162 2 mins 9 yrs

 

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You have to smile at the MSM obfuscation of it all…Sweden’s capitol burns for the SIXTH consecutive night as Muslims riot but through the sanitised prism of the liberal media…….

 

There has been a sixth night of rioting in Sweden’s capital, Stockholm, despite police reinforcements being deployed. Cars were set alight in poor suburbs inhabited largely by (ahem…DV) immigrants, although the unrest was reportedly not as serious as on previous nights. The rioting also spread outside the capital for the first time on Friday, with (Ahem…DV) youths torching vehicles and buildings in two towns.

The US and UK meanwhile warned their citizens to avoid affected areas. The UK Foreign Office advised people to stay away from large gatherings in the Stockholm suburbs of Husby, Hagsatra, Ragsved, Skogas, and to take care and monitor local reports.

Ah, “immigrants”. I see. From all over the world I dare say, and with all kinds of faith, I would imagine. And they are DRIVEN to arson and looting by the rem..stress of  unemployment and lack of understanding by the Swedish natives! Yup, that sounds like the BBC analysis.

Rather than the French “youths” in “les banlieus” the Swedish created this problem, they embraced Muslim immigration and now they get the reward. Burn, baby, burn.

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162 thoughts on “BOILING SWEDES

  1. Watching the beeb news last night and the first three stories…

    The despicable murder of a young man.
    The rioting in Sweden.
    The diverting of a plane from Pakistan.

    ALL had something in common. On the tip of my tongue…

  2. Six nights of diversity!

    What the BBC describes as “not as serious as on previous nights” is 70 fires instead of 90. Typically mendacious reporting.

    Good to see reports of some patriots turning out to defend their society against the invaders.

  3. Most people in the West have lived peaceful lives since ww2, others even longer. The rule of law, civic freedoms and stable, prosperous societies have been pretty much the norm.
    Therefore we are unused to dealing with the kinds of demonstrations we see happening on our streets and towns and cities.
    We haven’t known how to handle it. We have tried to listen and make allowances etc., but I think the penny is starting to drop, and the chaotic instabilities seen abroad is beginning to infect the West too. Will our people lie down and let it all roll over us, or will there be a serious backlash across Europe?

  4. Paul McMahon –

    No.

    There should be no mosque in NI. There should be no violation of property rights against it. Politicians shouldn’t get their knickers in a twist over retaliations.

    I note that we’ve these retaliations, Leftists are suddenly not so keen to understand the causes of crime.

  5. So you disagree with it?

    Is this not just an act of ‘some patriots turning out to defend their society against the invaders’?

  6. I was in Sweden the summer before last and stayed with a few different friends. One was a lesbian and another received asylum there from a South American country (a socialist who sought refuge there before socialism was acceptable under the regime that formerly ran his country). In essence, my hosts were people to the left of Swedish center. Many discussions were had about Muslim immigrants who not only did not assimilate (of course they wouldn’t—part of the reason they sought asylum was so that they could practice their particular brand of Islam) but were hostile to ‘the natives’. And of course, it’s a country where more than most others, women are men’s equal…not so with Islam. Sweden’s problem is very much like the problem in Holland, which was highlighted in the news a few years ago (threats and killings)…you have an extremely progressive country with people who are taught to avoid confrontations and be tolerant who have now to live side by side with people who think their culture and traditions are sinful at the very least and a direct affront to their beliefs and more at most. Trouble was predicted though I understand it is not widespread. With that said, while venturing out and about in Stockholm, I came to rely on 7-11 staff who were mostly Muslim men…their English was excellent and some had been to the states. They always went above and beyond to help me get where I was going. 7-11 became a beacon for me when I was lost (which was often).

  7. I should have distinguished between immigrants and asylum seekers. There is a difference between your run-of-the-mill immigrant and assylum seekers/refugees. Will come back to that later.

  8. Subby62 – why SHOULD there be muslims in Northern Ireland? What does islam bring to NI that it needs? (Try to think of tangible things and not the usual PC buzzwords)

  9. Good to see reports of some patriots turning out to defend their society against the invaders.

    Your support for the IRA surprises me.

  10. Why SHOULD there be muslims in Northern Ireland?

    Because we supposedly live in a society which respects freedom of religion?

  11. Because we supposedly live in a society which respects freedom of religion?
    But that has to be across the board Paul. If you have some Muslims who don’t respect other religions, don’t respect your values or take themselves off to fight wars in other countries, then what?

  12. Paul – islam is not indigenous so why is it in NI? Taigs and prods did not suddenly convert to islam so it is brought in by muslims, but why are muslims there – what is the imperative for a country to allow entry of islam?

  13. Catholic and Protestants weren’t there either at one point, but now they are. So what’s your point?

  14. “We have them here in NI they are called the Orange Order.”
    I think/I know I have said before that I disagree with acts of provocation from any side.
    If it were me I’d be looking for somewhere else to live until the Recriminations ended.
    I see no point in staying in a place where one is forever in danger of sinking into the Bog of Despair.
    No offence intended to anyone. That’s how I feel.

  15. But that has to be across the board Paul

    No it doesn’t there has to be a set of principles and individual either adhere to those principles or they don’t.

    Paul – islam is not indigenous so why is it in NI?

    There are many things which are not indigenous to N.I. Allan. In going to extremes one could suggest the English language for example, should that be banned too? (that’s rhetorical)

    Do you condone the act of vandalism on the property Allan?

  16. “Catholic and Protestants weren’t there either at one point, but now they are. So what’s your point?”

    Please point to a Muslim country anywhere where Catholics and Protestants are treated with the same respect as the Muslim majority…
    Anywhere Petr.

  17. After you so that speak of the treatment of Hindu and Buddhist minorities in muslim lands.

    It isnt pretty.

  18. Hindus and Buddhists are also badly treated, but Northern Ireland is mostly Christian/nominal Christian/Atheist and Agnostic.

  19. Northern Ireland is mostly Christian/nominal Christian/Atheist and Agnostic.

    But they were imported from Rome & England Agi so, according to Allan, they should be banned as they’re not indigenous.

  20. You mean the religion was?
    Not the people.
    And if you go down the influence of religion as being evil or imposed, you really are asking for trouble!
    In any case Christianity was not imposed initially. The Gospel was preached and your average bog standard Irishman either rejected it or accepted it.
    NO ARMIES WERE USED IN THE SPREADING OF CHRISTIANITY TO THE BRITISH ISLES!

