174 1 min 9 yrs

It’s snowing in Jerusalem while Israel’s Prime Minister Netanyahu sends warm Christmas greetings to Christian friends around the world.

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174 thoughts on “Merry Christmas from Jerusalem

  1. Surely you mean “The Holy Land”?

    I josh of course.

    For those who support the right of a recognised sovereign State to live in peace and guard its security whilst seeking peace with her enemies, I give you
    ISRAEL! Land of the free(d) and Home of the Maligned!

    I found this website (very) early this morning. It is for English speaking Jews who have made “aliyah” immigrated -from the verb “to go up, or ascend”. There are lots of articles by ordinary and professional Jewish people from the States, Canada, England and Europe. The breadth of articles covered about life, science and culture in Israel should surely warm the cockles of even the coldest Goy heart…
    http://www.esra-magazine.com/

    G’wan, give it a look.

  2. That’s a warm and sincere greeting from Netanyahu marking the birth of the Prince of Peace.

    Mind you, the Jews haven’t yet apologised for killing him.

    Chill people, it’s a joke.

  3. “.. our common history … our common heritage ….we have common values ..”

    Funny how with all these things in common the Israelis still drove the Christians from their homes and ancestral heritage just because of their religion.

    Although, I suppose the persecutor and the persecuted do have a “common history” in one way.

  4. Funny how with all these things in common the Israelis still drove the Christians from their homes and ancestral heritage just because of their religion.

    Exactly my thought.

  5. Exactly my thought.

    Petr – you having a thought is like me having a heart attack. I wish you a speedy recovery, and I’m sure that Harri wishes you likewise.

  6. How do all these Israelis drive anything, they are such humble ‘God fearing’ people 😉

    They surely would not harm a fly, they are religious people 😉

  7. Petr – you having a thought is like me having a heart attack. I wish you a speedy recovery

    I don’t, it’s not like he is going to contribute anything to society 😉

  8. Petr Tarasov, on December 25th, 2013 at 9:33 PM Said:

    Merry Christmas, Allan.

    Bollocks, you don’t mean that 😉

    You have just spent the last year slagging him off?

  9. Harri – please accept my apologies for being so presumptuous as to believe that Petr would merit your best wishes.

  10. Allan@Aberdeen, on December 25th, 2013 at 9:45 PM Said:

    Harri – please accept my apologies for being so presumptuous as to believe that Petr would merit your best wishes.

    I can’t understand it to be honest, my wifes grandparents were both avowed communists as well, proper ones mind, none of your plastic modern day ‘Playing at it’ Petr type of self righteous Wolfie communist 😉

    Real ones.

  11. Allan

    I am actually helping the Scottish economy today, my wife bought me a bottle of Jura 16 year old whiskey 😉

    It’s nearly at the bottom, ;-(

  12. Allan

    One thing I can say with absolute certainty, after all the time I have spent on ATW, I truly believe you are the most patient person I have ever come across.

    I know it, and so do they, no matter what the drones throw at you, you still run rings around them.

    Happy Christmas mate.

    The more the drones attempt to try and shut you up, the more desperate they become.

  13. Well whaddya know?
    Allan’s found himself a web mate, a supporter, maybe even an admirer.

    And the irony is,
    he’s part Jewish.,
    Step forward the ne-ew Lone Ranger and his faithful pal Toto!

  14. Agit – some of those who woke me from my slumber are jewish, or of jewish root. Here’s one, and pay attention because this guy wasn’t joking – he was prophetic:

    And there is:

    “Most Americans have no real understanding of the operation of the international moneylenders… The accounts of the Federal Reserve System have never been audited. It operates outside the control of Congress and… manipulates the credit of the United States.” – Barry Goldwater

    One thing I can say with absolute certainty, after all the time I have spent on ATW, I truly believe you are the most patient person I have ever come across.

    Harri – in my work I have to take time to explain things to people in order to get things done. Of course, I’m dealing with my peer group who are much more intelligent than the ‘opposition’ here but I keep explaining my views with supporting evidence. You see, in discussions in my field of work, ‘yes’ or ‘no’ is insufficient: the reasons for ‘yes’ or ‘no’ have to be made clear otherwise there is no recordable basis for the action taken. I’m sure that you get it.

  15. Having watched some great British comedy over the past few days, I conclude that Petr is an avatar based on Wolfie of Citizen Smith and Private Pike of Dad’s Army, Agit being Private Godfrey. No offence intended.

  16. Allen

    I sure do get it.I was awoken from my state induced coma just after 9/11, strangely enough, the gentleman who put me on this path was also an Engineer, a weapons Engineer for the Royal Navy (now retired) he then tried to explain to me when the 9/11 murders took place that something here is very very wrong.

    And 7/7 only confirmed it.

    He was right.

    Now, it’s my time today, so orf to the fields to try and find my fortune.

    Ta da

  17. Having watched some great British comedy over the past few days, I conclude that Petr is an avatar based on Wolfie of Citizen Smith and Private Pike of Dad’s Army, Agit being Private Godfrey. No offence intended.

    And by me absolutely none taken!
    I think this must be the second or perhaps third time you have begrudgingly aired a sense of humour this year.
    Things are looking up, Allan.

    As regards comparing me to Private Godfrey, I think you pretty much nailed it.
    The same kind of slipped chest, a benign but growing prostate which demands my attention -frequently. A certain gentle vagueness, a sense of honour and respect for the individual.

    You know too of course unlike me he was something of a war hero? He fought bravely in both world wars.
    Probably for the wrong side from your point of view, but we won’t get into that…. 🙂

  18. Now, it’s my time today, so orf to the fields to try and find my fortune.

    Harri,
    Did you consult with your hero before going off on your own? I thought the Lone Ranger and Toto always did things together?
    And I have always wondered; does he keep his mask on in bed??

  19. Morning A8…hope you had a lovely Christmas. Wasn’t Toto Dorothy’s little dog in the Wizard of Oz? And a really bad band in the 80s? 🙂

  20. Hope you all had a nice Christmas.

    //You know too of course unlike me he was something of a war hero? He fought bravely in both world wars.
    Probably for the wrong side from your point of view,//

    🙂

  21. Hope everyone had a good Christmas. I’m just up after being bed – ridden with flu from the 24th 🙁

    I keep explaining my views with supporting evidence.

    Allan, many (most?) of the time your ‘evidence’ is taken from ridiculous howl at the moon websites.

    I also notice that you’re beginning to (mildly) insult others. Maybe someone else’s influence?

  22. Harri,
    Did you consult with your hero before going off on your own?

    No.

    I thought the Lone Ranger and Toto always did things together?

    Agit, You don’t ‘think’

    And I have always wondered; does he keep his mask on in bed??

    Only every other Saturday night 😉

  23. mairin2
    I hope you had a lovely Christmas too. Apart from worse than usual breathing problems,
    (stop cheering Allan.)
    we had probably our best “in-law Christmas” so far.

    Today has been great too with the wife’s sister and husband coming over here and our elderly neighbour in for tea and games..

    Wasn’t Toto Dorothy’s little dog in the Wizard of Oz?

    Yes he was.
    What was your point?

  24. I’m back on my feet and on my first hot whiskey, (purely medicinal), thanks Agi.

    We English had nothing to do with that!

    I’m sure I’ll find some way how to blame you . . .

  25. I blame the Sherry 😉

    ???

    I thought you said it was a bottle of the finest from the Lone Ranger’s homeland?

    I am actually helping the Scottish economy today, my wife bought me a bottle of Jura 16 year old whiskey 😉

    It’s nearly at the bottom, ;-(

  26. I’m sure I’ll find some way how to blame you . . .

    🙂
    I’d rather that than read of your passing..

