33 1 min 14 yrs

unionism%20decayed%201.jpgHey – listen up, I’m introducing advertising onto ATW’s ever-so-clean boards.

Well, advertising for "Unionism Decayed 1997 -2007" that is! I hope you picked up on the fact that this, my first book, is now for sale and could be winging its way towards you if you simply email me at the editor’s address!

Remember it is a mere £9.99 (plus p&p) if you live in the UK. It’s €12.99 (plus p&p) if you live in Euroland, and it’s $14.99 (plus p&p) if you live in God’s own country!

This is the first book which unambiguously dissents from the Northern Ireland peace process. It provides context for the more global war on terrorism and is a warning against ever replicating this vile corruption and appeasement.

Click to rate this post!
[Total: 0 Average: 0]

33 thoughts on “A COMMERCIAL BREAK!

  1. I hope it isn’t written trole style? Truthfully I bought the book solely to support the fact that you wrote it and I comment here, no other reason. I do not agree with most of your politics, the least we can expect as readers not only of your book, but of your site is legibility.

    If your writers cannot provide that why should I buy a further book by the ATW writers. Is trole one of them?

    In the name of Jesus David look what you are contributing to the world of ideas:

    ‘Such a good Irish mum ya are, have you taught your kids to make bombs to blow up other children telling them all the while that don’t worry honey if you get caught you can always run for office in NI.’

    He got that from you. Everybody in office in Northern Ireland is a terrorist. Is that the contribution you want to make, or be noted for?

    Why in God’s name do you tolerate posts that are indecipherable. If your book is written like that is there a returns policy?

  2. David

    I will order a copy today. Good luck with the book.

    Last night I read a review by David Trimble of Jonathan Powell’s book. Trimble lays into Powell, but he also states that the IRA Shinner leadership made a conscious decision around 2002 to shaft his party on decommissioning in order to deal with the DUP.

    He also says that the "back channel" communication between the Shinners and the DUP may have been open for much longer than anyone realises. Of course the DUP deny that it ever existed, but they would, wouldn’t they?

  3. Peter

    Shinner leadership made a conscious decision around 2002 to shaft his party on decommissioning in order to deal with the DUP

    That’s true and they were right. Sinn Fein knew they could deliver and they knew the DUP could deliver. Trimble has earned his place in history but his party was a shambles.

  4. For anyone who watched under cover diplomat – it is clear there were back channels. Infact Powell was undercover in West Belfast and Derry. He said Martin McGuinness phoned and wanted to talk. Excellent show, with all the main participants interviewed – including Blair who confirmed the Adams and McGuinness scenario skateboarding with the children in the back garden of number 10.

    What an achievement that it was eventually all pulled together. It’s true there were concessions to SF due to the threat of violence, but the needs of all had to be taken into consideration.

    I see Powell also confirms Moloneys account of Paisley and Blair and the religious texts. The little one on ones they had. Their private discussions on religion.

    Robinson and Dodds will be good successors for the DUP, together they compliment both strands of the party, the modernisers and the church going traditional side.

    Now maybe they can get down to bread and butter issues and do the job they were elected to do.

  5. Cait –

    It’s true there were concessions to SF due to the threat of violence, but the needs of all had to be taken into consideration.

    Yes, voters needed to put SF them into government, or they needed to carry on killing.

  6. ‘Yes, voters needed to put SF them into government, or they needed to carry on killing’

    I’d say it’s pretty clear that threat was floated. There was of course the threat faced by Adams and McGuinness of a split in republican ranks, so it was in no way an empty threat, but I’d agree it was used to wring as many concessions as possible out of the British.

    But then again Pete that is what they were there for to get as much for those who supported them as they could. The decommissioning issue nearly broke this thing in two – and if you listened to Blair last night, he said that. He noted what republicans were leaving behind. The whole armed struggle that was central to many republicans was given up along with those guns.

    They gave up as much as they got imo.

  7. Cait –

    So you’re quite happy for the prospect of mass murder to be held out unless political power is a given. Can we all use that method, or is it available only to Mugabe and the IRA?

    I shouldn’t be surprised at the moral depths to which some people in NI have sunk, but genuinely I am. You have a rotten gangster government half filled with convicted terrorists, on the other side are those sworn to defend the law, liberty and the union only until the pay and perks are offered, and you’re sweet with it because you pretend you have peace.

