39 1 min 12 mths

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A priest has been shot in Lyon by “un individu de type Méditerranéen”. It’s as if secularism has nothing to do with it. Meanwhile President Macron has done his job again, which is to assert the principles of the French Republic. Macron says that people are free to write, think and draw freely in his country. “It is a right. They are our freedoms.” It’s incredible how many are beginning to quibble at these genuinely liberal principles which brook no argument or qualification. If you’re quibbling even slightly then you are part of the problem.

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39 thoughts on “MACRON: “SHUT UP YOU BEARDED LOONS”

  1. If there is ever a law in France singling out Israel for specific protection from criticism it would be wrong but that does not negate the protection of the right to be critical of all religions and to include cartoons of historic religious figures.

  2. Colm, that’s the point Macron makes above. The link above demonstrates that that’s not the case though.

    Criticism of a state can be legally defined as being critical of a religion / ethnicity?

  3. A hatred of Israel is as close to anti-Semitic as to be indistinguishable.

    No-one hates any other country. You can not care for certain habits or features or characteristics of some place, but hating a country is an unknown except where Israel is concerned.

  4. A hatred of Israel is as close to anti-Semitic as to be indistinguishable

    How is that ‘hatred’ for a state defined?

    For someone who supposedly defends free speech you sure don’t seem to like free speech.

  5. colm why can’t we all get along
    yiddle-diddles, towel-heads, gammons and cheese-eating surrender monkeys
    lets just have a ball 😉 game ?

  6. Hating a country is not unknown. Hating the USA is definitely a thing among many radical organisations individuals and movements. However it shouldn’t be a crime to hate Israel or the USA , U.K. or any country. What people do can be a crime not people’s views.

  7. Paul

    I may be wrong but I don’t think Pete agrees with laws criminalising anti -Israeli or even anti Semitic speech.

  8. It’s your link so I assumed you were driving at that

    I’ll let you answer your own comments, Pete.

    A hatred of Israel is as close to anti-Semitic as to be indistinguishable

    So? How is that hatred defined?

    Colm, Pete has just stated that comments on Israel are equivalent to hatred.

  9. I said no such thing, Paul.

    I think the policy of expanding settlements in the West Bank is wrong for very many reasons. In fact I can’t think of a single justification. That’s not a hatred of Israel, that’s an opinion on Israeli government policy.

    See, “comments on Israel” are not equivalent to a hatred of Israel, but we all know where “I hate Israel” comes from and where the speaker wants it to lead.

  10. Pete, you’ve stated that ‘hatered of Israel’ is indistinguishable to anti Semitism, ie, hatred of Semites.

    Once again, please explain how this hatred is defined and while you’re at it how it equates to hatred of Semites.

    See, “comments on Israel” are not equivalent to a hatred of Israel

    So, what is then?

  11. Paul –

    I must hesitate because I’m a British liberal and therefore see things through that bottle top. Maybe if you look up “hate” in a dictionary that will help?

    If only there were some anti-Zionists in here who could give us the benefit of their perspective. Come on, Israel-haters, this site is edited by loony right wing fascist Trumpeteers. You won’t be cancelled. This is a free speech zone.

  12. The fact of the matter is that the only thing that can be done against Israel in France is to criticise it. That’s the only practical manifestation of the ‘hatred’ that you speak of, the same thing which equates to ‘hatred’ of Semites, (both things being indistinguishable, as you claim).

    As I said, for someone who supposedly champions free speech you sure seem to dislike it.

  13. France is clearly being singled out by the jihadist butchers, urged on by the usual suspects of islamist states, including Turkey and the Gulf States and Saudi, all of which are boycotting French goods.

