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NURSES UNIONS SHOULD BE ABOLISHED

By Pete Moore On March 5th, 2021

If I were a nurse I’d be embarrassed and ashamed tonight.

The health secretary has defended a proposed 1% pay increase for NHS workers in England this year, amid a backlash from unions […]

A nurses’ union has set up a fund to prepare for possible strike action.

And Unite – the third largest union in the NHS – said it is considering a strike ballot.

The Royal College of Nursing (RCN) has called the recommended 1% pay rise “pitiful”, arguing that its members should get 12.5% instead.

Oh aye, 12.5 per cent? Let’s consider the context.

The state is £2 trillion in debt. We are in the middle of the worst recession in 300 years. Hundreds of thousands of firms have gone bust. Millions have lost their jobs, are about to lose their jobs, or have lost large chunks of salary. Many thousands haven’t received any income for a year. The mental and psychological toll of shutting the productive economy to protect the NHS is incalculable.

Nurses have total job security and full pay packets, so their unions and representatives can absolutely do one.

Yes, they (some, not all) have been working jolly hard. Well so have everyone else, without demands that we be deified for doing so. The unions and nurses’ representatives, in these times, have miscalculated. The public in these times is not sympathetic to shameless political stunts. They should be told to be thankful that they can do the job they freely chose to do.

51 Responses to “NURSES UNIONS SHOULD BE ABOLISHED”

  1. The public in these times is not sympathetic to shameless political stunts.

    Indeed, like all the praise the Tories have heaped on NHS workers since the pandemic started. This pay offer shows just how hypocritical that was. Tens of billions have been squandered on non-tendered contracts with Tory crony-capitalists, but there is no money for a pay rise for people who have worked 60 hour weeks and in the first few months were exposed to the virus by a criminal lack of PPE. Many doctors and nurses paid with their lives.

    Same old Tories. Austerity is back and will be the main issue in the next election. Bring it on.

  2. “Many doctors and nurses paid with their lives.”

    The ones who sat it out at home because millions of consultations and operations were cancelled are alright. Do they deserve a pay rise, levied on the bereaved?

  3. I heard the (very) junior Health Minister Nadine Dorries this morning saying that the 1% “offer” was “what the country could afford”. Of course Nadine is not the sharpest tool in the box, but she is spouting what is taken to be economic orthodoxy. Because the “government is like a household” and “the government credit card is maxed out” beliefs are totally pervasive. And of course they are also total bullshit:

    “Yet one of the most influential and established bullshit tropes is just as well established in the UK as it is in the US: That the economy is analogous to a household budget. We still believe that, like a household, any money borrowed by the government must be paid back in the short to medium term or else lenders might stop advancing credit to the UK or “call in” their loans…

    One does not need to be an economist to see the problem: the state isn’t a household. It has far greater powers and an entirely different purpose. Unlike a household or business, it is almost impossible for the UK to go bankrupt because the UK controls its own currency. It can increase the amount of money in circulation to fund its own debt repayments. It can even borrow money from itself (a substantial percentage of UK government “debt” is held by the Bank of England). In theory, the UK’s money supply is not unlimited because “printing money” can ultimately lead to inflation. Governments, however, can and do create huge amounts of money without triggering an inflationary reaction. In 2020, for example, the Bank of England created £100 billion of new money, yet inflation remained at 0.8%. For this reason, investors are keen to buy government bonds even when state borrowing is high. In 2009, for example, the UK “deficit” (the difference between state debt and tax revenue) rocketed form 3% of GDP to around 10%. Investors, however, were so keen to “lend” the government more money that the interest rate on bonds dropped from 5% to 3.6%.

    The modern version of the “household” trope came from a 2010 paper by Harvard’s Carmen Reinhart and Kenneth Rogoff. They argued that state debt above a certain level creates a drag on economic growth. This was seized on by politicians at the time. The Cameron government based its “austerity” policies substantially on Reinhart and Rogoff’s conclusions. Just three years later, however, it emerged that Reinhart and Rogoff had made an error in their data. The International Monetary Fund has since rejected their findings and, to their credit, Reinhart and Rogoff have distanced themselves from policies based on their paper.

