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Ted Cruz bagged a damn nice Texas Buck….. and that upset Mr. Cleese.

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112 thoughts on “Just fun

  1. “Hunting is part of nature, every bit as much as all the rest of it.”

    I don’t recall in nature the Lion or the Tiger posing with their kill so they can show it off to their mates to prove how masculine they are and to forget for a moment how small their penis is. The hunting isn’t the issue. Killing of animals for food etc… is not an issue for me. Killing an animal for sport is. Killing an animal to make yourself feel good is. If Ted Cruz was just doing this to provide “many wonderful meals” then why did he feel the need to pose in a picture with it?

  2. Ted Cruz is a very naughty boy.

    Hunting is part of nature, every bit as much as all the rest of it.

    Hunting out of necessity and hunting for pleasure are two completely different beasts, though.

  3. that is a damn nice Buck

    and I’ve got a ton of great recipe’s on how to serve it.

  4. As a carnivore myself, it would be hypocritical of me to criticise Ted Cruz if he’s eating that animal. But I think posing for the picture is a bit tacky to say the least.

  5. no it’s common practice when deer hunting, especially with a trophy like that.

    Even by Tx standards that is a huge rack, only 8pts but the size of those tines are wonderful.

  6. Sad photo. Anyone with a heart would feel sorry for that unfortunate dumb beast.

    While the buck before him at least has much grace and beauty.

  7. “no it’s common practice when deer hunting, especially with a trophy like that.”

    I don’t think it matters if it is common practice or not. It is still a crass, unpleasant thing to do. As with Dave I am a meat eater (and pretty much a full born carnivore). I also just bought about £200 worth of venison to eat over the Christmas period. I have no issue with animals being killed for meat in an ethical manner. By posing with his “trophy” however Cruz has shown that it is not about killing an animal for meat in an ethical manner. It is about showing off, about increasing perceptions of his toughness and masculinity. And it is right that he is called out over it.

  8. yes it’s horribly unsporting to hunt our meat, sit in the cold wet woods tracking an animal to kill it…. all killing should be done humanely by shoving the animal into chute and killing it with a bolt gun to the head like cattle…. especially when it’s never shown how they kill the meat that’s in the supermarket.

    That Buck is a trophy kill, the meat will taste even better than anything bought in a store because it was killed and gutted by his own hand. A feast will be enjoyed dining under it’s mounted Head.

  9. “yes it’s horribly unsporting to hunt our meat, sit in the cold wet woods tracking an animal to kill it…. all killing should be done humanely by shoving the animal into chute and killing it with a bolt gun to the head like cattle…. especially when it’s never shown how they kill the meat that’s in the supermarket.”

    No one said that. You seem to have a habit of doing that Patrick. When you are losing an argument, which is most times you have an argument, a frequent tactic of yours is to argue against a point that no one actually made. Now everyone can decide for themselves whether it is that you have the reading comprehension of a four year old or if you are just being dishonest.

    As far as I can see on this thread (in terms of the arguments actually advanced by people) no one has criticised Ted Cruz for hunting the deer. People have criticised him for his small dick pic posing with it.

  10. But hunting’s not about food survival is it Pat? It’s about some warped idea of ‘sport’ and pleasure, isn’t it?

  11. There is significant overpopulation of deer as it is in a natural world that remains out of balance with too few predators since the fools killed many wolves.

    Banning trophy hunting would cause starvation and more disease.

  12. “Banning trophy hunting would cause starvation and more disease.”

    So have organised population culls, control the population etc… The idea that it requires the small dicks of the world to help is insane, or that it in anyway stops them being the small dicks of the world.

    As has been stated repeatedly on this thread there is no issue, from me certainly, on the killing of a deer for meat (or even for pest control). But then I’ve never seen anyone tweet a picture about how great it is that they killed a cow at an abattoir or caught a mouse. Because those things aren’t impressive, and neither is this.

    But there are a group of sad, pathetic individuals who need to kill to show big a man they are. That deer was killed not to provide food, or to prevent overpopulation. That deer was killed so that Ted Cruz could feel like a man.