    I had so much more incitement and insulting lined up for you..
    So get better quickly.

  27. And so is Tonto, a North American i believe.

    Actually, so is Tin tin and his dog Snowy, and Toto from the Wizard of Oz.

  28. Actually, so is Tin tin and his dog Snowy, and Toto from the Wizard of Oz.

    Actually I might be wrong about Tin tin, he just might be English 😉 I know he had an English butler, and his dog was a wire fox terrier.

    Tonto had a horse called Scout … but no dog.

  29. A female CNN journalist heard about a very old Jewish man who had been going to the Western Wall to pray, twice a day, every day, for a long, long time.

    So she went to check it out. She went to the Western Wall and there he was, walking slowly up to the holy site.

    She watched him pray and after about 45 minutes, when he turned to leave, using a cane and moving very slowly, she approached him for an interview.

    “Pardon me, sir, I’m Rebecca Smith from CNN. What’s your name?

    “Morris Feinberg,” he replied.

    “Sir, how long have you been coming to the Western Wall and praying?”

    “For about 60 years.”

    “60 years! That’s amazing! What do you pray for?”

    “I pray for peace between the Christians, Jews and the Muslims. I pray for all the wars and all the hatred to stop. I pray for all our children to grow up safely as responsible adults, and to love their fellow man.”

    “How do you feel after doing this for 60 years?”

    “Like I’m talking to a fucking wall.”

  30. Like I said about that ‘Thinking’ thing ..

    It’s Tonto 😉

    The Lone Ranger is American

    I thought the Lone Ranger and Toto always did things together?

    Agit, You don’t ‘think’

    No Harri,
    I do think.

    So when I read your comments about Israel and Jews talking to walls coupled with your obvious respect and new found devotion to a man who dislikes the Jews and believes in things like or similar, to the Protocols of Zion; and expresses no real concern for the attempted extermination of the people you are part descended from:
    then when I described Allan and yourself as the Lone Ranger and Toto
    I had the right spelling for the right companion.

  31. then when I described Allan and yourself as the Lone Ranger and Toto

    No, you just missed the ‘N’ out 😉

    No Harri,
    I do think.

    No, you don’t

  32. Agit

    If you are trying to be insulting … you are not very good at it.

    Try harder man, oh go on, it is Christmas, a Holy holiday after all 😉

  33. Agit

    Would you please be as kind to show me one single post where i have agreed with Allan on the holocaust, i do have my views on the holocaust, but i have never aired them on ATW.

    Unless of course you no different?

    As for 9/11, 7/7 and scientific and engineering details, i agree with Allan 100%

    Hows that.

  34. As for Jews, ‘wailing’ at a wall .. yes i find it baffling, and to be honest, it takes stupidity and blind faith to a whole new level.

  35. If you are trying to be insulting

    Not trying, Harri.
    Frankly I am disappointed.
    Of course there are good and bad in all communities, but as a non Jew myself with Jewish relations through a sibling’s marriage, I am shocked to find a man denigrating his own people who have known so much death and persecution just for being Jews and then sucking up to one who so obviously dislikes them.
    So Toto it is.

  36. Not trying, Harri.
    Frankly I am disappointed
    .

    I am sure you are, like I said when it comes to insults, you are not very good at it 😉

  37. Harri, on December 25th, 2013 at 9:32 PM Said:

    How do all these Israelis drive anything, they are such humble ‘God fearing’ people 😉

    They surely would not harm a fly, they are religious people 😉

    Some of them actually talk to a brick wall you know 😉

  38. ‘Sucking up to him .. you mean Allan@, by ‘sucking up’ if you mean Allans expertise on Engineering facts, then yes, you are correct 100%.

  39. Agit8ed, on December 26th, 2013 at 8:39 PM Said:

    Harri, on December 25th, 2013 at 9:32 PM Said:

    How do all these Israelis drive anything, they are such humble ‘God fearing’ people

    Not too sure what that one is about ? I meant have meant killing 😉

    They surely would not harm a fly, they are religious people

    See above answer, it will be the same.

    Some of them actually talk to a brick wall you know

    They do 😉 and I find it very very strange, an alien could do it and I would still say the same thing.

    Agit, what are you saying, that because I have Jewsih ancestors I should just keep stum?

  40. “How do you feel after doing this for 60 years?”
    “Like I’m talking to a fucking wall.”

    I must remember that one 😀

  41. Agit

    You are as touchy about Jews and anything remotely Jewish as Petr is about Communists or ‘ Minority groups’ .. and you appear to be absolutley perfectly okay attempting to deride Petr for standing up for his greater cause, I just don’t get it, and to be perfecty frank, I don’t think you do either.

    How are you getting on with finding any posts by me with reference to ‘Holocaust denial’ ?

    Good luck with that one.

    Agit, Look I am the athiest here and I have a far superior gift than you for turning the other cheek’

    Don’t take life too seriously, no one gets out alive anyway .. I can’t remember where that comes from.

  42. Aileen

    I am glad you find it funny, it’s a pity others did not a sense of humour as well, it makes the World go round 🙂

    Then again, living your life according to a book which is over 2000 years ago, I suppose having a sense of humour is not a top priority.

    And just so there is no misunderstanding now or in the future, ‘Wailing at a brick wall’ I find baffling and idiotic.

  43. Agit, what are you saying, that because I have Jewsih ancestors I should just keep stum?

    Not at all, but in my “unthinkingness” I have stated many times on ATW that the number 6million may be disputable (although there are Jewish organisations which have used the Nazi’s own figures to arrive at 6 million), but the intention of extermination, the Final Solution was the intention. Of men, women and children, families ripped apart simply for being Jewish.
    It’s not the final figure that matters so much as the intent by a supposedly civilised society. I thought that might have been uppermost in your mind. It’s called loyalty.

    I don’t care what self hating sources Allan uses for his arguments. There are Jews who hate themselves for being Jewish.
    The point is that I have lived and worked in Israel. I have given loads of websites where you can read/communicate with Jews and Israelis. You/he can visit the land, meet the people. Meet old Jewish folk still bearing their concentration camp numbers on their arms.
    That is reality Harri. What Allan presents is a form of fanaticism, and he doesn’t want to meet the people or discuss the issues with them.

    My brother in law is Jewish from Russian/Polish heritage. He doesn’t believe in orthodox Judaism or God as an entity. But he doesn’t make fun of them or join with those who blame them for all sorts of international conspiracies and racial undermining of the white race.

    When you came on this website I believe I was one of the first to try and make you feel welcome. You found your own feet and your own persona. Great. But in my view you have hitched yourself to the wrong wagon.

  44. Agit

    If you have any interest, my Great Grandmother, you know the Jewsish one, She, along with my Uncle who was also a Jew were and still remain the two most racist human beings I have ever met, and I trust you have no problem with me stating that fact.

  45. If you have any interest, my Great Grandmother, you know the Jewsish one, She, along with my Uncle who was also a Jew were and still remain the two most racist human beings I have ever met, and I trust you have no problem with me stating that fact.

    As I said, there are all sorts in every community. That they were racist is regrettable, but the fact remains that as a people the Jews have suffered for being Jews – different, not for being racist.

  46. Agit

    A fine post if I may say so.

    But you still have not produced one single post, or word come to think of it which backs up your claim that I agree with Allan on the holocaust.

    You don’t do insults very well, and you are even worse at apologies to be honest .

    Or should I just turn the other cheek as the good book advises us to do ?#

    Agit, please allow me to explain fully again my position with Allan, I agree 100% with Allan on Engineering facts and figures and have no choice to disagree with Allan and his ‘Wacky’ websites on Scientific facts and figures and basic ‘Laws of phsyics’ I cant argue, because unfortunatley I do the science for a living.