    UK governments and media, however, have singularly ignored the fact that the “household” model has been debunked and abandoned. There are, of course, rational political reasons for wanting to limit government borrowing. But these are based on ideological preference, not financial necessity…”

    https://www.politics.co.uk/comment/2021/03/02/bullsht-and-the-budget/

  4. Do they deserve a pay rise, levied on the bereaved?

    Why not go for an NHS pay cut Pete? You know you want to.

  5. All Unions should be permanently banned. They serve nothing but organized crime and communism…

  6. ” The government has no proper role in health care ”

    Fire them all, throw the low income sick in the gutter. That’s what the founding fathers of Britain would have wanted, whoever they are.

  7. Government doesn’t belong in Healthcare, Government doesn’t belong running ANY business and Healthcare is a Business and there is never a reason to throw your fellow man in the gutter you just lack faith in your fellow man and believe no one will help unless compelled…

    I’m the one with the black heart, but that’s cold Phantom.

  8. The government has a role in healthcare in every decent country in the world.

    And that’s generally a very good thing, not a bad thing.

  9. All Unions should be permanently banned.

    You mean like they are banned in all dictatorships like China and Myanmar and Saudi Arabia and Russia? You would like the Land of the Free to mimic those countries?

    You are a mouthpiece for the 1% like Bezos who hate unions because they force higher wages. Because you are in favour of lower wages and higher dividends. Because you are a useful fool mouthpiece of the bosses.

  10. The government has a role in healthcare in every decent country in the world.

    Exactly, but there is nothing decent about the GOP. Let’s keep reminding them of their support for the Capitol raiders on 6 January. We need to keep that in their faces every time they spout their bile:

    “Almost half of Republicans support rioters who stormed the US Capitol building on Wednesday, a new poll claims. Among Republicans who responded to the survey carried out by YouGov, some 45 per cent said they supported the rioters who scaled walls, overcame Capitol police, stormed Congress, smashed windows, and planted explosives.”

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-election-2020/republicans-congress-capitol-support-trump-b1783807.html

  11. “Why not go for an NHS pay cut Pete? You know you want to.”

    All sensible people would.

    The state sector has more job security, fewer hours, 7 per cent higher pay and vastly better pensions than those in the productive economy.

    The NHS – like all of the state sector – is much more fat than meat.

  12. Among Republicans who responded to the survey carried out by YouGov, some 45 per cent said they supported the rioters who scaled walls, overcame Capitol police, stormed Congress, smashed windows, and planted explosives.”

    “Planted explosives”?

    Oh do tell. That’s a new one. Explosives were planted outside the RNC on 5th January, but the FBI has been less than keen to talk about that.

  13. Doctors and nurses in London earn less than doctors and nurses in the US, despite the fact that the cost of living is way higher in London than in most of the US

    The wife of a friend was one of ( those evil ) managers that for some reasons large NHS hospitals insist on having.She took a similar job in Bermuda for twice the pay in a place with no income tax.

    Very many hospital staff in the UK and Ireland work really hard for a modest salary. They’d do anything to save you or keep you comfortable, Pete. And their work conditions have very often been brutal in the past year of the ” hoax flu that never hurt anyone “

  14. Phantom

    Pete Moore hates the NHS and would support its immediate abolition. There is no point trying to argue with him. It’s a visceral thing.

  15. I like to poke the bear every so often.

    These guys live in a fact free zone when it suits them.

    How are things?

  16. Belfast is looking forward to the end of lockdown in April. The vaccine roll-out is accelerating and all the Covid stats are improving by the day.

    What about NYC? It looks like Cuomo is finished.

  17. NYC looking up a bit. Stand by on that.

    Cuomo has fallen completely from grace. Apparently he was always a bully and a punk.

    His grave errors on nursing homes, followed by a kind of coverup has killed his reputation but good.

    His bullying of NY Assemblyman Kim opened the floodgates. I don’t see anyone defending him now.

  18. Cuomo is serving his third term as governer of NYS. I have never understood why the two term limit that applies to the POTUS should not also apply to governors and senators and house members. US politics would surely be a lot cleaner. Although it would need campaign finance reform as well.