  13. Phantom, on December 7th, 2020 at 5:43 PM Said:
    Cruz is the pride of Canada

    You take that back Phantom

    As for the hunting Phantom is correct, with out hunting periodic wide spread starvation would occur. The unfortunate thing is hunters do not follow strict darwinian rules as we take out the healthiest and strongest not the sick and the weak

    Pat the buck isn’t that big ,forced perspective is his friend

  14. So have organised population culls, control the population etc… The idea that it requires the small dicks of the world to help is insane, or that it in anyway stops them being the small dicks of the world

    So its bad to hunt them but its okay to shoot them and abandon them and waste them? You are wrong on this one issue Seamus

  15. “So its bad to hunt them but its okay to shoot them and abandon them and waste them? You are wrong on this one issue Seamus”

    No it is ok to hunt them. It is ok to eat them. It is not ok to hunt them purely for the pleasure of the kill, or to pose with the body afterwards.

  16. I knew someone would make the overpopulation argument. But that’s not what hunting’s about, is it? How is the overpopulation argument extrapolated onto geese, ducks etc?

    And besides, if there are bigger deer herds because they killed all the wolves surely the logical solution is to introduce more wolves.

    I really don’t think there’s that much of a difference between the motivation of Ted Cruz going deer hunting and Juan Carlos going elephant hunting.

  17. what argument is taking place let alone that I’m losing…….?

    I’m poking fun at a couple of you mamby pambies Oh I eat meat but hunting is cruel…..

    F’ing wussies…. grow a set get a gun go in the woods and kill something, the art of hunting is a wonderful form of relaxation. To sit and walk in nature, appreciate the beauty of the outdoors with the bonus taking home some good food and possibly a trophy worth bragging about…. sorry you may be arguing I’m expressing my appreciation for deer hunting. I’ve done it with a bow, pistol, shotgun, and rifle.

    Even when I didn’t get a deer they are some of the most enjoyable memories I have.

    Another whole segment of American culture you just don’t understand.

  18. Seamus

    As far as I can see on this thread (in terms of the arguments actually advanced by people) no one has criticised Ted Cruz for hunting the deer. People have criticised him for his small dick pic posing with it.

    Absolutely spot-on as usual Seamus.
    And just to clarify the point you’ve made, I’d much rather be shot in the head whilst I’m wondering around the forest, than be kept confined for a period of time, before being hung upside down and have my throat slit.
    The point I was making, is that Ted Cruz obviously has a small cock.

  19. Paul

    I really don’t think there’s that much of a difference between the motivation of Ted Cruz going deer hunting and Juan Carlos going elephant hunting.

    I suppose the main difference is whether or not Juan Carlos ate the elephant. 😁

  20. “F’ing wussies…. grow a set get a gun go in the woods and kill something, the art of hunting is a wonderful form of relaxation. To sit and walk in nature, appreciate the beauty of the outdoors with the bonus taking home some good food and possibly a trophy worth bragging about…. “

    Nothing worth bragging about. That is where you are massively wrong on this issue. Killing an animal that cannot defend itself, while sometimes necessary for a variety of issues, is never worth bragging about. That you think it is something worth bragging about is a sad reflection on you, your manhood and your general value system. Look at how great and brave Patrick is – he was able to kill something that can’t fight back.

    “The point I was making, is that Ted Cruz obviously has a small cock.”

    Absolutely. I don’t think that point is even debatable.

  21. So shooting deer for sport is good for the deer in the big picture, but it offends some people.

    What a world.

    It’s not my thing, but I don’t look down on a sporting hunter.

  22. “It’s not my thing, but I don’t look down on a sporting hunter.”

    I will, when they think that anyone should be impressed by it.

  23. Hunting and fishing for sport also can mean

    significant funds for conservation via state licence fees

    jobs in rural areas when hunters and fishermen visit ( hotels, restaurants etc )

  24. I’ll be impressed with people who Hunt animals, if the animals were also armed with guns.

  25. Sex tourism is huge for the economy in Thailand. In fact Thailand is in a state of near revolt because the money that sex tourism brings in is missing because of COVID-19. It still doesn’t change the fact that sex tourists are pathetic.