    So, let me summarize, any Scientific or Engineering fact that Allan@ has ever posted on ATW has been, according to the Law of Physics 100% correct.

    As for the 6 million Jews who got exterminated by the Nazis.

    If there really is a God, and he is the all powerful being in the Universe, why did he not intervene?

  47. Paul wrote:

    Allan, many (most?) of the time your ‘evidence’ is taken from ridiculous howl at the moon websites.

    I agree – and here they are in order of appearance in my most recent confrontation with the resident Shabbat goy:

    WHY I WRITE…

    Allan@Aberdeen, on December 23rd, 2013 at 7:39 PM
    The BBC – jewish broadcaster

    Allan@Aberdeen, on December 24th, 2013 at 4:05 PM
    Jewish Forward – jewish news site

    Allan@Aberdeen, on December 24th, 2013 at 4:06 PM
    Conference of Presidents of Major American Jewish Organizations – linkage for organised jewry in the US

    Allan@Aberdeen, on December 24th, 2013 at 4:22 PM
    JTA – global jewish news source

    Allan@Aberdeen, on December 24th, 2013 at 4:37 PM
    March 22, 2013

    Dear President Obama and Members of Congress:
    We, the undersigned Jewish organizations and leaders, strongly believe that our country would benefit from an overhaul of our nation’s broken immigration system. Our views are shaped by our Jewish religious and ethical traditions, as well as our own history in this country and by core American values. The commandment to ‘welcome the stranger’ is mentioned 36 times throughout the Torah, more than any other commandment.

    We look forward to working together to improve our country’s immigration system in a way that honors our American and Jewish values.

    Sincerely,

    National Organizations

     American Forum of Russian Jewry (AFRJ)
     American Jewish Committee
     Anti‐Defamation League
     Bend the Arc: A Jewish Partnership for Justice
     B’nai B’rith International
     Bukharian Jewish Congress of the USA and Canada
     HIAS (Hebrew Immigrant Aid Society)
     Jewish Council on Public Affairs
    etc…….

    Allan@Aberdeen, on December 25th, 2013 at 1:20 AM
    Times of Israel

    Allan@Aberdeen, on December 25th, 2013 at 9:55 AM
    Atlanta Black Star referencing Ha’aretz, an Israeli newspaper

    Allan@Aberdeen, on December 25th, 2013 at 7:20 PM
    Israel national news

    Allan@Aberdeen, on December 25th, 2013 at 8:14 PM
    Jewish Chronicle

    Yes Paul – the people who run these sites are nutters and megalomaniacs. They actually do believe that they were ‘Chosen’ by God to rule over the rest of humanity. Ask Roger Waters.

  48. Agit

    And yes, you did make me feel welcome, very welcome, and I thank you for that.

    Why, over the years I have even read and put up with most of your sermons 😉

    God bless you.

  49. Allan, at the risk of ‘sucking’ up to you, or wagging my tail until it drops off .. I had to laugh when I read the ‘howling at the moon’ websites 😉

    They just don’t get it .. do they.

  50. But in my view you have hitched yourself to the wrong wagon.

    It’s my wagon though.

    Allan is his own man, and I another, as are you with your religious views, and unlike some, I am sure we will not circle those wagons, we are where we are.

  51. Oh ffs

    Wouldn’t it be so much better if we could all accept that there is no evidence whatsoever for the existence of sky-gods and their never-never land? That way, we just might get to stop the wars of religion which have slaughtered untold millions for millenia, and continue to do so. There is no god and no after-life, get over it.

  52. Harri, on December 26th, 2013 at 9:28 PM Said:

    ‘Why did God not intervene’ ..

    Ah, He works in mysterious ways .. no doubt.

    Six million human souls might want an answer also.

  53. I don’t know if a universal abandonment of religion or universal adoption of the same religion would fix most things.

    Many religious disputes are tribal as well. The Arab Israeli thing is the perfect example – many completely non religious Jewish Israelis are very Zionist, etc.

  54. Harri

    Aileen
    I am glad you find it funny, it’s a pity others did not a sense of humour as well, it makes the World go round 🙂
    Then again, living your life according to a book which is over 2000 years ago, I suppose having a sense of humour is not a top priority.

    It was funny and I would be surprised if it has never been told by a devout jew.

    Some of the wittiest and wickedly funny people I know (have known) ho(e)ld that book in high esteem. Take exception to aspects of it and the messages therein based on merit but deriding it merely on the basis of how old it is makes little sense. If a book contains useful information or truth, it doesn’t much matter how old it is. The Radio Times, Maps and what is currently legal, etc has to keep up with the times but Timeless Truths are, well, timeless.
    My MSc on Near Ring Theory and Linear Sequential Machines will be as valid in 2000 yrs time as it was when I submitted it 😉

  55. Peter, on December 26th, 2013 at 9:26 PM Said:

    Oh ffs

    Wouldn’t it be so much better if we could all accept that there is no evidence whatsoever for the existence of sky-gods and their never-never land? That way, we just might get to stop the wars of religion which have slaughtered untold millions for millenia, and continue to do so. There is no god and no after-life, get over it.

    Just so there is absolutely no confusion now or in the future on this one either, I agree 100% with the above statement.

    There is more ‘evidence’ that Santa exists, than there is of some invisible ‘higher being’ which ignores the horror and wholesale slaughter of six million of his ‘chosen ones’ if that’s how he treats his ‘chosen ones’ there really is not too much hope for the rest of us, no mayter how much you ‘suck up to him’ .. or her.

    Now, if you want to use religion and an invisible man in the sky to make you feel all self-righteous, then that is another thing, just admit it.

  56. Oh ffs
    Wouldn’t it be so much better if we could all accept that there is no evidence whatsoever for the existence of sky-gods and their never-never land? That way, we just might get to stop the wars of religion which have slaughtered untold millions for millenia, and continue to do so. There is no god and no after-life, get over it

    Oh ffs
    Wouldn’t it be so much better if we could all accept that a very small minority of people believe in a “sky-god”. Some (and I repeat some) atheists are worse than Christian fundamentalists in their narrow interpretation of what God is. Although there is some excuse for the latter as they are focusing on what they believe in. How atheists with access to a dictionary come up with “sky-god” bollox – well God knows!

  57. It was funny and I would be surprised if it has never been told by a devout jew.

    Agit obviously does not think so 😉

    My MSc on Near Ring Theory and Linear Sequential Machines will be as valid in 2000 yrs time as it was when I submitted it

    Aileen, and that is my point with ‘Engineering and scientific’ facts, mathematics has the answer/s ( as we know them today) to everything.

    And ‘religion’ and blind faith on some mythical superbeing, just does not add up, the irony of all this is, I bet your bottom dollar that some of these religious people take the piss out other people, (Like David Icke) who bang on about Aliens and ‘Little green people’ .. you have to see the irony of it all 😉

  58. Aileen

    So, God does not live in the sky then?

    You would have been burnt at the stake for even thinking about heresy not so long ago 😉

  59. Agit

    How’s your luck going with finding that post, or posts by me and that ‘Holocaust denial’ ?

    Methinks, Agity is in for anither very very late night 😉

  60. Harri

    Aileen, and that is my point with ‘Engineering and scientific’ facts, mathematics has the answer/s ( as we know them today) to everything.

    No it doesn’t. Paraphrasing Dara O’Brien – Science knows it doesn’t have all the answers. If it had all the answers, it would stop.

    Your point was deriding living your life by the bible because of how old it is.

