129 3 mins 9 yrs

 

Once upon a time, such as during the Second World War years, we might be said to have faith in the News, as broadcast by the BBC. Sixty-eight years later, we know better both for that time, and, unfortunately, for now. Newsworthy items, such as many defeats or setbacks, were routinely embargoed or prohibited from the newspapers or the BBC airwaves, in the spurious belief that, first of all, ‘the Government knows best’; and that news of defeats would support a movement for either surrender; or movement towards neutrality. The sinking of the battleship HMS Barham by a German torpedo was considered to be so internally delicate that news censorship was decreed, and was only lifted some three months after the sinking. The film of the tragedy was only revealed after the end of the war. Helen Duncan’s imprisonment was considered to be a direct result of the Barham’s sinking, as the Government wanted to keep any news of the tragedy under wraps.

So we now turn to today’s news, as published by our very own Goebbels organisation, the BBC Today Programme. We had a turgid piece about the production of a ‘hamburger’ costing around £250,000.00 and made or ‘grown’ from stem cells. Then the usual rubbish about sports, a piece about how a train was late, and a lot of chatter about ‘zero-hour contracts’, and how terrible they are, and how the Tory Government are so awful to allow them. Another episode of the long drawn-out saga of the Catholic Church and the latest scandal of sexual abuse by Benedictine monks in Scotland. Then the triumph of the BBC’s investigative journalists in the discovery that the dead Boston Bomber, the one who was actually killed by his younger brother as he drove over him whilst escaping, had ‘strong links’ to ‘Right Wing American hate sites on the Web’. I presume we were expected to infer from this ‘bombshell’ that the two clowns who killed three and maimed one hell of a lot more that day in Boston were not Muslim Jihadi murderers, but in fact were deeply influenced by the likes of Timothy McVeigh; and of course, by extension of that inference, by the BNP and the EDL.

I have visited the online spoutings of Anders Breivik of Norwegian infamy. Does this make me into a prospect for a mass murder? Of course it does not. I would like to pin a great many politicians to a wall, but I would just imprison them for a long, long time.

 

The BBC: a great successor to the proud traditions of Herr Goebbels, who would be so proud of what they have achieved with his perverted ideals!

 

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129 thoughts on “and here is the News, read by Alvar Liddell…

  1. One of the brothers suspected of carrying out the Boston bombings was in possession of right-wing American literature in the run-up to the attack, BBC Panorama has learnt.

    Tamerlan Tsarnaev subscribed to publications espousing white supremacy and government conspiracy theories.

    He also had reading material on mass killings.

    Until now the Tsarnaev brothers were widely perceived as just self-styled radical jihadists.

    As I asked in another thread perhaps he was jihadi and right wing?

    Another in his possession was about “the rape of our gun rights”.

    That seems oddly familiar . . . .

  2. I really urge you not to trivialize the Holocaust no matter how much you might dislike the BBC. be as critical as you wish, but not at the expense of history.

  3. ” Mike – do you ever read ATW?”

    Why say that Pete?

    I think Mr Cunningham comes out with some thoughtful and provocative items for us to chew over. Like “Touch me Not” the one about Hinduism the other day, which I think merited a lot more than just two comments.
    And he is quite right in highlighting the fact that in the UK trust has broken down between the government and the people. That is a tragedy.

  4. Yes. that was interesting Agi.

    I also found it interesting that someone castigating discrimination was apparently happy to live under Apartheid rule in South Africa.

    Maybe that’s why the thread was so short on comments?

  5. I never went to South Africa and I never would, regardless of who was running it.
    I would feel out of place and out of my cultural comfort zone.
    That Mike lived there under Apartheid does not make him a baaaaaaad person.
    That Mike lived there under Apartheid and thought Apartheid was a good/reasonable idea,
    does not make him a baaaaaaad person.
    If he had kicked and raped, robbed and verbally abused every black person, such that they had to build secure compounds to protect themselves from him, that would make him a baaaaaad person.

    Incidentally I found this piece by the great Cassius Clay aka Muhammad Ali, talking to Michael Parkinson in 1971 and I totally agree with him..