  26. The snow geese in northern Canada are literally damaging the tundra because of their over population and over grazing. There is essentially zero harvest control on snow geese because the government is desperate to lower their population

    the other problem with uncontrolled deer, elk and moose populations is the increase in vehicle strikes. I myself have killed more deer with cars then rifles, just last December I struck a deer it did $17,000.00 dollars damage and lead to my vehicle being written off. Some people have been killed by animal strikes and if you think hunting is bad imagine a deer its spine shattered but managing to drag itself into the bush to die slowly of internal injuries

    Plus the Europeans do not seem to understand, the deer are not confined to small parks and forests, they are literally everywhere. Some of the worst over populations are occurring in cities where hunting isn’t allowed

    PS thats a white tail deer and they aren’t noted for yarding up

  27. If you oppose deer hunting in north America, you’ve taken a detached urban position that is very much anti-the environment.

    The real world is not a Bambi film.

    Fewer people hunt now than in decades past, which is a problem. There should be more deer and elk hunting, as EP says.

    The animals aren’t offended by hunting, some people are.

  28. “if you think hunting is bad”

    I’m not saying hunting is bad. As I said I have bought a lot of venison to be eaten over the Christmas period. That was almost 100% certainly hunted, as I’m pretty sure deer is not farmed anywhere. I have no issue with hunting to control over population and to provide meat to market. I do have a problem with people who hunt for the pleasure of killing. There is not, in mindset, a huge difference, in my opinion, between those who kill animals for pleasure and those who kill humans for pleasure (including the penchant for trophy taking).

  29. Seamus that venison you bought was most likely farm raised and about as wild as any beef cow

    Very few people kill for the pleasure, some are subsistence hunters, some are trophy hunters some just like getting out in the winds

    Do you know what the worst part of killing an animal is? All the fun is over and the work(processing) begins

  30. F’ing wussies…. grow a set get a gun go in the woods and kill something, the art of hunting is a wonderful form of relaxation. To sit and walk in nature, appreciate the beauty of the outdoors with the bonus of taking home some good food and possibly a trophy worth bragging about…

    See that’s what I prefer, those who speak truthfully about why they hunt rather than all this rubbish about culling and overpopulation. People hunt for pleasure and with the possible exception of farmers, backwoodsmen, etc I can’t see any reason to kill much less taking pleasure in stalking and shooting a dumb animal. It’s not for me and no one here’s talking about banning it but at least be honest on the reasons for it.

    Bull fighting is seen by many here as noble and traditional, man against beast etc. No doubt the pro hunters here agree with it too?

  31. “Seamus that venison you bought was most likely farm raised and about as wild as any beef cow”

    Majority of the UK’s venison is wild, primarily as part of an annual cull in Scotland.

    “Very few people kill for the pleasure, some are subsistence hunters, some are trophy hunters some just like getting out in the winds”

    I would suggest that trophy hunting is killing for pleasure.

  32. “Its the hunting that is the pleasure not the killing”

    Then why the need to pose with the kill?

  33. I’ve seen a documentary about the Scottish cull, a bunch of rich douche bags pay a fortune to kill deer, They don’t process it, most don’t even get any meat, they truly do kill for the pleasure of killing

  34. “I’ve seen a documentary about the Scottish cull, a bunch of rich douche bags pay a fortune to kill deer, They don’t process it, most don’t even get any meat, they truly do kill for the pleasure of killing”

    That may be the case, and I would be opposed to that as well. It is however the source of the majority of the UK’s venison.

  35. Then why the need to pose with the kill?

    do you go on vacation and take photos? Do you really think you are the first person to take a photo appearing to hold up the Leaning Tower of Pisa?

    You can show your friends a picture and enter into a discussion of the hunt, you can’t show them a freezer with cut and wrapped meat and expect them to be interested in how you got it

  36. “do you go on vacation and take photos? Do you really think you are the first person to take a photo appearing to hold up the Leaning Tower of Pisa?”

    Yes, because I take them while actually on holiday. You say the pleasure is in the hunt, not the kill, yet the picture is of the kill, not the hunt. It would be like taking a photograph of Belfast International Airport after coming home.

