35 2 mins 11 yrs

I am surprised.

Sinn Fein Presidential candidate Martin McGuinness is the main suspect in the brutal murder of two policemen.

Sergeant Peter Gilgunn (26) and Constable David Montgomery (20), were gunned down in an IRA ambush as they travelled in an RUC patrol car in Derry. They were the first police officers to lose their lives in a terrorist incident in the city for 50 years.

The ambush 40 years ago came just three days before Bloody Sunday sent shockwaves right across the Province. But now a former RUC officer, who was in the car when the officers were killed, has revealed Northern Ireland’s Deputy First Minister, Martin McGuinness is under the spotlight for his alleged involvement. The retired officer, who did not want to be named, said he was told by a member of the Historic Enquiries Team investigating the case that McGuinness is the main suspect.

The reason I am surprised is that McGuinness is suspected of direct involvement in TWO murders. I heard it was much more. During the final Presidential debate, McGuinness REFUSED to say that he believed that west Belfast woman Jean McConville was murdered. Instead he used the predictable Sinn Fein evasions. He is unfit to hold ANY elected position, in my view, and it is my view that the people of the Irish Republic will make that abundantly clear today.

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35 thoughts on “A KILLER IN THE ARAS?

  1. The evidence for this story is so poor that even by Daily Mail standards it’s pathetic

    The retired officer, who did not want to be named, said he was told by a member of the Historic Enquiries Team investigating the case that McGuinness is the main suspect.

    An unnamed source quoting an unnamed source! If McGuinness is the suspect in the investigation why have they not interviewed him? Will they ever? Of course not. No story just bullshit.

  2. So, the day before the Presedential election a forty year old allegation is wheeled out against one of the candidates?

    I can hear the bottom of a barrel being scraped somewhere.

    The retired officer, who did not want to be named, said he was told by a member of the Historic Enquiries Team investigating the case that McGuinness is the main suspect.

    If this is true shouldn’t a criminal investigation be instigated to find the source of the person who broke confedentiality and put a sub judice inestigation in potential jepoardy?

  3. “He is unfit to hold ANY elected position, in my view, and it is my view that the people of the Irish Republic will make that abundantly clear today.”

    Actually David there is only one thing that makes a person fit to hold an elected position and that is having the support of the people, a standard that Martin McGuinness regularly receives and one that you have always failed to come even close to.

  4. Henry

    1. The story is in the Irish Herald.

    Paul

    It’s all so unfair, isn’t it?

    Seamus

    Sure, that’s why Hitler and Provo McGuinness have so much in common. Both elected by the immoral. Celebrate.

  5. If the best you can come up with is Hitler then it says a lot about your mentality. Can’t come up with better arguments so they just say Hitler as many times as they can.

    The only standard that should apply in a democracy is the will of the people. Any attempt to stop the people expressing their will (such as banning individuals or parties) is by definition undemocratic. It is just sour grapes on your part. The people favour McGuinness a lot more than they favour you so you throw your teddy out of the pram and call them immoral.

  6. Seamus

    You equate being elected with legitimacy. It isn’t. See under “Tyrants”
    That some people support a Provo Godfather speaks volumes about them, not me.

  7. The only way this guy gets into the Aras is as a tourist or other visitor.

    He’ll get his votes but others will get far more.

  8. I don’t. By definition a tyrant is an illegitimate ruler. But how does one get legitimacy. There are generally four different forms of legitimacy.

    There is traditional legitimacy whereby a person or office has legitimacy because it really always has done or because of some form of higher power at work. This is the main type of legitimacy in terms of a Monarchy or a Theocracy.

    There is also legitimacy derived from the personal characteristics of a leader. This is normally the most nominal form of legitimacy as it is more about the person than the office. Normally to avoid being a tyrant the person must hold one of the other forms of legitimacy.

    There is then rational legitimacy. A person has legitimacy because they hold a legally gained office. This is the most common form of legitimacy in the Western world.

    The forth form of legitimacy is output legitimacy. The idea is that an institution or office is legitimate because it works. It is effective. This is also more common in dictatorships but does have some impact in democracies (such as the House of Lords).

    As long as a person holds one of these four he or she does hold legitimacy. The fact that Martin McGuinness is an elected official might annoy you, might disgust you but it doesn’t take away that he has the authority to speak on behalf of at least some section of society.

    What gives any elected politician legitimacy if it isn’t the fact that they are elected?

  9. “It’s all so unfair, isn’t it?”

    What’s that David the fact that the great and the good are in such a panic that they’re dredging up investigations allegedly , (wonder why it hasn’t surfaced before now?) being investigated by the HET or the fact that if it is true a HET member broke the law, (something that you’re supposedly quite strong on), by potentially tainting a live investigation?

    “The only way this guy gets into the Aras is as a tourist or other visitor”

    That’s true Phantom. If by some miracle McG does get the position I din’t think that there’ll be anyone more surprised than him. This is a tactital testing of the waters by SF for a longer term strategy.

  10. A testing of the waters will be the spin, but we all know they thought they had this and his loss will be a welcome splash of reality into the face of the self-congratulating SF world.

  11. Mahons Sinn Féin polled 10% in the General Election. They are looking to have increased that by more than half. No one ever expected Sinn Féin to win this, not even Sinn Féin. So it isn’t going to be a significant success.

  12. “We all know they thought they had this”

    I’m born and bred in West Belfast and I never thought that McG had anything but an exceptionally small outside chance.

  13. The winner also comes from the party that has the longest tradition of Republicanism, violent where necessary, in Ireland. So there’s something for everybody in this result.

    It may be easy to forget this after all those decades of mohair suits and Conor Cruise O Briens, but there is still something of the old fighter for justice and the underdog in today’s Irish Labour Party. Let’s hope Higgins lives up to that tradition.

