51 1 min 10 yrs

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2hzRPLVSm4

The problem is worse than advertised, and it is by no means confined to the lazy, crazy or drug addicted.There are many homeless and hungry children and adults in America, especially in places like Florida.

Where a lot of people can’t find work and live very close to the edge.

Some think that these people should not be helped by the state.  I think that this is a very immoral position to take.

Who here would remove these minimal safety nets?

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51 thoughts on “Homeless Children Living in Cars in Florida

  1. Oh, please, Phantom, stop with the sob stories. It’s just sickening the way the Left pulls up sob story after sob story – many later determined to be outright lies, btw – to make a case for more and more government.

    btw, I have no problem whatsoever with charity for the poor, government or otherwise. None. no problem – ok. I am as soft a touch as any and give money to bums on the streeet as well as bonafide, responsible organizations.

    I just hate, hate, hate this Leftist ploy – whereby compassion and emotion is played upon – justifying more and more government control over the lifes of people.

    The Left have 2 successful strategies: first, is name calling. works well. call your opponent a name, throw some mud- see what sticks. second, emotional blackmail. this also is successfully persuasive.

    both are intellectually dishonest. You know what I’d like to see, Phantom? I’d like you to objectively show me how our government creates wealth. Can you do this, Phantom? show me how the government creates one lousy non-government job. And Solyndra doesn’t count because we know it went belly up after making off with alot of taxpayer money. For the children.

  2. Pete , and I believe others here are opposed to any govt assistance of the type given here. He is very clear on that point.

    I challenge Pete to say that he would oppose tax funded government aid to families such as these. To citizens who desperately want to work but for whom no work exists.

    And Troll is so completely confused these days, so much that I have no idea whether he is for it or against it.

    Is it ” left ” to want minimal safety nets for your own people who through no fault of their own find themselves in dire conditions?

    Why wouldn’t conservatives want the government to help these folks? What have they done wrong?

  3. But Phantom, if government would just get out of the way then Steve Jobs could innovate an iHome and everyone could buy one at the Apple Store.

  4. Most people don’t realize that this goes on. Right next to Disney World.

    Patty hints that this story [ might be ] determined to be outright lies

    more propaganda by The Left

  5. Phantom –

    1) “I challenge Pete to say that he would oppose tax funded government aid to families such as these.”

    Allow me be perfectly clear: I oppose tax funded government aid to families such as these. I oppose ‘tax funded government aid’ in all its forms. It’s a terrible thing responsible for much misery.

    2) “To citizens who desperately want to work but for whom no work exists.”

    Allow me to be perfectly clear: where unemployment is a problem, it is always a problem caused by government. I oppose all the ways in which government causes citizens such as these to suffer through unemployment.

    Markets clear, yet why is there unemployment? There is no lack of demand. Human wants and needs are endless, things always need to be made and done, yet there’s an obvious disconnect between employers and labour. This is because labour is priced too high and prices must fall. It is simple affordability.

    Again, it is not a lack of work to be done. It is too expensive to pay for the work to be done. So ask yourself, what are those things that prevent deals from being made?

    Let me list a few barriers:

    – Minimum wage laws which declare labour at the entry level to be verboten;
    – Payroll taxes which rob capital from firms;
    – Laws which make it difficult, expensive and legally perilous to fire are a disincentive to hire;
    – The myriad laws establishing conditions for hiring beyond the market-based condition that matters: can he or she get the job done?;
    – The unemployment subsidy in the form of phony insurance that pays people not to work also robs firms of capital;
    – The high cost of business start-ups in the form of taxes and mandates;
    – The mandated benefits that employers are forced to cough up for every new employee under certain conditions are a disincentive to hire;
    – The social security and income taxes that together devour nearly half of contract income;
    – The closed-shop trade union laws that permit thugs to loot a firm and keep out workers who would love a chance to offer their labour for less.

    These are just a few of the government barriers between employers and labour. Endless other taxes and cost-increasing laws and regulations chase commerce and industry away and suck capital from firms, leaving them less able to hire. Such are the ways government then affords its compassion in providing aid to the unemployed.

    I notice in the film the father is an out of work carpenter in Florida, struggling to find work since the housing collapse.

    Oh where to begin. Florida not only has a minimum wage, it has just raised it. Yes, a splendid move, some are living in vehicles through lack of work so the state kills yet more jobs! A minimum wage does not raise wages, it outlaws work below the threshold.