    How could this reform be enacted? I know that Patrick is keen on it, so presumably there is a lot of support in the GOP. What about the Dems?

  19. I would support a two term limit, but I don’t see how it would make politics any cleaner.

    I think that it could make politics dirtier.

    Political paymasters like the dearly departed Sheldon Adelson could more easily influence politicians who were short timers, and who needed to think of the next job.

  20. Yes, you would also need campaign finance reform. Patrick is in favour of term limits but totally against any limits on campaign finance. So I’m not sure how that corruption circle can be broken.

  21. Phantom doesn’t realize the only person more fact free than him IS Peter….

    Peter Unions, are Communism, but your cult of global warming are also commies so to of course they seem to be a good thing. At one point in history they were absolutely necessary. Then they grew into nothing but money laundering operations for organized crime and politicians(same thing). They supported the destruction of the jobs of the very people they were supposed to represent, and they caused millions of jobs to be lost by out pricing their worth.

    Union organizers and Union bosses, are scum that just want dues money for bribes and the political favor those bribes buy. They care nothing for the individual worker.

  22. The only possible way to make politics cleaner is to make politicians less powerful over our lives and money.

    A long time ago Lord Acton pointed out that power corrupts. Diminish the power and you diminish the corruption. It’s so obvious that only a statist could miss the obvious.

  23. You break the corruption circle on open finance Peter with full and instantaneous transparency of every candidates finances.

    No need for PACs so no one can hide donations by laundering it through a PAC. Each and every dime of a candidates campaign finances should be on line and open to the public… no limits in donation.

    If dow chemical wants to Congressman Smith 100 million god bless, but every person also knows he belongs to DOW.

  24. Pete Moore, on March 5th, 2021 at 10:15 PM Said: Edit Comment
    The only possible way to make politics cleaner is to make politicians less powerful over our lives and money.

    You passing out guns ? If not how is you propose to wrench that power from the hands who now posses it?

  25. No.

  26. you do know that in HR1 that our Hose just Passed it is the PUBLIC THE TAXPAYER who will now pay for 2/3rds of any incumbents campaign costs with taxpayer funds.

    So there ya go they just solved the issue they’re just gonna write treasury checks to pay for their campaign adds.

  27. No What?

  28. PVR –

    “You passing out guns ? If not how is you propose to wrench that power from the hands who now posses it?”

    I once advocated that Republicans vote for The Great Ron Paul. You knew better and have ended up with Obama and Biden.

  29. You totally supported a gentleman kook and switched gears to supporting a corrupt imbecile.

    Who will it be next.

  30. “Who will it be next.”

    You vote for Marxists and Democrats. Don’t question others.

  31. Peter Unions, are Communism, but your cult of global warming are also commies so to of course they seem to be a good thing. At one point in history they were absolutely necessary.

    Patrick

    Unions are necessary for the simple reason that there is always a power imbalance between employer and employee. In small businesses that may not matter so much because there will usually be a personal bond of loyalty cutting both ways. But in large businesses like Amazon the absence of unions enables Bezos to get away with minimum wage for 75% and monitored bathroom breaks for all. You are on the side of billionaire Bezos against his employees, so you are also on the side of low wages and hire and fire. So own up to it and quit whinging about Commies.

  32. I once advocated that Republicans vote for The Great Ron Paul. You knew better and have ended up with Obama and Biden.

    Extraordinary that Trump is missed out between Obama and Biden. LOL

  33. Bull…. F’ng commie pinkos, grifters, just plain crooks, and slackers….

    If your worth hiring you’ll do better negotiating for yourself…

  34. Yes, a cashier in South Dakota is in an equal bargaining position with WalMart.

    Everyone knows that.

  35. If your worth hiring you’ll do better negotiating for yourself…

    Good luck with that at Amazon or Walmart or KFC. It’s $8 minimum wage, which you want to abolish anyway, so it could be $1 an hour if your guys get their way. And you would no doubt claim that’s good for the US economy, that’s the “free market” at work.

    But did I get it right that at CPAC lst week some “conservatives” like Hawley proposed a minimum wage of $15 per hour for employees of big corporations? Or was he just trying to sink Bezos? Or was it a Commie mirage at CPAC?