    Erdogan is aggressively upping the ante all around him, including Syria, Greece and Lybia and most recently in the conflict between christian Armenia and Turkish Azerbaijan. Turkey has genocidal history with the Armenians. Someone needs to clip that bastard’s wings, and soon. Nato should make a start by kicking Turkey out. And a new US Administration should deploy the same sanctions as against Iran. Trump has shamefully toadied to Erdogan, partly to ensure his hotels in Turkey don’t get closed down and partly because of his general love of dictators everywhere.

  14. Paul

    Regarding free speech To be fair to Pete I don’t think he has ever demanded it’s restriction.

  15. Colm, he’s lauding the freedoms of free speech in a country which legally restricts it against specific groupings and is defending that legal restriction above by conjoining ‘hatred’ of a state with anti-Semitism.

  16. Paul

    I don’t think he is. Yes he is claiming ‘Hatred’of Israel is a veiled form of anti Semitism but I don’t think he has defended legal restrictions on expressions of any type of speech.

  17. Fair enough Colm. He hasn’t condemned them either.

    Which doesn’t detract from the central point that he’s lauding the freedoms of free speech in a country which legally restricts it against specific groupings.

  18. Paul

    Yes but the original claim made by Seamus on this thread was that France gives greater protection to speech against Jews than Muslims and that just isn’t true.

  19. Where is it illegal to criticize Israel? France? How?

    BTW The most ardent Critics of Israel can be Israelis themselves; or Jewish Americans, The majority of which would support the existence of a Jewish state but who criticize policies

  20. Where is it illegal to criticize Israel? France? How?

    Here:

    https://www.timesofisrael.com/french-lawmakers-pass-resolution-calling-israel-hatred-a-form-of-anti-semitism/

    BTW The most ardent Critics of Israel can be Israelis themselves; or Jewish Americans

    Maybe but that’s not the issue.

    Where is the French law that makes it a crime to criticise Israel ?

    Colm,

    The fact of the matter is that the only thing that can be done against Israel in France is to criticise it. That’s the only practical manifestation of the ‘hatred’ that you speak of

  21. //You can not care for certain habits or features or characteristics of some place, but hating a country is an unknown except where Israel is concerned.//

    What complete nonsense. Even if you restrict it to Britain, there were several cases where probably most people hated other countries, e.g. Germany in 1916.

    //A hatred of Israel is as close to anti-Semitic as to be indistinguishable.//

    Only for the cross-eyed like you.

  22. This is getting a bit cyclical here.

    So Phantom, same question to you as to Pete, what defines ‘hatred’ of Israel? Would organising a boycott of Israeli produce be ‘hatred’ of Israel?

  23. I don’t oppose boycotts of anyone, so long as it’s not done under pressure

    Boycott all day long if it suits

  24. I didn’t ask you your opinion on boycotts.

    What defines ‘hatred’ of Israel? Would organising a boycott of Israeli produce be ‘hatred’ of Israel?

  25. I’m not talking about that

    It’s not illegal to criticize Israel. Anywhere that I know of, including Israel

  26. “It’s not illegal to criticize Israel. Anywhere that I know of, including Israel.”

    In many places it is, if it is found that said criticism is over-the-top, disproportionate, uses comparisons to the Nazis, etc…

  27. //French people can criticize Israel all day long if they feel like it and not break any law//

    Not in the way they can criticise other countries. There are restrictions on criticism of Israel (or soon will be, I believe the law was passed last year but maybe hasn’t come into effect yet.)

  28. I’m not talking about that

    Of course you’re not. Why would you want to address the issues at the crux of the discussion?

    It’s not illegal to criticize Israel

    You’re hiding behind the ambiguities and vagaries of what ‘hatred’ is in order to cloak what the de facto practicalities of it are.

    The fact of the matter is that the only thing that can be done against Israel in France is to criticise it. That’s the only practical manifestation of the ‘hatred’ that you speak of

  29. Seem to be missing a Trump thread Colm what ya think ? Is this the quiet before the storm .
    For my money all the conspiracies have dried up .
    Trump is staring down the barrel of a shotgun .

    And Pete and pats handlers have given them the night off

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