    “You can show your friends a picture and enter into a discussion of the hunt, you can’t show them a freezer with cut and wrapped meat and expect them to be interested in how you got it”

    And you get pleasure from that discussion. Hence killing for pleasure. If it was about overpopulation, or meat, or pest control, then you wouldn’t even consider entering into a conversation with your friends. It is about showing off, not a public service.

  37. The only problem I have with hunting is the high fence hunters, they put up high fences and then basically tame the deer and breed them for the size of their horns. When “hunting” time comes they are basically lead by the nose to the “hunter” and summarily executed. Its a lot like the Scottish cull but with out the short hike through the Highlands

  38. It isn’t about the kill its about the time in the woods or plains, the time spent tracking and stalking. People literally take time off to go hunting the high lonesome. Not that I suspect Cruz did that, I assume it was some kind of guided hunt

  39. “It isn’t about the kill its about the time in the woods or plains, the time spent tracking and stalking. People literally take time off to go hunting the high lonesome. Not that I suspect Cruz did that, I assume it was some kind of guided hunt”

    But the picture is of the kill, not the woods, not the scenery etc… the picture is of the kill. It is the showing off, not the act itself, that I find objectionable.

  40. But the trophy hunting is a net plus for the ecosystem.

    And anything that helps the ecology shouldn’t be criticized that much.

    You don’t see much of this criticism from rural people.

    Donald Trump Jr. is a trophy hunter, and I don’t particularly care for him. But he actually spoke out against a new mine in Alaska that would harm the salmon runs. Some of the best environmental advocates are sportsmen.

  41. I think that if hunting deer (or foxes etc) served absolutely no practical purpose at all such as population control, and was only done for pleasure, I would have more of an issue with it. But if an activity both serves a purpose, and is also enjoyable (or can be turned into enjoyment without increasing the suffering of the prey) then it’s natural for people to take pleasure in such things.
    As for holding the carcass up for photos, I know nothing about deer hunting but assuming that it takes practise, isn’t easy to do and that there’s no guarantee of success, then I imagine that the trophy is held up for the same kind of reason that sportsmen/women hold trophies and spray champagne? Look at me, this was hard and it took training, determination and faith, and I did it!

  42. It’s pretty obvious from the comments here from the pro-hunting people that the principal attraction of the hunt is pleasure, either the pleasure of hunting, the kill, or the trophy collection. That’s okay, it’s not for me but if people admit that they get pleasure from hunting and/ or killing animals then maybe I can understand more the psychology behind it.

    As I said, similar arguments regarding art, pleasure, tradition, etc are made by the pro bullfighting lobby over here. For me, I can’t see the difference between deer hunting, duck hunting, elephant hunting or boar hunting.

  43. Colm,

    Oh Dear Oh Deer Oh Dear !

    What do you call a blind deer?
    No idea.
    What do you call a blind deer with no legs?
    Still no idea.

  44. Elephant hunting in some cases can be bad for the local natural environment

    Not so with most deer / goose / boar hunting in North America – which is a plus for the herd and for the larger ecosystem

  45. What do you call a blind deer?
    No idea.
    What do you call a blind deer with no legs?
    Still no idea.

    *Groan

    What do you call a sheep with no legs?
    A cloud
    What do you call a black sheep with no legs?
    A storm cloud.

    The point I make is that all the animal killing I speak of above Phantom seems to have a large element of pleasure in it.

  46. Exceptionally strange comment.

    I’ve never hunted.

    But I do know that it’s better to have more balance than no balance, better to have god’s creature taken this way than starve to death and/or spread disease.

    Some of us have way too urban/suburban view of this. Deer don’t talk in real life, hate to say.

    Deer aren’t offended at hunting, snowflakes are.

    Morality lessons on this can be listened to from true vegetarians, but their views while they may be consistent don’t add up either.

