18 1 min 4 yrs

Will probably have to vote again. See how it works in EU-land?

See the thread for further details. In short, President Mattarella of Italy, acting in defence of the EU, has vetoed Prime Minister Conte’s choice of finance minister (Paolo Savona). Savona opposes the Euro. There’s no 5 Star/Lega split, but the president is clearly not going to allow significant anti-EU ministers and policies to come through.

It goes without saying that this is no surprise.

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18 thoughts on “EU REJECTS ITALIAN GOVERNMENT

  1. //EU REJECTS ITALIAN GOVERNMENT//

    // the president is clearly not going to allow significant anti-EU ministers and policies to come through.//

    I think I have to clear up a bit of confusion here. The “president” in question is the President of Italy,
    not the President of the European Council, Donald Tusk,
    nor the President of the European Commission, Jean-Claude Juncker,
    nor even the President of the European Parliament, Antonio Tajani

    Maybe it was the Italian name of the latter man that confused you.

    So, you see, it is an internal Italian matter, due simply to the fact that the recent election didn’t give any coalition a majority of parliamentary seats.

    Mind you, it is a bit confusing to anyone, and probably it wouldn’t be Italian politics if it wasn’t. The President of the EU Parliament, signor Tajani, is a member of Forza Italia, Berlusconi’s party, which is in turn an ally of Lega Nord and now potentially the only party that can solve the political deadlock in Italy in the absence of any parliamentary majority.

    So it there were any EU input, surely it would be to give Il Cavaliere a leg up.

  2. Noel –

    Allow me to clear up your confusion. In the post you will see that I said “In short, President Mattarella of Italy ..”

    What you think you read I have no idea.

  3. Mind you, it is a bit confusing to anyone

    With so many “presidents” swanning about in the platinum gilded halls at the palaces of plenty in Brussels. I agree it is all a tad confusing.

    Level the place to ground height, and salt the earth afterwards, that should stop any confusion.

    😏

  4. Harri, this is about the internal mechanisms of the Itallian National Government not the EU.

    Level the place to ground height, and salt the earth afterwards, that should stop any confusion.

    That’s no way to talk about the Palazzo di Montecitorio

  5. That’s no way to talk about the Palazzo di Montecitorio
    Paul

    It’s probably for the best.

    😀

  6. This seems really dodgy by Sergio Mattarella.

    Interestingly the only history for it has involved the rejection of Ministers of Justice (Italy being a little hyper about corruption in the judicial system following the Tangentopoli scandals in the early 90s).

    Oscar Luigi Scalfaro rejected Cesare Previti as Minister of Justice in 1994 because of the candidate’s alleged corruption (and subsequently proven corruption as said candidate was convicted in 2003 and sentenced to six years in prison). In 2001 Roberto Maroni was rejected as Justice Minister due to his own ongoing trial at the time. Similarly Giorgio Napolitano in 2014 rejected the selection of Nicola Gratteri because he was a magistrate and it is convention that a serving magistrate should not hold the position of Minister of Justice.

    This is the first time that the President has rejected a candidate for a post outside of the Minister of Justice. There is also no precedent, that I can find, of the Italian President rejecting a ministerial candidate due to opposition to the candidate or government’s political positions.

    Now the Italian Parliament has the ability to begin impeachment proceedings (and will likely win as they only need a simple majority and the Lega and the 5 Star Movement have a majority in both the Senate and the Chamber of Deputies). However it would then fall to the Constitutional Court who will rule on whether the President should be impeached or not. Likely, while violating the spirit of the law governing his office, I do not think that Mattarella has broken the detail. It is also worth remembering that he is a former Constitutional Court judge and so is more likely to have an understanding of his former colleagues thinking than Di Maio or Salvini do.

    Truth be told it is heading towards fresh elections, elections that are unlikely to make much difference. The Lega and the 5 Star Movement have a majority in both. That is unlikely to change with fresh elections. And they have as much of a mandate now as they will then so I don’t know how much impact that would have on the President.

  7. Now the Italian Parliament has the ability to begin impeachment proceedings (and will likely win as they only need a simple majority […]

    That was my understanding too Seamus but Di Maio now seems to state that the basis for impeachment proceedings is treason (!!!) which in order to proceed needs an absolute majority in both chambers:

    https://www.thelocal.it/20180528/italian-president-power

  8. Indeed, and for what it is worth, they would have an absolute majority. An absolute majority would require 316 votes in the Chamber and 158 in the Senate. M5S and the Lega have 347 in the first and 167 in the second.

    It would still need to be ratified by a special Constitutional Court, consisting, I believe of the current Constitutional Court (15 judges – though currently 14 as one is vacant), plus sixteen members chosen by lot from among a list of Senate-eligible citizens.