    Without going round that particular mulberry bush again, the housing collapse is 100% the work of government and the Fed’s gross distortions of the economy. So not only is the government making is damned hard for the father to find work it’s the government in the first place which blew up his industry in an inflationary boom.

    The last thing he needs is government now riding to the rescue. He desperately needs it to leave him and his family alone!

    So we can see all the ways in which government intervenes to kill jobs. If they were eliminated today, permanently, everyone would get a job and the unemployment rate would collapse very quickly. The market would begin to clear immediately.

    I could ask you to refer me to any historical account of large, permanent armies of unemployed in the pre-government welfare age, but there none. This is because there were none. The phenomenon belongs solely to the modern age of deep government intervention in the economy and society.

    So yes, I oppose ‘tax funded government aid’ to citizens such as these, but I also oppose ‘tax funded government intervention’ which causes such misery in the first place. The alternative is for the legions of social managers to admit their errors and admit that there is no structural unemployment in a free market because there is always work to be done. It’s simply a matter of allowing the market to clear.

  6. The false left/right argument rises again. Left versus right is a fake because both sides of the argument are owned and stirred by the same people.

    On the video shown, I’d seen it a few days as linked through Alex Jones’s website. Phantom is now hawking footage aired through that ‘nutcase’, Alex Jones. 🙂

    So the unemployment figures for the US are . . . certainly not 8.6%.

  7. Pete

    You sound very much like Trevelyan fiddling and speaking of markets during the Famine, in somewhat modern times.

    There have been countless instances of economic crashes, unemployment and hunger during situations of no government or government with no safety nets

    Your slavish devotion to ideology is not based in logic or history and it leads you to grossly immoral conclusions

  8. Strictly, Liberal, Left-wing, Socialist propaganda.

    In America you have few “State” mandated RIGHTS.

    One important one is the right to persue happiness.

    Not have it given to you in the form of “vote-garnering” handouts!

  9. Keep talking

    Troll

    You are a meek little mouse here

    Do you support the limited government aid given here?

  10. This will be the thrid or fourth time that I have taken the leading items from Alex Jones’s website and challenged Phantom to point out where he (Jones) is lying, and this will probably be the third or fourth time that he has refused to substantiate his bluster – as usual.

    http://www.infowars.com/

    1. The failure to investigate 9/11 has bankrupted America (linked to Washington’s blog)
    – Preface: This post does not discuss whether or not 9/11 was a “false flag” operation or an “inside job”. Anything other than a discussion of the negligence of the Bush administration is unnecessary for the purposes of this essay, and is thus beyond the scope of this post.

    In case you didn’t get the memo, we are currently in a depression. And see this

    And given that American citizens can be indefinitely detained or assassinated at the whim of the president, it is pretty clear that we now live in a police state.

    This post will demonstrate – without getting into discussions of an “inside job” one way or the other – that the failure to hold a real 9/11 investigation is a core cause of our loss of our prosperity and freedom. –

    2. Terrorist Congress Declares War on American People

    – The passage of S. 1867, the National Defense Authorization Act, declares war on Americans, boldly claiming the right to indefinitely detain anyone deemed an enemy of the state, including citizens. Darrin McBreen gets reactions from people on the street about what they think of the passing of the draconian NDAA Bill by the Senate –

    3. The Military Occupation of America By The Bankster-Owned Traitors
    Saman Mohammadi
    The Excavator
    December 3, 2011

    “If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.” – James Madison.

    “Over-grown military establishments are under any form of government inauspicious to liberty, and are to be regarded as particularly hostile to republican liberty.” – George Washington.

    “In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.” – Dwight D. Eisenhower.

    Don’t say America wasn’t warned. –

    There you are, Phantom. I’m sure that these can be contested as matters of opinion, but show me the lies.

  11. That’s all fair comment on infowars.

    You have to wonder(!) where the MSM is in all of this. It churns out constant flannel while some in Congress attempt, de facto, to overturn the constitution and bring about laws wich Americans have only previously seen in Third World dumps.

    Then again, maybe the MSM knows its readership. We see in here *shrug* from supposed conservatives and small governmet types. Truly, these people do not deserve to inherit the great country their forefathers built. They shame their nation and heritage and spit on their birthright.