  61. Harri

    Aileen
    So, God does not live in the sky then?
    You would have been burnt at the stake for even thinking about heresy not so long ago 😉

    I doubt if that was ever a key part of any mainstream orthodoxy but I am open to persuasion.

  62. No it doesn’t. Paraphrasing Dara O’Brien – Science knows it doesn’t have all the answers. If it had all the answers, it would stop.

    Your point was deriding living your life by the bible because of how old it is.

    Science evolves.

    The Old Testament and the new Testament .. are talking bollocks.

    Phantom

    Ah, an insult, I am a ‘truther’ .. fair enough, I accept that accolade with honours M’Lud 😉

    Don’t forget to add ‘Denier’ in that equation.

  63. Wouldn’t it be so much better if we could all accept that a very small minority of people believe in a “sky-god”.

    No problem Aileen. You can believe in the tooth fairy for all I care. But I take serious objection the the millions slaughtered in the name of various sky-gods. As I have posted before, it’s hard to imagine the pilots of 9-11 shouting “Darwin be praised!” as they flew the planes into the twin-towers.

  64. I doubt if that was ever a key part of any mainstream orthodoxy but I am open to persuasion.

    Going by that ‘Old book’ I don’t think ‘being open to persuasion’ would have been any form of defence, you have been torched, and died in the name of ‘religion’ anyway 😉

    Did any men die, by being accused of being Wizards ..according to the old book?

  65. it’s hard to imagine the pilots of 9-11 shouting “Darwin be praised!” as they flew the planes into the twin-towers

    Or, ‘Die Infidels’ in the name of all Atheists 😉

  66. Err, nearly forgot ..’Die Infidels’ in the name of all Atheists ‘Peace be upon him’

    Peace … my arse

    It’s the last thing any religious fruitcake wishes.

  67. Phantom, on December 26th, 2013 at 9:59 PM Said:

    Harri

    We have you busted good and proper for Trutherism, so at least we got that

    God dam that Harri to Hell, Fire & Brimstone, the fruitcake and ‘Howling at the moon, denier and truther, believes in modern day science and the Law of Physics .. burn him at the stake oh fellow cavemen ;-0

    And you think I might be the ‘Nutter’ .. excuse the pun, oh dear God, how did it ever come to this?

  68. My heartfelt aplogies, we are talking Phantom here ..

    I will just correct that statement

    ‘Burn Harri, burn him to Hellfire & Brimstone at that stake’ .. along with Phantoms Strawman 😉

  69. No you guys deny the laws of physics

    You think that collisions by Boeing 767s should have no impact on a tall building’s structural integrity.

    I’m catching the next flight to Aberdeen to confiscate Allan’s Engineer license.

  70. Phantom, on December 26th, 2013 at 10:14 PM Said:

    Enough of this

    The Chinese are about to receive an excellent cultural visit, that will make us all proud.

    The Budweiser clydesdale horses are being flown over for Chinese New Year.

    The horses will never get out alive of China, I bet they get eaten 😉

  71. But I take serious objection the the millions slaughtered in the name of various sky-gods. As I have posted before, it’s hard to imagine the pilots of 9-11 shouting “Darwin be praised!” as they flew the planes into the twin-towers.

    Peter,
    Soviet China and Soviet Russia killed and starved millions in the name of atheism, not a God of any kind. Ditto Nazi Germany.
    It may seem reasonable to blame religion for mass murders but don’t kid yourself that non believers have proved any more moral.

  72. Phantom

    You make oi larf

    You still actually believe the Twin towers were bought down by two aluminium aircraft ?

    God bless you little cotton socks my friend .. Ahh bless him

  73. Soviet China and Soviet Russia killed and starved millions in the name of atheism, not a God of any kind. Ditto Nazi Germany.

    Absolute bullshit, in the name of Atheism .. really ?

    In the name of cold blooded murder and power yes, but Atheism .. I don’t think so and no amount of your wacky ‘Howling at the moon’ websites could possibly prove otherwise, and you know it.

  74. Peter,
    Soviet China and Soviet Russia killed and starved millions in the name of atheism, not a God of any kind. Ditto Nazi Germany. It may seem reasonable to blame religion for mass murders but don’t kid yourself that non believers have proved any more moral.

    A8, I never said the non-believers were more moral. But they didn’t slaughter in the name of their non-belief, unlike the believers.

  75. Peter

    No problem Aileen. You can believe in the tooth fairy for all I care.

    What I believe has f’all squared to do with my point that in insignificant minority of people believe in a “sky-god”

    But I take serious objection the the millions slaughtered in the name of various sky-gods.

    So you take exception to something that didn’t happen as, as I said the belief in a “sky-god” is minimal.

  76. Agit

    Good evening, any luck yet?

    With those ‘Harri agrees with Allan’posts on the holocaust’ ‘denials’?

    Look, just apologise and we will call it quits 😉

  77. Harri,
    I never said you denied the holocaust. The argument was not about the accuracy of the numbers. It was about the attempt to exterminate a race of people that ran into millions of murders.
    Any man who ignores that and argues about how accurate the figures are is sick.

  78. So you take exception to something that didn’t happen as, as I said the belief in a “sky-god” is minimal.

    Maybe you should have explained that to the Romans 😉

  79. Absolute bullshit, in the name of Atheism .. really ?

    So what was one of the basic tenets of |Communism Harri?

    “There is NO God.”

  80. Harri

    Going by that ‘Old book’ I don’t think ‘being open to persuasion’ would have been any form of defence,

    Eh? No idea what you mean by that. I am open to persuasion that God living in the sky was ever a key point of mainstream orthodoxy.

    Did any men die, by being accused of being Wizards ..according to the old book?

    That seems a peculiar cause of death. Can a mere accusation cause death? Even if you had a heart attack as a result, surely the heart attack was what you died of not the accusation.

  81. Any man who ignores that and argues about how accurate the figures are is sick.

    It’s not sick, it’s free speech.

    Agit

    No Harri,
    I do think.

    So when I read your comments about Israel and Jews talking to walls coupled with your obvious respect and new found devotion to a man who dislikes the Jews and believes in things like or similar, to the Protocols of Zion; and expresses no real concern for the attempted extermination of the people you are part descended from:
    then when I described Allan and yourself as the Lone Ranger and Toto
    I had the right spelling for the right companion

    .

  82. Aileen

    I have no idea to be honest if you American of English, American is my best guess, they burnt women at the stake, those religious ‘men of the cloth’ in olde England .. and all based on the ‘Good book’

    I dont think, (unlike the Catholics) that they burnt to death many Wizards in England.

  83. to the Protocols of Zion

    Agit, you have finaly lost me there .. what in the name of all things holy, (And no, I am not taking the piss) .. is Zion

  84. as I said the belief in a “sky-god” is minimal.

    Eh? Where do these gods reside? I can think of at least five who appear to have no regular address. At least on the planet where (presumably) all of their followers reside.

  85. Peter.

    I do believe there is a ‘Fourth and Fifth Realm’ it’s not the sky after all, and they still take the piss out of David Icke 😉

    Surely, if the religious have even one single atom left of a sense of humour, even they can see the funny side and the irony in that.

  86. Peter, on December 26th, 2013 at 10:37 PM Said:

    as I said the belief in a “sky-god” is minimal.

    Eh? Where do these gods reside?

    In straightjackets I should think 😉

  87. Maybe it’s just me, but has anyone noticed that all our ‘Leaders’ announce that they do not ‘Do God’ until the brown stuff hits the whirly thing, and then they reach for the last known tool in the toolbox, and all of a sudden as if by magic .. they ‘Do God’

    Jesus will not be requiring my services as a sunbeam, now or in the near future.

