressed for details on what the dismantling might look like, Bender told CNN she was looking to shift police funding toward community-based strategies and that the city council would discuss how to replace the current police department.
    “The idea of having no police department is certainly not in the short term,” she added

    https://edition.cnn.com/2020/06/07/us/george-floyd-protests-sunday/index.html

  4. …in spite of the fact that it’s blasphemous drivel.

    Where does she blaspheme? Is it ‘blasphemous’ to question the US narrative?

    No greater period of equality has ever existed and in no other place as it does in modern America.

    You forgot to add, ‘under Donald J. Trump.’ This is the sort of shit he comes out with, isn’t it?

  5. The United States spends more on policing than any other nation in the G7 (against GDP). It spends pretty much more on policing than any other advanced economy does. Now it is worth saying not substantially more. Most countries are between 1-2% of GDP spent on policing and public safety. The US spends 2%. It is more than everyone else, but not outrageously so. It is also why diverting excess police resources into public welfare etc… won’t really do much – it isn’t that big to begin with, and won’t increase the spending in those other areas that much either.

    What is clear, in my opinion, is that the US is not spending its policing resources wisely, with too much focus on increased militarisation of the police, an increase in spending without causing an increase in service provided, and not a strong enough focus on training. The focus on militarisation, and the lack of focus on de-escalation, causes increasingly violent responses from the police. Despite studies that show that when police respond to a situation with force it increases the risk to not only civilians but to police officers. Not only are police officers increasing the risk to civilians (and killing 1,000 of them every year) but they are increasing the risk to themselves and their fellow officers.

    In one case a drunk 23 year old man got into a fight in a house. Police were called. Before police arrived the man’s father had arrived and calmed the 23 year old down. He was no longer a risk to himself, or others. Police arrived with rifles, pointed them at him, began screaming at him, and because he didn’t immediately follow instructions they tazed him, then shot him in the back with an M4 carbine, a military assault rifle. He was an unarmed man, murdered in front of his father, with a military weapon. Police officers were not charged.

    Between 2015-2019 police officers in America killed 5,399 civilians. 353 were unarmed. Now of those 353, 137 were attacking police officers or civilians while unarmed. That means that in 137 cases over the course of 5 years the police could not, or would not, de-escalate a situation with an unarmed aggressive suspect. So they just shot him instead.

    Even worse were the 177 who were killed while not attacking police officers or anyone else (39 were undetermined whether they were attacking or not).

    Not to mention the thousands of situations where an armed individual was not attacking police and was killed, or even situations where an armed individual was attacking police but the police officers refused to try and de-escalate the situation. The firearm at their side should be the absolute last resort, not the first option.

    Police in America kill between 4 and 5 mentally ill people every week. Between 2015 and 2019 police officers killed 1,214 mentally ill people in the United States. That is horrifying.

    To give a separate example, in England and Wales (hardly a place with perfect policing) the majority of people arrested aren’t even handcuffed. No police officer, certainly outside of an Armed Response Unit (who should only be deployed in extreme situations), should have a military weapon. De-escalation should be the principle tool of a police officer. If they have an opportunity to de-escalate a situation and don’t, and their refusal, or failure, to de-escalate the situation results in the death of a person then the officer should be prosecuted for unreasonably causing the death of another human being. They hold huge power over the lives of their fellow citizens. That power should be reasonably applied, and when it is unreasonably applied there should be consequences.

  6. Seamus, on June 8th, 2020 at 10:50 AM Said:

    To be fair the statue is of a Texas Ranger who tried to prevent school integration…..

    Seamus – can you add a short sentence to ‘integration’ and what it means?

  7. Before the Brown v. Board of Education decision the standard law in the South was decided in Plessy v. Ferguson (separate but equal). Simply put the Plessy decision found that the equal protection required under the 14th Amendment meant that as long as the state provided access to services for all people that the provision of those services could be separate. If they provided for education of white people then they had to provide it for black people, but the didn’t have to provide the same service. The result was school segregation, where the money spent on black schools was normally substantially less.