    Of the current 15 members of the Court 5 are from lower courts (and de facto Independents), 5 are from Parliament (1 currently vacant, the other 4 appointed in 2014-15) when the political left had a majority in Parliament, and the other 5 are appointed by the President, 4 by Giorgio Napolitano, of the political left, and one by Sergio Mattarella, also of the left. So likely the balance of the court would back the President, not the M5S and the Lega. It could come down to who the 16 ordinary citizens are. If they are representative of the people they would have a majority in favour of M5S and the Lega but likely not enough to overturn the judges on the Court.

  9. So likely the balance of the court would back the President, not the M5S and the Lega. It could come down to who the 16 ordinary citizens are. If they are representative of the people they would have a majority in favour of M5S and the Lega but likely not enough to overturn the judges on the Court.

    Yes, I was looking at the make up of the Constitutional Court and agree with your analysis.

    The point I was attempting to make was that it seems under Art 90 of the Italian Constitution the only two grounds for impeachment are violation of the Constitution or high treason, both of which require an absolute as opposed to a simple majority :

    Art. 90
    The President of the Republic is not responsible for the actions performed
    in the exercise of presidential duties, except in the case of high treason or
    violation of the Constitution.
    In such cases, the President may be impeached by Parliament in joint
    session, with an absolute majority of its members.

    https://www.senato.it/documenti/repository/istituzione/costituzione_inglese.pdf

    It’ll be interesting to see what the grounds for high treason impeachment are, (the President acting intra vires as per Art 92 of the Constitution), and how this with play out both in Parliamentary chambers and in the judicial scenario you outline above.

  10. Yeah. I read the simple majority thing in one if the news reports. A quick glance at the Italian constitution would suggest that isn’t the case and it would require an absolute majority. For what it is worth there is not a substantial difference between simple and absolute majorities. The only distinction is that in absolute majorities the abstentions are treated as No votes.

  11. You cannot make it up.

    https://news.sky.com/story/ex-imf-official-carlo-cottarelli-asked-to-be-italys-new-prime-minister-11388080

    A former International Monetary Fund official has been asked to be Italy’s new prime minister amid outrage from the country’s populist parties.

    Carlo Cottarelli was summoned by President Sergio Mattarella to his official Rome residence on Monday morning, in the latest attempt to solve Italy’s political crisis.

    The result of parachuting in Monti was the rise of 5 Star and Lega. Italians today are furious. Globalists will regret this, when the next elections see the further rise of the anti-eurozone groups.

  12. Personally I think that Sergio Matterella has made a catastrophic error, doing something that will not only be unpopular but also by doing something that he really just shouldn’t have done in the first place (popular or unpopular). The President is appointed by Parliament. Parliament will normally have a Government majority which means de facto the President is appointed by the Government. This means that in the future a Government can appoint a guy as President, lose the next election, and still continue governing because the President won’t appoint their opponents. It is a really dangerous, unjust precedent he is setting here, regardless of how one would view the politics of Di Maio, Salvini, Conte or Paolo Savona.

  13. Globalists will regret this,

    Hmmmm. I’m not so sure Pete, Italy is turning into Greece MK II

    The Globalists never lose.

  14. Globalists will regret this, when the next elections see the further rise of the anti-eurozone groups.

    Yes Pete, that’s nailed on.

  15. And more trouble for Brussels today, this time from Vienna:

    “Austria’s coalition government has unveiled plans to cut benefit payments for immigrants, including refugees, in a move aimed at deterring new arrivals. The main benefit payment will be capped at €563 ($655; £492) a month, rising to match the amount Austrians receive – €863 – if they pass a German test. Immigrants will also be barred from claiming such benefits for five years…

    However Monday’s announcement brings Austria into conflict with the rest of the European Union, because EU rules on freedom of establishment require all member states’ citizens to be treated equally.”

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-44281683

  16. https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/may/29/george-soros-drastic-action-needed-for-eurozone-to-survive

    A campaign to secure a second Brexit referendum within a year and save the UK from “immense damage” is to be launched in days, the philanthropist and financier George Soros has announced.

    The billionaire founder of the Open Society Foundation said the prospect of the UK’s prolonged divorce from Brussels could help persuade the British public by a “convincing margin” that EU membership was in their interests.

    “Ultimately, it’s up to the British people to decide what they want to do. It would be better however if they came to a decision sooner rather than later.

    This nation-wrecker didn’t realise that there has been a decision – it was to Leave the EU.

  17. The Italians have now agreed on a new government. I give it six months:

    “A coalition government has been agreed in Italy, ending months of uncertainty in the EU’s fourth-biggest economy. Prime Minister-designate Giuseppe Conte presented his list of ministers to President Sergio Mattarella for the second time in a week and the new government will be sworn in on Friday. Ministers are drawn from both the anti-establishment Five Star (M5S) and the right-wing League. Attempts to form a technocratic government had failed.

    Mr Mattarella rejected Mr Conte’s original choice for economy minister but a different candidate was agreed on Thursday.”

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-44322429

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