    Note to any righteous .. now would be good time to faint 😉

  88. Agit

    If you are still searching franticly for a post by me reference the ‘Denial of the holocaust’ .. you will get blisters first 😉

  89. Harr

    Aileen
    I have no idea to be honest if you American of English, American is my best guess,

    Bless you 😀 No neither American or English. British though and living in my capital city London.

    they burnt women at the stake, those religious ‘men of the cloth’ in olde England .. and all based on the ‘Good book’
    I dont think, (unlike the Catholics) that they burnt to death many Wizards in England.

    But not for disbelief in a God in the sky.

    Peter

    Eh? Where do these gods reside? I can think of at least five who appear to have no regular address. At least on the planet where (presumably) all of their followers reside

    So because of that YOU stick them in the sky and mock that belief.

  90. Any man who ignores that and argues about how accurate the figures are is sick.

    Or, that man recognises himself as a free man and still believes in free speech and a difference of opinion.

    The Nazis denied anyone a difference of opinion too.

  91. Galilao was a brilliant mind, and the religous fruitcakes burnt him at the stake for ‘Heresy’

    No they didn’t- he died on natural causes in his late 70s.

  92. So because of that YOU stick them in the sky and mock that belief.

    I personaly did not stick them anywhere, Heaven is upwards as far as I am aware, so the Sky it is then 😉

    Aileen, you are not French are you? no offence intended 😉

  93. So because of that YOU stick them in the sky and mock that belief.

    Aileen, I have made it quite clear, I would mock anyone, even Aliens if they spoke to a brick wall 😉 let alone wailed at it!

    Talking to a brick wall is not even slightly old age tradition or romantic, it’s just pure unadulterated craziness.

    As I said, and still some people think David Icke and his Lizard theory is ‘Mad’ 😉

  94. But not for disbelief in a God in the sky.

    Apparently, now correct me if I am wrong here, but Heaven is up and Hell is down 😉

    Just so I

  95. Harri, on December 26th, 2013 at 11:06 PM Said:

    But not for disbelief in a God in the sky.

    Apparently, now correct me if I am wrong here, but Heaven is up and Hell is down

    Just so I know full well what direction to take 😉

    There are no shops in Heaven apparently .. or bars.

  96. Harri

    I personaly did not stick them anywhere, Heaven is upwards as far as I am aware, so the Sky it is then 😉
    Aileen, you are not French are you? no offence intended 😉

    That wasn’t addressed to you initially but it is now as that is where you are placing them/it/Him.

  97. Harri

    Aileen, I have made it quite clear, I would mock anyone, even Aliens if they spoke to a brick wall 😉 let alone wailed at it!
    Talking to a brick wall is not even slightly old age tradition or romantic, it’s just pure unadulterated craziness.
    As I said, and still some people think David Icke and his Lizard theory is ‘Mad’ 😉

    Why are you answering my posts in response to Peter as if they were responses to you? Not disputing your right to comment on any post but why answer as if it was directed to you?

  98. Anyway, I have to go now (much back slapping and cheering from the Biblical) and maybe some thids of heads hitting those coffee tables, but I have jkust been summoned upstairs by my wife, now either I have struck very lucky, or the TV is too loud 😉

    If it comes to pass that it just happens that it turns out to be the former, then maybe, just maybe there is a God after all.

    And if it’s the latter ..be back in about 20 seconds 😉

    Now, that would be absolute proof that Hell really does exist.

  99. Harri

    Apparently, now correct me if I am wrong here, but Heaven is up and Hell is down 😉

    Do you reckon? I don’t know of anyone of age in double figures who believes that.

  100. *thids … that sounds suspiciously like Yids (no offence Agit)

    I meant ‘Thuds’ .. honest and cross my blackened soul and heart

  101. Do you reckon? I don’t know of anyone of age in double figures who believes that.

    Don’t blame me Aileen, blame my RI teacher.. I knew she was lying from an early age 😉

  102. There are countless references in the Bible – Old and New parts – to God living in the sky. That’s probably where they got it.

    Harri, maybe you are confusing Gallileo with Kepler, who also wasn’t burned at the stake, but whose birthday, like mine, is today.

    BTW, about witchcraft in the US: in the (in)famous Salem witch hunt, at total of no more than 20 people were executed for witchcraft (none of them were burned).
    By contrast, under the Witchcraft Act in Scotland alone, over 2000 people were executed, some by burning, most were tortured, including into the 18th Century.

  103. No neither American or English. British though and living in my capital city London.

    You are Irish, just like David Vance. Born on the island of Ireland. Jaysus, all this talk of ‘Truthers’ and ‘Deniers’, and some people here still Deny the Truth 😉

    Just windin’ you up, Aileen (but not you, David 🙂 ). Hope you both had a lovely Christmas 🙂

    I hope all the ill and infirm (hi Agit8ed 😉 ) are feeling better (so, McMahon, how many ‘medicinal’ hot whiskeys is it now?).

    Breithlá sona, Noel. Hope you had a great day 🙂

    Peter – a while back, there was talk about an ATW Belfast Summit. Do you think you could make one some time over the holidays? If so, David has my e-mail. Get in touch and we’ll organise something.

    Everyone else – Nollaig shona (belated!). Hope you all had a lovely day, and best wishes for the new year! 🙂

  104. Thank you Seimi,
    I trust you had a lovely and peaceful Christmas in the bosom of your family.
    Although I seem to remember that you have children, so scrub the peaceful bit.. 🙂

  105. Harri,
    I hope you have got over the slightly hysterical outpourings of yesterday.
    Perhaps you should stick to slivovitz? Or maybe try full strength Horlicks.

    Anyway,
    just picking up on a few of the bits you and Peter were throwing out like an out of control clay pigeon launcher…

    Sky God: a nonsense derisory term used by scornful people who are so up their own intellectual back passages they aren’t interested in any other hypothesis.

    Jews and Christians and probably many other faiths do not believe God is in the sky.

    There is no “up” and “down”, but at the time God was communicating to man through the prophets and the scriptures, it appeared to those people that that is how it was. So presumably God worked with what they saw because they had no scientific means of knowing otherwise. That seems pretty reasonable.

    We believe by faith (and without discounting what science has found out so far),that God is everywhere. He is outside of time and space. He has always existed.
    We believe that there can be no ultimate contradiction between science and faith because God is the great Scientist and Designer who made all things. Science discovers what exists and how it works and how it can be used/modified/manipulated. When science ventures into the realm of WHY it exists, it creates hypotheses based on observation and deduction and demonstration.

    Very similar to what Christians/believers do by faith.

    There are many intelligent and educated people in all branches of the sciences who accept these ideas, and try to live their lives on accordance with the teachings of their faith. Just as you do with your faith in man, science and (presumably) alcohol.

    Some of them actually talk to a brick wall you know

    It is made of stone Harri, not brick.
    It is the last remaining part of the outer or perimeter wall built by King Solomon (you might of heard of him Harri, he was Jewish)that surrounded the temple building itself.
    Much of the original walls in perfect condition, can be seen below the present level. Some of these foundation stones are estimated to weigh 517 tonnes Harri, so they’re a bit big to be described as bricks.
    (But why spoil a good laugh at the naive with the truth, eh?)

    http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/inpictures/2012/10/20121031112633999227.html

    So those pious Jews are not talking to the wall, they are praying at the wall, as the closest they can come to the Jewish second temple built in honour of their Jewish concept/understanding of God.

  106. (But why spoil a good laugh at the naive with the truth, eh?)

    Exactly the same goes for 9/11?

