………………….until it has been denied; officially.
That quotation, care of an Irish journalist named Claud Cockburn, says a great deal about the person, and the television station she worked for over five years which I write about today. The t.v. station is Russia Today, and the reporter’s name was Sara Firth. She resigned from her work as a tv reporter because she states she was disgusted at having to push ‘slanted’ reports over the massacre of innocents who flew, unknowing of their fate, on Malaysian Airways MH17.
She stated she resigned in disgust because said reports being run by the station gave her a ‘kick in the stomach” and ‘disrespected the facts’, prompting her to hand in her notice. She said it was the ‘straw that broke the camel’s back’ after growing increasingly frustrated during her five years as an employee.
Now apart from the fact that Russia Today is, and always has been, a totally-paid-up member of the President Putin fan club, bought by the Kremlin; we must examine this female reporter’s beliefs and statements, both from the present and from the past. If, as she states, just about all news stories and commentary was slanted to place a Kremlin- and Putin-friendly viewpoint across the news-screens of the world, how is it that it took her five long years before she ‘saw the light’, and resigned?
Did this articulate and well-educated woman just have a sudden ‘Damascene Conversion’ over one lie too much, after speaking the Kremlin’s propaganda and slush for five years? She states that she was ‘increasingly frustrated’ and Firth also claimed the news organization has promoted Russian propaganda for years. The network uses young, obedient reporters for big, controversial stories — the less-experienced journalists are more likely to stay on message, she said, “The second you start to question or report honestly then you’re a problem.” Still, she respects many of her co-workers. She said many of them tell the truth, and have tried to fight the system while keeping their jobs on the inside.
Or did she finally decide that she should never have commenced working for a Putin- and Kremlin-backed t.v. station which has been routinely laughed at for the ludicrous manner in which it shamelessly followed the Russian-line, no matter what the actual facts might dictate?
That last query, of course, might well be aimed at another broadcaster which we are all, unfortunately, well-acquainted with? Answers on a used postcard, please.
104 thoughts on “Never believe anything………..”
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I would think that those who work for RT, which is basically a parody of what a news channel should be, come from two categories
a) those who were never capable of getting a job anywhere else
or
b) those who are well past their sell by date ( Hi, Larry King )
That’s it.
Virtually the entire Russian media is in Putin’s pocket and has been spouting the party line since the plane crashed. Which is that as this benefits the fascist Ukranian junta, they must have done it, and the sober, peace-loving Russian separatists have been framed.
Of course a significant number of journalists have been murdered in Putin’s Russia.
Putin is still a KGB criminal at heart
Ain’t that the truth.
As opposed to the fearless, independentm free-thinking Western media, which knew immediately that the “TERRORIST PUTIN” supplied “PUTIN’S MISSILE”, and so PUTIN MURDERED THE PASSENGERS”, leading to the AUSCHWITZ DEATH TRAIN”.
They’ve acted hand-in-glove with the war party in London and Washington, desperate to print any blatant propaganda as long as it makes conflict with Russia more palatable. They’ve printed a catalogue of lies and photos and videos put out by the gangster Kiev junta which the Western war parties installed, even after they’ve been debunked by the million miles-per-hour internet.
But today, it was disclosed that US Intelligence has “NO EVIDENCE” linking Moscow to the crash. No evidence whatsoever, which is what we’ve been waiting to see. While Cameron and Obama and Kerry and McCain and the rest of the warlords made the most stupid and dangerous accusations, they did so without any evidence to do so.
Oh, but RT is biased. Big deal!
And let’s be clear on something else. In lieu of actual “FACTS”, the spooks have made up the line that “Russia ‘created conditions’ for the plane disaster”.
This is absolute drivel. The conditions were created by the aggressors in London and Washington and Brussels, who sought to bring about Cameron’s ambition to push the EU to the Urals.
Peter Hitchens, a genuinely independent journalist, that rare thing now, had it exactly right when he laid the blame on the real aggressors for a war which is killing hundreds and hundreds of civilians, most at the hands of the Kiev gangsters without the Western press taking any notice:
We are being governed by wicked, war-loving liars, who are reported on by loyal, lying, stenographers. Who cares if some anonymous autocutie walks out of RT? There are more important things going on.