  36. yes yes yes…. look at what you two have said…. ok now let spell out the facts of life…

    Certain jobs aren’t worth more than a student wage. You are not supposed to be able to support a family on them. They are minimum wage jobs because they are minimum jobs that anyone can do.

    A cashier at a grocery store or a stock person isn’t supposed to be a carreeer it’s supposed to be a job for a kid or a person whose significant other has the real job and it’s supplemental THAT’S IT…

    There used to be a Huge Super Market chain called Acme, back in the 70s the UNION had managed to get the starting pay to $10 an hour, for a clerk and $20 an hour for Butcher’s clerks. Acme since the 70s went from the number one market to almost nonexistent today.

    Each Contract negotiation they pushed for a raise or a strike, and the tactic works they raise your pay because no business can exist with people marching in front of it with signs and not doing their jobs.

    Now the problem… the grocery store business operates off of a 1.5-3% Profit margin. If a Grocery store makes 2 cents profit off of every dollar that passes through it it’s bonuses for everyone, but no matter what an owner does that profit window doesn’t change. It was the same in the 70s as it is now 1.5-3% all operating expenses come out of those 2 cents average.

    The cost of the store personnel is allotted a specific amount of those operating costs. IT IS A FIXED AMOUNT. A locked percentage of the operating cost. At $7 an hour I can have a work force of 30 people. Raise that to $14 an hour and my profit margin hasn’t changed but my cost has. I have to make cuts somewhere, or raise prices to make up the difference. You can’t raise the price of a box a cerial or a bottle of milk to cover the cost of constant escalating labor costs. 1st thing you do is go from 30 people to 25 to cover the rise in cost, then 20, then 15 so now the Union Raise has cost 15 people their jobs, but those other 15 are making more money 15 others are out of work. Now the Union still push for more money and get it. Well I can’t operate the store with less than 15 people, but my profit margin hasn’t changed, but they still forced another raise out of me… ok now to stay in my margin and have enough people I have to cut employee hours. Everyone becomes part time. You got your raise but you lost hours so you make more an hour but still take home the same. Then the next pay raise, I have to cut benefits, so you got the money, but now you don’t have healthcare and this exchange continues until one of two things happen. You either go out of business or if you can you move your company to an area where the Labor fit’s in your profit margin. The Steel industry’s history is the Later.

    Unions in the early 20th century were necessary to make working conditions safe. They evolved into an extortion business nothing more. They cost jobs they don’t create them or make them “Livable Waged” When you go from 3 people working for a reasonable wage, make that wage unreasonable and 2 of those people get laid off. So now that one person is making a great salary, but those other 2 are out of work…. did the Union serve a good purpose?

  37. Patrick

    Some fair points there. Obviously if the minimum wage is set too high it will destroy jobs. But of course you don’t believe that there should be a minimum wage set at any level.

    But would you agree that wages at Amazon are too low because a third of its full time staff are claiming food stamps while Bezos gets richer by the billion each year? If ever staff needed a union surely the staff at Amazon do. But just like at Walmart and KFC there are no unions at Amazon.

    One thing that needs federal legislation is so-called non-compete clauses in employment contracts. These prevent employees of say Walmart leaving to work for a competing business in the same area. And of course by restricting free movement of labour the effect of those clauses is to keep wages down. They are illegal in some states but legal in most “conservative” states, so I guess you’re cool with them?

  38. I believe if you want to work for any company you by taking the job agree to work for the rate they hire you at. If you are looking for a job to support a family you don’t take a minimum wage job.

    If that is ALL you can get because A) You have no Training, B) there are no other jobs in your area you have two choices. 1) Get Training, 2) Drive to where the better jobs are or move.

    Just because a person is only qualified for a minimum pay job is NOT the Employers fault.

    Amazon has 1000 jobs at $7 an hour, or it can pay 500 people $14 an hour and they can do twice the work, but the amount of money to pay employees is a fixed amount.

    If you are a person that has reached a stage in your life where you are building a family, but you have no ability to make more than minimum wage…. you shouldn’t be building a family.

    It is not the Employers job to give an unskilled worker enough money to raise a family, it is the workers duty to LEARN SKILLS that pay enough to raise a family. If you are so stupid that you think you can raise a family on minimum wage that is your Parents fault and your own.

