284 3 mins 15 yrs

Wonder what your view is on the news that a mother has provoked an ethical row by getting the backing of doctors to remove her disabled daughter’s womb to improve the teenager’s "quality of life" in adulthood?  Alison Thorpe said her 15-year-old daughter Katie, who cannot walk or talk, and needs round the clock care, will suffer undue pain, confusion and indignity by the onset of womanhood. She wants surgeons to carry out a hysterectomy to save her daughter, who she says has no prospect of having a child, from the distress and inconvenience of menstruating. A consultant at her local hospital has taken up her cause and is seeking legal approval to carry out the procedure even though it is not medically needed.

Disabled rights groups were furious at the move. "It is really unacceptable that the for the first time in the UK that doctors want to remove a girl’s womb simply because of being disabled," said Simone Aspis of the United Kingdom’s Disabled Peoples Council."Katie like any other non disabled teenager has the right to grow up with her body in tact, and where she can have the same choice as anyone else to give birth to her own children. Katie’s human rights are being taken away and this is simply wrong."

So, where do you stand on this moral dilemma. My heart goes out to Alison and Katie – and I can see why the operation is being considered. Giving young Katie the best life possible is an understandable objwctive but then again, does this set a precedent which may have profound consequences. If we can get a girl’s womb removed even though there is no medical need for the procedure, what comes next? A life? I am open-minded on this one and await your thoughts…

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284 thoughts on “A MORAL DILEMMA…

  1. >>Ill add that I accept there is a right to free speech <<

    which is why I so often tell people to shut up when I don’t like what they comment.

  2. Another thoughtful contribution Noel, well done you. Perhaps Ill just continue to point that out – after all its what you seem to like best eh?

  3. >>after all its what you seem to like best eh?<<

    Telling commenters to shut up is what you seem to like best eh?

  4. ‘we all have the right to take a view. We have, of course, no right to judge’.

    We also could and should exercise some consideration for the people we are discussing in such a sensitive topic as this David. ATW is not the gutter press – I thought we had all recently come to that conclusion, said our apologies and moved on? If we cannot apply that to the people whose lives we choose to pick over then this is no different than saying fuck you. These are living breathing sentient human beings we are discussing and to accuse them of being what they are not is judgment from on high, distasteful at best and close to libel at worse

  5. Perhaps you could simply give people marks out of ten Noel? And we can do likewise – what a fascinating debate that would be.

  6. I don’t care if I judged. This case involves judgement. How many other severely handicapped young women have their wombs removed in order to prevent pain that is ASSUMED they will have? How many? Perhaps a few. But this mother has said she would move heaven and earth to get the controversial treatment that happened in the US. Breast bud removal, stunted growth and womb removal, to stop this child growing up. That is stomach churning for any parent to do. It caused controvesy and I suspect judgement in the US, it will happen here if allowed to go ahead.

    I fully intend to write letters to all disability groups to highlight this case. Further I intend to write to any government official I can to highlight this case, and I fully intend if I can to get the backing of any or all disability groups to make sure this sort of this does not become acceptable.

    How generations of disabled women coped until now is beyond our ken, if this is called pioneer treatment. Its one thing for people to flush pregnancy down the toilet quite another to mutilate a child for assumed reasons. Its grotesque,its shocking and its unacceptable.

    As to not judging well evil flourishes when good men do nothing. I won’t stand by and do nothing. This woman deserves to be judged by her peers.

    As to not having the thread, thats censorship by another name. I’m glad David stands by this thread. This needed highlighting, it needed a torch shone on it. Its stomach churning that anyone would equate mutilation with mothering, and say this is in the childs best interests because the mother says so. The mother will benefit because the child is easier managed, there is no benefit to the child. Only an assumed one. Thats not enough.

    She has to face her maker one day.

  7. >>whose lives we choose to pick over then this is no different than saying fuck you.<<

    >>ATW is not the gutter press – <<

    Alison, but only because you don’t comment here too often.

    But if you continue to tell people to "shut up" when they have made an entirely inoffensive comment (which you probably didn’t understand) and use the F-word on a topic as delicate as this one, you could soon be there.

  8. Noel – you arent as smart as i thought. Perhaps a couple of ” around the words would be significant. Its all a question of taste though eh? Like your jew hating.

  9. Alison goes to too many sites to see too many big swinging dicks, hence she thinks she is macho. Perhaps a real big swinging dick would allieviate the aggro she suffers.

  10. Pathetic Typhoo. You my dear are what is know as a ‘fair weather commenter’ – next time the ATW pack mentality is in full swing ill be happy to let them finish you off. I applied the same concerns about witch hunt mentality when it was unleashed on you. I see you were quick to defend your reputation whilst slamming this womans though eh? How christian.

    Anti semitism is mainstream Noel. You should know

  11. its a shame you have move on from the original topic that was being discussed and changed it into a slagging match. I was thoroughly interested in reading your views but can’t actually be bothered to pick through the playground talk anymore. As somebody that knows the family in question i felt that it would perhaps be interesting to hear another perspective and debate the topic like adults. Typhoo if you feel that you need to write to varying organisations because you feel that passionately about the topic, then good for you. Perhaps tho it would be benefical to write to the mother as well camly stating your case and inviting er to respond with her views. At least that way you will have the full facts at your fingertips.