It is beyond doubt that the Russian government controls RT and much of the Russian media whilst in the US the owners of the media control the government. But on the matter of MH370, Putin’s position becomes reasonable as soon as one reads the headlines from the linked story. Here they are:
Reading no. 1 carefully, it says that Sara Firth handed in her notice hours after the plane was shot down in protest at disrespect of the facts. But when were these ‘facts’ established? The facts are yet to be established – that’s what flight data recorders and examination of wreckage do.
On no.2 I have no idea how she felt. Perhaps when she saw that two bottles of Scotch whisky had survived unbroken and unlooted (yes – UNLOOTED when there were ‘Putin’s drunken looters all over the plane’) and label face-up, she may have felt a bit queasy.
No.3 – blame the Ukraine. If Russia is being blamed and facts are not established, then of course Russia would use its media to blame the other party.
And now no.4. The majority of news outlets are a herd whose reports follow the same single source. As we have seen from the front pages of British newspapers, the narrative is the same – ‘Putin murdered my son/daughter/goldfish/song’, ‘Putin’s terrorists’ etc. The majority of media outlets are staffed by airheads every bit as stupid as those who present the news on RT. They know nothing, and the facts are not established – but the facts are being established right now by people who don’t work for mass media.
Don’t be so naive you chaps. Have you never visited the premier propaganda website for Europe?
http://europa.eu/index_en.htm
There is a large western press that is often extremely critical of western governments. This blog is actually a small part of that press. We are all pretty much among the critics.
The freedom of the press such as it exists in all of our countries does not exist in Russia. A free press had started to emerge, but it has been crushed by the current government.
“Putin is still a KGB criminal at heart”
And our lot are different? – What our lot lack in cupidity they make up for it with stupidity!
Everything that has been said re RT, applies to our media, both written and broadcast. Our ‘leaders’ no longer speak for a unified nation, hence their inability to provide any sort of leadership.
Phantom,
The problem is that the so-called ‘freedom of the press’ allows our potential enemies to establish a strong and viable ‘fifth column’. They mistake our tolerance as a weakness, – which it is, – and they are very quick to use it to their advantage.
Ernest
I ain’t buying that.
You would know the British press a lot better than I, but I have repeatedly seen major US papers make the lives of US presidents and other powerful people here miserable with fact based reporting.
That doesn’t happen in Russia.
I know that ATW has a lot of respect for Ron Paul, so it’s good to see his considered opinion on this matter:
http://ronpaulinstitute.org/archives/featured-articles/2014/july/20/what-the-media-won%E2%80%99t-report-about-malaysian-airlines-flight-mh17.aspx
Ron Paul is apparently in the know as per the nature of technical training Russia gives to the seps in Ukraine
Boy he knows everything
Phantom,
” I have repeatedly seen major US papers make the lives of US presidents and other powerful people here miserable “
In the past maybe, nowadays criticism, such as it is, is reduced to nit-picking squabbling with nothing but party politics in mind.
Certainly not since Nixon has the press had much influence on ‘governance’, and possibly even longer since even a modest degree of leadership been shown.
That the current POTUS has demonstrated a new, and previously unacceptable low in intellect, integrity and a poor general representation of a truly ‘United States’, seems to have escaped your notice. His demonstration of loyalty seems to lay elsewhere.
That only makes sense in a right wing talk radio / ATW world.
The press made Clinton’s life miserable and they savaged GW Bush.
Obama has not been similarly abused, and maybe he should have been, but to say that the press hasn’t been hard on presidents since the days of Tricky Dick is manifestly untrue.
http://bigstory.ap.org/article/us-present-intelligence-data-plane-crash-0
Given that the US terrorist supply network funds ISIS, al-qaeda, Mexican drug gangs, Israel etc. can we take the above as a principle i.e. culpable by ‘creation of conditions’?
