ON LIARS AND RACISTS…HomeSarah PalinATW by David Vance July 5, 2013 195 1 min 9 yrs Tweet This is well worth a listen; Click to rate this post![Total: 0 Average: 0] ATW Post navigation Previous postNext post 195 thoughts on “ON LIARS AND RACISTS…” Interesting video, but I wish that people would stop using this ‘left wing’ ‘right wing’ stuff which is so out of date, and enables certain thoroughly toxic organisations to displace criticism elsewhere. There are only three words we need: Facism: State control of the individual Socialism: State control of commerce Communism: State control of both The only way in which facists differ from each other is by who they define as the enemy of the state and therefore exterminate (or re-educate if they are in a good mood and it is physically possible). Depending on the obsessions of the dictatorship (or the aspirations of the would-be dictators), this might be landed gentry, rich people, clever people, Christian people, Jewish people, black people (plus any people who disagree with the ideology). The list is endless, and delving into history gives us plenty more examples. Both Pat Condell and the EDL are Zionist tools, and they are both very open about it. Although both are opposed to mass immigration, especially of adherents of islam, neither mentions who brought muslims into the UK and why. Condell says that our values are being “turned inside out”, but by whom? The controlling group of ‘Unite Against Fascism’ is the Socialist Workers’ Party which is controlled by the very same group which controls the EDL – controlling both sides in the dialectical sense and done very often previously. Condell mentions an “aggressive supremacist religion that despises everything we stand for”, so here’s a clue as to what that religion would be. Note that many or even most of its nominal adherents oppose what is happening to the host countries: http://forward.com/articles/179296/jews-unite-behind-push-for-immigration-reform/?p=all#ixzz2XS7dODrL Jewish groups across the country are acting together in a way characteristic of the community on few issues besides Israel. Leading an active push for the bill, which will offer a path to citizenship for some of the nation’s 11 million undocumented aliens, include the Hebrew Immigrant Aid Society, the American Jewish Committee, the Anti-Defamation League, the Jewish Council for Public Affairs, Bend the Arc and the National Council of Jewish Women. And a Jewish establishment ever mindful of its need to operate through alliances and coalitions to advance its own interests is not blind to the implications of the issue in a country whose demography is shifting rapidly. “It’s the ethical thing to do,” said HIAS president and CEO Mark Hetfield, of the community’s immigration reform activism. But he quickly added, “It’s in our strategic interest.” good god Allan is there anything the jews aren’t behind? I always enjoy the mans videos. I’m surprised if half the people that comment on here are a sampling of the British and NI general attitude that he hasn’t already been stoned to death. MJR your definitions are right on the money. I stubbed my toe this morning, I wonder why the Jews made me do that. //I wonder why the Jews made me do that.// “And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters’ clay, and part of iron, they shall be divided” Book of Daniel Pat makes some excellent points. 100% agree. Allan The NHS offers psychological services, as does BUPA. I recommend that you use them. Slightly off topic, but I do wonder if Pat Condell is related to Melanie Phillips? http://www.1stethical.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/MelaniePhilips_1444144c.jpg Anyway here’s the deal. As Pat says at 1:20 “If the Muslims are offended violence is never far away” That is why the EDL is constantly marginalised and vilified. The authorities are now terrified of what might happen if our Muslim communities were to become really upset at some negative comment or portrayal of Islam. Consider: devout Muslims regard women as second class citizens, tell them what they can and can’t do and how they may dress. Where is the feminist outrage, the demos, the angry protests? Muslims believe that Homosexuals should be stoned, attacked, intimidated. Where is the protests from Stonewall and other groups? They certainly find their voices when attacking the Church of England, but Islam? never a squeak. Why? Then there are the trendy people. The educated intellectuals who don their scarves or keffiyas and demonstrate against this aspect of western oppression or that aspect of Christian doctrine, or the rights of the Palestinians. But globally Islam does not believe in man made laws, does not believe that “all cultures and religions are of equal value” and any Jews or Christians living in Muslim countries are not regarded as equal citizens.. Where are the idealistic and trendy protestors demanding of Islam the same things they demand from others? Not there. So we see an amazing degree of hypocrisy fuelled by fear going on in our own country. The very country that welcomed all kinds of people in only to find that some had no intention of integrating or respecting our way of life. Now before some people start squawking, I know that most Muslims are decent people, but just cast your minds back to what happened with Salman Rushdies “The