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTeudEWOL4w

  6. Agit8ed –

    I asked because DV posted below about the BBC and the supposed Right Wing Boston bomber. Two threads on the same topic is messy.

  7. Mike has previous for posting on a topic already covered that day.

    Agi

    That Mike lived there under Apartheid and thought Apartheid was a good/reasonable idea,
    does not make him a baaaaaaad person.

    That depends on what constitutes “bad” for you.

  8. Mike was hardly living “under” apartheid. He benefitted from it and appears to have left SA when it was no more. His present day affection for it as a system is rather pathetic. To suggest that it was a good or reasonable idea is contrary to any sane interpretation of the facts.

  9. I knew that BBC story would annoy right wingers on ATW. If the story is true than there is no reason why it shouldn’t be mentioned, or is it OK for the media to hide and cover up murderers Right wing/Race superiority links ?

  10. The BBC .. the most comical thing I have ever seen on Al-Ja BBC was last year when no presenter or so called reporter would pronouce Pakistan as ‘Pakistan’ and replaced it with ‘Parkistan’, I assume because the Left-Wing imbeciles thought it more politicaly correct, I note that it has now been dropped …

    Twats

  11. Really ! I’d never have know is you hadn’t helped someone like me who can’t read English 😉

  12. Colm, on August 5th, 2013 at 5:19 PM Said:
    Really ! I’d never have know is you hadn’t helped someone like me who can’t read English

    You are not English Colm .. dream on 😉

  13. Harri

    Wot am I then ? A citizen of the glorious Democratic Peoples Republic of the European Union 🙂

  14. Colm, on August 5th, 2013 at 5:31 PM Said:
    Harri

    Wot am I then ? Probably drunk 😉

    A citizen of the glorious Democratic Peoples Republic of the Federal European Union

    That would be the one

    And just like me and 500 million other citizens our arses now belong to ze Germans

  15. Aileen,
    Did you watch that clip from Muhamed Ali with Parkinson?
    He says exactly what I as a white man feel, but whereas he could say it as a black man I would get my backside kicked if I said that on national tv.

    I didn’t agree with Apartheid, but not all white South Africans were bad to black South Africans.
    I just wouldn’t want to live there because I don’t buy into multiculturalism segregation or our “weally wonderful multiculti life enriching” version.
    Like Muhammed I like being amongst my own kind, and that doesn’t mean we don’t have baaaaad’ns of our own, we do.

  16. A number of white South Africans challenged the system and worked against it, others at least came to the recognition that the system was evil. That it was an evil system has not dawned on some.

  17. But if you are born as a white south african during the apartheid era, you would accept it until either your conscience or someone brought it to your attention that it was wrong.
    It was the white (Dutch) settlers who began the process of building the country, using native black labour.

    http://www.info.gov.za/aboutsa/history.htm

    It was built into a modern prosperous state but like the USA it had a system of apartheid and discrimination which was wrong, and I find wrong, but I wouldn’t want to live there or anywhere else in Africa. And there’s places in your country I wouldn’t want to live either!

    It’s not my roots nor my culture.

  18. I suppose their are many White South Africans and indeed non South African whites who genuinely thought and still do that black Africans were better off living in a country being run by whites. They thought apartheid was better for blacks than majority rule.

  19. Agi
    Aileen,

    Did you watch that clip from Muhamed Ali with Parkinson?

    nope

    .I didn’t agree with Apartheid, but not all white South Africans were bad to black South Africans.

    Who is saying they were?

    I

    just wouldn’t want to live there because I don’t buy into multiculturalism segregation or our “weally wonderful multiculti life enriching” version.
    Like Muhammed I like being amongst my own kind, and that doesn’t mean we don’t have baaaaad’ns of our own, we do

    .

    Race (beyond my family) has nothing to do with anyone being “my own kind”. It is a bizarre thing to base notions of “my own kind”.

    My own kind are people who share my values, beliefs, culture, experiences, neurological profile or grandparents. People are not “my own kind” merely for being “white”.

  20. Well said Aileen. ‘My own kind’ are people I have an easy connection with. I can chat and socialise and laugh with. Who share my humour and interests and ease of conversation. They can be the same nationality and or racial/religious background as me but many do not.