    You have a banana state built on lies and deception – the peoples’ as much as the politicans’ and killers’. No-one signed the GFA and are therefore not bound by it, as if we could trust any of them to stick to a promise anyway. The gangster half of your government remains an armed threat to the life and liberty of all in NI. The guns and bombs are buried for as long as the British government and Unionists cave in to their threats. What do you think the point of the Real IRA or the Continuity IRA or the I-can’t-believe-it’s-not-the-IRA is?

    These aren’t splinter groups or republican rivals or refusniks – these are the same old mates of one half of the NI government pretending to be something else. If the capitulation to terror stalls, up they pop to nudge it along.

    Putting armed killers into government does not constitute peace nor does it amount to the rule of law.

  8. Good luck with it. Writing a book takes discipline, and its impressive that you’ve been able to do that while doing the rest of that voodoo that you do!

    Thats’s one scary looking cover though.Who created it?

  9. >>If the capitulation to terror stalls, up they pop to nudge it along.<<

    Nonsense. Nobody wants it all to fail more than they and people like you and David.

    >>You have a banana state built on lies and deception <<

    Well, at least you now recognise the folly of Northern Ireland !

  10. ‘So you’re quite happy for the prospect of mass murder to be held out unless political power is a given. Can we all use that method, or is it available only to Mugabe and the IRA?’

    Don’t forget Al-=Q whom the British government would engage with no problems Peter but no Peter I did not say that I’m happy with everything. Is anyone?

    I said it was pretty clear the threat was floated, and used to get concessions from the British. The British knew up front who they were dealing with – no surprises there, where was their morality? Where was their morality in shoot to kill? Or in the use of agents who murdered by proxy?

    ‘I shouldn’t be surprised at the moral depths to which some people in NI have sunk, but genuinely I am. You have a rotten gangster government half filled with convicted terrorists, on the other side are those sworn to defend the law, liberty and the union only until the pay and perks are offered, and you’re sweet with it because you pretend you have peace.’

    Are you saying the only ex terrorists are on the republican side. You haven’t forgotten the PUP’s roots have you, or Paisleys brush with Ulster Resistance, or Peter Robinsons photo with his red beret on? Or Paisley’s imprisonment? Indeed with another FP minister the Rev Ivan Foster, didn’t they share a cell together? But lets move on….

    Lets talk about peace. In your view is peace wrong? In your view is an armistice better than war? In your view is anything better than what we had on the streets here?

    Who do you make peace with Pete? Do you make peace with your friends or your enemies? Exactly how do governments negotiate peace unless there is a mechanism or back channel to discuss things with extremists. These back channels will be used with Al-Q, just watch undercover diplomat and listen to Powell.

    ‘You have a banana state built on lies and deception’

    Since partition most people have thought that, but I am surprised you agree with them, I thought what we had was a devolved government granted by the westminister government?

    ‘The gangster half of your government remains an armed threat to the life and liberty of all in NI’
    That is not the case Pete, only two days ago we had Adams saying the IRA will not come back. If there is a threat from them I suggest you show the evidence for it, I know many unionists and nationalists would like to see it.

    ‘The guns and bombs are buried for as long as the British government and Unionists cave in to their threats.’

    The British Govt in Westminister paid the IICOD to make sure the arms were put beyond use, I would suspect they made sure that was the case, if not that is their fault. Lets see your justification for your claim.

    ‘What do you think the point of the Real IRA or the Continuity IRA or the I-can’t-believe-it’s-not-the-IRA is?’

    Even they are realising that physical force will achieve nothing. They are being side lined in their communities.

    ‘These aren’t splinter groups or republican rivals or refusniks – these are the same old mates of one half of the NI government pretending to be something else. If the capitulation to terror stalls, up they pop to nudge it along.’

    It hasn’t stalled again Pete, once Policing and Justice are devolved, and make no mistake they will be devolved, otherwise devoloution is a two legged stool, then the peace ‘process’ is finished. Complete. There is no danger of it stalling now.

    ‘Putting armed killers into government does not constitute peace nor does it amount to the rule of law.’

