43 1 min 13 yrs

Do you agree that Britain is “a climate criminal”?

“A global protest against UK plans to build new coal power plants is being launched today by campaigners from more than 40 developing countries accusing the government of being a “climate criminal”.”

Now, we could dismiss this by simply asserting that we are talking about the witterings of environmental extremists, but there are other ways of considering this. 

For example, the  modern new coal power plants has technology which makes for a much better anc cleaner environment, but the eco-wackos couldn’t care less.

The fact that nations like Germay are already just getting on with this is the best response to the luddites.

Of course nuclear power stations would be even better – but then again the eco-wackos can’t even see that, such are the windmills flailing in their eyes.

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43 thoughts on “CLIMATE CRIMINAL?

  1. David:

    The UK is a climate criminal as are most other developed countries.

    Do you have any idea how much it would cost and how long it would take for Britain to go nuclear in a serious way, especially in the present economic climate?

    British plant designs are inferior and too old; they would have to go with the French company AREVA – the only company in the Western world that could probably built a plant and they will be much in demand over the coming decades.

    Coal plants are also very expensive and i’m not sure if Britain’s coal supply is cheap enough or even large enough to supply a largescale increase in coal plants.

    For the paddys here: Ireland, in fact, has a huge coal resource, yet untapped. In the Kish basin off the Dublin coast, there is a very large coal field, as big as the biggest coal field that was ever in Britain.

    Coal plants are

  2. David,

    "For example, the modern new coal power plants HAS TECHNOLOGY which makes for a much better anc cleaner environment"

    Not yet.

    From your link:

    A range of approaches of CCS have been developed and have proved to be technically feasible. They have yet to be made available on a large-scale commercial basis because of the costs involved.

    But of course the coal plants press on regardless ignoring the other costs involved (CO2 emissions), which we all have to pay. What was the buzzword again? Oh yes, transgenerational debt (which conservatives recently became opposed to).

  3. Frank,

    Sorry, this bill for C02 for emissions that we all have to pay – who sends that out?

    Transgenerational debt and transgenerational stupidity – the mark of the political left.

  4. David,

    "Sorry, this bill for C02 for emissions that we all have to pay – who sends that out?"

    Reality.

  5. Wow, Frank, you are confident in yourself there.

    Reality is just a theory – like climate change and evolution- and just because liberal elitist scientists and other brainiacs are adamant that it exists matters not the slightest.

    Contemporary experimentation and extrapolation of the findings that suggest reality exists are not trustworthy. The Fabians- led by that evil genius Gordon Brown – have been trying to flummox us that ‘reality’, ‘physical limits’ and ‘consequences’ exist for years.

    Those damn Fabians, damn them to hell!

  6. This is a great chance to try out CCS. But I’ll be amazed if the government makes CCS a condition of planning approval. The (German) power company has been lobbying heavily against any such condition, and my prediction is that the government will cave in.

    In which case they should shut the **** up about CO2 reduction targets for the UK.

  7. But not a word about Chinese coal plants, which are of an older design and dirtier. But the UK is an easy target.

  8. ‘But not a word about Chinese coal plants,’

    There’s plenty ‘words’ about the Chinese plants.

  9. But not in the Gospel of Kyoto Guba. One of the things I hope Obama does do here is make conservation economicly feasable. A little of waste not want not, if you will.

  10. ‘But not in the Gospel of Kyoto Guba.’

    It is ridiculous to expect developing countries to move at the same speed as the polluters in this regard. The US, Europe and Japan have to move first; it’s the only fair way.

    real conservation will never be economically feasible; it has to be done. We are living beyond our means. We can complain about making it ‘economically feasible’ till the cows come home, but if we will not act, we will crash – like this sub-prime mess.

  11. Things can always be looked at differently. Instead of selling 30 year bonds to finance new power plants some cities in Ca are doing the same thing to finance solar panel on homes.

    "The setups, called power purchase agreements (PPA), are among several initiatives that aim to overcome solar’s obstacles — high upfront costs and design and maintenance hassles — and deliver systems to millions of customers. Several California cities plan to fund home systems with tax-free bonds. Now, utilities are joining in. Southern California Edison on Thursday said it will install panels on about 100 warehouses, running them as it would a power plant. Duke Energy wants to put solar panels on up to 300,000 customer rooftops in the Carolinas."

    Cool.

  12. I would pay more to have solar cells on my roof.

    I’d be afraid though that units in the next ten years will be much cheaper and far more efficient, and would make the 2009 investment look ridiculous

  13. Coming from a man that bought a Betamax right before VHS came out, I sympathise with the argument. But in these scemes, you don’t own the system, the municipality does. You provide the roof, and pay for the juice at going rates, and when the city gets enough roofs, a new power plant doesn’t need to get built.