  21. The acceptance the system as it then existed by white South Africans is hardly a ringing endorsement for anyone championing it in 2013.

  22. My own kind are people who share my values, beliefs, culture, experiences, neurological profile or grandparents. People are not “my own kind” merely for being “white”.

    Kumbaya – and all that…..

    Unfortunately for those who would wish otherwise, race exists and it is the absolute determinant of who you are. Those who don’t wish to be white can simply shack up with a black and produce lots of little niglets who look nothing like the white parent, and that ends that particular white line.

  23. Alieen. Well put.

    The Cassius Clay interview is just proving what a racist shit he is. He talks about blackbirds not mating with buzzards and sticking to their own kind like black, white, Chinese and Indian people should do in his opinion. The fact that he doesn’t realize he’s comparing different, (and genetically) incompatible species to different, (genetically compatible) races eludes him. I knew was a wanker. But I didn’t realize he was this bad.

  24. Tessa Saunderson is way more “my own kind” (she doesn’t have to agree – it isn’t symmetric or transitive but it is reflexive 😉 ) than the Bogside Butcher

  25. Allan

    Where would we be without your pearls of wisdom. I thank you every day for your presence here on ATW. You enrich us all 🙂

  26. I thought it was strictly forbidden for Hindus and Sikhs ( Especialy if they have taken the Amrit) to have any type of relationship outside their own caste, is that not racist ?

    and sticking to their own kind like black, white, Chinese and Indian people should do in his opinion. The fact that he doesn’t realize he’s comparing different, (and genetically) incompatible species to different, (genetically compatible) races eludes him. I knew was a wanker. But I didn’t realize he was this bad.

  27. “My own kind” Aileen and Colm, can refer to my cultural roots which means the country I grew up in and the values and customs I was taught. It can also mean the people I like to be with.
    So for example that rules out most social workers, “touchy feely”, earnest types, snobs, people who swear or blaspheme a lot, and folk with a fund of dirty stories.

    That’s why I like Norfolk.
    It’s old fashioned, reminds me of the country I once knew as England, and life is much more leisurely.
    I’ve done time in the Midlands, Wolverhampton to be exact, four years. Didn’t like it and was glad to leave.
    Is that wicked of me?

  28. Dave

    Excuse the Mutual Admiration Society but VERY well put! Totally agree with your assessment of MA. He is a shit.(or at least was I don’t know if he has all his marbles now) I saw the interview at the time and that was my assessment of him. He has been fawned over because he is black. I find black racists no more acceptable than white ones. I will acknowledge that he inspired a lot of young black people to succeed and that success could be possible for them. However if they admire his racism, they are no better than him.

  29. I thought it was strictly forbidden for Hindus and Sikhs ( Especialy if they have taken the Amrit) to have any type of relationship outside their own caste, is that not racist ?

    I’m not sure it technically qualifies as racist Harri but it (the whole caste system) is wrong yes.

  30. Dave Alton –

    Ali came out with stronger stuff than that, on the BBC too. But you “didn’t realise he was this bad”?

    I suppose most people don’t know what his views are, or at least were. The cultural informers and court propagandists have him down as “the greatest”. He’s dragged out to acclaim to open Olympics Games. He’s portrayed as a hero. The truth is his stated opinions are much, much stronger than, say, Nick Griffin’s.

    It’s interesting how popular culture can be made to invert reality.

  31. Colm, on August 5th, 2013 at 7:01 PM Said:
    Harri

    It’s not strictly racist. It’s just bigoted narrow minded idiocy.

    It never is ‘Racist’ when the boot is on the other foot, then it’s just a ‘Cultural thing’

  32. Agi

    “My own kind” Aileen and Colm, can refer to my cultural roots which means the country I grew up in and the values and customs I was taught. It can also mean the people I like to be with.

    and that has what to do with race?

    So for example that rules out most social workers, “touchy feely”, earnest types, snobs, people who swear or blaspheme a lot, and folk with a fund of dirty stories.
    That’s why I like Norfolk.
    It’s old fashioned, reminds me of the country I once knew as England, and life is much more leisurely.
    I’ve done time in the Midlands, Wolverhampton to be exact, four years. Didn’t like it and was glad to leave.
    Is that wicked of me?

