31 1 min 8 yrs

and here is the news from the Joahnnesburg MandelaBBC office.

US President Barack Obama and first lady Michelle Obama as well as former Presidents George W Bush, Bill Clinton and Jimmy Carter

– UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon and his predecessor Kofi Annan.

– British Prime Minister David Cameron, Deputy Prime Minister Nick Clegg and Labour Party leader Ed Miliband

– French President Francois Hollande and his predecessor Nicolas Sarkozy

– German President Joachim Gauck

– Zimbabwe’s President Robert Mugabe

– Cuban President Raul Castro

are all swanning around in the Soweto mud…………..

 

but….

We can now go live to Cape Town, where our reporter has discovered that the bloke who used to sell orange juice and fruit to one of Mandela’s Robben Island warders’ nephews’ cousins is ready to make a surprise statement on his recollections of seeing the great man as he returned from prison.

 

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31 thoughts on “and on, and on,…….

  1. Phantom

    I think David and Mike are aiming to reach 27 posts – 1 for each year Mandela was in jail. What a touching tribute from them 😉

  2. when they gonna put the prick in the ground?

    I hear they’re going to lay him out for viewing for days.

  3. It’s become global hysteria, pure & simple.
    I tried to find a radio station this morning that carried some local news. No chance.

    (Geologists are seeking a new name for the latest volcanic island to emerge off the coast of Pakistan:
    Any suggestions?)

  4. Listen to a stream of a US radio station. The funeral of Mandela is a big story here, but it isn’t the hysteria that you claim to be having there.

    Bin Laden Island would be my choice.

  5. //Bin Laden Island would be my choice.//

    Maybe in fact that island emerged exactly at the spot where his body was dumped by those “Seals”.
    Which could be interpreted as the Netherworld not wanting him and handing him back, or that He Hath Returned….

  6. Some perspective.

    Mandela wasn’t/ isn’t the only political prisoner by a long shot.

    A martian visiting earth this week, coasting TV channels and perusing papers, would have to conclude that among the items that most interest this planet’s news bureaus is the plight of former political prisoners, especially black ones.

    Well, many Cubans (many of them black) suffered longer and more horrible incarceration in Castro’s KGB-designed dungeons than Nelson Mandela spent in South Africa’s (relatively) comfortable prisons, which were open to inspection by the Red Cross. Castro has never allowed a Red Cross delegation anywhere near his real prisons. Now let’s see if you recognize some of the Cuban ex-prisoners and torture-victims:

    Mario Chanes (30 years), Ignacio Cuesta Valle, (29 years) Antonio López Muñoz, (28 years) in Dasio Hernández Peña (28 years) Dr. Alberto Fibla (28 years) Pastor Macurán (28 years) Roberto Martin Perez (28 years) Roberto Perdomo (28 years) Teodoro González (28 years.) Jose L.Pujals (27 years) Miguel A. Alvarez Cardentey (27 years.) Eusebio Penalver (28 years.)

    http://www.humanevents.com/2013/12/06/caveat-on-nelson-mandela/

  7. “Listen to a stream of a US radio station. The funeral of Mandela is a big story here,

    but it isn’t the hysteria that you claim to be having there.”

    Well it wouldn’t be regarded as hysteria in La La Land” aka Hysteria House now would it?

    You Americans get all reverential over anything built before 1954….

    You’re a great country, but not yet out of your teens.. 🙂

  8. Phantom

    That is an eroneous comparison. Mandela did not get great publicity purely because he spent 27 years in prison, but because of his leadership and symbolic role as the figurehead of the end of Apartheid. In all walks of life across the globe and political spectrum and throughout history some individuals get more publicity than others, not because they have suffered more but because of their influence/power/celebrity.

  9. I don’t think it really is all the media’s fault that Mandela has been praised to the high heavens (before and) since his death. There have been several studies and theories posited as to what characteristics make a leader a good and beloved leader. Timing, of course, has a lot to do with it. Had Mandela been born a decade or two earlier, he would not have come of age at a time when people were seeing the true depravity and cruelty of apartheid. Mass media was coming of age so it became harder for the white S.A. government to whitewash (no pun intended) apartheid. But also Mandela had a unique ability to project warmth, particularly after his death. Personally, I loved when he danced…you could see the joy in his face…and he connected with people in these simple ways…through song and dance. On the other hand, his strength was apparent…his convictions (right or wrong at various times in his life), his perseverance in prison, and his competence/success at carrying out his vision. If you can look past the details, studies show that on a personal level—the ability to project strength and warmth are the two most influential judgments we humans make and success in politics often depends on it. When politicians project competence and conviction but are unable to project a sense of ‘warmth’ they usually aren’t successful. When one can project a sense of warmth…people feel connected to them and sense of trustworthiness. Mandela embodied the ability to project strength and warmth and that’s why people have been able to look past his weaknesses and violent past…at least IMHO. Do you know any failed politicians? Their inability to project warmth and trustiworthiness is problem a big reason for their failure.

  10. But also Mandela had a unique ability to project warmth, particularly after his death. WOOPS! Meant to say “particularly after he left prison”!!!! What a miracle if he does it after death…now then he could be likened to Jesus!