  12. Thanks to Blighty and to Alison for the thoughtful comments.

    I am horrified at Typhoo and her intentions. It turns out i indirectly know the family concerned and will be alerting them to this post and of Typhoos stated intentions ( via a colleague here at work) . Since he also works for in the msm perhaps he might be interested in this also.

  13. Carry on playing together kiddies

    Only men like you Cunningham. The real seedy kind who think Presidents gross indiscretions are mere wistful fancies.

  14. Alison,

    Being sensitive to the feelings of others is indeed part of civilised debate and on a topic such as this I quite agree that care is essential. No one should seek to hurt another person.

  15. >>are mere wistful fancies<<

    Second time on this thread you’ve shown you don’t understand simple English.

  16. Alison, luv take my advice.

    Paul, good. Tell them you know someone who is horrified at what they are doing, and will alert every disability group / agency / and media outlet they can, and also intend to make sure a torch is shone on what they are doing. A torch needs shone. Mtilation is barbaric. I hope this fails in court. Perhaps a letter to the court also, I hope theres a picket outside it. There ought to be.

  17. Blighty

    Perhaps the family should be aware of this I know ill include it.

    Defamation is any published material that damages the reputation of an individual or an organisation. This covers material on the internet as well as radio and television broadcasts – so even drama and fiction can be defamatory if they damage someone’s reputation. You can only publish defamatory material if it comes within one of the recognised legal defences. If it doesn’t, the publication will amount to libel and you may have to pay substantial damages.

    Libel online

    Slander is ‘defamation by word of mouth’

    Internet sites are not exempt from any libel laws. If you are publishing on the internet you are bound by the same libel laws as print publishers.

    In the UK, internet service providers are coming under increasing pressure to close sites containing defamatory allegations. You also have to be careful about the comments others post on your site. There have been cases where individuals have sued online publishers for libel over customer book reviews published on their sites.

    Such developments have implications for freedom of expression.

    The purpose of libel law

    Libel law protects individuals or organisations from unwarranted, mistaken or untruthful attacks on their reputation.

    A person is libelled if a publication:

    Exposes them to hatred, ridicule or contempt

    Causes them to be shunned or avoided

    Discredits them in their trade, business or profession

    Generally lowers them in the eyes of right thinking members of society

    Since she is a carer that also qualifies as a profession.

  18. Umpteenth time youve made an irrelevant remark Noel. Excellent all round contributions as usual

    What advice arent i taking Typhoo? You know this shrewd judgment of yours is so off its quite amusing.

  19. Noel, we’d do best to ignore her, and let paul get on with his libel threats.


  20. We would prefer to be able to ignore you Typhoo but we wont. You are clearly mad as a box of frogs

  21. Not that mad that I agree with people mutilating there children. So I’d rather be with the frogs than you.LOL.

    Don’t forget the libel now Paul.


  22. my neice is 32 in diapers, cannot talk or walk and has had the priveledge of severe menstrual pain for 21 years, she is cared for by my sister-in-law. A hysterctomy would have been available in the 1970’s, but not anymore. Please remember, there are HUGE variations in the word disabled

  23. Aunt,

    Sorry to hear about your niece. It’s always important to remember that in these discussions there are tought realities for good people. Thank you for commenting.

  24. Just curious…where does it state that the mother of this young girl sought out the media or is that just an assumption?

  25. I read through the comments today and it is pretty clear to me that
    Typhoid (and also Cunningham) used the bottom of this thread to be
    abusive to people they don’t like and start a petty row. Let, at least,
    discussions be exactly that, discussions and not just a stomping ground.
    I clarified my earlier comment. I don’t comment on ATW much anymore but
    I don’t intend to read or respond to Typhoids comments in the future.

  26. As the father of a 10 year old severely mentally disabled son, I wanted to contribute a few thoughts that may not be relevant to the hysterectomy issue but are relevant to the treatment of special needs people and to their value to humankind. As someone who is attempting to integrate the essences of the various spiritual traditions and experiences with the radical new theories emerging through theoretical physics and consciousness psychology, I see my child as a beautiful gift from the universe who creates unselfish love: both emanating from his consciousness and on the part of those who are in contact with him. His pure actions and thoughts are examples of the manner in which we should all treat each other without hatred, prejudice or sexism. We all have the pure consciousness of the universe within us but due to our egocentric nature we veil the purity within us. Those of us who have the beautiful experiences of interacting with a special needs child/adult are allowed a glimpse into the true nature of the universal consciousness: unconditional, unselfish love. I agree with Tom Tyler (above) who stated that we are all “disabled” in some way. To rephrase his statement, I would add that we all have “special needs” of one type or another. We “normal” adults have the special need to disallow our selfish, egocentric nature to rule our thoughts and actions in order that we may see the world in the pure manner in which my son does.

  27. Maggie,

    I am sorry that you are commenting less as I always appreciate what you say.


    Thanks for the comment and best wishes to you and your son.

  28. ZBOB,

    I agree with you 100%. I feel the same way about my 21 year old daughter who has Rett Syndrome. She is a blessing/angel. Her spirit/soul is whole. Her love is pure/unconditional. Her laughfter is from her heart; it is contaegous. http://www.rettsyndrome.org

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