That is a bare-faced lie. Russia has released satellite images of Ukrainian AA systems in the vicinity and has asked the US to release its images as corroboration.
Phantom writes:
Go on then – provide some back-up.
That’s not what they said, once again you are taking Russian spin and presenting it as the neutral truth. A mistake you will keep making if you rely on propaganda outlets for an interpretation of the facts.
What the USA said is summed up here.
In other words the Americans have claimed that there is a great deal of evidence linking the attack to Russian separatists and evidence that Russia is backing them but that does not extend to identifying the actual people who fired the rocket. Which is pretty much what was believed anyway.
To interpret that as saying “The Americans have admitted there’s no evidence” is just nonsense.
Allan
If you have no idea where the US press gave Clinton and GW Bush a hard time, I can’t help you.
Ross –
You’re talking nonsense.
Since the hour of the crash, Western politicians and media have directly linked Putin to it. They have blamed him personally. Now let me quote back to you your link:
They have nothing, not a thing to pin on Putin. The mega-billion US Intelligence strutcure hasn’t come up with one piece of tangible evidence. It’s so bare the State Department had cite twitter and youtube videos, most of which have long been debunked.
The neocons were asked to put up and they came up with nothing.
This is Syria all over again, which was a pack of lies. This is Iraq again, which was a pack of lies. Time and time again the power elites are desperate to drag us into ruinous wars and you always fall for it.
How many times will you believe their lies? How ioften will you believe obvious liars?
Phantom –
When did any Washington court stenographer describe GWB for what he is – a terroristic warlord who should have been put down?
Opposing policies isn’t “opposition”. They are all loyal to Washington in the end.
” neo cons ” – The same curse words. Like a few years ago when the Code Pinks used Halliburton as a curse word.
You have nothing linking Putin to the seps? They’re not allied? Is Putin aware that these groups exist?
GWB was a twice eleced president who was severely criticized.
As was Clinton. As was Reagan. As was Carter. Etc.
As Putin has not been.
//To interpret that as saying “The Americans have admitted there’s no evidence” is just nonsense.//
The report says: “The intelligence officials [noted that] the U.S. had no direct evidence that the missile used to shoot down the passenger jet came from Russia.,,
the officials said they did not know who fired the missile or whether any Russian operatives were present at the missile launch.”
That’s not far from Allan’s interpretation at all.
For what it’s worth, those people quoted in the report sound to my ears more like voicing US reluctance to point the finger out of fear of having to act on it, or being called out for not acting on it. If the US declared it was the Russians and still did nothing about it, it would set a precedent and restrict US options – in both directions – in similar cases in the future.
I think the important thing here is that – like we hear about Israel every day now – they were not trying to kill the civilians. Shooting down the plane was almost certainly an accident, in contrast to cases in the past when civilian airliners were deliberately shot down by Russia and Israel etc.
No, they’ve provided evidence that it was shot down by the rebels and that Russia has been arming them.
What you mean that there was a dispute over what happened with Russia claiming one version and the West claiming another? And Russia being found out to be completely wrong? You’ve mentioned Syria before but you have obviously not looked at the evidence if you think it vindicates your position.
Have a look at the report into the investigation here and you will see confirmation that Sarin gas was fired using Syrian regime controlled weapons, from regime controlled territory.
Being wrong at the time is one thing, but the fact that you are now claiming this as vindication months after you were shown to be wrong suggests that you haven’t looked at the facts at all.
The “power elites” can’t even bring themselves to impose meaningful sanctions on Russia, the idea that they are angling for war is risible. The one man who has actually started a war is the one person who seems to be immune from accusations of being a war monger.
I’ve just watched a video about the shooting down of KAL 007 (not on a spy mission, the number is pure coincidence) near Sakhalin in 1983. It shows how the US took recordings of the telecoms between the pilot who fired the missile and Russian fighter control. It then explains how the American Ambassador to the UN revealed that the Russian pilot had given no warning to KAL 007 and massacred the passengers – then it explained how the Americans falsified the recordings through careful omission of the Russian pilot’s warning shots, efforts to communicate, efforts to warn the KAL pilot etc. – at 12.13.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yo6ixsikDM4
This doesn’t show the Russians for humanitarians – it shows the US government as composed of liars.