    It depends on your reason for not liking it.

  33. Harri

    It never is ‘Racist’ when the boot is on the other foot, then it’s just a ‘Cultural thing’

    No It’s never racist if it is not based on race. That is kinda fundamental.

    race same as culture
    race same as religion
    race same as nationality

    I hope the strikethroughs work 🙂

  34. ” He has been fawned over because he is black.”

    Fawned over by whom?
    You mean the western (white) msm?
    They do that all the time.
    I like Muhammed Ali because he was a great boxer, a showman, intelligent, and refused to go fight in Viet Nam. Rightly or wrongly he took a stand.
    Also most of the world prefer their own kind too.
    That’s why you end up with divided communities. If you look around the UK you’ll find it’s so. Even Northern Ireland still has its distinct communities I believe.

  35. Harri

    If a white person hates all Muslims he is not being racist, same as if a black Muslim hates all ‘Infidels’ . I am just being technical, I am not saying that only whites can be racist.

  36. If most of the world consider “their own kind” based merely on race then most of the world is a bit pathetic.

  37. Agit8ed

    You are forbidden from mentioning Northern Ireland… and Spain for that matter 😉

  38. ” and that has what to do with race?”

    It means I prefer my own people. That’s why I was glad to leave Wolverhampton.
    We’ve been all through this before. I respect people of other faiths cultures and colours, but I don’t want to live cheek by jowl with them.

  39. Aileen

    Fair comment, but come to think of it, I have seen many different types of races of people, including muslims in relationships with many other races and ‘cultures’, yet i can honestly say I have never seen a Hindu or Sikh with anyone from any other race or culture but their own .. interesting

    PS: The strikethroughs worked 😉

  40. ” If most of the world consider “their own kind” based merely on race then most of the world is a bit pathetic.”

    Aileen,
    I don’t think they’re pathetic, I just think they’re honest.

  41. I like Muhammed Ali because he was a great boxer, a showman, intelligent, and refused to go fight in Viet Nam. Rightly or wrongly he took a stand.

    Agreed.

    Though I lost some respect for Ali because of the disrespect that he showed for Joe Frazier. It really hurt Joe. And this was after Frazier showed kindness to Ali after his title was ( unfairly ) stripped. Frazier quietly lent Ali money when it was really needed, and still Ali called Frazier an ” Uncle Tom ” in public. For years.

    Ali was the legend, but Joe Frazier was the better man.

  42. Ali came out with stronger stuff than that, on the BBC too. But you “didn’t realise he was this bad”?

    To be honest Pete, this is the first interview with Ali I’ve ever seen. I never really (and still don’t) had much interest in celebrities.

    It’s interesting how popular culture can be made to invert reality.

    I agree.

  43. Agi

    I don’t think they’re pathetic, I just think they’re honest.

    What on earth has honesty got to do with what they consider? Honesty is about what you express or admit not just what they consider.

    They may or may not be honest about how pathetic they are.

  44. It can be realism.

    The Japanese, for example, think that in order to be Japanese you have to be of Japanese lineage. There’s really no such thing as being naturalized into Japanese citizenship.

    Well how dare they.

  45. The Japanese are right.

    If I moved to Japan with an English wife and had children there, those children would obviously not be Japanese.

  46. There’s no hostility in it.

    Its common sense in a ” non immigration ” country.

  47. Phantom
    It can be realism.
    The Japanese, for example, think that in order to be Japanese you have to be of Japanese lineage. There’s really no such thing as being naturalized into Japanese citizenship.
    Well how dare they.

    It is not difficult or uncommon for people to dare to be racist.
    What do they call someone born and brought up in Japan?

  48. ” Ali was the legend, but Joe Frazier was the better man.”

    But when you consider Phantom the way that (in the UK anyway) our msm tends to fawn over or be deferential towards people of other cultures or skin colour,I find that quite sickening.
    You like a man for who he is not his shape, size or colour, but when you get into community differences the whole thing gets much more complicated.

    For instance we have Frank Bruno the boxer. He was on the radio and tv recently because of his mental health problems.
    Now like many people I really like Frank. I regard him as an Englishman because he wears his heart on his sleeve, he is polite, courageous, has a great sense of humour and he isn’t full of that aggressive Afro Caribbean attitude that some have. That doesn’t mean I want to go and live in a multicultural area.