    What a sad, dishonourable rabble American “conservatives” have become.

  12. The worst liberal or conservative is better than the best libertarian who ever lived

    This is an anti human religion divorced from reality and all knowledge of history

  13. Phantom,
    I actually agree with Patty on this.

    “I just hate, hate, hate this Leftist ploy – whereby compassion and emotion is played upon – justifying more and more government control over the lifes of people.”

    and this:
    “The Left have 2 successful strategies: first, is name calling. works well. call your opponent a name, throw some mud- see what sticks. second, emotional blackmail. this also is successfully persuasive.”

    I have been out of work a number of times, mainly due to severe asthma; and the longest stretch was two years. TWO YEARS after our guesthouse business went belly up in the early ’90s. We survived on soups, stews and going without until we both found employment again.
    Let me make my position clear. The chief responsibility of government is NOT to look after the unemployed: it is to DO THEIR BEST TO CREATE THE IDEAL ENVIRONMENT IN WHICH THE ENTREPRENEURIAL SPIRIT CAN FLOURISH, AND BUSINESSES CAN THRIVE.
    If you make looking after the unemployed your priority, you will encourage the growth of the workshy and an army of carers, counsellors and bureaucrats to see to their needs. You will place a greater tax burden on the low paid employed and extend and encourage the growth of government power and influence.
    Governments usually don’t do wealth creation, they do SPENDING tax monies taken from the industrious and the wealth creators.
    Far better that voluntary organisations be helped to meet the needs of the unemployed, and the emphasis be on short term unemployment rather than long term idleness and loss of hope.

  14. Agit8ed

    I’ve never encouraged any help for workshy adults

    Do the people in this video look workshy to you?

  15. Hiya Phantom!
    Are you enjoying your weekend?
    (The invitation still stands to enjoy our Norfolk hospitality in the New Year..)

    Right, down to business!
    Lovely looking kids, ain’t they?
    Not their fault.
    Nor their Dad’s or their Mum.
    I so hope that things will change for them, and would happily contribute to a fund to help this family.

    (Here in Great Britain Phantom, as a child I ate bread and dripping sprinkled with salt. Or bread and jam for tea time, or even dog biscuits when we were really hungry.
    In the winter time we had ice on the inside of our bedroom windows, our bedding was damp because we couldn’t dry it properly.
    But that is not as bad as living in a car – although some of our Brit soldiers returning from fighting alongside you guys in Iraq have been reduced to doing the same thing when they came home to a governmental “hero’s welcome” 😉

    So, YOU now please answer my reasonably stated arguments against extending government power…

  16. I am entirely in favor of reducing the effective footprint of government and making it more efficient.

    And I note that the most successful economies in the last 25 years all take care of their unemployed, and have other safety nets, possibly excluding China, but no one wants to go there.

    There have never been any modern industrial societies that have been remotely based on Pete Moore / Ron Paul economic principles. This is logic that cannot survive for a minute outside their sacred texts.

    Mixed societies, driven by capitalist principles ( some of which he also opposes ) are the only way to sustained prosperity.

    Lunatic libertarianism actually aids Obamaism, as it is so transparently false – I could drive a hundred holes in its logic elsewhere – that thinking people reject it on sight.

  17. Phanto!
    You have to go further and accept that politicians make up governments.
    Politicians have egos like you have Irish cojones. They need a vehicle to display their brilliance and superiority. That vehicle is known as a Liberal Government..
    Another pearl of wisdom from your British Nemesis..
    In the voluntary sector, organisations die when their mission has been fulfilled.
    In government, they use tax dollars to find reasons to keep the organisation “relevant….” 😉

  18. Is the aid that was given here in any way excessive? Is there anything wrong with such taxpayer given assistance in such cases?

  19. That is what is known as a rhetorical question.
    I am a very practical person. I always look at the whole issue – not just particulars.
    Particulars can confuse any debate. I would rather see governments working with the voluntary sector than setting up their own organisations to solve a problem.
    Phantom, you are using an example to prove a principle..

  20. Pete Moore posted:

    I could ask you to refer me to any historical account of large, permanent armies of unemployed in the pre-government welfare age, but there none. This is because there were none.

    Really? Tudor history is full of references to “landless labourers” and the indigent poor.

    The original Poor Law was enacted in 1597.