    Brown v. Board of Education ended that. Separate educations systems were found to be “inherently unequal”, and thus violated the 14th Amendment. They thus ordered the ending of school segregation, and ordered that all schools in the Deep South become integrated, where all children are educated together.

    The statue that was removed was of Captain Jay Banks, who was in charge of a contingent of the Rangers who prevented the integration of a high school and community college in Mansfield (a suburb between Fort Worth and Dallas).

  8. Here is a wiki article on the incident, though it doesn’t mention Banks specifically:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mansfield_school_desegregation_incident

    Here is a photo of Banks during the situation:

    https://digital.utsa.edu/digital/collection/p9020coll008/id/8162/

  9. Brown v. Board of Education, Plessy v. Ferguson (separate but equal). neither case was needed both were caused by Democrats still trying to undue the Civil War both you and this dippy broad from Brooklyn act like this nation didn’t fight it’s bloodiest war over Slavery.

    The Texas Rangers never acted independently to stop black children from doing anything to any level that they were involved it was on orders from Democrat politicians.

    You all also neglect to mention that it was the “Insurrection Act” The Deployment of Active Military by the President to force the Democrats to comply with School Integration and it was a Democrat George Wallace that stood in the doorway of a school to block that Integration.

    You people echo what I said. You’ve been fed a bunch of lies and believe fantasies.

  10. “The Texas Rangers never acted independently to stop black children from doing anything to any level that they were involved it was on orders from Democrat politicians.”

    The Befehl ist Befhel defence has kind of been out of vogue for 75 years.

  11. //The Befehl ist Befhel defence has kind of been out of vogue for 75 years.//

    Hmmmm I think it was all the rage again around 1968 when GIs and various other ranks were being investigated about Mai Lai.

    And you can be sure there’d be a retro version if certain incidents in Guatanamo Bay and other “rendition centres” ever came to be investigated.

  12. Indeed Noel. It would seem fascists of all stripes ignore the law part of law and order.

  13. yes because Americans are evil…… the world should follow the lead of Russia and China the worlds good cultures.

  14. Don’t worry, you and your President are following their lead.

  15. The Befehl ist Befhel defence…. is not an excuse nor a defence it was a reality. The Rangers are Special Force Police, but they are still nPolice and Follow the orders they were given it’s their job to pretend because that is what you are doing that they just decided to block black children of their on volition is a delusion.

  16. Shooting into peaceful crowds would be highly approved by Xi and Putin.

    Good lad.

  17. If a police officer is ordered to break the law he has a duty to refuse to do so. If he doesn’t then he is a piece of shit criminal and should be thrown in jail.

  18. Correct

  19. If you’re going to pull events from history…. from American History you might want to learn it.

    At a time when Segragation was the Law of the Land following orders to follow and enforce those segragation Democrat Laws is not following an illegal order, but never allow facts to get in the way just foam at the mouth like phantom or repeat the misinformation you’ve been fed.

    You’ll still look ridiculous.

  20. This focusing on ” Democrats ” on this thing, 1n 2020, isn’t fooling anyone, any more than the ” Flynn wuz framed ” stuff is.

  21. It wasn’t the law though. The Supreme Court had declared those laws unconstitutional and struck them down. They were no longer the law. Thus they were not following the law, they were ignoring it. And thus were criminals, not law men.

  22. I wouldn’t be surprised if it was the black dictator’s fault.

    Generally when someone describes one of their fellow nationals as ‘self hating’ it’s a fairly good indication of the accuser than the accused.

  23. And you can be sure there’d be a retro version if certain incidents in Guatanamo Bay and other “rendition centres” ever came to be investigated.

    and more current versions:

    Our position is these officers were simply following orders from Deputy Police Commissioner Joseph Gramaglia to clear the square.