  47. Hmm maybe this analogy will work

    Hunting is not about the kill but about the hunt, but going hunting with out going for the kill is like climbing Mt. Everest with out trying for the peak. Sure its a nice hike but its really not the point

  48. lol
    Noel did a great thread , got 5 comments
    this BS windup thread is 52 comments
    says it all really !
    Yawn Zzzzzz

  49. Kurt we really aren’t here to entertain you or do your bidding, we comment how, where and why we want to

  50. Deer aren’t offended at hunting, snowflakes are

    I don’t think anyone here is ‘offended’ by hunting.

    EP, by the comments here it’s obvious that hunting is different things to different people, the hunt, the kill, and the trophy.

    The point I make is that it seems to have a large element of pleasure in it for the hunter, whatever the reason.

  51. its your story EP, tell it the way you want to
    lmao you just gave Pat a great giggle though
    he knows how to press your buttons
    he played a blinder and y’all fell for it ..
    that’s what’s happening ..

  52. since none of my comments are directed at Pat I think you are the one trying to play a blinder

  53. Deer aren’t offended at hunting, snowflakes are.

    As I said before, I don’t think anybody I’m here is offended at hunting.

    Morality lessons on this can be listened to from true vegetarians, but their views while they may be consistent don’t add up either.

    Says who? Your opinion is subjective Phantom, not factual. And vegetarians have different opinions.

  54. Nothing worth bragging about. That is where you are massively wrong on this issue. Killing an animal that cannot defend itself, while sometimes necessary for a variety of issues, is never worth bragging about. That you think it is something worth bragging about is a sad reflection on you, your manhood and your general value system. Look at how great and brave Patrick is – he was able to kill something that can’t fight back.

    Listen to the metrosexual….. lol Yes Seamus so tell me my guns are an extension of my dick.

    Look at the barbarian bragging about the slaughter of innocent Bambi… boo hoo. Hunting is an American tradition, something practiced freely here before it was even a country. It is also a skill. One that involves the mastery of several different disciplines and skills. The ability to track something in the wild is not something you just know. Neither are mastering the tools of the trade. To gain the accuracy to take a running animal with a bow or a pistol. Step into a thicket with a 44 revolver and go after a wild boar. Now with a shotgun or a rifle in my case you’re right it’s not a sport it’s just target practice which is why I went to a crossbow as my primary weapon the last ten years that I hunted.

    And bragging…. shoot son. It ain’t bragging. When you kill a trophy Animal you display it, for it’s honor and yours. Trophy’s don’t come everyday, and that buck above is a damn good highscoring Buck on Boone and Crocket. You see we compete at everything, and we keep score on everything. No participation trophy’s.

    Now if you feel that is something to look down upon well then you have lost more than I could ever explain to you and I feel pity for anyone who doesn’t understand competition.

    Hunting is a sport that you are not qualified to compete at, to you it’s just go out and shoot something, a very shallow and uninformed view Seamus. You should be ashamed!

  55. But it’s reasonably objective that hunting ( and allowing the return of predators like wolves ) are good for the herd and good for the plant and animal ecosystems

  56. Morality lessons on this can be listened to from true vegetarians

    Eh? Who wrote the rule that says if you eat meat you have to agree with people killing animals for pleasure?

    Besides, there seems to be only one person here speaking about offence and morality?

  57. Noel the story you suggested was great, it’s this audience that’s insane…. on oh so many levels, but that was definitely an excellent find.

    Next time take something like that cut a few sections out of it and write up your thoughts on those sections…. I’d post it, and everyone would read it.

  58. Phantom, on December 7th, 2020 at 9:12 PM Said: Edit Comment
    But it’s reasonably objective that hunting ( and allowing the return of predators like wolves ) are good for the herd and good for the plant and animal ecosystems

    The Wolf restoration program is a very important must.

  59. I was out walking my dog last week in a small sparsely wooded park close to my house when a fox ran out in front of us.

    It was the first time I’d seen a fox in an urban environment.

  60. Phantoms right coyote’s are in the east coast cities now and I don’t know about NYC but Philly has a huge deer population, and of course you can’t hunt them. During the fall and winter they avg 6 deer a day killed by car. It’s a bitch.