    On the other hand…

    ” From his new base in Medina, Muhammad sent his followers out to raid the merchant caravans of the Pagan Arabs. In response, the Pagans began guarding their caravans with armed soldiers. In 624 AD the Muslims attacked and defeated a heavily guarded merchant caravan and took many of the pagans captive, this incident is known as the Battle of Badr and was the first major battle in the Muslim conquest of Arabia. (See map 1 – 624 AD).

    Over the next few years Muhammad expanded his territorial control over the area to the north of Medina and waged war with a number of both Pagan and Jewish Arab tribes. (See map 2 – 628 AD)
    Muhammad promised his followers eternal paradise in the afterlife if they fought for his cause.(Quran 4:74) As Muhammad’s power and influence grew, relations with the three Jewish tribes of Medina began to deteriorate, Muhammad solved this by expelling the first two tribes from Medina (the Banu Qaynuqa in 624 AD and the Banu Nadir in 625 AD) and then massacring the final tribe (the Banu Qurayza in 627 AD). In 630 AD, Muhammad conquered his home town of Mecca and over the next two years he sent his armies all over Western Arabia to conquer the remaining Pagan tribes. Muhammad demolished the Pagan temples of his defeated enemies (Sahih Bukhari Book 59, #641) and refused to accept their surrender until they agreed to convert to his new religion. (Husayn, pg. 281) (see map 3 – 632 AD) For a more detailed interactive map of Muhammad’s conquest of Arabia”

    http://explorethemed.com/RiseIslam.asp

  21. NO ARMIES WERE USED IN THE SPREADING OF CHRISTIANITY TO THE BRITISH ISLES!

    No? Presumably you haven’t heard about either the Battle of the Boyne or the Penal Laws then?

    Anyway, I’m just applying Allan’s ‘indigenous’ test.

  22. “But they were imported from Rome & England Agi so, according to Allan, they should be banned as they’re not indigenous.”

    The Celts converted to Christianity, the indigenous people are Christian, it is a Christian land. Mosques shouldn’t be there.

  23. The indigenous people are Christian

    Indigenous peoples didn’t exist before Saint Patrick?.

    It was imported from Rome.

  24. I’m telling you that Christianity in Ireland was imported from Rome and is therefore not ‘indigenous’

  25. I’m alluding to Allan’s point of banning a religion because it’s not indigenous.

    Are you being deliberately disingenuous or is it unintentional?

  26. Paul – I’m not intending to ban islam but I’m simply asking what the benefits to a country are of importing its adherents. Would you deal with that particular point?

  27. This seems to be representative of the views of those who defend the presence of islam in the UK:

    FewsOrange, on May 24th, 2013 at 2:28 PM Said:

    The UK’s muslim population is a direct result of its colonising past. The vast majority of muslims in the UK originated from former British colonies.

    So how did so many muslims get into Sweden and Norway? I don’t recall them having any colonies in muslim lands.

  28. Paulio,
    The English (as in Norman English) invaded Ireland , and in 1177, Prince John Lackland was made Lord of Ireland by his father Henry II of England at the Council of Oxford.

    So let’s be clear, the English at this time were Catholics. Bad? Not so bad??

    The Protestants got going during the reign of Henry the VIIIth and then of course Oliver Cromwell was extremely harsh towards the Irish.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Ireland

    The point is though that Christianity came to Ireland without violence. What is done is done and can’t be undone. Christianity was the religion which has shaped Ireland since the 5th Century, and the Catholic church has dominated it.
    Islam has not been a friend of Christianity and vice versa. If you look around the Islamic world you will not see the freedoms and equality which we enjoy in the West.
    So you have to take it on faith that an evergrowing Islamic presence in Ireland is not going to affect North and South as it has elsewhere in Europe.

  29. Pete Moore

    You appear to be arguing against freedom to worship sky god of choice. Jews are not “indigenous” to the British Isles. So should all syangogues be closed along with the mosques?

  30. Peter –

    You’re correct. Jews and judaism are not indigenous to our land.

    However, despite the kind of legitimate complaints that the Germans had against Jews, I wouldn’t close synogogues.

  31. The problem with jews is their dual-nationality. Most jews would describe themselves as Zionists which means Israel First to the detriment of the host nation, and jews did warn about this in 1919. I don’t see a problem with deporting Zionists to Israel. Here’s one:

    http://www.aipac.org/pc/videos/2013/speeches/sacks

    Friends, AIPAC, you deliver. You deliver—(applause)—a strong Israel and a strong Jewish people. May God bless you and may you continue to bless the people in the state of Israel.

  32. Now, the big question!!! Who funds the organisations which import the detritus of the 3rd-world into Sweden? Note that we should all be aware that Paideia is busily arranging for Sweden to become ‘multi-cultural’: anybody who disputes that will be shown the relevant link.

    http://www.paideia-eu.org/about/supporters/

    That’s a ‘who’s who’ of organised jewry. For example, one of the patrons of Paideia is the Jewish Agency for Israel. Why is this ‘agency’ driving the demographic destruction of Sweden? This is their mission statement:

    Established in 1929, The Jewish Agency for Israel has worked to secure a vibrant Jewish future. The Jewish Agency was instrumental in founding and building the State of Israel and we continue to serve as the official link between the Jewish state and Jewish communities everywhere. This global partnership has enabled us to address the Jewish People’s greatest challenges in every generation.

    Agit – you’re the site’s Shabbat goy: can you help me here as I’m none the wiser?

  33. Peter – explain why the comments to which you refer are ‘anti-semitic’?

  34. Because they show a hatred of jews and judaism. You have loads of previous on this. Pete Moore has less, but if the cap fits, wear it.

  35. Paul
    Interesting thought –
    “Because we supposedly live in a society which respects freedom of religion?”

    Should we respect a supremacist religion that inspires evil around the world, is intolerant of non-believers, women and homosexuals and whose followers insist on following brutal laws laid down 13 centuries ago (even when living by choice in a Western democracy)? Surely respect should be reserved for those who earn it?

    David Cameron tells us that the Woolwich attack was a betrayal of Islam and there is nothing in Islam that justifies this truly dreadful act. He appears not to read about the many atrocities carried out daily around the world by Muslims in the name of Islam, nor the Quran and Hadiths.

    Unfortunately the dominant interpretations of Islam around the world today seem to be extreme, supremacist and intolerant but rooted firmly in the writings and teachings of the religion.

    When the supposed majority of peaceful, modern thinking Muslims publicly admit the awful problems with Islam and work with non-believers to eradicate the brutal values of ancient times which it enshrines, then these Muslims will be due great respect. The task of reforming Islam seems impossible of course and renouncing Islam en masse would seem more logical to a non religious mind.

    A final thought. It goes without saying that the same standards should apply to any religion or other organisation which promotes violence, gangsterism and intolerance.