Satanic Verses” Did that turn out to be a triumph for Western post Christian free speech; or a triumph for bigotry and the power of the threat of violence? This guy is a Truth Teller, in a world with too few of them. I think that someone here may be part of this Unite organization. I invite him to speak to the points made bt Mr Condell. Noel- ha ha. I am impressed by your Bible/ Torah knowledge! I bought Satanic Verses to make a statement. But found it utterly unreadable. Here’s some other Pat Videos you should like; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7f01IBDoZGg ‘Hypocrisy fuelled by fear’. The fear of our politcians of any serious ‘social unrest’, hence the arrest of EDL marchers for ‘just being there’, and the tolerance of even the most violent Islamic hate speech and activity when it occurs, and the media’s minimal mention of it. Last week, one MoD General, stated his fear, that if the Syrian insurgents were not supported enough, by NATO countries, to achieve victory over Assad, they would eventually turn towards Europe as a form of vengeance, and would wreak havoc in our capital cities. At the time, on reading that item I thought it was just more propaganda by Hague to justify spending even more on arms. It seems there is more to it than meets the eye, and that the threat of a serious bombing spree is being taken very seriously. Which in turn strengthens Condell’s theory of ‘hypocrisy spurred by cowardice’. Pat Condell describes both the EDL and the SWP/UAF perfectly. He also makes the correct observation that the EDL is despised by the media because it is a working class movement. We recently had incontrovertible proof of just perverted the ruling elite and police have become. An EDL organiser was assaulted right in front of the police (you might want to turn down the volume). It happened literally within a couple of feet of the police. It was the organiser and Tommy Robinson who were arrested. The man who attacked the EDL had nothing done to him. This is Third World policing. This is plain corruption. It’s what we’re up against. As with the EU, our enemies aren’t abroad, they’re right here among us. “Never mind that their demonstrations are always peacful” “Whenever violence does occur it’s always instigated by a mob of middle – class thugs ironically called Unite Against Fascism” Indeed Pat. One just needs to look at the record of Tommy Robinson / Stephen Yaxley Lennox to see the calibre of people the EDL attract. This is an elongated MOPEfest. Pat Condell very occasionally makes relevant points but mostly he talks shite. This is one of Condell’s best. Millions have read his posts, and I think MOST people know the truth by now. Still, it’s good that he still bangs away at it; people have short memories. Paul McMahon – How do you know that was the EDL? In the last few years we have far more evidence for police agitation and violence than for the EDL. Given that the description in your link describes the EDL as fascist, it’s both wrong and politically motivated. This is very unreliable. In my link above you can see the EDL attacked with the police there, resulting in peaceful EDL members being arrested while the attacker gets away with it. How do you know that was the EDL? In the last few years we have far more evidence for police agitation and violence than for the EDL. Given that the description in your link describes the EDL as fascist, it’s both wrong and politically motivated. This is very unreliable Nice one Pete, the cops are behind all the violence. Is that the same case with the UAF violence alleged by Condell? God’s teeth catch a grip man. I suppose that Tommy Robinson / Stephen Yaxley Lennox’s police record for violence, domestic abuse and cocaine posession is also a plod fit up? Paul McMahon – Where demonstrations and marches are concerned, say with education policies or G8 conferences, the police are proven to be behind some of the violence. The evidence for police violence and agitation is vastly greater than that for the EDL. I’m afraid the description on your link is bullshit and makes it suspect. The EDL is not a fascist organisation. Anyone who says so is either a propagandist or a liar. Either way, they are untrustworthy. To see how the police behaves in the company of the EDL just go and look at the link I made. I’m afraid the description on your link is bullshit and makes it suspect Yeah, okay, they didn’t attack a restaurant. I also notice you didn’t bother commenting on Robinson / Yaxley Lennox’s plod record for violence, domestic abuse & drug posession. Is that ‘suspect’ also? Read the title and thought David was finally going to take on Allan. ” I bought Satanic Verses to make a statement. But found it utterly unreadable.” Phantom, Oh, I don’t think anyone actually thought it was any good, 😉 and neither did anyone want it to be an attack on Islam. Just the fact that someone could be free to write about Islam was enough.. But the point was that we caved in. In our own country, supposedly free and secure, the authorities caved in. It was another Galileo Galilei moment.. Paul McMahon – “I also notice you didn’t bother commenting on Robinson / Yaxley Lennox’s plod record for violence, domestic abuse & drug posession.” We went round that mulberry bush last week. Now are you going to comment on EDL members being arrested after being attacked