    Why let facts, scioence and the Law of physics get in the way of a good laugh, and you have joinedc in, lets try and make those people look foolish, callin g them ‘Truthers and other childish names ‘Truthers’ etc:

    By the way, alcohol, No, not last night, I have to abstain, it’s the heart see. youn threw the childish Toto the dog allens pet thing so stop with all the self righteous stuff, you also threw the holocaust at me, wrong again..

    As for your chosen God, I really could not care, that’s your chosen God, get on with it, and wailing at a wall whilst rocking backwards and forwards no matter how big those ‘bricks’ are .. is still as baffling as it is strange.

    Have a good day.

  107. By the way, asking the question ‘why did your all powerful God not intervene when 6 million human beings who just happen to be the chosen ones were being butchered’

    You failed to mention that post of last night
    .

  108. //When science ventures into the realm of WHY it exists//

    Why should science ask such an absurd question.

    Thanks for the good wishes, Seimi and Harri. I was commenting after midnight (I think) here in eastern Europe, when it was already Friday.

  109. By the way, asking the question ‘why did your all powerful God not intervene when 6 million human beings who just happen to be the chosen ones were being butchered’

    You failed to mention that post of last night

    I happily discuss stuff like that with people who want to know what I think about it. I don’t discuss it with people who think they’re comedians.

    But on 3oth January in Norwich there is a lecture being given by a Dr. Edward Kessler on

    “Jewish and Christian theological responses to the Holocaust”

    I shall be going with a Jewish guy from our village. So if you fancy your chances at sorting out that or anything else, I’ll pit my lungs against your heart, and we’ll see who has the last laugh… 🙂

  110. I shall be going with a Jewish guy from our village. So if you fancy your chances at sorting out that or anything else, I’ll pit my lungs against your heart, and we’ll see who has the last laugh…

    I am not the one who is suffering at the moment 🙂

    A preaching session .. thanks, but no thanks 😉

  111. Why should science ask such an absurd question.

    These Classical Greek philosopher guys thought it an ‘absurd question’ worth asking..

    http://www.yale.edu/ynhti/curriculum/units/1980/5/80.05.11.x.html

    Then there’s these modern guys.
    Hawkins
    Dawkins
    Hoyle
    Einstein
    etc
    http://space.about.com/od/astronomybasics/a/Origin-Of-The-Universe.htm

    Of course, had they the sense to have consulted you first, they would have realised “we live in the eternal Noel.”

  112. “Jewish and Christian theological responses to the Holocaust”

    What about keeping it simple, why a ‘jewish and Christian theological’ response, why not just a human response?

    It’s a fair question and deserves a fair answer, as does 9/11, the real cold blooded murderers are still out there somwhere if there is an all powerful man, (wherever he of she resides) I hope he or she, or Karma gets them.

  113. A preaching session .. thanks, but no thanks.

    There you go again.
    Let’s make it a laugh rather than an exchange of ideas. It’s a lecture Harri.
    The guy I am going with is not in the least religious or God believing.
    But unlike you, he is unashamed of his Jewish origins, doesn’t pour scorn on them and is interested in the Holocaust.
    My wife and I went to Yad Vashem in Jerusalem.

    http://www.yadvashem.org/yv/en/museum/index.asp?WT.mc_id=ggcamp&WT.srch=17
    I didn’t count up all the numbers to see if they really came to six million.
    I didn’t need to.

  114. What about keeping it simple, why a ‘jewish and Christian theological’ response, why not just a human response?

    I really struggle with your logic.
    What do you mean “just a human response”?
    What does that mean??
    There are no just human reponses because we are all shaped and conditioned by beliefs and values and practices which give us an identity and enable us to belong to a group.

    Even one of the most ardent of those ‘non atheistic’ Soviet communists were shaped by and acted upon their beliefs Harri. A “human response” is meaningless.

    So in this case a civilised nation shaped largely by distorted Christian values (i.e. the concept of a state church) sought to eradicate a race of dispossessed people shaped by Jewish religious beliefs expressed in slightly different ways. Devout/agnostic/progressive/cultural. It didn’t matter to the Nazis (your mate’s heroes) because if you looked like a Jew what you actually believed or did was irrelevant.
    So in this context you can’t have ‘just a human response.’
    Geddit?

  115. I didn’t count up all the numbers to see if they really came to six million.
    I didn’t need to

    .

    There you go again with the magic six million number .. six would have been six too many.

    ‘Being a comediane’ who was it that, ‘cast the first stone’ Allans dog ring any bells, Agit you are much more adept at hypocricy than you are at insulting 😉

    What about the 70 + million human beings who were exterminated during WWII, are you going to discuss them too?

  116. By the way, I would much rather enjoy my two hour drive to Norfolk to spend some quality time in an historic field, detector in one hand and a spade in the other 😉

  117. and wailing at a wall whilst rocking backwards and forwards no matter how big those ‘bricks’ are .. is still as baffling as it is strange.

    Again,
    they are not wailing, they are praying. It is sometimes called the ‘Wailing Wall’ because the Jewish people were thrown out of Jerusalem by the Romans and the temple and city razed to the ground.
    http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/913023/jewish/The-Second-Temple.htm
    so the devout Jews wail or mourn the loss of their temple and national life.
    Why do they rock back and forth?
    It’s called dovenning (praying) and some say the movement is based on,

    “All my bones shall say: ‘HaShem, who is like unto Thee” Psalm 35:10 and this verse is interpreted as an appeal to involve one’s whole body in prayer.

    Question of the Month:

    Now had you been Jewish and had you also been of an enquiring mind you could have found this out for yourself.
    But maybe wilful ignorance and mockery is easier?

  118. There you go again with the magic six million number .. six would have been six too many.

    (Sighs heavily)
    Harri I don’t think you understand what I am saying about this subject. Perhaps it would make more sense if you wrote down what you think I am saying?

  119. Harri I don’t think you understand what I am saying about this subject. Perhaps it would make more sense if you wrote down what you think I am saying?

    What about the 70 + million human beings who were exterminated during WWII, are you going to discuss them too?

    It was not the wilful extermination of six million ‘Chosen ones’

    Now I have to unfortunately go shopping 😉

    Tada for now

  120. Precisely Agit ..

    9/11

    And WHY do you keep bringing 9/11 and trutherism into it? I don’t know what trutherism is, haven’t commented on it and neither in this thread, 9/11. You had that (slightly inebriated I guess) conversation with somebody else. Phantom I think.

  121. By the way, I would much rather enjoy my two hour drive to Norfolk to spend some quality time in an historic field, detector in one hand and a spade in the other

    I would have liked that too, but you missed your chance. Right now it’s more likely you would return to London with your detector wrapped around your head.
    (using the most kindly, Christian, or “just human response” I could think of at the time…. 😉

  122. They just don’t get it .. do they

    It’s just as well that we have really smug intelligent people who can see through all the lies that the Illuminati & Freemasons feed us to keep us right then isn’t it?

    Happy belated birthday Noel, (so strange that an Irish guy called Noel would have his birthday at this time of the year 😉 )

    Seimi, just the half dozen medicinal hot Jamesons last night.

  123. //These Classical Greek philosopher guys thought it an ‘absurd question’ worth asking..//

    ..and then you go on to link to a site that does not in the slightest support your view.
    Do you even read your own links?

    Any “why” asked by science is directed at a material function on the level of the single organism or species: Why do giraffes have long necks, why do elephants leave the group to die, etc.
    It is not directed at any metaphysical “why” the universe exists, which is what you were talking about.

    Citing Dawkins, Hawkins and Einstein as allies for your case is even more bizarre than citing the ancient Greeks. They would be the last to claim some purpose of the reason in a metaphysical sense.