Noel- would anyone have expected “direct evidence” of Russian soldiers firing the missile? Could they recognise individual Russian troops firing it from satellite imagery, or without identifying the actual troops or intercepting a direct order that would seem impossible.
I know that Clinton had a bit of a hard time over the Lewinsky matter, but he was getting out of line and needed a warning shot – administered by a nice jewish girl who has since kept her mouth shut about it all.
The rest was pure theatre for the masses – there were no real worries for Clinton or GWB otherwise you would have provided evidence.
Here is a tabloid headline – Putin’s missile – by The Sun, one of the UK’s high-brow newspapers, and of the level which informs and motivates Ross as we see on this thread:
http://zik.ua/ua/news/2014/07/18/brytanska_gazeta_the_sun_vyyshla_z_zagolovkom_pro_tragediyu_boingu__putins_missile_506925
//would anyone have expected “direct evidence” of Russian soldiers firing the missile?//
What they said was that they had no direct evidence that the missile came from Russia, not no direct evidence that Russian soldiers fired it.
Direct evidence could be, for example, pictures of Russian missiles with such capability in the separatists’ hands near the site, reports from their agents among the separatists, tell-tale signs on parts of the plane wreckage that show the missile was of Russian manufacture etc.
The great thing for Allan insisting that the Western press is no difference between the Western press and the Russian press, and that all information is controlled by the government/corporations/Jews is that it means he doesn’t have to hurt his head by reading stuff about the subjects he wants to have strong opinions on.
I’m willing to bet that he hasn’t read a single book about Russia within the last 20 years and probably tells himself that not reading the Moscow correspondents of Western newspapers makes him better informed.
But reading serious material doubtless takes a long time and makes his head hurt.
It’s very significant that in the last few hours the two black boxes have arrived at Farnborough for inspection.
Why have they not gone to Kiev, or Moscow, or the USA?
What this suggests to me is that someone is acting as ‘honest broker’ here, and as Russia is the BIG player in the region it looks like a Putin initiative.
Noel- the rebels have admitted that have the BUK missile system and the experts seem to all agree now that the plane shows signs of missile damage.
Well, there was an American satellite directly overhead and the Russians have requested that the satellite photos be released for collaborative investigation and esatblishment of facts and culpability. For some reason, neither these satellite images nor the images from Schiphol of passengers boarding MH17 are being released.
Meanwhile, the plane-spotters are analysing images of the wreckage of MH17. They are claiming that it is MH370 based on details of the porthole arrangements. Details matter and plane-spotters are obsessives about detail.
Their case is in tatters but the war party need not despair.
The crony Ukrainian firm which put Joe Biden’s son on the board is now paying more lobbyists in Washington.
The loot will flow into more pockets, the lies will continue from the DC regime, from Congress and from lying journalists as they try to achieve direct conflict with Russia.
Can we expect the remains of the aircraft to be reconstructed for an examination in the way of Pan Am 103 and TWA 800 (but not flight 93, which was swallowed by a Pennsylvanian field and disappeared forever – the majority here consider that to be conclusive)? After all, that’s what air crash investigation requires.
//the lies will continue from the DC regime, from Congress and from lying journalists as they try to achieve direct conflict with Russia.//
The US govt doesn’t want conflict with Russia; it would like to keep Russia contained, of course, but certainly doesnt want a war.
Ross and Phantom
Good points, but you are wasting your time. Putin has truth and justice on his side and the wicked alliance of the EU and the Great Satan has set out to start WW3 and has killed 300 air passengers to do so. If Allan, Pete Moore and Bernard and Peter Hitchens say so then it must be true. Why waste time arguing?
Can you believe that Cameron has just said yes I know we’ve got an arms & equipment deal with Russia, but it’s not for military use!!
I swear the guy is the biggest fool & hypocrite we’ve ever had to run this country.