right in front of the police? Now are you going to comment on EDL members being arrested after being attacked right in front of the police? If the video is correct it was blatantly unfair. Now that I’ve commented on your vid perhaps you’d answer the question that if the leader of an organisation is capable of doing this; http://www.bedfordshire-news.co.uk/News/EDL-chief-Lennon-convicted-of-rally-attack-30092011.htm Is it reasonable that, in tandem with the ‘mulberry bush’ mentioned previously that the organisation is susceptible to violence? Paul McMahon – You haven’t commented on the fact of EDL members being arrested for no reason after being attacked. That’s just a throwaway remark of yours. But I’ll answer you. No, it does not follow that if the EDL leader did attack someone then the organisation is susceptible to violence. It doesn’t follow in any way. Even if he’s guilty, that makes him vastly less prone to violence than the leaders of, say, the GOP, the Dems and the Tory Party. I notice that Robinson pleaded not guilty, explaining that it was he was who confronted by the other man. You might say: “A likely tale.” Well here, let me quote you someone with a legal background: “One of the first things I realised is that law doesn’t always, (seldom?), equate to justice.” Do you agree? I think he’s right, and I wouldn’t be at all surprised if Robinson is not guilty. Now in the video I linked to you can actually see violence against EDL leaders, you can see them attacked, you can see the police do nothing and then arrest the EDL members who were attacked. There’s no need for speculation or any dismissive comments. You can see that not only does the law not often equate to justice, but that the police is now proven to be corrupt and untrustworthy when dealing with the EDL. A few points Pete. You haven’t commented on the fact of EDL members being arrested for no reason after being attacked. If the video is correct it was blatantly unfair What else would you like me to say? No, it does not follow that if the EDL leader did attack someone then the organisation is susceptible to violence. It doesn’t follow in any way. Even if he’s guilty, that makes him vastly less prone to violence than the leaders of, say, the GOP, the Dems and the Tory Party Paul McMahon : What do you think? Pete Moore: Yeah, but look at this. I wouldn’t be at all surprised if Robinson is not guilty Prepare to be surprised. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxs1jxQ5WnI Read the title and thought David was finally going to take on Allan. I’ll admit to being openly ‘racist’ as I consider that every people should have their own country in their own lands with primacy in numbers and rights in their own country though extending courtesies to temporary visitors. This means that Britons should have eternal predominance in these islands, Germans in Germany, blacks in Africa, orientals in China, Korea, Japan etc. without there ever being demographic challenge to the indigenous people. As for being a liar, I challenge anybody to show that I lie. When one is a ‘holocaust denier’, what is there to lie about? Let’s look further at my first post given that nobody could actually find any fault with it, but I’ll reinforce its message nonetheless. I wrote that the EDL is effectively a magnet for zionist stooges. Here is the photographic evidence: http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=edl+israeli+flag&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=mfTWUczAGsuW0QWcxoHIDg&sqi=2&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1331&bih=696 So there it is, and it is a fact that Condell is a zionist mouthpiece. The dialectic becomes clearer to those who can be bothered to think for themselves: both sides of a ‘dispute’ controlled by the very people who engineered the dispute. Paul McMahon – I’d rather you just say if you can’t be bothered to watch the video. If, say, an Orange Order man threw punches at a shinner, right in front of the police, only for the police to arrest the shinner, you’d say alot more than “well if true that’s rather unfair”. Wouldn’t you? Tommy Robinson admits to headbutting Alan McKee. So, not only is he a violent thug but in pleading not guilty he’s a liar too. Pete, I’ve commented negatively on your vid. I’ll ask the question again: What would you like me to say? Yes, Robinson admitted that, but he says that it was he who was confronted first. I don’t think you even watched the video. I don’t think you even watched the video Think what you like I’ll hardly change your opinion. Robinson admitted that At least you accept that. So, woulld you then agree he’s a liar as well as being prone to violence? Forget about arguing over Tommy Robinson. This is is a side issue. The real issue is WHY the EDL came into being and why it hasn’t attracted the same approbation as the loathsome BNP. This country IS under attack. Not by all the Muslim population but by a determined few who (I think) are counting on the devotion, loyalty and sense of identity of our Muslim communities to rally to the flag given sufficient provocation -real or manufactured. From global observation some expressions of Islam (and I am not talking about individuals, do not accept “equal billing” with other faiths. Look at Africa and the persecution of Christians and other faiths. Look at what is happening in Europe