    Not according to your Westminister govt, who not only countenanced it but did their level best to ensure it happened. Peace, the absence of conflict, is not evil Pete. No one has argued against it, except David – and those ex terrorists in government won’t always be there. Right usually asserts its self in the end.

  11. Cait: "I hope it isn’t written trole style? "

    I know you’re preoccupied trying to run Troll out of town but please onsider giving it a rest.

    I won’t beat around the bush. Bullying of any kind makes my hair stand on end; and you are bullying. Just like with the other writer you recently ran out of town.

    Many sites just delete the bullying posts. But fortunately ATW still has a very liberal (in the classic sense) policy in this regard. But, I think that it is time that YOU rethink your priorities and your motivations.

    Surely God put you here on earth for reasons other than bullying?

    Even with misspells, Troll usually makes more sense than you.

  12. Patty use your brain cell, now my comments were directed to David Vance since when did you morph into him.

    Have you ever seen a post on guido fawkes/iain dale/slugger o’toole/ etc etc etc written like that? NO. I’m unable to dicipher what he says.It’s like a code. I read quickly and post quickly, I am doing other things on the internet other than ATW, as most others I’m sure. All I’m asking is a spell check, nothing more.

    Now no one is bullying trole, but neither will I be bullied, I will comment on what I see before me. No one asks for perfection, least of all me, but either DV is running a political blog or a comical one. A spell check is all it would take.

    That is my last word on the subject. Now go play with someone else.

  13. Since this thread is so serious, I think it might be time to point out that either there are two David Vances, or David has been not entirely truthful on some points. Go to amazon.com and search for David Vance, as I did earlier. Strangely, his current book does not show up (search for David Vance Unionism Decayed to find it). Instead it seems that Mr Vance enjoys taking photographs.

    Just kidding David. Looking forward to reading YOUR book.

  14. Cait –

    You seem to believe that I support the British government or some of the Unionist goons in Stormont. If so, you couldn’t be more wrong. As for shoot-to-kill, prxy agents etc, some things the British state did were right, some were wrong and immoral, but this isn’t the thread for going into them all. Simply, your assumptions of what I believe seem to be in error.

    Of course the British government would treat with al-Qaida. This government would have treated with Adolf Hitler. Neville Chamberlain was an honourable man by comparison.

    Lets talk about peace. In your view is peace wrong?

    You do not have peace. You cannot have peace with terrorists governing you. To people like you ‘peace’ is a mantra which has blinded you to reality. The IRA declared nothing more than a hudna – a temporary ceasefire for political advantage. When it suits them to resume killing, they will do so again. When that happens they will be an even more evil and dangerous enemy because they know that British governments can be bombed into surrender.

    There is only one way to defeat terrorism, and I mean ‘defeat’, not treat with, compromise with or surrender to. It’s the certain knowledge in the mind of the potential terrorist that he will lose. It’s the certain knowledge in his mind that no matter what he does, he will not gain a single advantage by terror.

    Sure, it’s the longer road, the harder one which makes moral demands of those who take it, but it’s the only one which defeats terror.

    The reason why terror exists is because the governments of law-governed nations give in to it. They always do, so terror will always exist.

  15. ‘You cannot have peace with terrorists governing you.’

    We do not have terrorists governing us. We have a four party devolved assembly with a few ex terrorists in there, and yes I do wish that were not so, but they will be replaced. Infact let me tell you this. Up until very recently no one could have convinced me that SF were true democrats, but all in all from listening to people I believe they truly want to be. People have said to me that they are listening. Listening and trying hard to get their people what they need. At times they are getting it wrong, but I truly believe that they are listening and trying to do things democratically.

    ‘When it suits them to resume killing, they will do so again.’ No Pete. I invite you to come to NI and see for yourself. Sure there is still sectarianism, sure there is still many problems from our past, only last night a paramilitary style punishment shooting, but this sort of justice will be stamped out, and eventually the rule of law will prevail. It’s the old mantra of giving peace a chance.

    ‘There is only one way to defeat terrorism, and I mean ‘defeat’, not treat with, compromise with or
    surrender to.’

    Do you mean kill all terrorists Pete? How would you do it? Go in to republican areas and drag people out and line them up against a wall and shoot them? And what if your intelligence is wrong and you shoot the wrong people? Just go in and look for another batch.