  14. I thought Texans hated Californians with their eco-wacko ideas?!

    The problem is not only climate change; more pressing is energy security. global oil production will peak in the next 10 to 15 years and gas, probably, in the next 20.

    Putting solar panels on your roof is all very well, but what will be done about transport?

    It takes a decade to built one nuclear plant and only a pittance of the money necessary to establish alternative energies. It’s probably too late and all of this, frankly, is just pissing in the wind.

    The world has spent the last 20 years salivating over a few arabs and tin-pot dictators, all the while, ignoring the big systemic threats down the road.

  15. "I thought Texans hated Californians with their eco-wacko ideas?!"

    Generally, Guba, that’s true, and the ill will between Texas and the People’s Republic is mutual. But, like with Reagan, every now and then something good comes out of that place!

  16. Maybe my area needs to look at concepts like this.

    We have enough sunshine, especially in the summer, when as my man Saul Bellow said, NY is like Bangkok – utility rates are sky high – it’s really a problem getting any plants built.

    And many small and large buildings have flat roofs, which I think would be the ideal platform for panels.

    If – lets just say – 25% of the two family and apartment houses were fitted with solar panels, that I think would take an immense contribution to energy security and cleaner air.

  17. The most common accusation i see thrown at the Californians is concerning their virility. Apparently, Californians are reproducing at a frightening rate and are spreading westward engulfing every red-state in the region from Montana to Arizona.

    These elitists are then, apparently, infecting the indigenous population with gayness and liberalism. The innocent indigenous peoples have no immunity to these infections and the ailments are spreading like an Australian wildfire through conservative communities. Is this true?

    Also, has this deluge reached Texas? McCain, after all, won by only 10%, not a whole lot. Charles, have you been infected and is that why you are softening your views on California?

  18. Charles in Texas –

    You provide the roof, and pay for the juice at going rates, and when the city gets enough roofs, a new power plant doesn’t need to get built.

    Rather than pay for juice at market rates and (presumably) receive a rent for the roofspace taken, it would be easier to discount the price of energy instead.

    Homeowners do rent their roofs, don’t they?

  19. Well, I think the concept goes like this Pete. I have an electric meter on my house taking up 2×2 feet. I neither pay for the meter nor rent the space. I loan it to the electric company in order that they deliver me power.

    Say this concept grew to 20×20 feet but now this large "meter" produces the energy, but in 10 years I get my power for free. It’s an interesting concept. Whether it’s a net energy saver (100,000 panels that must be driven to to be maintained, petrol anyone?) remains to be seen.

  20. Guba, Texas leads the nation in the production in renewables, via huge wind farms out west. A big problem though is right of way for the lines to bring it into popualted areas.

    As to the make up of the population, be it Dallas or Dublin, things are a-changin!

  21. Whatever the details, this is an excellent initiative.

    But California is the sunshine state, so if they can’t make a go of solar power then no-one can.

  22. ‘A big problem though is right of way for the lines to bring it into populated areas.’

    Would this be from big land owners? Texas is not exactly lacking for space and power lines really are not that disruptive.

    A few stubborn ‘property rights’ landowners who benefit from being citizens of the country should not be allowed to screw their fellow Americans like this.

    Does the US Government not have the right to compulsory purchase of land for the national interest?

  23. Guba, there is that process, but it is leagal and time consuming. However, Pres Eisenhower used it to est. the Interstate Highway System in the 1950’s.

  24. Under eminent domain, states ( and probably the feds ) have always had this power.

    And it may not be just the evil big rich landowners – it can be small landowners including farmers / ranchers who do not want their land and way of life disrupted.

    The government should always have this power, but use it only when necessary.

  25. ‘it can be small landowners including farmers / ranchers who do not want their land and way of life disrupted.’

    I can’t imagine that there are many small farmers in Texas – i may be wrong -but i would imagine that Texas farms would be a minimum of 400 acres. Even large pylons would have no real impact on a farmer with that much land. We have many pylons criss-crossing ours and it is fine.

    It would be ignorant of us to complain about them and inconvenience our neighbors.

  26. Here in Texas, it’s used alot by natural gas companies. And if a gas line goes across your land, it’s practically unsellable.

  27. Any Texan threatened by state agents with the theft of their property is entitled to defend what is theirs with all violence necessary.

  28. Any Texan who commits violence against a state agent will have to take the hot squat one of the Lone Star State’s electric chairs.

  29. ‘Any Texan threatened by state agents with the theft of their property is entitled to defend what is theirs with all violence necessary.’