    There is of course another Why in philoshopy – why should we do one thing rather than another. This is part of human ethics and again has nothing to do with any “purpose” of the universe.

    That discussion on theology and the Holocaust sounds very interesting. It’s a very depressing subject – it has led many Jews to abandon any belief.
    There was no cosmic Why about the holocaust. It was just an awful example of the horror that can happen when certain men abandon traditional ethics. It’s good that it’s kept before the public eye, as people of all periods and cultures will always have a lot to learn from it. I think people who deny it happened are, almost by necessity, more prone to the attitudes and behaviour that caused it.

  124. They just don’t get it .. do they

    Paul – you’re right. Those smug people such as Harri and I just spend our time looking at “howl at the moon” sites, such as those I posted on December 26th, 2013 at 9:19 PM

  125. Paul – you’re right

    I know I am Allan. I really don’t have the time nor inclination to go back and dredge the websites you’ve provided as backing ‘evidence’ previously.

    As I said; thank providence that we have super intellects who can see that life as we sheeple know it is a conspiracy theory.

  126. I would have liked that too, but you missed your chance. Right now it’s more likely you would return to London with your detector wrapped around your head.

    How very Christian

    Agit, I doubt you could reach that far up 😉

  127. /These Classical Greek philosopher guys thought it an ‘absurd question’ worth asking..//

    ..and then you go on to link to a site that does not in the slightest support your view.
    Do you even read your own links?

    It wasn’t meant to support my view. You said it was an absurd question to ask about the why. My links were meant to illustrate the fact that clever people have been trying to figure out the nature and origins and the why of the universe for a very long time…

  128. “The human mind is not capable of grasping the Universe. We are like a little child entering a huge library. The walls are covered to the ceilings with books in many different tongues. The child knows that someone must have written these books. It does not know who or how. It does not understand the languages in which they are written. But the child notes a definite plan in the arrangement of the books—-a mysterious order which it does not comprehend, but only dimly suspects.
    Albert Einstein

    “The scientist is possessed by the sense of universal causation … His religious feeling takes the form of a rapturous amazement at the harmony of natural law, which reveals an intelligence of such superiority that, compared with it, all the systematic thinking and acting of human beings is an utterly insignificant reflection.”
    Albert Einstein

    Big Bang Theory – What About God?
    Any discussion of the Big Bang theory would be incomplete without asking the question, what about God? This is because cosmogony (the study of the origin of the universe) is an area where science and theology meet. Creation was a supernatural event. That is, it took place outside of the natural realm. This fact begs the question: is there anything else which exists outside of the natural realm? Specifically, is there a master Architect out there? We know that this universe had a beginning. Was God the “First Cause”? We won’t attempt to answer that question in this short article. We just ask the question:

    Does God Exist?

    “The laws of science, as we know them at present, contain many fundamental numbers, like the size of the electric charge of the electron and the ratio of the masses of the proton and the electron …. The remarkable fact is that the values of these numbers seem to have been finely adjusted to make possible the development of life.”
    Stephen Hawking

    “A common sense interpretation of the facts suggests that a superintellect has monkeyed with the physics, as well as with chemistry and biology, and that there are no blind forces worth speaking about in nature. The numbers one calculates from the facts seem to me so overwhelming as to put this conclusion almost beyond question.”
    Sir Fred Hoyle

    “The big bang theory requires a recent origin of the Universe that openly invites the concept of creation.”
    Fred Hoyle
    “The Intelligent Universe”

    “We can’t understand the universe in any clear way without the supernatural.”
    Allan Sandage

    “We do, of course, have an alternative. We could say that there was no creation, and that the universe has always been here. But this is even more difficult to accept than creation.”
    Barry Parker
    “Creation—the Story of the Origin and Evolution of the Universe”

    I would respectfully suggest that the “how?” will always be followed by the “why?”
    So whilst it is no longer fashionable to believe in Creation, there are only two choices. Either it is all a huge meaningless accident or it was Created.
    The fact that many great men of science and philosophy did/do accept at least the possibility of Creation, shows that scientists can and do ask the question.

    I personally take the view that if it were all meaningless and everybody in the world believed life to be meaningless, chaos and destruction would eventually follow.

  129. I really don’t have the time nor inclination to go back and dredge the websites you’ve provided as backing ‘evidence’ previously.

    Paul – I saved you a lot of time which you would have spent ‘dredging’ by providing the times and sources linked as support. The sources are indeed “howl at the moon” types as I’m sure that you’ll agree. Here they are as posted above on December 26th, 2013 at 9:19 PM

    Allan@Aberdeen, on December 23rd, 2013 at 7:39 PM
    The BBC – jewish broadcaster

    Allan@Aberdeen, on December 24th, 2013 at 4:05 PM
    Jewish Forward – jewish news site

    Allan@Aberdeen, on December 24th, 2013 at 4:06 PM
    Conference of Presidents of Major American Jewish Organizations – linkage for organised jewry in the US

    Allan@Aberdeen, on December 24th, 2013 at 4:22 PM
    JTA – global jewish news source

    Allan@Aberdeen, on December 24th, 2013 at 4:37 PM
    March 22, 2013

    Dear President Obama and Members of Congress:
    We, the undersigned Jewish organizations and leaders, strongly believe that our country would benefit from an overhaul of our nation’s broken immigration system. Our views are shaped by our Jewish religious and ethical traditions, as well as our own history in this country and by core American values. The commandment to ‘welcome the stranger’ is mentioned 36 times throughout the Torah, more than any other commandment.

    We look forward to working together to improve our country’s immigration system in a way that honors our American and Jewish values.

    Sincerely,

    National Organizations

     American Forum of Russian Jewry (AFRJ)
     American Jewish Committee
     Anti‐Defamation League
     Bend the Arc: A Jewish Partnership for Justice
     B’nai B’rith International
     Bukharian Jewish Congress of the USA and Canada
     HIAS (Hebrew Immigrant Aid Society)
     Jewish Council on Public Affairs
    etc…….

    Allan@Aberdeen, on December 25th, 2013 at 1:20 AM
    Times of Israel

    Allan@Aberdeen, on December 25th, 2013 at 9:55 AM
    Atlanta Black Star referencing Ha’aretz, an Israeli newspaper

    Allan@Aberdeen, on December 25th, 2013 at 7:20 PM
    Israel national news

    Allan@Aberdeen, on December 25th, 2013 at 8:14 PM
    Jewish Chronicle

    Yes Paul – the people who run these sites are nutters and megalomaniacs. They actually do believe that they were ‘Chosen’ by God to rule over the rest of humanity. Ask Roger Waters.

  130. Dear President Obama and Members of Congress:
    We, the undersigned Jewish organizations and leaders, strongly believe that our country would benefit from an overhaul of our nation’s broken immigration system. Our views are shaped by our Jewish religious and ethical traditions, as well as our own history in this country and by core American values. The commandment to ‘welcome the stranger’ is mentioned 36 times throughout the Torah, more than any other commandment.

    We look forward to working together to improve our country’s immigration system in a way that honors our American and Jewish values.

    Incredibly underhand that, Allan.
    And what’s all that about “Our views are shaped by our Jewish religious and ethical traditions”

    What are they, Yids or something?

    And this,
    ” to improve our country’s immigration system

    in a way that honors our American and Jewish values.

    Huh! Sounds suspiciously like they want to improve the immigration system..
    That’s gotta be bad.

  131. I read your re post the first time round. I meant previously

    But you already knew that.

    Thank the Gods for the super informed to lead us mere mortals.