    I really do wish someone would define for me ‘kill all terrorists’. Lay it out how to go about that. It’s one thing catching someone in the act, quite another for the state to jump in there first.

    ‘It’s the certain knowledge in his mind that no matter what he does, he will not gain a single advantage by terror.’

    What if his demands are just?

    ‘The reason why terror exists is because the governments of law-governed nations give in to it. They always do, so terror will always exist.’

    I don’t think its so simple Pete. Your definition doesn’t take in state terror for example.

    .

  16. ">>You have a banana state built on lies and deception <<"

    "Well, at least you now recognise the folly of Northern Ireland !"

    Damn it, Noel! You got there before me.

  17. Cait –

    Pretending to be dim or making things up isn’t attractive. I told you what it takes to defeat terrorism. Don’t respond to points I didn’t make, don’t pretend I said ‘kill all terrorists’ and don’t pretend I advocated extra-judicial killings.

    What if his demands are just?

    If he cannot encourage popular support, tough. Does this genuinely need explaining to you? My demands are just and my government digusts and embarrasses me, so when am I allowed to resort to killing my way to what I want?

  18. Right – time for me to make a few things clear here.

    1. I have great respect for Troll (and Monica) and am irritated at the constant slanging of his spelling by Cait. I’m telling you now Cait – stop it.

    2. There IS no sale or return on my book, or on the forthcoming ATW book, or on the one I plan to bring out next year entitled "Patience of a Saint (How I learned to love blogging and stop living) Anybody who isn’t happy just let me know and I will refund monies before books are sent out.

    3. The essence of blogging lies in making interesting points and enabling discussion. The discussion should not deteriorate into shabby name-calling and point scoring, on any side. If one seeks grammatical exactitudes then go read a dictionary.

    4. Pete Moore is absolutely right. Northern Ireland has an Assembly stuffed with IRA mafiosa – and it’s a disgrace.

    Bottom line – stop the cait-calling, I’ve had enough.

  19. ok Pete, lets go back. Here is what you say will defeat terrorism:

    ‘There is only one way to defeat terrorism, and I mean ‘defeat’, not treat with, compromise with or surrender to. It’s the certain knowledge in the mind of the potential terrorist that he will lose. It’s the certain knowledge in his mind that no matter what he does, he will not gain a single advantage by terror.’

    So no concessions to terrorist from any governments. No problem. So lay out for me then how you stop the bombs going off? How do you stop the shootings? What does the government do if it does not negotiate? Do you think negotations will involve concessions?

    ‘If he cannot encourage popular support, tough.’

    The IRA had popular support Pete. So do many other terrorist groups. What does a government do in the face of that?

    ‘so when am I allowed to resort to killing my way to what I want?’

    Well I don’t think you’re going to do that Pete, but theres a point in there. What do you want for NI in particular? Would you have us go back to Unionist rule? With discrimination in housing and everything else? Tell me what you want.

  20. 1. I have great respect for Troll (and Monica) and am irritated at the constant slanging of his spelling by Cait. I’m telling you now Cait – stop it.

    I’ll do better than that. I’ll leave you to it. A blog containing posts which are illigible is not a blog I want to go to.

    Anybody who isn’t happy just let me know and I will refund monies before books are sent out.

    I’m not happy.

    3. The essence of blogging lies in making interesting points and enabling discussion.

    Theres also an element of getting what you say accross, and I can’t fathom his sentences out half the time.

    Bottom line – stop the cait-calling, I’ve had enough.

    me too. Either a blog is legible or it isn’t, if it isn’t why bother!

    see ya!

  21. Cait –

    My next line was: Sure, it’s the longer road, the harder one which makes moral demands of those who take it, but it’s the only one which defeats terror.

    By asking how governments stop bombs and shooting, you clearly believe that the world is perfectable and that governments necessarily can always provide solutions.

    Well they can’t.

    Cait, some people are just plain evil or psychotic and enjoy killing. These people you’ll never reach. The government’s job is to act within the law yet do what it can to prevent terrorist acts. But you just have to accept that where evil exists and is determined, sometimes you’ll be out of luck.