And watching more on KAL 007, it is revealed that 15 days after the Soviets shot down KAL 007 the Americans destroyed all radar records relating to USAF tracking of that mission – at 9.52 – in order to stymie any subsequent inquiry. This is how the US government agencies behave when they are up to no good:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rvrY-rPwbY
One must wonder about why the US makes such effort to initiate conflict between its newly-installed puppet regime in Ukraine and the country to which Ukraine has the closest economic and ethnic links, especially as it really is outside the US’s geographical proximity.
The campaign is having the desired effects on the dupe majority, and not just at ATW:
Now, in order to persuade a general public that another country is an enemy in need of some punishment, that other country must be shown to be bad. Most drug-addled Americans get their opinions from the controlled MSM so there is no reason why the lies can’t work. There is no way that the US satellite data will ever be released.
It was a controlled demolition, just like 7 WTC, the other WTC buildings, and the terminal at Paris airport.
You need 3D glasses and a fifth of Scotch straight up to see the patterns.
The press has gone lighter on Obama than Bush, but there is still plenty of criticism of Obama in the press. As a whole the Press is free in the states. The fact is that it runs about 70-30 that the members of the press just happen to agree with the current Presidents view leading to a less critical view in the majority.
If they didn’t agree with him he would be pillared just as hard as Bush or Reagan. The press in the US is still free. The way it reports or doesn’t report however is still their free choice.
Here is more good stuff Ole Vlad is up to but this of course has nothing to do with the trouble in Ukraine
http://news.yahoo.com/russia-starts-reinforcing-naval-fleet-crimea-141108574.html
It’s not difficult to see why Merkel is not towing the Washington line:
Earlier this month a German intelligence officer was arrested for spying for Moscow, but under “questioning” he admitted to being in the pay of the US. Other ‘moles’ are now being unearthed, and the most senior CIA station chief has been told to leave the country. (All names have been withheld)
Someone, or some group in the US administration is playing a very high-stakes game right now, with Russia being the latest target.
Noel says that the US doesn’t want a war, and that is undoubtedly true, but there are elements working in the State Department who are real keen for it.
No one at any level in the US or NATO wants any military confrontation with Russia.
No one.
The ” cure ” would be a billion times worse than the disease.
For us, for Russia, for Ukraine, and everyone else.
We spy to protect ourselves, just as every nation on earth does. We just have better tech to do it with at the moment.
As for wanting War the US wants war with no one, the state department has never wanted war if anything it has over it’s history done anything to the point of betraying the US to prevent us from having an advantage in war. It was started by a communist for that purpose.
You mistake our reaction to aggression for aggression.
It’s good practice. If Russia thinks that it’s worth their time and money organising disinformation then it might be worth countering the obviously false assertions.
If you read the comment sections of major newspapers and popular web forums it is very obvious that the Kremlin has a crude spamming campaign. You’ll see dozens of separate commentators with stilted English all making whatever the propaganda point of the day is.
For example Pete’s claim that the Americans “admitted they have no evidence” was the meme of the day yesterday and the Putinbots duly spammed the comment threads of the Telegraph, Guardian, Mail etc even after it had been debunked 1000 times. This happens daily. I’m already familiar with all of Allan’s claims about MH17- for example his assertion that the flight was put on an unusual course at the last minute by Ukrainian authorities- before he makes them because they are part of an organised campaign to muddy the waters.
Obviously Pete & Allan aren’t in the pay of the Kremlin, but they get their information from groups that have unhealthy links to the Kremlin- Russia has long supported the paranoid far right that Allan enjoys as well as the isolationist quasi-libertarian movement from whom I believe Pete gets his information.
So spending a few minutes countering the claims seems reasonable enough.
Ross – It was no mere assertion. I put up the links to the route-tracing site which showed the routes taken by MH 17 and the preceding planes from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur. If you had bothered to look, you would have seen. Noel looked: Noel saw: Noel can confirm. Once again, for clarification – the flight path of MH17 was about 150 miles further north of those of the same flight, and this took MH17 directly over the conflict zone.