  49. There was a programme on TV a few years ago called Blood of the British. Here is the evocative theme tune and from it one can see immediately that those of us who are British and wish to remain British are white and European i.e. the blood of the British is the blood of the white man, and no other. For those who wish things to be otherwise, they’re not:

  50. Aileen, on August 5th, 2013 at 7:35 PM Said:
    Harri

    Jo Brand is being an idiot there.

    Aileen, if you have had the misfortune to see Jo Brand ‘perform’ you will realise at just what an idiot she really is 😉

    The BBC, love her

    Sorry to bring this up, but are Jews allowed to marry, or have a relationship with other races or cultures , they probably do, but is it allowed?

  51. “What on earth has honesty got to do with what they consider? Honesty is about what you express or admit not just what they consider. ”

    They are honest about preferring to live with their own people in their own culture.

  52. Aileen

    Frank Bruno’s mental health problems was one too many lines of Charlie, apart from that a thoroughly nice bloke.

  53. Aileen

    What’s racist about it?

    Someone born in Japan to say British parents and brought up in Japan would be a resident alien. What else should they be?

  54. ” What do they call someone born and brought up in Japan?”

    “Privriged.” 🙂

  55. Absolutely not. That’s not how the Japanese ( or many other nations ) do it.

    And they have it right.

    A Japanese is a Japanese. Accident of birth has nothing to do with it.

  56. Agi

    They are honest about preferring to live with their own people in their own culture.

    So you have decided that “most of the world” has expressed their preference? and that they consider race as one of the defining criteria?

  57. Harri

    Sorry to bring this up, but are Jews allowed to marry, or have a relationship with other races or cultures , they probably do, but is it allowed?

    I think it depends on who you ask. One of the sons of the Boss of the Jewish owned company I used to work for married a non-Jew. Some of the family accepted it, some didn’t. He wasn’t disowned or anything though and still worked for the family business.

  58. Colm,
    “Do you respect Allan for his honesty?”

    Yes I do. I respect the research he does in “The Twilight Zone” to prove his assertions, but he’s still a poisonous, white supremacist antisemite humourless swivel eyed bore.

  59. Harri

    Not sure I understand the relevance of your Frank Bruno comment. He did seem to be a good guy. I don’t know what Charlie is beyond presuming it is a drug. Can it bring on bipolar disorder?

  60. Yes I do. I respect the research he does in “The Twilight Zone” to prove his assertions, but he’s still a poisonous, white supremacist antisemite humourless swivel eyed bore.

    Agit

    But what if he is right ?

  61. http://www.tomatobubble.com/wonderfulrace1.html

    There once was a college freshman named George who thought he knew it all. While home for Christmas Break, George and his father got into a heated dispute after dinner one night. The argument began when the young student tried to explain to his father that, as White people, they should be held accountable for all the wrongs that they had inflicted upon non-Whites throughout history.

    Turning red with anger, the father yelled: “You are a walking cliché you know that boy? Is this what I’m paying for? For you to learn that it’s a good thing that the European peoples of the world fade out and cease to exist? Is that what you really want?”

    Young George replied, “Yes! I think it’s great! We are already down to just 9% of world population and falling. When we are all brown and yellow, it will mean the end of racism and the end of hate. The oppressed peoples of the world would have been better off if us racist White Europeans had never existed to begin with.”

    “What did you just say?! George’s father asked.

    “I said I wish us White people had never existed!

    And immediately following that statement, there came suddenly a blast of cold wind, an explosion, and a huge smoke cloud. When the smoke had settled, George found himself alone and lost in a cold forest. After a few seconds of confusion and disorientation, a frumpy old man then appeared out of nowhere. He leaned against a tree and spoke:

    “Well, George, you’ve got your wish.”
    .
    George asked: “Where am I? What’s going on here? And who are you?”
    .
    The old man answered: “I’m Clarence P. Oddbody, Angel 2nd class. You’ve got your wish George. I was sent here to show you what the world would have been like if Europeans, or Whites, had never existed. You now live in a world where White people never existed. No ‘dumb blondes’ , no redheads, no brown heads, no blue or green eyed devils. Just blacks, browns, and yellows.”