    It doesn’t specify clear the square of men, 50 and under or 15 to 40. They were simply doing their job. I don’t know how much contact was made. He did slip in my estimation. He fell backwards.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52945190

    The last line reminds me of the old joke about how many cops does it take to break an egg.

  24. Maidin Mhaith, y’all!

    Seamus. Interesting stats on worldwide police statistics. However, the idea of defunding the police is the biggest piece of commie bullshit I’ve ever heard in my life. I’d say give them money for de esculation training. And for goodness sake, someone teach the blacks what to do when they encounter the police!

  25. It is about more than funding de-escalation training. The police needs to be demilitarised immediately. They shouldn’t have assault rifles, or tanks etc… The presence of a militarised police forces makes a military response (a violent response) more likely.

    Also why should blacks be taught what to do when they encounter the police? Maybe police should be taught what to do when they encounter blacks.

  26. De-funding the police / dismantling police forces will lead to an exodus of the middle and upper class and of business.

    This is one of the truly imbecilic ideas of all time. Anyone who supports it should be sent to the nearest insane asylum.

    But someone said it, and now many are parrotting it.

    And I say this as a critic of police violence.

  27. Blacks are taught to hate the police in many instances. I know this for a fact. That’s why they fight the police when confronted, and are more likely to be hurt. Maybe with the history in this part of the world, they should be afraid of the police, I don’t know.

  28. They are also more likely to be attacked by the police without adequate reason. How many white people have been asked for their drivers license by police, and when they go to get it have been murdered by the police for doing so?

    They aren’t taught to hate the police. In many cases they hate them with adequate reason after decades of abuse.

  29. “De-funding the police / dismantling police forces will lead to an exodus of the middle and upper class and of business.”

    It can also be effective if done right. The PSNI isn’t perfect but they have put in a lot of reforms to improve their relationship with Catholics in Northern Ireland. If they were still the RUC, and the RUC put in those reforms, then I don’t think it would have been as effective. People wouldn’t have been able to see past the history.

  30. It may come as a surprise to some, but arrogance, stupidity and abuse of power by police aren’t limited to cops against blacks.

    There are many cops who should not be cops.

  31. There is talk in some quarters of dismantling police forces and replacing them with some ” community ” bullshit

    Which at the end of the day would mean the the Crips and Bloods would rule their ” turf ” areas, without anyone interfering in their trade.

  32. They aren’t limited to cops against blacks. But it is disproportionate against blacks. Blacks make up a higher proportion of police interactions, and a lower proportion of police officers. This there is a disproportionate amount of white cop on black civilian violence.

  33. Maybe we could all pitch in to pay for an actual conservative to write posts with credible arguments on ATW.

  34. Seamus

    You made an interesting point. What is the main difference between the new PSNI and the old RUC regarding Catholics? How can this be applied to say New York City?

  35. It would depend on what that “community bullshit” is. Replacing the current police force, with all its baggage, with better policing.

    It is worth noting that in 2014-15, during an NYPD labour dispute, the NYPD pulled back from “proactive policing”. They would only leave their cars if compelled, would only perform necessary duties, and stopped operating broken windows.

    Crime went down.

  36. It says a lot about a country when seemingly no expense is spared in kitting the police out like robocops who drive about in batmobile like vehicles while medical staff in hospitals are complaining they can’t get face masks, Charles.

    Over the years I’ve watched the blatant militarisation of the US police from the ‘protect and serve’ public servants to something resembling the policing militias of San Salvador & Bogata. Most cops in Europe routinely carry sidearms with some individuals in specialised units being issued with SMGs. Why do the US cops need to be geared up like Delta Force?

    Such a move should worry any civic minded citizen. I read this article just yesterday from a sociology professor, oh, he was also a Boston PD cop for 27 years working in uniform, as a dectective, SWAT and anti gang units, reaching the rank of lientenant. It makes pretty frightening reading :

    https://theprint.in/opinion/militarisation-of-us-police-since-9-11-makes-it-see-protesters-as-enemy-writes-an-officer/436284/

    Someone teach the blacks what to do when they encounter the police!