  36. Peter – which is the offending text posted on this thread which reveals my “hatred”? And is the text which you cite factually incorrect?

  37. Daphne, on May 26th, 2013 at 2:11 AM Said:
    Atheism sounds more attractive by the day.

    Try it, it’s very liberating

  38. OT

    Harri,
    how’s the escape route going? You may have to be careful. The French police have been tightening up security again around Calais.. 🙂

  39. Popeye.
    Good post. I fail to understand why western leaders choose to ignore the evidence of Islamic unrest and the sheer ferocity of violence some groups manifest towards other Muslims.
    Iraq is a fine example, and Syria of course. Where is the peace there? Muslims living in the West tell us that Islam is the religion of peace, but the reality is quite different.
    In fact Islam is where the Christian (state) church was very many centuries, because (state) Christianity was the expression and projection of national power. The Holy Roman Empire is one manifestation.

    It also strikes me that this blind belief in the ability of western culture to assimilate radically different religious groups into their own cultures is as arrogant as believing we can go into Muslim nations and impose our western democracy and value system on them.
    It IS arrogance, especially considering that when Muslims point to the corruption and evil in what they regard as Christian nations, they are quite right.

  40. Popeye

    The phrase you quoted concerned respect for freedom of religon, which is a different thing to respect for religion or all religions or even the people of those religions.

  41. Aileen
    I used Paul’s comment as an “in” to make a point. But your distinction brings up another thought.

    Should freedom of religion in a Western society extend to a religion which still today inspires millions of its followers to extreme intolerance and often barbaric violence? It is an awkward question. If it was not categorised as a religion, but simply a big gang, would it be treated differently? At the very least, we should have the freedom to discuss these issues fully without fear of arrest for insulting the religion, or indeed fear of a brutal murder at the hands of the followers of the religion.

    I do not think it is unreasonable to demand more positive action, from the Muslim communities living in Western societies, to reform their religion of perpetual outrage. Possibly this should be a condition of enjoying religious freedom which is not reciprocated in many Muslim lands.

  42. Popeye

    Freedom of religion is freedom of religion and freedom of associated action as long as you don’t break the law.

    There should be no conditions on enjoying religious freedom within the law.

  43. Aileen
    The sort of teaching that intentionally incites people to violence should not be within the law. It may be that new laws are necessary to clamp down on new or increased violent problems imported with new religious communities. The law should be applied rigorously without special exemptions or leniency. If certain crimes are prevalent in certain communities, they should be targeted by police action, with explanations.

    With regard to Islam, many devout Muslims believe they are at war with Western secular societies. This changes the stakes.

  44. Popeye

    I don’t disagree (and incitement is against the law). The issue has to be the law they break not the religion they are.

  45. “It is in the nature of Islam to dominate, not to be dominated, to impose its law on all nations and to extend its power to the entire planet.” —Muslim Brotherhood founder Hassan al-Banna

    Act accordingly.

  46. The MB haven’t done a great job. Hassan would be disappointed. That said, that quote surprises me. Banna was basically an Egyptian nationalist.

    In other news…

  47. Aileen
    Just to follow a line of thought. Let’s say a modern secular society allows mass immigration of people of a radically different culture and religion. Large numbers of these newcomers consider their ancient religious laws trump any laws of their new homeland. These religious laws were written 13 centuries ago in a barbaric world and allow, even promote, intolerant behaviour long considered unacceptable in their new homeland.

    Over time, areas of the secular society become dominated by the newcomers and their descendants who increasingly live according to their religious laws, regardless of the laws of the land. What if, even after compromising many existing laws, the police and tax authorities find themselves unable to enforce the laws enacted by Parliament on the newcomers, who still enjoy the benefits built up by generations of work and sacrifice in the secular society?

    Do the longer established people simply allow themselves to be used in this way to avoid upsetting the newcomers? What happens when the law cannot be enforced and areas become dangerous for non-believers and police?

  48. Again we return to the issue of
    “What is a citizen?”
    Citizenship carries responsibilities as well as conferring privileges. A person who claims to be fleeing persecution and seeks refuge in a western culture cannot be allowed to participate in wars abroad or seek to undermine the very freedoms he enjoys in his/her adopted home.
    Neither can it be right to allow immigrants to set up their own “mini country” within the host country or to make religious demands upon the host culture. There has to be a manifest willingness to at least outwardly integrate, learn the language and observe our laws.
    The Jews have done this over the centuries. The devout may isolate themselves in parts of London, but they do not seek to insult or overthrow us, most Jews observe their faith to varying degrees or none at all. Many Jews have served with distinction in our armed services in defence of this nation. To me that’s the acceptable way forward.

  49. The huge majority of Jews in America are well integrated, work and live with the rest of us, and have lots of non Jewish friends.

    The super duper Holy Joe Orthodox Hasids keep aoart, and are prone to scam welfare, as they do in Israel.

  50. Ah,
    but who GOT them all over to America Phantom?
    Who was behind that eh?

    Cue Allan….

  51. Jews are the most cliquey and clannish group within western societies. They use their white skins to infiltrate the power structures of the white countries and bring about mass immigration, degradation of society through pornography, homosexuality and destruction of Christianity. They have effective dual-citizenship and owe their loyalty to another country.

  52. Again we return to the issue of
    “What is a citizen?”
    Citizenship carries responsibilities as well as conferring privileges.

    Absolutely correct Agit8ed!

  53. Allan@Aberdeen, on May 26th, 2013 at 2:54 PM Said:

    Jews are the most cliquey and clannish group within western societies. They use their white skins to infiltrate the power structures of the white countries and bring about mass immigration, degradation of society through pornography, homosexuality and destruction of Christianity. They have effective dual-citizenship and owe their loyalty to another country.

    I’ll say this about you my son.
    You have a great sense of timing and drama…

    Still boring though.. 🙂

  54. Agit8ed
    But how do you persuade unwilling people to live up to their responsibilities?

  55. Allan,
    ” They have effective dual-citizenship and owe their loyalty to another country.”

    Surely you’re not referring to Germany?

  56. Agit – here’s a question which I put here at 11.48pm yesterday which you didn’t answer so I’ll put it to you again.

    Who funds the organisations which import the detritus of the 3rd-world into Sweden? Note that we should all be aware that Paideia is busily arranging for Sweden to become ‘multi-cultural’: anybody who disputes that will be shown the relevant link.

    http://www.paideia-eu.org/about/supporters/

    That’s a ‘who’s who’ of organised jewry. For example, one of the patrons of Paideia is the Jewish Agency for Israel. Why is this ‘agency’ driving the demographic destruction of Sweden? This is their mission statement:

    Established in 1929, The Jewish Agency for Israel has worked to secure a vibrant Jewish future. The Jewish Agency was instrumental in founding and building the State of Israel and we continue to serve as the official link between the Jewish state and Jewish communities everywhere. This global partnership has enabled us to address the Jewish People’s greatest challenges in every generation.