So what?
Very many flights went over what was an approved air corridor in past weeks.
Are you trying to blame the air traffic controller in some way? What is your point? Os there ever any point other than dark insinuation?
Flight MH17 was following right route, says Malaysian minister
The Malaysians must be in on it too:
This is from last Friday, so the information has been in the public domain for at least 6 days, yet still all over the internet the Putinbots and their friends continue to assert otherwise.
Things happen in three’s
Here we go again.
The Allans of this world are sure that Dick Cheney did it, and will continue to manufacture Truther theory to prove the tale.
Remind me never to take a flight from Boomboom Fukyu to Algeria.
Let me clarify what Allan said.
Allan at the time linked to a flight-tracker site. It’s an excellent site that allows the user to track any commercial flight in the air at the time or the recent past, based on data on position and course sent automatically by the plane.
The link was to two specific flights – one was MH17 and the other was another flight of the same intended route from a day or two previously.
One conspicuous difference was:
while the earlier flight that reached its destination flew, after moving a bit around A’dam, in a straight course of around 120 degrees in a south-easterly direction more or less all the way to Kuala Lumpur.
The MH17 flight at first followed the same path as the former, but then, over central Poland, it changed course from around 120 to about 80 degrees, i.e. it turned towards the north east and continued on this new course for a short time before turning back to the initial SE course. This short change meant the new flight path was running parallel and some distance to the north of what it would have been had the plane not made the adjustment. Whereas the initial course, and that of the plane from the previous day, would have brought MH17, in the critical area, over the NE tip of the Sea of Azov, well away from the conflict zone, the new course made it cross Ukr/Russian frontier further to the north, which is where the firing was going on.
I am not saying there was some sinister reason for the change of course over Poland or that it was very unusual; I don’t know enough about air traffic to judge the various reasons planes change course (although I believe weather was stable in that part of Europe at the time). I am only saying the sudden change of course was in noticeable contrast to the consistent SE courses of previous planes and that without this change the plane would almost certainly not have been shot down.
Allan put up another link a few days later, which again showed the same flight path, with the same course change, of MH17, but this time the other reference course of a similar flight was at UKR/Russ at the same point as MH17 was when it was shot down, and the route was then corrected northward somewhere over New Delhi (although it didn’t land at Delhi, they were all direct flights)
I’m sure the links are still there and can be checked.
Allan, on this site has never stated Dick Cheney did anything, but was involved in 9/11.
Even Dick Cheney is not that much of a bastard to get involved in the deaths of yet more innocents.
Phantom
I did reply to your request for routes, etc: on the journey, spent ages typing it all out, with recommendations on hotels and things to look out for, and wot-not.
I then pressed the wrong key, lost the lot .. and thought, bugger it 😉
//I am not saying there was some sinister reason//
I am also not saying the flight paths shown on the site had not been tampered with; the site itself, however, is very much a respectable technical site for flight buffs.
Ross- Nicely stated.
Apparently the separatists have just confirmed that they shot down the airliner. Probably knew there was no point denying it further after the black box was handed over yesterday.
If that is true, then it is recommended that the Putin groupies and Truthers here go into private session in order to get their stories straight.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/23/mh17-ukraine-separatists-buk-missile-system
Noel
Do you have a link?
This shows the sep admitting that they had BUKs but not that they shot the plane down
Phantom, apparently one of the separatists spilt the beans in an interview in the Italian daily Corriere della Sera yesterday. It’s only an interview but it sounds credible enough.
Harri so how was Dick Cheney involved in 9/11?
come on take a big hit on that pipe and spin us your tale of drug induced delusion.
Phantom you know if the interview that Noel links to is verified the Putin groupies will come up with some tale that the CIA or the Mossad hijacked the separatists command structure and gave them false orders so the US can move in and hijack the pipeline.
Troll
It is totaly pointless trying to discuss or debate any subject with you.
My time on ATW, has like many others, learned that lesson
Troll, not a hard task that is for sure, but you are a dupe of the highest order I have ever come across, .. and you have been duped.