    Bow their heads and call them massa?

  37. And it is worth noting that under Giuliani and Bratton, using the principles of Jack Maple, crime went down by astonishing high percentages, exactly as Giuliani and Bratton said beforehand.

  38. “What is the main difference between the new PSNI and the old RUC regarding Catholics? How can this be applied to say New York City?”

    Ultimately there were 175 different recommendations in the Patten Report, some of which were specific to the situation in Northern Ireland. But many would be transferrable.

    One of the major changes was a major effort to make the police more demographically representative of the community they police.

    Non-Hispanic whites make up 33% of New York City’s population, but make up 47% of the NYPD, and almost 80% of the chiefs, inspectors, and 72% of the captains. And that is after some concerted effort in the last 20 years to change that.

    The way the PSNI achieved that was through quotas. In the case of the PSNI it was 50/50. For every 2 police officers hired one must be a Catholic. That should be achieved in a 1 thirds/2 thirds approach in the NYPD. For every 3 police officers hired two must be minorities.

    The complaints procedures against the police were overhauled, with the creation of a new independent organisation, the Police Ombudsman for Northern Ireland. An equivalent for the NYPD would be moving the Internal Affairs division out of the NYPD.

    Some of it recommended things the NYPD have already had (in my opinion the recommendation of the new purpose-built police college was modled directly on the New York City Police Academy). But the new training courses included community awareness training, integrated into all aspects of training, as well as instruction on the implications of the Human Rights Act, and the European Convention on Human Rights and the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. It emphasises the need for community and neighbourhood based policing.

  39. “And it is worth noting that under Giuliani and Bratton, using the principles of Jack Maple, crime went down by astonishing high percentages, exactly as Giuliani and Bratton said beforehand.”

    And when New York stopped using those principles crime stayed down. Stop and frisk ended and crime stayed down. The NYPD temperarily abandoned broken windows and crime stayed down. Which may suggest that those principles may not have been as effective as first thought.

  40. The concept of ‘warrior policing’ being taught by some PDs:

    tnr-reg.onecount.net/onecount/redirects/index.php?action=get-tokens&js=1&sid=&return=https%3A%2F%2Fnewrepublic.com%2Farticle%2F141675%2Fprofessor-carnage-dave-grossman-police-warrior-philosophy&brand=ONC&sid=cp6arf04o1932qbki845f1ktv1

    My father smiles wryly. Cops didn’t think of themselves as warriors in his day. But by the time he retired, in 1998, he had witnessed firsthand the seismic shift in policing that gave rise to the warrior cop. “The younger cops are a little different, you know,” he told me. “Christ, they pump fucking iron, got shaved heads, got fucking tattoos.” He likened them to Special Forces soldiers. “I think they’re being trained that way,” he added.

    “You guys didn’t get trained like that?” I asked.

    “No,” he said. “You were just an ordinary person that happened to be a cop. You weren’t out to conquer the fucking world. Just the assholes, that’s all.”

  41. Or it may suggest some of the techniques that broke the back of crime here did not need to be used after a certain point, after the war had largely been won.

    Compstat, a cornerstone of Maple and Bratton’s principles is very much still in use.

    What gets measured gets done.

  42. Seamus

    I would disagree, blacks are taught to hate police but they are taught BY the police to hate them

    You can’t make friends by kneeling on their necks even if you don’t kill them

  43. “What gets measured gets done.”

    In God we trust; all others bring data

  44. Seamus

    Thank you for your 3:08! Well explained.

  45. I invite anyone here to pick a NYC police precinct at random and to check the crime statistics over time

    I’ve seen it with my own eyes.

    Giuliani, Bratton and Jack Maple were transformative leaders. And remember that Theresa May refused his offer to serve in the UK.