    Agit – you’re the site’s Shabbat goy: can you help me here as I’m none the wiser?

  57. “But how do you persuade unwilling people to live up to their responsibilities?”

    If they are native born, nominally or otherwise influenced and adhering to the values of their culture; in other words white British people, then the law deals with them.

    If they are un-integrated immigrants, “even unto the second or third generation”, and they scorn your values, scorn your laws and seek to overthrow your country, then they are not proper citizens. They are fifth columnists or traitors, and we should deal with them as such.

  58. Agit – why would the Israeli government, through various proxies, be funding the demographic destruction of Sweden?

  59. Popeye

    If a country allows mass immigration to the point that it distabilises society then that will be the consequence.

    Once it accepts someone into the country then those people should have the same freedoms as anyone else.

    Immigration should be controlled but an immigration policy should not be based on race or “not Muslims”. There are nasty things advocated in the Old Testament but that doesn’t mean that Jews or Christians should be denied religious freedom.

  60. Allan,
    I don’t know where you or your informants get this stuff from.
    There is no conspiracy to undermine us or Sweden or any other nation! And don’t forget that there are an awful lot of Jewish people living in those countries, and they will suffer alongside everyone else.

  61. Good luck with that.

    Controlled how?

    How many, if any, should be allowed into the UK ?

    How may, if any, from bad countries?

  62. Popeye

    Let me make one thing clear from the outset, my views on religion are quite well known on ATW, but I fing Islam particulary distasteful.

    The point that I’m making is that it can be argued that the three prominant books on religion all contain quite graphic violence and the argument regarding incitement is largely a matter of personal interpretation.

    Muslims themselves have told us that this is the case, surely they are best placed to interpret their religion or are the lying and if so why?

    What I’m saying is that if some have the freedom to worship then this should be a uniform right extended to everyone insofar that doesn’t impede the rights or freedoms of others. If a crime is committed in the name of Allah then the guilty individual(s) should be held accountable as individuals. When fundamental extreme Christians in the US have attacked / murdered family planning centres / staff they have been rightly dealt with as individuals and not as ‘Christians’. The same should apply to others.

    Neither can it be right to allow immigrants to set up their own “mini country” within the host country

    That’s an interesting one. The only example I can think of was a handful of self appointed eejits in Tower Hamlets declaring it an Islamic Sharia Republic or some other such cobblers. You make the comparison of adherents to Judaism integrating with their host nation regarding the language etc. I presume that you’ve never been to the Jewish ghetto in Venice where the signage is in Hebrew, the restaurants kosher and the lingua franca is English, (oddly spoken with a mid Atlantic accent).

    The point is though that Christianity came to Ireland without violence

    Is it? well you must have changed it from

    NO ARMIES WERE USED IN THE SPREADING OF CHRISTIANITY TO THE BRITISH ISLES!

    Which you made very forcibly in caps earlier.

    I have given you two examples where there were.

  63. Agit – if you open the link below, you shall see the backers of Paideia which is a jewish organisation for the multi-culturisation of Sweden. The leader of that organisation is Barbara Specter whom you have seen previously linked. She says:

    I think there’s a resurgence of antisemitism because at this point in time Europe has not yet learned how to be multicultural, and I think we’re gonna be part of the throes of that transformation, which must take place. Europe has not yet learned how to be multicultural. Europe is not going to be the monolithic societies that they once were in the last century. Jews are going to be at the center of that. It’s a huge transformation for Europe to make. They are now going into a multicultural mode, and Jews will be resented because of our leading role. But without that leading role, and without that transformation, Europe will not survive

    I’m sure that Europe will survive perfectly well without jews organising an invasion of blacks and muslims, but I digress. Of more importance is who funds Paideia so here it is:

    http://www.paideia-eu.org/about/supporters/

    That’s a ‘who’s who’ of organised jewry. For example, one of the patrons of Paideia is the Jewish Agency for Israel. Why is this ‘agency’ driving the demographic destruction of Sweden?

  64. Let me make one thing clear from the outset, my views on religion are quite well known on ATW, but I fing Islam particulary distasteful.

    Paul – that is an anti-Islamic remark! You have form on this.

  65. Paul – that is an anti-Islamic remark! You have form on this.

    It’s not, it’s critical of religion and I have form on being critical of religion but not on being anti – Islam.

  66. Aileen –

    “Immigration should be controlled but an immigration policy should not be based on race or “not Muslims”.”

    Why not?

  67. “Neither can it be right to allow immigrants to set up their own “mini country” within the host country.”

    This is the case in Sweden apparently. I can’t remember the names of the towns that were mentioned—there were two though.

  68. Pete

    Because ” all religions are equal ”

    Many here have no idea of the situation you are in

    No clue at all.

  69. Paul – that’s fine, and I don’t disagree. I find Judaism particularly distasteful. Are you OK with that?

  70. I find Judaism particularly distasteful. Are you OK with that?

    I’ve no problem with you finding Judaism distasteful but I do have a problem with you finding adherents to Judaism distasteful.

  71. Paul,
    I wrote you a long response and it has disappeared.
    Main points:
    Which army accompanied St Patrick in the 5th Century to impose Christianity on the Irish?

    Ditto England.

    There is absolutely NO justification to be found in the New Testament for killing people who disagree with Christianity,
    nor for using violence to make converts
    nor for killing other Christians.
    Venice: been there many times but never knew there was a Jewish ghetto there. However the answer to your questions may be in the word “ghetto”.
    Anyway this is irrelevant as Venice is not a part of the British Isles which is where we are talking about.

  72. Paul McMahon –

    “Because you can’t generalise a whole race/religion/nation?”

    Well you can, but so what either way? A few decades ago our immigration policy generalised about Germans, Italians and the Japanese.

    “But Pete”, you say, “that was about national survival.”

    Exactly.

  73. Allan,
    I opened the link I found Natan as one of the contributors.
    http://www.natan.org/cgi-bin/index.pl

    It said in its blurb,
    “In a Jewish context, giving circles provide an excellent access point to Jewish life and a way of exploring and strengthening members’ Jewish identities. They bring people together around the Jewish values of tzedakah (philanthropy) and tikkun olam (repairing the world), creating caring, generous communities of people who think deeply and act strategically about the challenges facing the Jewish world.”
    What is wrong with that?