It must be that time of day.
When Trolls medication is at it’s optimum performance scale.
Here it is, as of 39.55
Now Troll – you asked the question and I’m providing the answer. Will you confirm that you have looked at the answer given that you asked the question presumably to get the answer?
Not possible.
He is a dupe.
Allan where were you that day?
Yes I am unreasonable when it comes to faery tales relayed by kooks.
In your time on ATW you have shown yourself to be a kook Harri. Yes I am obnoxious and rude, but I’m not the one who has been duped. I don’t believe you’ve been duped either. I just think that you have no connection with reality. Which
which you prove over and over with you 9/11 truther dedication
Hey Allan did you see the disclaimer on the very first frame of the film you link to?
in other words it’s a Faery Tale pieced together for the insane. A category that both you and Harri fall into.
Ross –
It was the news of the day yesterday, after a week of explicit accusations against Putin, on the back of which Putin and Russia were demonised. What would the Putinbots comment on if it wasn’t in the news?
Yes, the Russian spammers obviously exist (though some are probably just Russians who read the Western news sites). Their English often gives them away, but at least they come out only when the news concerns Moscow.
More insidious and ever-present are home-grown government shills. We usually can’t fish them out because (as with Phantom) their English is native. They work for government departments, media outfits and intelligence agencies and they’re always there.
If you’re going to accuse Russians of spamming comment sections then you have to be honest and concede that State trolls do the same, always.
Is one a ” state troll ” if they don’t believe that Dick Cheney in his flying saucer is personally responsible for every bad thing that has happened in the past 15 years, including Harri’s parking ticket from last Tuesday?
Noel Cunningham –
Which he later denied, saying that he has a recording of the interview with AP and that he’ll put it out if they don’t retract. It doesn’t matter, we know that the seperatists took a coup-government facility in June and captured some BUK batteries then.
Phantom –
You’re an adult. Let’s debate honestly and on that level, shall we?
Phantom, on July 24th, 2014 at 7:08 PM Said:
Is one a ” state troll ” if they don’t believe that Dick Cheney in his flying saucer is personally responsible for every bad thing that has happened in the past 15 years, including Harri’s parking ticket from last Tuesday?
No strawman argument there then 🙂
Raw nerve .. direct hit 😉
Cheney and his perhaps junior partner GW Bush made many errors – and GWB should never have been considered for any executive position – but neither are the boogey men that the Truthers among us think they are.
Don’t forget the other partner in crime, Rumsfeld.
A good one about Cheney
“Cheney is a good salesman, he sells fear”
Rumsfeld is a good man who made some errors.
Harri
Have you arrived at the destination?
Only the first one 😉
I did reply to your ‘what route did you take’
I spent some considerable amount of time, giving routes, roads, EU toll roads prices ;-(
Hotels, and my favourite German town ‘Wurzburg’
Then hit the wrong button, deleted the lot and thought .. oh bugger it.
He also made a fortune spreading the fear about ‘Bird-flu’
I wonder why.
I think most already know.
Have some good German beer and wurst for me
Phantom, on July 24th, 2014 at 8:38 PM Said:
Have some good German beer and wurst for me
Cheers.
//my favourite German town ‘Wurzburg’//
It’s a fine town; I’ve only been there in summer and I remember the wonderful beer and, as it’s a university town, the thousands of young nubile women in their pretty dresses. They seem to come out with the sun.
Noel
You must have walked over the bridge of saints then.
Did you visit the castle, or the Chinese moored just down from the bridge? wonderful service and food.
Troll – you opened the first frame which is a nice baby-step but did you look at the evidence which I presented in response to your question? I assumed that your question was put with the intention of getting an answer. You asked:
and there is the answer, at 39.55 onwards
As for the Russian seperatists possibly shooting down the airline, if Putin takes the rap for it on the basis that (if) Russia provided the weapons (these weapons have serial numbers and are traceable to the owner) then can that be confirmed as a principle in international law?
First off the question this time was not put to you. Second you believe in a faery tale world where the US Government is the Great Satan you hate Jews. You are an Islamic Terrorist in your head.