    Oh please; if you piss all over your fellow citizens like that, you deserve only contempt.

  30. Guba

    More than half or so it would appear of Texas farms would be smaller than 400 acres ( since 48.3% are 99 acres or less )

    The megafarms/ranches would skew the figures a lot, but the small farmer isn’t dead.

    –It would be ignorant of us to complain about them and inconvenience our neighbors–

    Well, aren’t you morally superior!

    Again, though I support the use of eminent domain, it is a sensitive thing, and should only be used when there are no good alternatives.

  31. Look, of course, pylons should not be placed in areas that would damage someones livelihood. The least damaging route should, of course, be taken.

    Pylons do not pose a threat to a farmers; i have first hand knowledge of that.

    ‘Well, aren’t you morally superior!’

    No, i’m just been a decent neighbour. It must be a pretty crappy community if people are complaining about pylons and their ‘property rights’ at the expense of their neighbours. We all have to give a little, because we all get alot.

    .and should only be used when there are no good alternatives.’

    Well there are not good alternatives. Burying the cables can be more dangerous and costly. If the need is great enough (and it is) and if it has been judged that the pylons will not seriously damage his business, then he will just have to lump it.

    I don’t know, maybe he should get a hobby or something or take up cycling. In order words, he needs to bloody well lighten up.

  32. Guba

    You’d be one inflexible tyrant if you had power over the public.

    No alternatives?

    There is always the one really big alternative to build the ugly thing elsewhere. There would rarely be only one good route.

    In NY State years ago, they built the Long Island Expressway, a major auto highway. It basically goes east to west, but, as you travel in that direction, it takes a really sharp turn to the south which makes no sense. Until you learn that, back in the day, Robert Moses, the thug who was behind many big projects here, diverted the road in order to avoid disturbing rich people on the island’s north shore.

    The chosen route for any undesirable thing will tend to be far from the lands of the politicians or their wealthy paymasters. They will not be built on the lands of Gore, Kennedy, Clinton, or on the massive lands owned by Ted Turner. Take that to the bank.

    And the toughest matter will not be the route in a rural area, its the route in and around a metro area.

    Guba, you’re fairly uninformed as to the nature of some of the US disputes. Some here oppose these projects precisely in order to be neighborly, or so they think. They want to keep the county rural or suburban and oppose the line that brings power or gas into the evil Manhattan or Boston or wherever.

    Since you’re so high-minded and dismissive of alternative views, perhaps you’d like to donate your farm lands for a European repository of nuclear waste, a Hibernian Yucca Mountain.

    Nuclear waste properly handled does not bother damage anything either, It is the neighborly thing to do, after all. The Germans and French neighbors will thank you.

  33. ‘I have a feeling you’d be one inflexible tyrant if you ever had a government job with power over the public.’

    I worked in an authority part-time for a few years where compulsory purchase orders were decided. I didn’t have any say over it, but i have seen how it’s decided and dealt with many people, a few angry, who had land acquisitioned. I know well the situation.

    I probably will have a Government job – hopefully big – quiet soon!

    ‘There is always the one big alternative to build the ugly thing elsewhere. There would rarely be only one good route. ‘

    ‘Since you’re so high-minded and dismissive of alternative views’

    Are you suggesting that i’m stoned 😉 When have i been dismissive of alternatives. I would be as accomadating as possible, but it has to go somewhere.

    They have to be built somewhere. I would be entirely flexible as i said, but it has to be done. People whinge about prices, yet they do not recognise their responsibilities.

    ‘Nuclear waste properly handled does not bother damage anything either, It is the neighborly thing to do, after all.’

    To compare a nuclear waste depository and power-lines is ridiculous. Power lines do not make a big dent,; we all live near one.

  34. here is a link from the Guardian to story blaming the west for China’s co2 emmissions….

    If that’s the case I’m all for a embargo on buying anything from china

  35. Ah, consumer exports behind 15% of the pollution increase.

    Which means that domestic use is behind 85% of hte pollution increase.

    China is no passive actor with regard to this or anything else. They pollute because their Communist / guanxi / Capitalist government has over the past 35 years had zero regard for the environment – they’ve had almost an active hostility to most environmental and conservation causes.

    Supposedly, it has changed with laws passed in the context of the Olympics. We’ll see.

    Case dismissed.

  36. it’s all a hoax anyway the planet has cooled consistantly over the past 9 years.

    There is no such thing as global warming this is an organized plot to destroy the american economy and the american middle class.

  37. "it’s all a hoax anyway the planet has cooled consistantly over the past 9 years."

    Priceless.

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