    And Bratton opposed brutality in New York, Boston and Los Angeles. Incidents did happen, but those involved were punished.

    https://www1.nyc.gov/site/nypd/stats/crime-statistics/borough-and-precinct-crime-stats.page

  46. Refused Bill Bratton’s offer to serve in the UK.

  47. Not entirely true. She simply pointed out that it would be illegal (which it was at the time) for Bill Bratton to be the Met Commissioner.

    At the time the Met Commissioner and the Assistant Commissioner had both resigned within days of each other, leaving the Met leaderless. The appointment of Bratton would take primary legislation, which would have delayed an appointment.

  48. No problem Charles. Thanks.

  49. There are special units that do have military style equipment, but that is not your average police officer. The force has to be equipped from dealing with a wide range of crimes from puck pockets to bombing.
    The NYPD has lots of cops engaged in the communities with great organizations like the police athletic league.

  50. I think that she, the Met brass, the establishment wanted no part of this outsider. Because they knew everything.

    https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2012/01/09/supercop

  51. I would place doubts on the any article that didn’t explain that it would have been illegal for him to be named the Met Commissioner. Yes there was probably a reluctance on the part of Theresa May to change that law. It would have been her saying to every single other Chief Constable in the UK that they weren’t good enough to do the job. They were so bad they had to change the law to bring in a foreigner to do it. Ultimately, from May’s view (and I’m not a fan of her’s), the issue was bigger than Bill Bratton.

  52. “There are special units that do have military style equipment, but that is not your average police officer.”

    I think that is the way it should be. And I think the NYPD, for its faults, is better than many police forces in the US, including attempting to get demographically balanced policing. But the case I put up earlier, in Wichita, the standard police (not a specialised unit, not HRT etc…) showed up to a standard domestic situation with assault rifles and shot someone.

  53. The most Successful organizations in any field very often bring in leadership from the outside. Easier to change things if you’re not tied to the old ways.

    Bratton didn’t come from the NYPD. He was a super confident Bostonian.

  54. I’m not aware of the Wichita incident. Can you give me the decedent’s name and I’ll look it up.

  55. There are special units that do have military style equipment, but that is not your average police officer

    Whilst I agree that all police forces have special units the author makes the argument that this militarisation is pervading the police:

    Even controlling for other possible factors in police violence (such as household income, overall and black population, violent-crime levels and drug use), more-militarized law enforcement agencies were associated with more civilians killed each year by police. When a county goes from receiving no military equipment to $2,539,767 worth (the largest figure that went to one agency in our data), more than twice as many civilians are likely to die in that county the following year

    And not only in military equipment but that uniformed officers are given seminars on the concept of ‘warrior policing’ :

    https://harvardlawreview.org/2015/04/law-enforcements-warrior-problem/

    https://www.colorlines.com/articles/read-inside-warrior-policing-lessons-dave-grossman-teaches-police-officers

  56. John Paul Quintero

  57. If true this is very interesting:

    While the 1033 program’s intent may have been to equip specialized units for extreme, dangerous situations, fighting al-Qaeda sleeper cells, or powerful drug cartels, the effect has been to incorporate SWAT-style raids into ordinary police operations. That includes, but is certainly not limited to, the serving of search warrants. This may partly be because the program requires that all equipment issued through the 1033 program be used within one year of the date it is granted. That means that if police departments want to keep their new gear, they can’t wait for a rare emergency like an active shooter or hostage situation in order to use it

    https://www.vox.com/2014/8/14/6003239/police-militarization-in-ferguson

  58. The report I read indicated in the Wichita case they were responding to a 911 call where Quintero was threatening family members with a knife. The DA declined to prosecute. I don’t see too much more factually about it, but I only took a quick look.

  59. And his family have all said that he had been disarmed, and had been calmed down. And was no longer in possession of a knife.

  60. Amid worldwide protests against the police killing of George Floyd, activists around the US have raised demands for specific policy measures, such as defunding the police.