as a whole, even America. Devout, literal or extremist Islamists however you want to describe them, are quite ready to chop/cut or saw the heads off people who refuse to bow the knee. They know the horror and fear this produces in our own people, and there are examples of this savagery taking place all around the ME Muslim world. So the EDL are expressing their concerns about the impact of Islam on our nation and where it is all going. Certainly there are troublemakers and infiltrators amongst them. But the point is that whilst the British generally ignore extremist groups, the EDL has managed to avoid outright conflict. They simply demonstrate by their presence that they are not going to lie down and watch as these extremists abuse our freedoms and try to replace them with Shari’a. Pat looked at the EDL website and it didn’t say anything about fascism or racism. Well that’s that one settled then. Where’ve you been Petr? Crazily busy at work, Agie. Seems it will be like this for a while too! Forget about arguing over Tommy Robinson Why? Would you follow a violent football hooligan? ” Crazily busy at work, Agie. Seems it will be like this for a while too!” If that means you won’t be able to do any of your daft demos that’s a good thing. Paul McMahon – I have no idea if he is, but I agree with the man who on another thread said that the law doesn’t always equate to justice, but who here is strangely coy. Pleading not guilty and then admitting to it doesn’t make him a liar? Not if it’s in self defence. Did you watch the video? He said the guy was being verbal there is no mention of self defence. That makes him a liar. law doesn’t always equate to justice And neither it does but even a broken clock is correct twice a day. Troll posted: good god Allan is there anything the jews aren’t behind? Well said. Peter – did you actually read my post of 10.07am and the rather incriminating link? The link shows beyond all doubt the scale of mendacity and destructive power of organised jewry. Even more interesting are the comments from jews who are not part of organised jewry. organised jewry Allan I have a problem with that term. It implies a conspiracy, and as you will know from my comments here over the years, I am deeply sceptical about conspiracies in general, never mind the Nazi overtones of this one. Well Peter, what else would you call this other than ‘organised’? It certainly isn’t disorganised and when acting in unison in the interests of ” a Jewish establishment ever mindful of its need to operate through alliances and coalitions to advance its own interests” would certainly fall within a reasonable definition of ‘conspiracy’ – with due emphasis on “its own (jewish and Israeli) interests” and nobody else’s: http://forward.com/articles/179296/jews-unite-behind-push-for-immigration-reform/?p=all#ixzz2XS7dODrL Jewish groups across the country are acting together in a way characteristic of the community on few issues besides Israel. Leading an active push for the bill, which will offer a path to citizenship for some of the nation’s 11 million undocumented aliens, include the Hebrew Immigrant Aid Society, the American Jewish Committee, the Anti-Defamation League, the Jewish Council for Public Affairs, Bend the Arc and the National Council of Jewish Women. And a Jewish establishment ever mindful of its need to operate through alliances and coalitions to advance its own interests is not blind to the implications of the issue in a country whose demography is shifting rapidly. “It’s the ethical thing to do,” said HIAS president and CEO Mark Hetfield, of the community’s immigration reform activism. But he quickly added, “It’s in our strategic interest.” American Jews are cashed up. They should buy these poor immigrants plane tickets to Israel. Pete – that’s not going to happen. Even though American jews are by some distance the wealthiest self-declared group in the US, Israel is territory protected from the kind of mass immigration (I’d call 11 million ‘colonisation’) which organised jewry advocates for the US and every other (currently) white-majority country. Now that is not in doubt – agreed, Agit? “Now that is not in doubt – agreed, Agit?” Don’t drag me into this Allan. I said the other day that IF it was true re the 11,000,000 it would be reprehensible, but so far I haven’t seen anything from a respectable source that would back up your assertion that a Jewish group is behind it. Logically though, it would not be in the interests of either Israel or American Jewry to further weaken America. What would be the point? America supports Israel militarily, the Jewish community supports Israel, and Jews are free to prosper in America. So where’s the logic? If that means you won’t be able to do any of your daft demos that’s a good thing. You cheeky pup you! 