  74. “Because you can’t generalise a whole race/religion/nation?”
    To slow a rising number of asylum applications in the RoI, they created a list of safe countries of origin and began prioritizing applications accordingly. They also prioritize and accept workers from the EU countries before other countries.

  75. The problem is that even western countries have large populations from bad, virulent cultures.

    Who can also enter the US without a visa, too,

    How does that one get solved?

  76. Which army accompanied St Patrick in the 5th Century to impose Christianity on the Irish?

    None but Protestanism was forced on the native Irish through violence and government sanctioned force of arms via the Penal Laws.

    Protestantism is a denomination of Christianity isn’t it?

    There is absolutely NO justification to be found in the New Testament for killing people who disagree with Christianity

    That’s why I said the three prominant books. The Bible isn’t just the New Testament you know.

    Venice: been there many times but never knew there was a Jewish ghetto there. However the answer to your questions may be in the word “ghetto”.
    Anyway this is irrelevant as Venice is not a part of the British Isles which is where we are talking about.

    Why should the answer to my question be in ghetto? There are amny places which could be described as ghettos, (including Brixton)and if you’re referring only to Britan then make that clear instead of referring to an ‘adopted home’

    http://www.ghetto.it/ghetto/en/index.asp

  77. Well you can, but so what either way?

    Well tou can’t Pete but there’s no argument against ‘so what?’It’s a subjective opinion not based on logic.

    They also prioritize and accept workers from the EU countries before other countries.

    I’d suggest that’s because of the free movement of Euro citizens amongst the various states Mairin.

  78. I realize that, Paul. But the RoI has also begun to limit those immigrants. Originally, during the boom, they allowed unskilled workers to fill the low-paying jobs. Now, they are limiting immigration to skilled laborers.

  79. Limiting immigration to specific skills or professions is a recognised international norm.

  80. Right, and though not stated openly, it is also a way to control immigration by race/religion/nation. It’s an open secret.

  81. What is wrong with that?

    Agit – why is Natan funding an organisation which is destroying Sweden?

  82. It is also a way to control immigration by race/religion/nation.

    I don’t see how limiting immigration to skills and professions controls racial / religious / national immigration. If we take medicine for example, Indians are well represented within doctors and Phillipinos within nursing.

  83. “Phantom, on May 26th, 2013 at 5:12 PM Said:
    The problem is that even western countries have large populations from bad, virulent cultures. Who can also enter the US without a visa, too, How does that one get solved?

    Illegal immigration presents additional problems and solutions. What groups are you talking about?

  84. I covered that in my earlier point.
    Didn’t you read it?
    Go read it!
    NOW!! 🙂

    I have also covered the fact that the New Testament doesn’t authorise or condone the things that have been done in the name of Christianity. Quite right the NT is the other half of the Christian Bible, but it doesn’t alter the fact that Christianity doesn’t advocate killing its enemies or non believers.

    Venice:

    http://www.sacred-destinations.com/italy/venice-ghetto
    Read the darn link!

    and another one,
    http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/vjw/Venice.html

    “While Jews did not settle in Venice until the 13th century, many Jewish merchants and moneylenders visited and worked in the city beginning with the 10th century. Jews were mentioned in documents in 945 and 992 forbidding Venetian captains from accepting Jews onboard their ships. In 1252, Jews were not allowed to settle in the main part of the city, so they settled on the island of Spinaulunga (also spelled Spinalonga) which later became Giudecca.

    The Senate decided to expel the Jews from the city in 1394 due to fears of Jewish encroachment in certain economic spheres. They were allowed to work in the city for limited two-week intervals. Those who were not moneylenders were allowed to remain in the city, albeit with certain restrictions. Jews were forced to wear various markings on their clothing to identify themselves as Jews. In 1394 they had to wear a yellow badge, it was changed to a yellow hat in 1496 and to a red hat in 1500. Other anti-Jewish laws including the prohibition against owning land (enacted in 1423) and from building a synagogue (enacted in 1426). On occasion, Jews were forced to attend Christian services or become baptized. Anti-Jewish feelings were prevalent and three Jews died in a blood libel in 1480 and more died after another libel in 1506.

    Today Venice has a Jewish population of about 500 peoples, only 30 of them live in the former ghetto. The ghetto houses all of the city’s major Jewish institutions. The community is officially Orthodox. Jews are prominent in business and as doctors, but no longer are involved in the banking industry.

    Venice is the only Italian city where one can find an intact ghetto that has remained unchanged since its founding. The site is so prominent in the city’s history that there is a water taxi stop that lists the ghetto (in Italian and Hebrew) as one of the nearby sites and, at night, a neon sign with Hebrew letters is turned on above the dock.

  85. Right, and I don’t believe Indians and Philipinos have presented much of a problem to their host countries. They’re desirable so they’re allowed in. They’re given priority.

  86. Pakistan is the belly of the beast.

    There are large numbers of descendants of Pakistan nationals, as well as others with links to bad countries, who can ebter the US without a visa requirement. This is a major issue that has been noted, and which ultimately may make the visa waiver program unsustainable.

    Most illegal immigration is from Mexico. A problem, but not really a security problem. I’ve not heard of Mexicans trying to blow up my subways. I have heard many reports of people from the RofP who wished to do so.

  87. I’ve no problem with you finding Judaism distasteful but I do have a problem with you finding adherents to Judaism distasteful.

    Paul – people who are adherents and PRACTITIONERS of a vile ideology are distasteful. Ordinary muslims and jews do not put into practice the vile aspects of their nominal religion but there are some who do. Unfortunately the great majority ‘go with the flow’ and do nothing to oppose the evil aspects of their ideology which is why the Old Testament and Koran mean that Judaism and islam will continue to wreak havoc among peoples who would normally be at peace, such as Swedes.

  88. Quite right the NT is the other half of the Christian Bible, but it doesn’t alter the fact that Christianity doesn’t advocate killing its enemies or non believers.

    Good, I’m glad you’ve admitted that so please stop being selective and only speaking about the NT when the other half of the Christian Bible advocates some ferocious violence along with other unsavoury things.

    What’s your point with the links? I’ve been to the place and know it’s history. What’s the point that you’re trying to make re the Venice ghetto and adherents to Judaism integrating with their host nation regarding the language etc?

  89. “Agit – why is Natan funding an organisation which is destroying Sweden?”

    Allan,
    Your remorseless (and pointless) questioning puts me in mind of this…

  90. Paul
    OK. As I have said, I agree that all gangs deliberately promoting intolerance should be tackled, not just Islam.
    Aileen
    You seem more than tolerant, in fact suicidal.