    Quite keen to see how Minneapolis gets on without a Police Force.

    https://twitter.com/Holbornlolz/status/1270016239167995904

  61. The reports I’m reading indicated he went for his waistband when he was shot and it looks to me like a close call situation. Unless I am missing something it was 2 officers who responded.

  62. In every one of these cases, the family says that the response was wrong, and that the person was a peaceful angel.

    We do not know.

  63. That’s the point I’m making. In no other country would this be a close call. The police escalated the situation, feared he had a weapon and now he is dead. If they had de-escalated it from the start then the individual, weapon or no weapon, would still be alive.

  64. The police responded to multiple 911 calls, including from the family, that described him as menacing people with a knife. Apparently when they got to the scene he went to his waistband and the officer in question feared he was going for a weapon. If he’d had a weapon and the offer ice hesitated it could have been a dead cop story. I can’t fault them on the facts I’ve seen thus far.

  65. People want ninjas with psychological and counseling degrees with superpowers that include mind reading and night vision. There is a difference between a tragic mistake and deliberate harming as in the Floyd case.

  66. Everyone has perfect knowledge, now.

    The cop didn’t have the benefit of that at the time.

  67. This is why tasers are often used

    But even when they are used, endless second guessing

    Should have done this, should have done that.

  68. And the same scenario could have happened everywhere else. Why are there not so many more dead cops in the UK, Ireland, France, Germany etc…?

  69. Your societies are less infested with guns

  70. He didn’t have a gun. There was never an inkling that he had a gun.

  71. I address the question that you asked.

    I would imagine that the vast majority of police that are murdered here are killed with guns.

  72. “I address the question that you asked.”

    Except you didn’t. It had been established that the man was at one time armed with a knife. There was never a suggestion that he had a gun. It is identical to situations that happen all over the world. And yet he dies in America, while he likely lives pretty much every where else. That isn’t the 2nd Amendment. That is shit policing.

  73. Why are there not so many more dead cops in the UK, Ireland, France, Germany etc…?

    Your societies are less infested with guns

    I wasn’t addressing the individual case. I was answering your question. Cheers.

  74. “I wasn’t addressing the individual case. I was answering your question. Cheers.”

    Except my question was in the context of the individual case. Why, when that individual case can be replicated all over the world, are there not more dead cops in those situations (given that deadly force was used to prevent dead cops)?

  75. I haven’t read all the way through yet…. I made it this far and was stopped dead in my tracks……

    Phantom, on June 8th, 2020 at 1:21 PM Said: Edit Comment
    This focusing on ” Democrats ” on this thing, 1n 2020, isn’t fooling anyone, any more than the ” Flynn wuz framed ” stuff is.

    You’re right Phantom except in the wrong way as usual it’s your denial of the Democrats Organization and involvement in all this that you may be blind to but has become the general perception of the last four months even after the last 4 years of their shenanigans.

    The entire shutdown all the pain and suffering the middleclass has endured the last 3 months and every riot, every death, every burned building is being laid at the democrats feet.

    When you have Bidens campaign staff bailing out the rioters you can deny it till the cows come home. The Democrat party has the entire blame for the lockdown and the riots were the insult added to injury…. allowing and encouraging mahem.

    And the Trump frame that you scoff at…. well the case building of prosecutions has continued just yesterday both McCabe and Rosenstein called each other liars under oath. The rats are all about to eat each other that’s the after lockdown show and belive me it’s coming full bore….

  76. Unless you’re from Sweden, almost every country was shutdown.

    Is England run by Joe Biden?

  77. Unless you’re from Sweden, almost every country was shutdown.

    Is England run by Joe Biden?

  78. Seamus – in the US the police are more likely to encounter a suspect with a weapon. At any time. The fact that a knife was reported doesn’t exclude the possibility he had a gun, or that he might have been reaching for one at the time. It was a split second decision that the cop had to make. It was thoroughly investigate by the DA.