  61. maybe paul
    but if my oppo is greasing his tool
    I’m not gonna tickle his balls am I ?
    colm’s job that 😉

  62. hunting was needed before the invention of butchers and supermarkets
    there is something sad and pathetic about killing a magnificent buck
    when all ya got to do is pop down the shops and buy some food

  63. kurt, on December 8th, 2020 at 10:37 AM Said:
    hunting was needed before the invention of butchers and supermarkets
    there is something sad and pathetic about killing a magnificent buck
    when all ya got to do is pop down the shops and buy some food

    Agreed.

  64. //Hunting is fun, especially if you’re a friend of Dick Cheney.//

    Good.

    I always find it difficult to feel sorry for a hunter who gets hurt or killed.

    For a long time in Europe, the stag was seen as a kind of Jesus figure, who allows himself to be killed for the benefit of mankind.

    This wonderful and unique song (translated from Italian) tells it all

  65. The animal who is hunted lives a far better and more natural life than the pig or chicken that lives a short, miserable tortured life in the enclosed and crowded space of a factory farm

    The Hunter is far more kind to the animal , far more respectful to it, than the operators of factory farms.

  66. yeah that doesn’t really work phantom when we’re talking about a stag or a buck
    there is livestock, ( pigs , cattle, sheep, goats ) poultry and then these creatures and deer
    ( ofc hogs and bears )

  67. The Hunter is far more kind to the animal, far more respectful to it, than the operators of factory farms.

    But you aren’t comparing like with like. The factory farmer mass produces as efficiently as possible as a business venture. The hunter hunts and kills as a means of personal pleasure. Essentially the factory farmer has capitalised on a labour saving situation developed so humans don’t have to do exactly what the hunter is doing in order to eat.

    I doubt very much that a buck being killed by an arrow feels he is being treated more kindly or respected more than a cow being led into the slaughterhouse.

  68. The animal who is shot may well suffer, but perhaps only for a short time. Some will not suffer at all

    Factory farm animals suffer for a long time 24 hours a day.

  69. It seems the main issue people here have is not so much the act itself but rather the “mens rea”.

    Which is fair enough; intention is always a central aspect of assessing guilt either in morality or the law.

  70. As I say above, I doubt very much that a buck being killed by an arrow feels he is being treated more kindly or respected more than a cow being led into the slaughterhouse.The factory farmer process is to increase productivity in a business venture as a labour saving device so humans wouldn’t have to hunt to eat. The hunter does the thing that food farming was developed to nullify so you’re analogy isn’t a correct one.

    Noel, killing animals for pleasure isn’t for me and I don’t understand how anyone can take pleasure from killing a dumb brute. I’ve heard similar arguments re tradition, sport, man against beast, etc used for bullfighting here, surprisingly the pro hunting lobby here seem to have ignored such comments above.

  71. Phantom,

    But it’s reasonably objective that hunting ( and allowing the return of predators like wolves ) are good for the herd and good for the plant and animal ecosystems

    No phantom, it isn’t ‘objective’. Reasonably or otherwise.
    There are plenty of examples where hunting has caused problems for the ecosystem.
    Hunting certainly wasn’t good for the dodo.

    Factory farm animals suffer for a long time 24 hours a day.

    As I pointed out earlier in the post, I don’t disagree with that.
    However, a lot of meat in the UK, and certainly all the meat I buy from our farm shop butcher is not factory farmed. The animals from chickens to cows are all grass fed.
    Many of the supermarkets now by their meat from abroad, where factory farming is still allowed.

  72. I think it’s perfectly feasible to disagree with both factory farming and hunting / killing animals for pleasure or trophies.

  73. I’m speaking of hunting the overpopulated deer geese and elk in North America etc

    There should be more, not less of such hunting

    Hunting should be taught in high schools as an elective.

  74. I totally agree Paul.

    When I lived in Poland, people used to hunt wild boar in the forests just outside Warsaw. They hunted the animals for food and I certainly didn’t have a problem with this. (Except when me and my friend were walking through the forest and we’d hear them hunting with ak47s.) 😨

  75. I grow weary of the stupid on this thread

    For the last time hunting is not about the kill its about the hunt

    Many, many hunters go hunting with out killing anything despite opportunities

  76. I’m speaking of hunting for pleasure which much of the commentary above from actual hunters shows, much like bullfighting, that its main motivation is pleasure.