    And the rest describes the world as though white people never existed. It’s a wonderful life, updated to the world of today. What a wonderful future awaits those who think that it doesn’t matter whether there are white people or not.

  62. ” So you have decided that “most of the world” has expressed their preference? and that they consider race as one of the defining criteria?”

    Aileen I don’t think my observation based on the plain facts is my decison. It remains an observation. You were the one who condemned them all as being pathetic. 😉

  63. Young George replied, “Yes! I think it’s great! We are already down to just 9% of world population and falling. When we are all brown and yellow, it will mean the end of racism and the end of hate

    Young George has never heard of Rwanda then, or much else come to think of it

  64. Phantom

    We were discussing racism and you posted

    It can be realism.
    The Japanese, for example, think that in order to be Japanese you have to be of Japanese lineage. There’s really no such thing as being naturalized into Japanese citizenship.
    Well how dare they.

    I made a working assumption that your “it” was racism and that your “How dare they” was along the lines of “how dare they be racist”. So I made a comment that would be relevant to that assumption but would stand alone regardless of the assumption.

  65. ” But what if he is right ?”

    Harri,
    Regarding race he isn’t right because he assumes aryan/white supremacy over other races.
    I believe Judaeo Christian values made us a great nation, not the colour of our skin or any innate superiority.
    Allan takes the whole thing too far.

  66. Can it bring on bipolar disorder?

    Frank Bruno suffered from extreme paranoia, so the answer must be yes, a Girlfriend of mine has Bi-Polar, untill i knew that fact I had absolutely no idea just how devastating it could be on ones life.

  67. Agi

    ” So you have decided that “most of the world” has expressed their preference? and that they consider race as one of the defining criteria?”
    Aileen I don’t think my observation based on the plain facts is my decison

    .
    How is it a fact that most of the world has expressed a preference?

    You were the one who condemned them all as being pathetic.

    No I didn’t. I do not accept that most of the world considers who is “my kind” based on race! I said IF it did then it was pathetic. If you are going to make statements about what other posters say take more care that your statements are factual.

  68. Some would see the Japanese ways here as being racist in some negative way.

    I think that one would have to mangle the facts to reach such a conclusion.

  69. Harri

    It could be but it may be coincidence.

    I agree it is horrible. There are similarities between it and ADD in terms of extremes of mood and some sensory trigger stuff. They are often misdiagnosed for each other but the highs and lows with ADD are more about how well or badly your difference is accomodated at the time as opposed to BP swings which are more unpredictable and we don’t get the hallucination episodes (unless we have something else as well. I have struggled with my ADD but I can’t imagine coping with BP at all.

    For me Bruno even with his illness is a better man than MA at his height.

  70. ” How is it a fact that most of the world has expressed a preference?”

    Because last time I looked,
    India appeared full of Indian type people.
    Africa is full of Africans
    Arabia full of Arabs
    China full of Chinese
    Tibet full of Tibetans
    Japan full of Japanese
    and Russia full of Russian types.

    In fact the only areas you will find lots of people from many different cultures living in the same place is the Western world.
    Which begs the question,
    “Why?”

  71. Regarding race he isn’t right because he assumes aryan/white supremacy over other races.

    As usual, Agit gets it wrong. Whether whites are superior or not is not “assumed” but is seen and can be supported simply by looking at the wonders of the modern world and who made them. The answer is whites and this is made clear in my post of 7.54pm in the homage to ‘It’s a wonderful life’ where the world is shown to a naive young man who wishes that (evil, racist) whites hadn’t existed, and what a dreadful world it is. Naivety is usually associated with youth and not with a 60-odd year-old who really ought to have learnt something by now.

    But being ‘superior’ or even ‘Chosen’ does not give such people the right to steal lands from others.

  72. Allan,
    you left out my

    “I believe Judaeo Christian values made us a great nation, not the colour of our skin or any innate superiority.
    Allan takes the whole thing too far.”