  79. When someone insists everything is one party’s doing only (returning to lock down argument) you can pretty much realize they have little to offer.

  80. The entire shutdown all the pain and suffering the middleclass has endured the last 3 months

    Funny country America – Applying lockdown rules only to people of a certain class 🙂

  81. The middle class has not been hurt nearly as bad as the working poor. Of whom there are many here.

  82. Defund, Demilitarize, deball… the Police.

    The gum flapping of lunacy.

    There are over 350 Million perople in America, there are less 1 Million Cops.

    There are 700 Million Firearms in the hands of the Civilian population with only 60% legally owned the other 300 million firearms are in the hands of Felons. there 18,000 Homicides a year, total number of violent crimes 1.2 Million, 300,000 Robberies, 100,000 reported rapes and on and on and on.

    Each year the Police deal with over 10.3 Million arrests, each year in the process of that between 800 to 1000 people are killed, every year since it’s been recorded the race of the number one group killed is WHITE, most years it’s a pretty even twice as many whites than blacks.

    If you defund, demilitarize, and DEBALL the Police the cities will look like they’ve looked over the past ten days every weekend, and in some cities everyday…. The Animals will eat the civilians alive.

  83. They call it the thin blue line for a reason.

    If you want the Crips and Bloods to run everything, yes de-fund the police.

  84. The defund the police movement will be all roar and no bite. Local Politicians will pay lip service to some of it, but they are not going to seriously scrap or cripple the police services they need. Its a simplistic slogan that will stay as a slogan.

  85. But it is horrifyingly stupid that any politician would say any such thing

    Its as if ” this house is not tidy, therefore I will burn the entire neighborhood down ”

    Again, a great proposal for the Bloods and Crips and the other meth fentanyl and heroin dealers who would now evolve into warlords, controlling the neighborhoods, collecting taxes and dealing drugs with no restrictions at all.

  86. Yes, Snake Plissken time.

  87. If the police get defunded..

    Those guns are going to be needed more than ever.

  88. I thought he was dead.

  89. I have a friend in Belfast who’s married to a woman from San Francisco. I remember visiting at their home and she accepted me into the home and closed and locked the door once I entered . I asked her why she’d locked the door and she replied ‘habit’.

    What is it that makes the US such an inherently dangerous, violent place?

  90. Guns are one answer. I’m sure there are other reasons as well.

  91. Chicago is seriously dangerous going by the latest killing stats.

    Who is killing all those black people week in and week out?

  92. I lock my doors, even when I let the dog out. Habit.

    One day a few months ago, I looked out my bedroom window, and a man was standing in my back garden. I ran to the door and yelled out, and he yelled back “Police!” They were trying, and did, arrest a young man next door.

  93. I will at times go out for a short shopping walk without locking the door.

    I know people near here ( Yonkers, Woodlawn) who will leave the door unlocked for hours, if people are stopping by, etc.

    All my friends in Dublin and London have home alarms. Very many here do not. It’s hardly an armed camp here.

  94. Harri – you don’t know?

  95. According to the Forbes rankings the UK is rated more dangerous than the US.

  96. Except for murder…

  97. I’ve commented on this before. I’ve been to the states twice, (both times east coast), and found the fear of violent crime to be fairly palpable. As a matter of fact, I saw a noticeable difference in attitude across the border in Canada, (but that’s only based on empirical evidence)

    If you look at the ‘warrior policing’ link I put up earlier the guy doing the lecturing would have you believe that the US is a crime-ridden, murderous dystopia – he gives training seminars to cops….

  98. According to the Forbes rankings the UK is rated more dangerous than the US

    Perception is everything Mahons.

    I will concede as well that my comments above are based on what I observed when I was there and may well be incorrect perception.

  99. you don’t cross the Duke……

  100. Paul -it is funny but there are parts of New York that I know that would have some people nervous but I’m familiar with. There are parts I don’t know well that make me nervous.

  101. shoot wrong line…. fixed… screwed up cabbies line