  21. Agit8ed

    This is a specific and concrete example, and there are many more like it across all our countries

    Lots of people, esp on the Republican side here, try to pretend that these people don’t exist or that they are responsible for their own plight.

    A big time Republican talk radio screamer, Mark Levin recently did a rant that they actually used in commercials. He yelled to the unemployed ” Get off your ass! Come up with a new idea for a new product “!!

    Is that good advice to these families?

    They may not have world shaking product ideas, but they sure seem willing to work to me.

  22. Well said Phantom.

    It so suits Rightworld to blame the unemployed for their plight. Of course there are skivers, but they have always been a minority.

  23. Phantom,
    You are picking and choosing to support your case!
    Did I say they didn’t want to work?
    Did I denigrate them in any way?
    What I argued was that it shouldn’t be government’s role to oversee the welfare of the unemployed.
    I said, that government’s role should be to encourage wealth creation, NOT spending tax dollars.
    (It’s all there in my first comment supporting Patty..)

  24. Well I say that it is a major core role of government to assist those legitimately in need. We disagree on this.

  25. Left wing propaganda has got to stop. from crack babies — exposed as a lie, btw — to dying polar bears on icebergs — also a lie, complete with photo shop — American Indians dying of smallpox from blankets given to them by settlers – the list goes on and on and on — we are inundated with anecdotes to “prove” that more government is always good government.

    it’s a bunch of BS. and its intellectually dishonest.

    The Left can’t win an objective argument – so, name calling and emotional black mail is all they’ve got.

  26. Peter – the system is made worse when those who are long-term unemployed are simply removed from the register and re-classified as ‘no longer looking for work’. Does this mean that the millions in the US who are in this terrible situation would refuse a job offer because they ‘are no longer looking for work’? Absolutely not, but the lowering of the unemployment rate (by a factor greater than 2!!) allows governments to get away with the policies which they impose. This is not a false left/right matter.

  27. Pete

    You have enacted comment moderation on the Ron Paul idolatry thread

    Does this mean you’ve given up debate there?

  28. That’s a little weird. Pete’s not one to shirk from a debate. Maybe Pete has become a Ron Paul Zombie — and there is no more Pete as we knew him?

    just kidding…I spent some of Thanksgiving with someone who actually worries about zombies. I found this so funny – but I don’t think he was kidding. He’s not worried about werewolves – just zombies. it takes all kinds, I guess.

  29. Phantom,
    In the not so distant past, voluntary groups – NOT governments; looked after the poor and needy.The churches influenced morality and caring.
    You are deliberately ignoring the fact that by giving MORE power to a government, you TAKE AWAY independence and money from the citizenry. Without bloated governments the people would not so often go to war with other nations.

    Government is there to ensure freedom and fairness in elections, to ensure law and order is maintained in civil society, to collect taxes for the maintenance of roads communications, business and industry, and to keep the country safe from her enemies.
    That’s ALL.

  30. Allan

    I agree with your comment at 7.55. All governments shamelessly fiddle the unemployment figures. The true rate is close to twice the official rate in both the USA and the UK.

  31. Peter – I await comments from the Patty-Phantom axis in dispute of what you and I are saying. In short, the true unemployment rate in the US (and UK) is at least twice the official figure.

  32. Agit8ed

    A lot of people slipped through the cracks in those bad old days that some think were the good old days

    And a HUGE amount of aid is currently given by private, mostly Christian organizations now

    Allan

    The methodology has been in place for a long time. It’s not fiddling with anything. I’d be OK with recalibrating it to include all who are truly unemployed and who are looking for work. Its a good idea.

  33. Phantom,
    My personal view has nothing to do with “good old days” and everything to do with the belief that big government attracts big, ruthless egos, manipulated by cosy country clubs with big vested interests and little in the way of morality or humanity.
    Governments exist for themselves, not the people.
    Wanna argue?
    Look at the Eurozone.

  34. Phantom – if the real figure were reported, would those who run and wreck the US economy to their own enrichment be allowed to get away with it? Those figures are fiddled for very good (very bad, in fact) reasons otherwise they wouldn’t be fiddled at all.

  35. Allan

    The fact that the real number is higher is not exactly a secret. Everyone knows this.

    There are very real problems, and our respective governments, including the Republicans here and the so called Conservatives there are as culpable as anyone in this.