  14. Paul – I refer to McG mindset and that of his devoted followers, not the man in the street.

  15. Do you actually think Mahons that Martin McGuinness actually thought he could win this election? That most Sinn Féin activists thought it?

  16. My observations of what he said during the course of the campaign, things his supporters wrote and said, the lack of attractiveness of other candidates, the polls and editorials, and my usual brillant insight.

    It was great to see him want it so much that he squirmed and offered his half-baked apologies which he had never even brought himself to utter previosuly.

    Back to Earth Icarus.

  17. Mahons

    You are completely misreading the situation if you believe Sinn Fein thought they could win this election. The objective was to continue to build. Beating the Fine Gael candidate and causing the Provisional Fianna Fail candidate to trip-up were added extras. T

  18. Sinn Féin undoubtedly said they could win. So did everyone. Dana said she could win. THe fact this was the introduction of Sinn Féin to modern southern politics. Sinn Féin have no positioned themselves as a credible party in the South and built a strong position to go into the local elections and EU elections in 2014. It was never about winning. Standing was the important element.

  19. Also the reason he answered those questions, however cagily he did it, is to ensure that next time round it won’t be asked. With him standing in this election, and Gerry Adams standing in the general election, they have not only provided significant names to election campaigns in the South they have also let the media swing themselves out on the issue of previous links with the IRA.

  20. Henry/Seamus:

    Oddly enough as I review the old posts that dealt with this election campaign I could not find any comments from you indicating that Mr. McGuiness could not win and was merely running to – what is the phrase – position Sinn Fein as a credible party in the South?

    The results appear to indicate a finish by Mr. McGuiness, a star and quasi-celebrity of his party running in a field of troubled candidates at a time of deep voter resentment against the more mainstream parties and finishing around shall we say 10-13% or so? or as an unkind person might say, and I am that unkind perso, finishing with almost 90% of the voters rejecting him?

    Perhaps Ourselves Alone has never been more apt a designation.

  21. “Beating the Fine Gael candidate and causing the Provisional Fianna Fail candidate to trip-up ”

    Oh, come off it, Henry. What has Sinn Fein got to show from all that effort, what will it benefit the party and its policies in the long run? If it gets its kicks from beating the weak FG man, it really needs to think about its role in Irish politics.

    The country on the other hand will see the very high-profile McGuinness being beaten by a young newcomer, Gallagher, even in a Donegal constituency. SF needs to take stock and realise that there is little gain to be made with anyone with the whiff of cordite about him south of the border. The old guard have made their point and had a good run for their money. Now it’s time for them to retire.

  22. Well the principle reason that you haven’t had any posts saying that Martin McGuinness won’t win from me is that I haven’t had access to the internet since before the start of the election campaign.

    And he is actually probably going to get about 15%.

  23. “Paul – I refer to McG mindset and that of his devoted followers, not the man in the street”

    So my status on ATW has been reduced from Provo lover / terrorist apologist / Sinner bootlicker etc to “the man on the street”?

    God’s teeth Mahons I’ve a reputation to think of 🙂

    “Oddly enough as I review the old posts that dealt with this election campaign I could not find any comments from you indicating that Mr. McGuiness could not win and was merely running to – what is the phrase – position Sinn Fein as a credible party in the South?”

    Can’t speak for anyone else but my position from day one was that it was a strategic exercise.

  24. Seamus,

    You wrote, “Also the reason he answered those questions, however cagily he did it, is to ensure that next time round it won’t be asked.” If you think those questions will not be asked every time a SF terrorist runs for office in the Republic, you are very mistaken. McGuinness has reminded people how unjust, murderous and destructive their activities were. And, the families and supporters of the actual victims will never let people forget what horrors SF terrorists let loose on the Irish people. Additionally people have further evidence of blatant SF lying about their grisly past.

  25. New Yorker

    Well said.

    It’s a laugh watching the shinners switch to plan B when it’s clear that their man is well beaten. Two weeks ago they were talking differently.

    Well done to the electorate in the Republic. They have elected the best of a mediocre bunch, but more importantly they have comprehensively rejected a man with blood on his hands.

  26. If I remember correctly Peter I recall yourself accusing me of attempted spinning when I suggested such a thing a few weeks ago.

  27. Oh oh, Paul. You know where that’s leading…after the man in the street is the dog in the street…;-P But hey, you’re from Belfast, a town too tough to die! Seas d’fhód!

  28. Paul – I don’t think I everreferred to you as Provo Lover/terrorist apologist/sinner bootliker. If I did I crossed a line.

    Eternally damned Fenian lapdog on the other hand…. (I kid I kid). No I have found your arguements fair even when I don’t agree with them. I think, unlike some of mr. McGuiness’ supporters who visit here, that you have a sincere distaste for the past violence.

    As strategic exercises go, how do you think it went? SF and the IRA haven’t had this much bad press since the Peace Process started. To me it served as a reminder of what they had engaged in.

  29. Paul

    Yes, I did. But my comment tonight referred mainly to the party.

    McG produced the envelope story a few days ago to make sure that the FF candidate would not win, and it seems that may have swung it to Labour. If so, the Shinners will regard it as a result of sorts, because it is the FF vote they are chasing.

  30. The strange thing and one that will be of interest when the dust settles is the almost plateuing of Sinn Féin’s vote. It went up (as ultimately did the overall) in 36 of the 43 constituencies in the state yet the 7 were it went down all having sitting Sinn Féin TDs. Now to a certain degree it is not surprising in Cavan-Monaghan, as Sean Gallagher is from there and dominated the poll in the constituency, while others such as Louth, Kerry North and Donegal South are probably more due to the sitting TDs inflating the result in the general as all 3 were very high profile.

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