    One problem seems that the loyalty of most Muslims lies with their religion first, regardless of what is right. The scale of the problems caused worldwide by Islam are immense and I do not believe this is comparable to modern day Christianity. The laws in Western societies are already unenforceable on Muslims. These more enlightened laws owe their origins in large part to Christianity being subjected to reformation.

    I have not heard anyone suggest any practical way to combat the problems with Islam. What I am suggesting is that Muslims themselves, especially those who have chosen to take advantage of the benefits of living in Western democracies, should take more responsibility for reforming their religion.

  91. Most illegal immigration is from Mexico. A problem, but not really a security problem.

    Hmmm… not a security problem? Mexico wants to take back from the US by colonisation the lands which were lost during the period of American expansion, and this means about five states including California. I would have thought that to be a huge security problem.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reconquista_(Mexico)

  92. “Good, I’m glad you’ve admitted that so please stop being selective and only speaking about the NT when the other half of the Christian Bible advocates some ferocious violence along with other unsavoury things. ”

    Paul,
    your ignorance is showing again!
    The Old Testament is the history, prophecies, poems and stories of the Jews from whence came Jesus my Saviour.
    The New Testament is the story of Jesus, His birth life and ministry followed by the birth of the Church and the teachings of the Apostles.
    Quite different.

    “What’s your point with the links? I’ve been to the place and know it’s history. What’s the point that you’re trying to make re the Venice ghetto and adherents to Judaism integrating with their host nation regarding the language etc?”

    Answer:
    (same answer)

    “Venice is the only Italian city where one can find an intact ghetto that has remained unchanged since its founding. The site is so prominent in the city’s history that there is a water taxi stop that lists the ghetto (in Italian and Hebrew) as one of the nearby sites and, at night, a neon sign with Hebrew letters is turned on above the dock.
    If you read the links you would see that in fact the Jews WEREN’T integrated into Venice. They were forced OUTSIDE of the city into a ghetto. They paid taxes to the Venetians in order to live and trade there, they paid for (Christian) guards to patrol the boundaries.

    Again,
    “The site is so prominent in the city’s history that there is a water taxi stop that lists the ghetto (in Italian and Hebrew) as one of the nearby sites and, at night, a neon sign with Hebrew letters is turned on above the dock.”

    It was a ghetto. It still IS a ghetto in the historical sense of the word.

  93. The Old Testament is the history, prophecies, poems and stories of the Jews from whence came Jesus my Saviour

    So? Are you suggesting that the OT is irrelevant to Christianity?

    It was a ghetto. It still IS a ghetto in the historical sense of the word

    What has that got to do with Judaism integrating with their host nation regarding the language etc?

  94. Agit – I’ve shown from source material that a jewish organisation in Sweden is at the forefront of the importation of muslims into Sweden, a country with no imperial or historical ties to the muslim world. The leader of that organisation has stated that jews have a leading role in the imposition of multi-culturism upon Sweden. The organisation (Paideia) is funded by jewish groups, some of which are backed by the Israeli government. This would appear to make it jewish policy to import islam into Sweden – and you have not actually disputed the facts as shown.

    Do you agree that jews are playing the leading role in bringing muslims into Sweden? If not, show me why not. And here is how they do it.

    http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fobekvamasanningar.com%2Fjudar-i-sverige%2F

  95. Paul,
    I shall say this only once.
    In the first place I posited the Jews as an example of a different race which had successfully integrated into Britain, whilst showing loyalty to Britain but retaining their identity.
    You then brought up the Venice ghetto thing ..
    “You make the comparison of adherents to Judaism integrating with their host nation regarding the language etc. I presume that you’ve never been to the Jewish ghetto in Venice where the signage is in Hebrew, the restaurants kosher and the lingua franca is English, (oddly spoken with a mid Atlantic accent).”

    And I used the links to show that they were not ALLOWED to integrate… Hence they were assigned to a ghetto..
    Lastly,
    The Old Testament is the BACKGROUND to Christianity. It puts it in historical context.
    The Old Testament has value for Christians, it gives us the story of God’s interventions in human history, it gives us the 10 commandments, but it is not our guidebook in the sense that the New Testament is.

  96. And I used the links to show that they were not ALLOWED to integrate

    Yeah, and a lot of things change in five hundred years.

    The Old Testament is the BACKGROUND to Christianity. It puts it in historical context

    Is the God in the OT the same God as in the NT?

  97. And I used the links to show that they were not ALLOWED to integrate… Hence they were assigned to a ghetto..

    What nonsense. Jews demanded to be allowed to establish their own ghettoes which would ensure their segregation from goyim to whom the Talmud forbids selling of property.

    http://iamthewitness.com/books/Douglas.Reed/The.Controversy.of.Zion/15.The.Talmud.and.the.Ghettoes.htm

    In ancient Alexandria (the New York of its day) and in medieval Cairo and Cordova the Jewish quarters were established at the insistence of the rabbis, intent on keeping their flock isolated from others. In 1084 the Jews of Speyer petitioned the ruling German prince to set up a ghetto; in 1412, at Jewish request, a ghetto law was enacted throughout Portugal. The erection of the ghetto walls in Verona and Mantua was for centuries celebrated annually by the Jews there in a festival of victory (Purim). The ghettoes of Russia and Poland were an essential and integral part of the Talmudic organization and any attempt to abolish them would have been denounced as persecution.

    When the Roman ghetto was destroyed at Mussolini’s order in the early 1930’s the Jewish press (as Mr. Bernard J. Brown records) lamented the event in such words as these:

    “One of the most unique phenomena of Jewish life in Goluth is gone. Where but a few months ago a vibrant Jewish life was pulsating, there now remains a few half-destroyed buildings as the last vestige of the quondam ghetto. It has fallen victim to the Fascist passion for beauty and under Mussolini’s order the ghetto has been razed. . .” . The implication of this is that the razing of the ghetto was “Fascism”, just as the original creation of ghettoes (at Jewish demand) is presented as persecution by the Zionist historians of today.

  98. Smarting?

    You asked a stupid question .. so no, not really

    Smarting wears off, being a twat doesn’t 😉

  99. Pauly,

    I have come to the conclusion you like arguing nearly as much as I do. 🙂

  100. Anyway, I have to be up early to do a days graft .. to help keep the likes of the lazy bone idle scrounging Anjem Choudry … the lazy bone idle scrounging scumbag

  101. You wanna phone a friend?

    He aint got any 😉

    Now I will get the last word in .. i am going to sleep 🙂

  102. Allan.
    A ghetto was defined as
    “GHETTO, urban section serving as compulsory residential quarter for Jews. Generally surrounded by a wall shutting it off from the rest of the city, except for one or more gates, the ghetto remained bolted at night. The origin of this term has been the subject of much speculation. It was probably first used to describe a quarter of Venice situated near a foundry (getto, or ghetto) and which in 1516 was enclosed by walls and gates and declared to be the only part of the city to be open to Jewish settlement.”
    http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/judaica/ejud_0002_0007_0_07269.html

    A shtetl was defined as
    The word “shtetl” is Yiddish, and it means “little town.” Shtetls were small market towns in Russia and Poland that shared a unique socio-cultural community pattern during the 19th and early 20th centuries.