  39. the amount of money to pay employees is a fixed amount.

    You are either totally brainwashed by Bezos or you are a total fool. Amazon makes billions every month so there is no way that its payroll cost is “a fixed amount”. It could double its hourly pay rates and it would still make billions for Bezos every year.

    But you have drunk deeply on the Fox Neoliberal koolaid which decrees that billionaires are good for society and we should let them pay as little as possible in wages (the lower the better) and as little as possible in taxes. In fact we should abolish the minimum wage and set the billionaire tax rate to 0%. Because of “trickle-down” or some other fairy-dust shit.

  40. One thing that needs federal legislation is so-called non-compete clauses in employment contracts. These prevent employees of say Walmart leaving to work for a competing business in the same area. And of course by restricting free movement of labour the effect of those clauses is to keep wages down. They are illegal in some states but legal in most “conservative” states, so I guess you’re cool with them?

    Any answer on this Patrick?

  41. Non-Compete only applies to skilled jobs and only certain positions. I know because I’ve worked both with them and without them. They are not a problem for low level workers in any field and if you’re a chemical engineer for DOW no you should not be able to quit and the go be a chemical engineer for Smith Kline.

    It does not prevent a Walmart clerk from going to clerk at Kmart or Target.

    What needs to be passed on a Federal Level is The Right to Work Law, which stops UNIONS from blocking anyone a getting a job without paying them bribe money out of EVERY paycheck.

  42. Non-Compete only applies to skilled jobs and only certain positions… It does not prevent a Walmart clerk from going to clerk at Kmart or Target.

    No, you’re wrong:

    “In particular, state attorneys general have aggressively pursued actions against fast-food restaurants and other national chains for their use of non-compete provisions with their more rank and file employees. For example, Illinois filed a lawsuit against Jimmy John’s for “imposing highly restrictive non-compete agreements on all its employees.” Likewise, the state of Washington launched a “Worker Protection Initiative,” through which the attorney general litigated to eliminate no-poach clauses in franchise agreements as well as the use of non-compete agreements by a Seattle-area coffee chain that prevented employees from working at any competing coffee shop in all of northwest Washington.”

    https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=28b261cd-76b3-4585-947e-059ed376e7fc

  43. Good job Peter

    The Jimmy John’s sandwich joint noncompete was particularly laughable, and was the subject of much discussion here at the time

    When the bosses have all the power, they will do stuff like this all the time

  44. Patrick wants the bosses to have all the power. He has made that clear many times.

    And he’s totally cool with non-compete clauses for baristas.

  45. Yes

    His opinion is almost always to bend the knee to the rich and powerful

    Pete is Sometimes even worse

    This is very hard for anyone to understand

  46. I bow down to no man, job, or Union… you act like negotiating for yourself and not expecting others to do it for you like it’s a give or gift to the rich or those in power….

    You stand before some manager or hiring team as they say the Job Pays 70k and you smile and say I wouldn’t consider the job for less than 90K and see if they act like you are “bending knee”….

    I have skills.

  47. Patrick

    Can you answer my 8.36 PM?

  48. Peter I honestly never heard of a non-compete on that employment level. And not sure of your question, but I would support no one working for ANY company that has such a Provision for non-skilled labor…..

    How Jimmy Johns slices their Hoagie rolls, or chops their lettuce is not a trade secret to be hidden if someone quits to get a dollar an hour more at subway…. it’s dumb and they won’t win in court saying it does…..

    does that answer or please ask more specific please Peter.

  49. Yes Patrick

    Non-compete clauses operate as an employers’ cartel to keep wages down. They have spread like wildfire in the US and are part of the reason that wages have stagnated for decades. In the UK the courts have generally refused to enforce them on grounds that they restrain trade and competition.

  50. In the industries that I’ve worked I’ve only seen them on the skilled level. To apply such a clause to Labor is stupid for the multiple reasons I’ve given above.

  51. Even at skilled level it gets abused. The biggest offenders in this are in Silicon Valley. Big Tech does not compete for talent with Big Tech. Or at least it tries not to. In that market it’s not just wages that are restrained, it’s also innovation.