    Only a hack would say otherwise.

  36. Phantom,
    “And a HUGE amount of aid is currently given by private, mostly Christian organizations now”
    But governments tend to take on all the roles and ministrations and then CONTROL them.

  37. Phantom,
    “And a HUGE amount of aid is currently given by private, mostly Christian organizations now”
    But governments tend to take on all the roles and ministrations and then CONTROL them.

    “There are very real problems, and our respective governments, including the Republicans here and the so called Conservatives there are as culpable as anyone in this.”
    Yes, Phantom.
    Because they all want to control through the agencies of government. Of course they are all culpable.

  38. The entire Conservative leadership in the UK ought to be arrested for fraud for calling themselves a conservative party . It’s false advertising.

    The Republicans here are a dimwitted rabble most of which get their opinions from talk show screamers. Exhibit A and B here are Patty, who plods along bleating out what El Rushbo told her that noon, and Troll, whose tongue is for once tied when I ask him a hard question here. He opposes things ( national health system ) that would help him and supports things ( very low tax on the rich ) that would hurt him a great deal.

    There is a crying need for leadership of some kind in this country. But now, not only have the Republicans not led, they have exhibited a negative leadership. They’ve largely ruined the debate on health issues, and on taxes. Apart from Romney and Huntsman, they’re all garbage on that stage.

    Part of leadership is a societal concern for the working poor and the unemployed. I don’t for a minute buy the line that private concerns can begin to deal with this issue. I would be very harsh on those who choose not to work- but I want my tax money to assist the citizens of my country who can’t find work or who are crushed financially by things beyond their country. Any country that does not provide things like this is not worthy of anyone’s respect.

    At the core of modern dimwit Republican / libertarian thought is a complete lack of regard for the poor, working or otherwise. Which is why I am glad that I quit the Republican Party over a year ago. I invite all thinking people here to step out of any and all ideological prisons. If you are a card carrying member of any movement these days, you are the problem.

  39. Well, I’m glad that’s over with. Phantom you made more moves than a master of the Rhumba!

  40. Do try to keep up

    I’ve been consistent for all my time here.

    And again, I have the highest respect for the hands on Catholic and Protestant and other aid agencies that I know of here. They seek no credit, and they are a huge part of the glue that keeps society going.

  41. In defence of Phantom, he always argues on the merit of a case or policy, he does not automatically trumpet a party or ideological line like Patty, Troll and Pete Moore.

  42. Phantom,
    “I’ve been consistent for all my time here.”
    No you haven’t!
    You’ve made more leaps than a ballet dancer!
    All that’s happened is that you have gone from using a photograph of some appealing children forced to live in one of your appalling American vee-hicles, and used that top justify your government taking control of a service which could be more easily and effectively done by voluntary agencies…
    It’s the same method as that used to tug at our heartstrings to support overseas aid…
    You know I’m right; you just can’t bring yourself to admit it. 🙂

  43. I disagree with the premise that a government bureaucrat is a benevolent force, has my best interest at heart and delivers on promises in a non-corrupt, efficient manner.

    government has waged a supposed “war on poverty” for over 50 years here in the US. no clear victory in sight. why? because government is part of the problem.

  44. Patty

    Correct.

    But you reckon that Wall Street and Goldmans are no part of the problem whatsoever. Right?

  45. Have just watched the commie link. Those kids are obviously commies, brainwashed by their commie parents.

    You wouldn’t get this on Fox.

  46. Phantom –

    “Pete

    You have enacted comment moderation on the Ron Paul idolatry thread”

    I haven’t touched any settings and wouldn’t even know how to do that.

  47. Patty –

    That’s a little weird. Pete’s not one to shirk from a debate.

    Very kind, and I have no idea about the moderation settings.

    Maybe Pete has become a Ron Paul Zombie — and there is no more Pete as we knew him?

    I’m still here, but vote Ron Paul.

    just kidding…I spent some of Thanksgiving with someone who actually worries about zombies. I found this so funny – but I don’t think he was kidding. He’s not worried about werewolves – just zombies. it takes all kinds, I guess.

    Waddya mean, it takes all kinds? The zombie apocalyse is coming, Patty. Only gold, tinned food and guns can save you.

    I don’t often say this, but don’t take my word for it, take the government’s word.

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