    Shtetls ranged in size from several hundred to several thousand residents. Forests and fields often surrounded these small towns. Gentiles tended to live outside of the town, while Jews lived in the town proper. The streets were, for the most part, unpaved, the houses constructed of wood. Public spaces included synagogues (often wooden), the beit midrash (study house), shtiblekh (smaller, residential houses of prayer), a Jewish cemetery, Christian churches (Russian Orthodox or Roman Catholic, depending on the location), bathhouses, and, of course, the marketplace.

    The Jewish community was typically governed by a community council, a kahal. The kahal oversaw civil and religious affairs, from collecting taxes to dispensing charity. While religion guided daily life, it was not, as is often portrayed, the sole occupation of Jewish males. In reality, the scholarly class was a small, elite segment of society. A majority of shtetl Jews, both men and women, worked to support their families, usually in commercial or artisanal trades, and then, more commonly, as time and industrialization marched on, in factories.

    Modernization, migration, emigration, and revolution contributed to the decline of the shtetl. The Holocaust destroyed any remaining vestiges of shtetl life.

    http://www.myjewishlearning.com/history/Modern_History/1700-1914/traditional-jewish-life/Shtetls.shtml

    In Muslim countries..
    In Muslim countries the Jewish quarter (Arab. ḥāra) in its beginnings never had the character of a ghetto. It was always built on a voluntary basis, and it remained so in later times in the vast Ottoman Empire. Istanbul (Constantinople) was the classic example of a capital in which the Jewish quarters were scattered all over the city.
    http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/judaica/ejud_0002_0007_0_07269.html

    Hint:
    It would be much easier for all of us if you just came out with it and admitted you don’t like Jews. and you blame them for all the ills of the world -including yhe invention of porridge and haggis.
    There would then be no need for you to post on the issue and we could simply refer to
    you as Allan the Anti Semite.

  103. Goodnight Harri.
    Don’t forget.
    You will need candles, digging equipment and emergency rations.
    Oh and a change of clean clothes for when Dover Customs take the mugshots..

  104. Agit – on this thread alone it is shown that:

    a) jews are funding organisations to bring muslims into Sweden – post at May 26th, 2013 at 3:21 PM.

    b) jews control Sweden’s media – post at May 26th, 2013 at 6:19 PM

    In the interests of debate, I ask you to tell me where I am factually incorrect.

    It is also self-evident that using jewish websites to get impartial information on matters relating to jewry is not really a viable idea, although I’m sure that you have no idea why. Ghettos were compulsory for jews because that is what the rabbis wanted – THEY established the ghetto as a means of controlling their people and preventing assimilation with the host population.

  105. Agit8ed, on May 26th, 2013 at 5:08 PM Said:

    Allan,
    I opened the link I found Natan as one of the contributors (to Sweden’s destruction – note from A@A).

    http://www.natan.org/cgi-bin/about/our_story.pl

    Natan has allocated over $8.7 million to 145 innovative Jewish and Israeli social entrepreneurs and startup nonprofits around the world. Natan is also a thought leader in the Jewish philanthropic world, serving as an authority on issues such as the need to fund Jewish innovation and social entrepreneurs, the emerging Jewish nonprofit “innovation ecosystem,” and the absolute necessity of creating new philanthropic vehicles that can reach and engage potential Jewish philanthropists.

    Now this ‘charity’ is for jews only: jewish money for jewish people. I would aspire to set up something similar for white Europeans only. Would I be permitted to do so?

  106. Stockholm was always a very safe and trouble-free city. Although you don’t have to have the soul of a poet or anarchist to feel a bit uneasy at how obedient the people seemed to be, they nevertheless enjoyed a level of prosperity, safety and freedom second to nowhere else in the world.

    They just weren’t the kind to throw stones at firemen or set kindergardens on fire, and there’s no excuse for that Kind of behaviour no matter who does it.

  107. I have known Scandinavians my entire life. This part of Brooklyn is a historically Norwegian area, but we had a few Swedes too.

    These are -very- law abiding people.

    The Stockholm riots are very largely done by ” immigrants ” . Who the Swedes gave shelter to, in many cases, when persecution was claimed.

    This is how they are repaid. Their capital city burns, their police are attacked, they are called racists.

  108. Ann Czernik writes:

    York mosque is a small community and they were bowled over by the support from the wider community who wanted to send a message that they would defend the Mosque.

    There were trade unionists, vicars, politicians, teachers, people from all walks of life and it was only organised at a drop of a hat with less than 24 hours notice. They ran out of tea and juice. People overwhelmingly spoke of the same message – rejecting all extremism and want to live in peace aside each others faiths and cultures in a atmosphere of tolerance

  109. Allan — My position is that engaging with you directly is unseemly. Makes it seem as though your positions are legitimate or debatable, when they are neither. I’ll bitch-slap you now and then for fun, that’s about it.

  110. Out with the genocidal racism, intellectually, a person who believe Boston and Woolwich were hoaxes performed by actors isn’t fit to lick my boots.

  111. Allan,

    Hasn’t it been a beautiful day?
    I have been outside digging, weeding, planting and generally annoying my neighbours.
    (They told me to clear orf and stay in my own garden..)

    Mrs Agit8ed has decided to cook for me again, and there’s plenty of Bishop’s Finger in the garage.
    Life is pretty good here in Norfolk.

    Now then, back to the Natan charity and your anger about their blatant discrimination..

    “Now this ‘charity’ is for jews only: jewish money for jewish people. I would aspire to set up something similar for white Europeans only. Would I be permitted to do so?”

    Hmmm, let’s explore that one shall we? Discrimination and Jewish people. Jewish people und Diskrriminazion, mein Herr…Der Final Solutzion or in Gerrman,
    “Die Endlösung.”

    In Venezia, that lovely old sinking city, the Juden were forced to live outside in a ghetto.
    We have beaten that one to death elsewhere on ATW with Paul McMahon….nein mein lieber??

    So with similar scenarios all over Europe with a few honourable exceptions, perhaps the question you SHOULD be asking is,
    “Why can’t white Europeans set something up for white Europeans only?”