  11. Colm

    But it is worth noting that Cuba shows the same extreme cruelty to nonviolent political prisoners that apartheid South Africa showed to Mandela, and that the left ( the real left, not the way the Axis of Dummy here mangles the word ) doesn’t care about their human rights, or the human rights of other Cubans at all.

  12. //That is an eroneous comparison. Mandela did not get great publicity purely because he spent 27 years in prison//

    It’s also because anti-Apartheid is a great unifying cause; it’s generally supported by all countries and a wide range of political opinion. The system in SA was also an uncomfortable reminder of some of the uglier aspects of our history. It was in a way something that was too easy to be against.

    Phantom’s list is a timely reminder that SA under Apartheid wasn’t the only human rights dump, and the HR situation in Cuba even today is truly catastrophic. People, however, always seem to consider the denial of rights based on race to be much worse than when based on an ideology.

  13. Actually, nobody generally cares about the Cuban political dissidents. It’s not just the Left. The Liberals / Centrists hardly ever speak about them either. They’re not on the radar screen at all.

  14. BTW…I see Obama shook Raul Castro’s hand at Mandela’s service; that should cause a stir amongst some. Castro destroyed the vibrant art culture in Cuba as well.

  15. Phantom

    I would absolutely concur with you that there is a huge degree of hypocrisy and cant amongst the left when it comes to genuinely opposing oppression. The trouble is so many people feel the need to align themsleves with political movement , ideologies and organisations left and right and then feel they have to show loyalty or take sides when in reality everyone should make judgements as individuals and offer praise or contempt accordingly.

  16. //and that the left doesn’t care about their human rights, or the human rights of other Cubans at all.//

    That’s generally true, unfortunately. There are thousands of, usually educated and liberal, Europeans who spend their Euros on relatively cheap holidays in Cuba each year. I’ve spoken to many of them; not one tried to find out anything about the human rights situation when in the country or even showed any interest in the subject.

  17. oh and remember the little boy who had escaped from Cuba with his mother a decade or so ago? It caused a big stir because the US gov’t stormed the home he was staying in in Miami and ripped him out of his aunt’s (?) arms? Well, he’s come of age now and recently commented to the press (and I paraphrase)…I don’t believe in any god (or I have no religion) but I if I did Castro would be my God…blech!

  18. The problem is that human societies cannot cope with confusion or a vacuum of power for very long.
    We must have a sense of direction or it all falls apart.
    Unfortunately as in the animal world, it is the men who are prepared to use violence to impose their will that usually triumph.
    The thinkers and the kind of heart end up as modifiers.
    Whilst Nelson (what an honourable name!) Mandela remained alive he was able to influence things. The plotters and evildoers remained in the shadows.
    Now he has gone I doubt it will be long before the ruthless and shameless emerge.

    We have to recognise the greatness of Mandela. Not many men would have endured such long years of imprisonment without bitterness entering their souls.
    I don’t think I could. He was a great human being.

  19. Now the story in the press is Cameron and Obama taking a “selfie” at the funeral. They really do lack decorum.

  20. Phantom –

    Well, many Cubans (many of them black) suffered longer and more horrible incarceration in Castro’s KGB-designed dungeons than Nelson Mandela spent in South Africa’s (relatively) comfortable prisons, which were open to inspection by the Red Cross. Castro has never allowed a Red Cross delegation anywhere near his real prisons. Now let’s see if you recognize some of the Cuban ex-prisoners and torture-victims:

    I suppose that very few people would recognise any of those names. The thing to do is to ask why.

  21. Colm –

    That is an eroneous comparison. Mandela did not get great publicity purely because he spent 27 years in prison, but because of his leadership and symbolic role as the figurehead of the end of Apartheid.

    Not true.

    Mandela was picked out and chosen to become the anti-apartheid figurehead in the late 1980s. Until then no-one knew what he looked like. Most people had still never heard of him. All of a sudden it’s Wembley gigs to celebrate his birthday and “Free Nelson Mandela”.

    All was all orchestrated and all highly political. Someone else could have been chosen.

  22. I’m ashamed to say that I don’t recognize the names – though I’ve known that the unelected and illegitimate Cuban government has kept ( nonviolent )political prisoners since the early 1960s.

  23. Pete

    What in your statement contradicts mine ?

    I largely agree with you apart from your assertion about his anonymity. He wasn’t unknown at all. I did not have a particular interest in South African politics growing up but I had certainly heard of Mandela and knew what he looked like before the big 70th birthday celebrations. Yes there is no doubt that particular event catapulted him into an even bigger place in the league of world fame and I feel fairly sure that there was a dual purpose in the orchestration of it. In a media age it is easier to get interest in a movement by creating and ‘bigging up’ a leading personality (Ang San Su kyi, Lech Walesa, and most successfully Mandela) but also one who can be sold to the public as Mandela with his genial personality certainly could, but ultimately your vie backs up my argument with Phantom.

    Yes someone else could have been chosen, but thank God it was Mandela. He did what was expected of him at the transfer of power virtually to perfection.

  24. “and have out done you all!”

    That I do not deny. It’s whether you can outlast us or not that counts.

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