  77. Phantom,

    I’m speaking of hunting the overpopulated deer geese and elk in North America etc
    There should be more, not less of such hunting

    So mankind decides what’s best for the planet? When it comes to overpopulation maybe we should be looking at ourselves.

    I remember a trip to Scotland I made with my fiance many many years ago and we stopped off at the pub in Loch Awe. We got chatting to some friendly locals at the bar and one of them was a local gamekeeper. He told us it still broke his heart when he had to shoot a magnificent stag. He couldn’t understand why people would hunt for fun.
    I thought that was an interesting perspective for a gamekeeper to have. But I certainly agree with him.

  78. I grow weary of the stupid on this thread

    For the last time hunting is not about the kill its about the hunt

    What is it with north Americans that they seem to insist of arguing against something which isn’t the case?

    I’m speaking of hunting the overpopulated deer geese and elk in North America etc

    There is significant overpopulation of deer as it is in a natural world that remains out of balance with too few predators since the fools killed many wolves.

    Yes, more hunting to solve the problem caused by hunting makes perfect sense.

  79. Emerald Pimpernel,

    I grow weary of the stupid on this thread

    I’m not surprised, because despite the multiple times it’s been pointed out to you what people’s problem with hunting actually is, you still don’t seem to get it.

  80. So mankind decides what’s best for the planet? When it comes to overpopulation maybe we should be looking at ourselves.

    Man is as much a part of the natural world as are our fellow hunters the wolf and eagle are.

    Again, I think that half the problem is that the vast majority in the US and UK live in cities now. We’re generations out of touch with the natural world. Even in what are thought to be rural areas, many think that the source of meat is the refrigerated section of Tesco’s.

  81. //, killing animals for pleasure isn’t for me and I don’t understand how anyone can take pleasure from killing a dumb brute. //

    Paul, killing animals for pleasure isn’t for me either. I can’t see myself ever going out to hunt an animal. But I can well understand the attraction. It is a, as the animal is called “game”. You are going into the animal’s natural environment and chasing and killing it there. There is a chance it will escape; and the “game” requires you to disguise yourself, use stealth, have a good aim a steady hand etc. It’s clear that that’s a challenge and challenges like that are attractive for a lot of people.

    There’s also the psychological aspect of feeling proud, superior to the animal, the dominance people feel when killing or destroying. In many ways it isn’t much different from those rifle stalls at fairs etc where you shoot at cans etc.

    In many ways too, it’s like those “debates” people get into on ATW against a disadvantaged opponent. Maybe thrilling for one, pointless for anyone looking on from the outside.
    But I don’t want to go into all that yet again here 🙂

  82. Man is as much a part of the natural world as are our fellow hunters the wolf and eagle are.

    Yes that is completely true, but it doesn’t address the point I made, at all.
    Let me make it really clear. I was responding to your point that killing animals is sometimes a good thing. I agree it is sometimes a good thing, but it can also be a bad thing, such as wiping out an entire species. My point was, when it comes to helping the planet less humans would definitely be an improvement.

    many think that the source of meat is the refrigerated section of Tesco’s.

    To be fair phantom I think most people understand that meat comes from animals, not from a magic fridge. I think it’s a good thing that we don’t have to add hunting for meat, to our already busy lives.

  83. Paul, killing animals for pleasure isn’t for me either. I can’t see myself ever going out to hunt an animal. But I can well understand the attraction. It is a, as the animal is called “game”. You are going into the animal’s natural environment and chasing and killing it there. There is a chance it will escape; and the “game” requires you to disguise yourself, use stealth, have a good aim a steady hand etc. It’s clear that that’s a challenge and challenges like that are attractive for a lot of people.

    It would be a whole lot more challenging if the animal could shoot back though? All the things you mention above still don’t detract from the vast advantage the hunter has. I do agree about the psychological aspect though, hence my comments on the main aspect of hunting seeming to be pleasure.

    But I don’t want to go into all that yet again here 🙂

    Then why raise it here?