    I admit, what I advocate takes strong moral courage and is the tough line. It means a war of attrition against terrorism where it can be waged but the displayed determination to never, ever give an inch is the most important thing and the only thing that will persuade terrorists to one day give up, and some terrorists do give up.

    People like you ought to admit that you believe those who are sufficiently evil or psychotic ought to be rewarded with respect, a place at the table and a seat in government. You believe it right that psychotic killers and organised crime gangs ought to govern you – because they are psychotic, determined and you don’t have the will to defeat them. It’s a tough thing to admit and you’ll deny it, but your words reveal clearly your beliefs.

    I suppose you saw ‘The Undercover Diplomat’ earlier this week, Johnathon Powell’s revelations as Tony Blair’s envoy to organised terror in the UK. Let me remind you of what he said to Seamus Mallon, whose SDLP is now nowhere:

    Your problem is that you don’t have guns.

    There you go. Read those words again, spoken by the government’s appointed negotiator to a democrat. Read them and understand what he said – that if you were peaceful and a democrat, you were guaranteed to get nowhere. If mass murder was your chosen method Her Majesty’s government was prepared to do business. Have guns, will govern.

    This is the ‘peace’ process that you support.

  22. Patty posted:

    Just like with the other writer you recently ran out of town.

    Patty, now that Cait has fallen on her sword, who was that, for the benefit of the rest of us?

  23. I hope that Cait changes her mind, as I found a lot of her comments to be good.

    But I do agree that her sniping at Troll was unnecessary.I’ve never had a problem understanding exactly what Troll was getting at, and his writing methods have never bothered me.

    If someone here was totally objectionable to me, I’d simply ignore their comments.

    Live and let live, baby. Troll, I’m driving to Wayne PA tomorrow ; I’ll wave at you from the Blue Route.

  24. Congratulations on the publication of your book David. It must be very satisfying to have the finished product.

    Out of curiosity, how long did it take you to write it and how did you go about it. I mean did you set aside time each day or did you sit down to write a chapter and not get up til you’d finished. Did you work to an outine etc?

  25. Cheers Frank,

    I had been trying to get it done in late 06 but when my father was diagnosed with terminal cancer I just didn’t have the time or inspiration. After his death -in the early summer months – I wrote it in 10 weeks. I set aside 6 hours each weekend, in the relative calm of the conservatory, with classical music (Mozart) in the background and it all just came out.

    The process was that I wrote a chapter each weekend, went through it with my long suffering wife, and then edited. It all sort of flowed and in a sense it is a stream of consciousness – with an attempt to add humour – to ten years of my life. (Maybe longer – I go right back to memories of early days and traumatic events)

    I find that my best writing is the stuff that just comes easy, not contrived or overly structured. I like to write with passion, so it is by no means objective, but it is from the heart.

  26. David

    I’m looking forward to it. Normally I never read books about contemporary politics, but this is different, because it looks like the Belfast Agreement has set the scene for a generation.

  27. Likewise, congratulations on the book. You have achieved what many would like to do, but just never seem to get around to doing it.

    When it was done did you have a sense of relief, or of trepidation at what your readers might think of it?

    Whatever, good luck with the sales, given the subject you may even get a plug on the BBC – if you are still friends!

  28. I think the book will be wonderful! Hope you make a pretty penny for your efforts David.

  29. DV

    Did you receive the email I sent via this site about purchasing your book?

    Just need to know how I make payment.

    Thanks

  30. Is it my imagination or have things gone quiet on ATW? I know we have had a couple of walkouts and I wonder is the registration system putting off newcomers?

    We all registered because we knew the value of the site but a new person might not bother?

  31. Henry,
    I believe there’s a major boycott in solidarity with Cait!

    BTW, Henry – there was an good article in the IT recently expressing the view that RoI reentry into the Commonwealth could soon be all that is needed to win a critical mass of northern Protestants over to the idea of a united Ireland. I’ve forgotten if you’re one of the posting elect on ATW, but if so, maybe you’d like to do a post on it. If not, I’d like to hear your views on this somewhere, and maybe some1 else could post…

  32. Noel

    1. If somebody can produce a unionist that would change his mind about the union in exchange for Ireland joining the Commonwealth I’d like to meet him. But I’ll check out the article and give a more considered rejection.

    2. What’s Cait’s problem this time?

Comments are closed.