I see you as no different than any Nazi or Islamist, and those on this site that agree with you are the same.
You support Terror, you hate the US, and you hate Jews. Anyone in the world that is against the British Government, The American Government, and the Israeli Government you root for, and defend.
As far as I am concerned you are the enemy.
This site over the past 4 years has become infested with those that that hate the West love Communists and terrorists. You’ll can rail against me all you want. I will not subscribe to your evil thinking and the blackness that fills your hearts and minds.
None of you are crazy, or stupid you are willingly complicit and eagerly support the enemies of humanity.
OK – why not put the question to me? I’ll answer it.
Allan
You are trying to get cutesy pie, but no cigar.
Russia has first seized the territory of a neighbor that had done it no harm, and it has fomented trouble in that other country, and has given exceptionally dangerous weapons to untrained or barely trained Ukrainian saboteurs and traitors, with disastrous results.
I am not interested in asking you Allan, I am not interested in ANYTHING you have to say.
You support Terror, you hate the US, and you hate Jews. Anyone in the world that is against the British Government, The American Government, and the Israeli Government you root for, and defend. You live in a fantasy world that accepts no version but your own, and you are a person filled with hate.
so no I wouldn’t ask you the time of day.
The people of a territory which had formerly been part of Russia seceded and re-joined Russia by their own expression – and I await the return of Texas to Mexico.
As for the AA-missile systems, this report in Deutsche Wirtschafts Nachrichten states that the US is refusing to release its satellite data because the images show a Ukrainian battery as responsible for the shoot-down:
http://deutsche-wirtschafts-nachrichten.de/2014/07/22/abschuss-mh17-usa-zoegern-mit-veroeffentlichung-von-satelliten-bildern/
So why are the satellite images not being released the Russians request? The US-military is not denying that its satellite was overhead but my posts on KAL 007 give little cause that a mendacious entity will allow any damning information to be released.
Harri – if you’re around, why don’t you review the response and evidence which I gave to troll and, if you find it persuasive, you give it to him as your answer?
Revealing satellite images also reveals how capable the satellite imaging technology is.
That’s why countries are very reluctant to share such things with those who are not their friends. And Putin is not our friend. He does not need to find out how good our satellites are.
Harri
You support anyone in the world that is against the British Government, The American Government, and the Israeli Government you root for, and defend them. You live in a fantasy world that accepts no version but your own. In your version everything I support is evil.
So my disgust applies to you also if that wasn’t clear from my earlier responses, and even though you are not as sick as Allan you too have the mindset of the enemy. Your opinions are treated from that perspective, as far as I am concerned.
Pointless Allan
His mind is totaly FUBAR.
Phantom – very weak response. US military Inc is quite prepared to release pictures when it suits as we see below:
http://graphics.wsj.com/russian-forces-near-ukraine/
Now why not release the images of the Ukrainian AA-battery which non-corporate researchers believe was responsible for the shoot-down?
yeah my mind is screwed up because I don’t believe nut cases who think Dick Cheney was involved in arranging the deaths of 3000 Americans on 9/11.
Do yourselves a favor and check into Bethlem Royal
That pretty much nails it.
Harri
To you the American Government is the enemy, you live in a fantasy world. There is not an iota of difference between you and Allan. Your both delusional.
ATW is a Pro British, Pro American, and Pro Israeli site. It is not a sanctuary for the Lunacy of trutherism, or the support of terrorists in Gaza and the IRA/SF. You can accuse me of anything you want those facts will not change, and will out last all of you.
The evidence which I posted at 1.03am confirms that Cheney was involved in 9/11 so why don’t you look at it? After all, you keep asking the questions and mocking those who know of Cheney’s involvement so there is the evidence presented on a plate for you.
No little youtubes. They may pass as evidence in the Truther community, but not in real life.
Please say, concisely, in your own words, why you think he was involved in it.
Phantom – the evidence isn’t mine: it’s Norman Mineta’s testimony. You watch the part as requested, and then we can discuss it.