  73. Agi

    ” How is it a fact that most of the world has expressed a preference?”
    Because last time I looked,
    India appeared full of Indian type people.
    Africa is full of Africans
    Arabia full of Arabs
    China full of Chinese
    Tibet full of Tibetans
    Japan full of Japanese
    and Russia full of Russian types.
    In fact the only areas you will find lots of people from many different cultures living in the same place is the Western world.
    Which begs the question,
    “Why?”

    Whether or not it begs the question why it does NOTHING to answer the question “How is it a FACT that most of the world has EXPRESSED a preference?” and a preference based on race – not nationality not future but race!

  74. Phantom

    If an individual is born and raised in Japan and has no other home but purely because of his race is not allowed to become a Japanese citizen then yes that is a racist policy. You can agree with it or not, but you can’t claim it isn’t racist.

  75. Phantom I don’t know but if I have to assume, I will assume they want little or no immigration not that they wish to exclude specific races.

    I want much much tighter immigration in the UK but not based on race.

  76. But it’s not necessarily ” due to race “. It’s a status passed on by parentage.

    He doesn’t have Japanese parents, so how can he possibly be Japanese? On what basis?

    Their traditions are just as old and just as valid as say the UK / US system, maybe moreso.

  77. Phantom – The Japanese base it on long-held racist beliefs, well known to anyone who was on the Battan Death March and their various neighbors who they invaded and and treated as sub-human. They’ve come a long way, but limiting citizenship (if that is what they do) to Japanese only is of course racist. It doesn’t mean they need to have an Open Door policy and let everyone in (they are overpopulated as it is).

  78. The Japanese are very uncomfortable with the idea of immigration.

    So are the Koreans, but Korea is now allowing some immigration – from compatible, ( real ) Asian cultures, such as Vietnam and the Philippines. I don’t think that they’ll be allowing any in from Karachi.

  79. Aileen.

    If you are going to make statements about what other posters say take more care that your statements are factual.

    Yea, good luck with that suggestion Aileen.

  80. The Japan of today is OK.

    I don’t call them racist.

    They sure as hell were in the WW2 time.

    But no one has any right to move to another country if they’re not wanted.

    The Japanese set the rules as it suits them. It is no one else’s business.

    When I was there, they could not possibly have been kinder.

  81. Phantom

    I am not talking about immigration. The Japanese are perfectly entitled to determine whatever immigration policies they desire. I am referring to an individual who is born in Japan and is allowed to live there. That person should be treated no different from an ethnic Japanese individual. The Japanese may not wish to regard hi as Japanese but he should be permitted to become a citizen with exactly the same voting, employment and other rights. There shouldn’t be second class status WITHIN JAPAN based on race.

  82. Fair enough. But that’s not how they’ve ever done it. They won’t change.

    A child born to say US parents overseas has US citizenship.

    My sister has friends who teach school overseas, and have done so for years. They had their son in China. If they stayed in China for life ( they nearly did ) that child would never have been considered ” Chinese ” by any Chinese friends, by the Chinese govt, or by the parents. The thought is beyond absurd.

    The Western world has very confused thoughts on this subject/

  83. Phantom

    No it doesn’t. Unless you happen to think that the concept of people of Black Hispanic Asian and White European heritage individuals can all be equally and properly regarded as Americans to be ‘confusing’

  84. The Chinese are correct. No Westerner can have Chinese children. This is quite plainly obvious.

  85. America is an immigration country.

    Japan isn’t, and absolutely does not want to be a receiving country, any more than Korea and China want to be.

    It is unhelpful to compare places like Japan with the USA on matters like this.

  86. Phantom

    The thought is beyond absurd.

    why?

    I am British primarily because I was born and brought up in the UK. As it happens so were my parents but that is not the basis of my nationality (beyond the fact of my patents’ nationality is why I was born and brought up where I was. )

  87. Phantom

    Once again I am not talking about immigration ‘rights’.

    Pete

    There is no reason why Western parents whom the Chinese allow to move and emigrate permanently to China cannot have children who will become Chinese nationals. They will of course not be ethnically Chinese, but citizenship and nationality does not have to be the same as race.

  88. I don’t know if they’d ever let too many move there permanently. I don’t think that much of the world does that.

    China’s full. Even more than the UK!