  84. Noel

    There’s also the psychological aspect of feeling proud, superior to the animal, the dominance people feel when killing or destroying. In many ways it isn’t much different from those rifle stalls at fairs etc where you shoot at cans etc.

    Except that in one case sentient animal dies, obviously.

  85. Dave that sentient being is going to die regardless

    If there is an overpopulation then they are put under pressure to move across roads where they are killed by cars, the lucky ones die quick the unlucky ones crawl into the bush and die over days because of internal injuries

    Where I live there are so many deer its impossible to drive 20 miles with out seeing a road kill and those are just the ones you see

    Also come winter and we get a lot of that many deer starve to death, more so if there is a over population

    The thrill in hunting is not the killing and even now many rely on hunting as a source of meat

  86. I’ve had discussions with animal lovers, who vehemently oppose ” evil hunting ” but who do eat meat but who get very uncomfortable if the subject of how their yummy chicken marsala came to be. You can’t change the subject fast enough.

  87. You can’t change the subject fast enough.

    Are you referring to people here or those animal lovers you’ve had discussions with?

  88. Others in real life

    Americans and Brits IMO generally have very little idea where their nice steak comes from and they are in no hurry to find out and the industry likes that just fine.

    In US states, they have passed laws against investigative journalism about what goes down in these farms

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ag-gag

  89. Okay, I thought it may have been a misprint.

    Having an uncle who managed a slaughterhouse I’m certainly under no illusions as to where meat comes from and those I’ve spoken with on such subjects aren’t either but I don’t see the correlation. Such logic dictates that because I disagree with whale hunting or seal clubbing I shouldn’t eat seafood or because I think bullfighting is barbaric I shouldn’t eat chilli con carne.

    As I say above, you aren’t comparing like with like.

  90. //All the things you mention above still don’t detract from the vast advantage the hunter has.//

    //Except that in one case sentient animal dies, obviously.//

    Of course, but I wasn’t talking about any of that. I was replying to Paul’s statement that he can’t understand the attraction of hunting.

    I think anywhere where there is a challenge, something requiring some degree of skill and where the person can possibly fail, will always attract many people.

    Another attraction is probably the “little dick” factor advanced by Seamus, but I don’t think that’s as strong as the challenge bit.

    You could maybe test it by, for example, seeing who still finds it exciting to shoot a herd of animals corralled in a ring. If someone finds that just as much fun, he’d be of the sadistic or dominance or little-dick persuasion. But I don’t think many would prefer that to going out into the country and stalking and hunting an animal.

  91. I think the ‘challenge’ is very much weighted in favour of one party, again, like bullfighting. However, it doesn’t detract that the central element of hunting is some form of pleasure.

    BTW Noel, my comment was I don’t understand how anyone can take pleasure from killing a dumb brute.

  92. //I think the ‘challenge’ is very much weighted in favour of one party,//

    The big disadvantage for the animal is that it doesn’t know the rules of engagement. If it did, it would win, and probably be able to kill the hunter, each time.

    //Hunting is part of nature, //

    In the same sense as murdering your neighbour is or anyone else competing for food.

  93. Do you eat meat and fish?

    Rarely but yes, I do. However, before you continue:

    I don’t see the correlation. Such logic dictates that because I disagree with whale hunting or seal clubbing I shouldn’t eat seafood or because I think bullfighting is barbaric I shouldn’t eat chilli con carne.

    The big disadvantage for the animal is that it doesn’t know the rules of engagement. If it did, it would win, and probably be able to kill the hunter, each time.

    Hemce my comment about not understanding getting pleasure from killing a dumb animal.

  94. I’m not really commenting on the motive of the Hunter

    It’s his thing

    I just point out the many positive things that come from responsible, environmentally conscious hunting

  95. The actual hunters above have made it very clear that their motive is pleasure.

    It’s not for me and while it might be for them, I disagree with it.

  96. My position is you have to give a one meter lead on your shot with a crossbow at 25 meters with a Buck on the run.

  97. How many meters would you give for a greased up Donald trump on the run at 50 metres ?
    And what adjustment would you make for the bone Spurs ? 😆

  98. Kurt, why would you give him a lead you know he can only run 5 metres any way just wait till he collapses

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