  132. The Christian religious guys have been saying the exact same thing – as our resident neo national socialist has been ignoring…

  133. Agit8ed, on December 26th, 2013 at 9:09 PM Said:

    I have stated many times on ATW that the number 6million may be disputable (although there are Jewish organisations which have used the Nazi’s own figures to arrive at 6 million)……..

    Please provide a link to source material

    I don’t care what self hating sources Allan uses for his arguments.

    Translation – I don’t want to look at anything which is contrary to my new-found religion – Holocaustianity

    What Allan presents is a form of fanaticism, and he doesn’t want to meet the people or discuss the issues with them.

    Sure I want to discuss the issues, but just look at what happens here when I attempt to do so.

    Agit8ed, on December 27th, 2013 at 9:57 AM Said:
    But on 3oth January in Norwich there is a lecture being given by a Dr. Edward Kessler on

    “Jewish and Christian theological responses to the Holocaust”

    And here we see the root of the problem. Agit views the HolocaustTM as a religious matter whereas I look for the irrefutable evidence of:

    a) the decision to eradicate the jews of Europe and
    b) the infrastructure to eradicate the jews of Europe and
    c) the remnants of an industrialised attempt eradicate the jews of Europe

    As there is no evidence supporting a), b) and c) though plenty which refutes the argument, those who dispute the HolocaustTM have to be treated as heretics – imprisonment, vilification, loss of work and destitution are the methods used in Europe to deal with those who challenge Holocaustianity. Agit is religious but not in any way capable of grasping technical concepts such as:
    a) cyanide leaves distinct residues – why are there none in the alleged ‘gas chambers’?
    b) 6 million is a lot of bodies – why are there no aerial photographs showing the disposal and cremation operations?
    c) for a ‘death camp’ there seem to have been quite a few births in Auschwitz. What happened to those born and how were they conceived in a ‘death camp’?
    d) with 500,000 holocaust survivors alive today, just how many were alive in November 1944? (that’s 69 years ago, btw)
    so Holocaustianity as a theological construct fits nicely into his mind.

    These and many other matters are not trivial. Nonetheless, given Agit’s invitation to “meet the people and discuss the issues”, we’ll make a start here and then I’ll come down to England to do exactly as he asks. I hope he doesn’t mind if I too bring a jewish friend along.

  134. Agit – if you were to follow the link back, you would see the full letter. It’s very generous of organised jewry to request that the US open its borders to allow in the 3rd-world whereas these same organisations oppose that for Israel. Likewise, the same is being done by organised jewry in every white western country, but again the same rejection of this policy for Israel.

    Given your links to jews, could you explain why there is such a policy for jews and another for goyim?

    Here’s the link:

    http://intranet.hias.org/uploaded/file/019d91f6add54d316cbfafffb6012ebe.pdf

  135. Well Allan, I haven’t found what I would regard as a balanced quote from a link I respect,
    So until I do (and I will try because it is strange) I will put my own observations.

    1)

    Given your links to jews, could you explain why there is such a policy for jews and another for goyim?

    I suppose that it might have something to do with the fact that for nearly 2000 years goyim seemed to think it would be more fun to kick the crap out the Jews rather than join their posse; so after the Holocaust the Jews finally got the message and withdrew the free exclusive to Goys lifetime membership offer with an option on an apartment in Netanya.

    2) Seeing as there are sime millions of Jews living in the United States, most making a comfortable living my dear, why would they want to wreck the America they are proud to be citizens of?

  136. Agit – your item 1) answers your item 2). When Europe and the US are trashed by the detritus which organised jewry brought into these countries, they’ll have Israel – pure, jewish only, no Schwartzes.

    What amazes me after the centuries where jews have been kicked out of cities, principalities and entire countries for their usurious and blood-letting habits (read Chaucer – A Canterbury Tale) is that they always want to get back in again. Why?

  137. And here we see the root of the problem. Agit views the HolocaustTM as a religious matter

    Wot??
    No Agit does not.
    Agit sees it as a historical event that shamed the German nation and traumatised that generation of Jewish survivors (oops sorry Allan, I mean submenschen).

    You ought to take yourself off to Israel and visit Yad Vahem or kibbutz Lochamei haGhettaot where the survivors of the ghetto resistance still live.
    See the reality, not the propaganda.

  138. they’ll have Israel – pure, jewish only, no Schwartzes.

    Ermmm,

    look at the photos Allan, there’s a good boy….

    https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=Ethiopian+and+Yemeni+Jews+in+Israel&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=u9a9UrH0FoqBhAe9toCADA&ved=0CFYQsAQ&biw=1366&bih=598

    ….is that they always want to get back in again. Why?

    Probably for the same reason as the Scots keep going places they’re not wanted. They can’t believe that nobody loves them.

    ps
    your antisemitic petticoat is slipping again..

  139. Agit8ed, your quotes above show you don’t understand Einstein in particular or science in general. Einstein wrote, directly prior to the passage you quoted, which qualifies it:

    the scientist is possessed by the sense of universal causation. The future, to him, is every whit as necessary and determined as the past. There is nothing divine about morality, it is a purely human affair.

    The chain of causation rules out a Deux ex Machina, which suddenly appeared or was always there without having to evolve itself, but which first, presumably, created air and then a universe out of this thin air.
    Einstein, and Hawkins, are saying that our perception of the universe and nature shows an incredibly neat system and an awe-inspiring harmony – for example, the periodic table, which shows every atom in the universe in just a few ordered rows and columns. This stimulates people, not to stand in wonderment as one would in the face of a creation, but to investigate it, discover its structure and why, in this case, elements occupy the position they do and share properties with other, totally different, elements.
    The structure is a product of the nature of matter itself and of, perhaps, our limited ability to comprehend it.

    //I would respectfully suggest that the “how?” will always be followed by the “why?”//

    Why in the sense of what meaning do the parts have for the whole, as I mentioned above, e.g. why are there rings in a tree? That’s a very different Why to celestial speculation about Why the tree is there in the first place.

    //I personally take the view that if it were all meaningless and everybody in the world believed life to be meaningless, chaos and destruction would eventually follow.//

    You seem to assume that people who don’t see any Why for the universe, or even think it’s worthwhile asking the question, consider “life to be meaninglesss”. That’s total nonsense.
    If you meant to say that if people don’t see some divine purpose in the world, chaos and destruction will follow, you are again totally wrong.
    Experience shows, for example, that the societies in Europe where religious feeling is lowest are among the most ordered in the world. Whereas societies in which religious feeling is strong almost always have more than their share of biotry, chaos, oppression and killing.

  140. Experience shows, for example, that the societies in Europe where religious feeling is lowest are among the most ordered in the world. Whereas societies in which religious feeling is strong almost always have more than their share of biotry, chaos, oppression and killing.

    How many years you going back Noel? You ignoring all the religious wars, the sectarian wars?

    You seem to assume that people who don’t see any Why for the universe, or even think it’s worthwhile asking the question, consider “life to be meaninglesss”.

    No I don’t think that. Many people never think about life anyway,they’re quite happy with what they have, But if one does think about it, then logically the how and the why must come into it.

    This stimulates people, not to stand in wonderment as one would in the face of a creation, but to investigate it, discover its structure and why, in this case, elements occupy the position they do and share properties with other, totally different, elements.

    But people of faith can do that too. In fact we would say (well not I, I ain’t intelligent enough to study it) that to discover and investigate is part of being truly human, truly created. THEN we might worship the One who made it and designed the laws that govern it. Why would the two be mutually exclusive?

    Finally those classical Greek (and other)philosophers and thinkers were trying to make sense make order out of what they could observe with their physical senses.
    Which might suggest Noel, that as I said men are not content with what is, or living in a chaotic universe.(Thinking) Man instinctively seeks meaning: the how and the why.

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