    🙂

  112. In Venezia, that lovely old sinking city, the Juden were forced to live outside in a ghetto

    . . . . five hundred years ago.

  113. Agit – can you show me where I’m factually incorrect and possibly, just possibly, engage in some debate on the points raised? I like debate and discussion which is why I visit this site so please indulge me. As for the jewish charity Natan, where do I show “anger”? I just want to have the same leeway towards my people as they have to theirs/yours.

  114. Allan,
    Anger -outrage -indignation, whatever you want to call it.
    I did debate the point with you Allan, but you don’t like the answer because you don’t actually like Jewish people, and possibly you wish that someone had succeeded in wiping them out.
    But then 75% of the reason for your existence on the blogosphere would be wiped out, so vot can you do mowtek sheli?

    Just like many other racial and cultural groupings the Jews want to help their own.
    This is wrong why?
    I have already pointed out that British Jews have/are serving our country in all sorts of ways, and have shown their loyalty by fighting in our armed services.
    So really Allan, what is your beef about Jewish people helping Jewish people?

    When I go to meet my Maker I shall be leaving money to the Magen David Adom as well as Help for Heroes and its Israeli equivalent. Money too for the Lifeboats and the Brutish* British Legion.
    In fact there are an awful lot of groups anxiously counting on our early demise…

    Brutish*
    that was for Paul McMahon. 🙂

  115. Why do you not ” agree ” with an apolitical charity that helps the wounded, often the very seriously wounded? Who helps those without one or more limbs, etc> Every example I have seen – or met, and I have met a few – are out of the fight.

    This sounds like a charity very similar to the US based Wounded Warrior Project.

    If there are more worthy causes, please identify them for me.

  116. Firstly because as these people were wounded ‘in the service of the Crown’ it should be The Crown that funds their welfare but, more importantly for me, it also has the potential to ‘help’ those that murdered at Bloody Sunday, Ballymurphy, Majella O’Hare etc and brutalised my generation on a daily basis.

    Can you understand that?

  117. I do understand that. Nothing more need be said.

    I also think that these are great causes.

    The US troops were not without blame in Vietnam, etc.

    The US organization provides a lot of things that the government doesn’t do, and that they sometimes wouldn’t know how to do. There is an element of deep comradeship, a complete lack of self pity, and innovative programs such as teaching amputees how to ski in one day in order to build confidence.

    In the US, such organizations are supported by many from any and all spectrum of political thought. You’d be surprised.

  118. “Firstly because as these people were wounded ‘in the service of the Crown’ it should be The Crown that funds their welfare ”

    Paul, I agree with you there, but then I think that about cancer research and other worthy causes too. However, the point is that these young men and sometimes women have given their lives or wholeness and we as the people should show our respect for their sacrifices.

  119. ” and brutalised my generation on a daily basis.”

    And whilst I understand the emotion behind that I would only agree with your statement if you included punishment beatings, kneecappings, shooting people in the back and indiscriminate bombings by all sides and roundly condemned them too.

  120. The Crown can’t help them because taxes are always evil 🙂

    The innovative / zero bureaucracy programs of these private programs are blazing a trail that other governmental/larger organizations may follow.

    The peer – to – peer mentorship / psychological support and focus on very fast breakthroughs by means of sports etc is something to be admired.

    I would imagine that Wounded Warrior works hand in glove with Help for Heroes. I know that they have very tight friendships / cooperation with the NY Fire and Police Department benevolent organizations, whose doors are always open to Wounded Warrior and their members.

  121. Punishment beatings, kneecappings, shooting people in the back and indiscriminate bombings are absolutely condemned by me and should be taken as a given as I have always condemned such actions before.

  122. Good Paul.
    So we agree that there are no perfect people. There are innocents, there are complicits and there are downright nasty people everywhere who do nasty things in the name of a cause?

  123. So really Allan, what is your beef about Jewish people helping Jewish people?

    Agit – I have no problem with jewish people helping jewish people only, but when white people attempt to help white people ONLY it is criticised by zio-media as ‘racist’. Here are white Greeks helping white Greeks ONLY: listen to how it is reported.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=HUcB4BQ5oLI

  124. So we agree that there are no perfect people. There are innocents, there are complicits and there are downright nasty people everywhere who do nasty things in the name of a cause?

    Of course, haven’t you heard the old adage of patriotism being the last refuge of a scoundral?

    In the light of you above quote are you now prepared to conceive that ‘ armed service personnel would have shot civilians in cold blood’?

    However, the point is that these young men and sometimes women have given their lives or wholeness and we as the people should show our respect for their sacrifices

    That of course is based on the premise that we agree for the cause in which they were killed / maimed. If a soldier does the bidding of The Crown and is injured or killed as a result it should be The Crown who compensates not the average 5’8 (who is already paying through HMRC anyway)

    I also find it interesting that you would only agree with my comment on the British Army brutalisng my generation on the basis of me condemning something.

    Shouldn’t brutality be condemned outright without any quid pro quo?

  125. Paul,
    “I also find it interesting that you would only agree with my comment on the British Army brutalisng my generation on the basis of me condemning something.”

    I thought you’d pick up on that one.

    I wanted to see how you would respond. I have never been touched by violence in the same way you have, so I can’t think how it would affect me. I just wanted to get the point across that that no military/paramilitary organisations are without their rogue personnel, their cock ups or their failures. None as far as I know.Because a people are oppressed does not make them “virtuous” or morally superior. It just means that they are oppressed. This is of course true of the Stern Gang, the Israeli Army, the British/French/German/Soviet/Chinese/American armies too. All have their failures, their sins of omission and commission.
    You can’t stop it but you can deal with it severely when it happens.
    That’s all.

  126. No one is suggesting anything else Agi.

    Now, are you prepared to conceive that ‘ armed service personnel would have shot civilians in cold blood’?

  127. I am prepared to concede they could have, and if proven guilty they should be punished.

  128. Thank you. All that I ask is that you try to view such things objectively.

  129. Perhaps on this thread, not so much on others.

    ‘I don’t think that armed service personnel would have shot civilians in cold blood’

    Isn’t a very objective comment to make.

  130. Paul
    That’s because it’s hard for me to believe that a British regiment would have opened fire on innocent civilians, but I am prepared to accept that they could have done it.
    In other words they wouldn’t have deliberately killed innocent people, but perhaps there are provable circumstances in which they could have.

  131. However I don’t think continuing this conversation will acheive anything.

    I agree, quoting the Grauniad is never a good start 😉

    Tax evading self-righteous politicaly correct lefty halfwits

  132. Paul,
    never seen that before, and I am shocked. He should have either been hung or gone to prison for life. There is no excuse.

Comments are closed.