  89. They will of course not be ethnically Chinese, but citizenship and nationality does not have to be the same as race.
    does not have to be?
    is not,

    BTW when I was trying to select this comment my fingers slipped and I ended up with “They” selected and a definition offered for it. I am trying to recreate it.

  90. Oh I did it! I had no idea there was such a facility. I never noticed the option before.

  91. You are in a literal sense correct Aileen, but if a country makes race the basis for citizenship and nationality then it would be legally the same definition but I am saying it does not have to be. Pete’s argument that a Western couple could never have a Chinese baby is true if the Chinese make the race the determining factor but there is no ‘of course’ about it. It is a matter of political choice on behalf of the Chinese authorities.

  92. Allan takes the whole thing too far

    Have a look at our cities, Agit. Somebody has been taking ‘the whole thing too far’ and it certainly isn’t me or people who share my views.

  93. Colm – that Chinese people have Chinese babies is a biological fact and the fact remains regardless of where the baby is born or under which government. Race exists, white people (still) exist, Chinese people exist, black people exist.

  94. Our cities are cleaner more efficient, safer and have a lot higher level and standard of different entertainments, arts and commercial opportunities and housing conditions than they ever were in the grimy seventies. On almost any level they are better places to live. There is a default pessimism about the ‘state of things’ but I am prepared to say that it just isn’t true that things are getting worse.

  95. “Race exists, white people (still) exist, Chinese people exist, black people exist.”

    Well blow me down with a feather. I never knew that. Thanks for that amazing fact Allan !

  96. I didn’t agree with Apartheid, but not all white South Africans were bad to black South Africans.

    Good for you. Unfortunately I wasn’t speaking about you but about how Mike was castigating a system that discriminated against those that were born into a group yet was apparently happy to live (and profit?) from a system in another country that had similar policies.

  97. Colm

    I am saying it does not have to be. Pete’s argument that a Western couple could never have a Chinese baby is true if the Chinese make the race the determining factor

    I disagree. It would be Chinese just not legally recognised by the Chinese regime.

    Phantom
    Just two finger click (equivalent to right click) on the mouse mat. It highlights the word and one of the options is “look up”. If you select it it gives you a definition of the word. I imagine I am one of the few people who never knew that facility existed.

  98. Our cities are cleaner more efficient, safer and have a lot higher level and standard of different entertainments

    Colm – What city are you living in?

  99. Colm

    Is it the best because you are living in it

    or are you living in it because it is the best

    or is it just coincidence ? 😉

  100. Allan, do you make the distinction based solely on race or on further qualification?

    i.e. Is there a difference between the Latvian and the Norwegian?

    Our cities are cleaner more efficient, safer and have a lot higher level and standard of different entertainments, arts and commercial opportunities and housing conditions than they ever were in the grimy seventies

    That is certainly the case in the city I’m originally from.

  101. One of my favourite daft jokes :-

    Fred – “I put manure on my strawberries”
    Bill – “I prefer fresh cream”

  102. Colm – What city are you living in?

    Colm, on August 5th, 2013 at 10:57 PM Said:
    The best city in the world

    Birmingham ? 😉

  103. As I said last night at 8:13 it is only the western world which has gone for a deliberately multicultural approach to society, and that only really got going after WW2 and especially with the establishment of the ECC/EU.
    The rest of the world has stayed essentially the same in terms of population mix. There has been no deliberate policy of inviting other cultures and races to mix in India, China etc. etc.
    And I say why on earth should they?
    Any country has a right to run its affairs as it wants and without worrying what arrogant Europeans might think.
    Why SHOULD the Japanese or ANY race have to adopt policies pleasing to Westerners? I have written before about world views and how the West assumes that their values and practices are the right ones. It is not our place to tell other people how to order their societies.

  104. As I said last night at 8:13 it is only the western world which has gone for a deliberately multicultural approach to society, and that only really got going after WW2 and especially with the establishment of the ECC/EU.
    The rest of the world has stayed essentially the same in terms of population mix. There has been no deliberate policy of inviting other cultures and races to mix in India, China etc. etc.

    and how does that

    answer the question “How is it a FACT that most of the world has EXPRESSED a preference?” and a preference based on race – not nationality not future but race!

    which you were claiming earlier.

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