😉 I said the other day that IF it was true re the 11,000,000 it would be reprehensible, but so far I haven’t seen anything from a respectable source that would back up your assertion that a Jewish group is behind it. Agit – if you had bothered to click on the link to the report which confirms that organised jewry is backing 11,000,000 illegal immigrants being allowed to colonise the US, you would see that the link is to a jewish website called The Jewish Daily Forward. Here is its ‘mission statement’: The Forward welcomes reader comments in order to promote thoughtful discussion on issues of importance to the Jewish community. Read more: http://forward.com/articles/179296/jews-unite-behind-push-for-immigration-reform/?p=all#ixzz2YOUmMr5D See Agit, this is jews talking to jews about things which matter to jews so it is highly unlikely that they would be lying to each other. Now, is this sufficent for you to accept that organised jewry in the US is pushing for immigration policies which they would reject absolutely for Israel? Hey Allan The Catholic Church and all the liberal Protestant groups are all for ” immigration ” also Put that in your crack pipe and smoke it also. The Catholic Church and all the liberal Protestant groups are all for ” immigration ” also What are their opinions on immigration into Israel? You see Phantom, the point is that organised jewry has one set of policies for the US and a completely different set of policies for Israel. If allowing millions of illegals in the US to become legal is “the ethical thing to do”, why is it not equally ethical to allow tens of thousands of African illegals in Israel to remain there? The only ethical position is to ship all ofbthem home. Though Mexicans do have long ties to the US ( much of which was once part of Mexico. ) Africans have no moral legal or historical case to move to Israel or anywhere else. Phantom – why does organised jewry have one position on immigration into the US and another on immigration into Israel? And how is the legalisation of 11 million illegals in the “strategic interest” of organised jewry? See my post of 11.08pm 5th July. Allan — You are one sick puppy. organised jewry Allan’s found a new buzz phrase! Ross – as I wrote to Peter at 11.08pm 5th July, what else would you call it? The report by a jewish source cites the Hebrew Immigrant Aid Society, the American Jewish Committee, the Anti-Defamation League, the Jewish Council for Public Affairs, Bend the Arc and the National Council of Jewish Women as being supporters of legailsing 11 million illegal immigranats which, to me, is both organised and representative of American jewry. The point is that this “ethical thing to do” is no longer ethical when it comes to Israel which means gross hypocrisy at best. If I’m wrong and you can show me where I’m wrong, please do so. The Catholic Church and all the liberal Protestant groups are all for ” immigration ” also Yes but it’s a cabal of international Jews that are behind the Christian religion. ” Organized jewry “. Allan, you do have the whiff of the gestapo about you. I image that you never tell your coworkers these things that fill your head. And that you have others to whom you speak even more, ahem, bluntly. I image that you never tell your coworkers these things that fill your head Or his employers! Phantom – the question put to Ross is quite straight-forward and so too is the background. When groups such as Hebrew Immigrant Aid Society, the American Jewish Committee, the Anti-Defamation League, the Jewish Council for Public Affairs, Bend the Arc and the National Council of Jewish Women are acting in unison, I would say that they are both organised and jewish thus rendering the term ‘orgainsed jewry’ entirely appropriate – but if you prefer another equally apt term them I’ll go with a reasonable suggestion. The point is that this “ethical thing to do” (legalising millions of illegal immigrants IN THE USA) is no longer ethical when it comes to Israel which means gross hypocrisy at best. If I’m wrong and you can show me where I’m wrong, please do so. ” See Agit, this is jews talking to jews about things which matter to jews so it is highly unlikely that they would be lying to each other. Now, is this sufficent for you to accept that organised jewry in the US is pushing for immigration policies which they would reject absolutely for Israel?” The Jewish people have regarded themselves as called to be separate for millenia. That is part of their covenant with God, and even though Jews are becoming increasingly secular there is a deep seated sense of separateness. Read Ezra chapter 9… ” After these things had been done, the leaders came to me and said, “The people of Israel, including the priests and the Levites, have not kept themselves separate from the neighboring peoples with their detestable practices, like those of the Canaanites, Hittites, Perizzites, Jebusites, Ammonites, Moabites, Egyptians and Amorites. 2 They have taken some of their daughters as wives for themselves and their sons, and have mingled the holy race with the peoples around them. And the leaders and officials have led the way in this unfaithfulness.” (Ezra was leader of the Jews allowed to return from Babylon by Artaxerxes to rebuild their land and culture.) ” See Agit, this is jews talking to jews about things which matter to jews so it is highly unlikely that they would be lying to each other. Now, is this sufficent for you to accept that organised jewry in the US is pushing for immigration policies which they would reject absolutely for Israel?” The Jewish people have regarded themselves as called to be separate for millenia. That is part of their covenant with God, and even though Jews are becoming increasingly secular there is a deep seated sense of separateness. Read Ezra chapter 9… ” After these things had been done, the leaders came to me and said, “The people of Israel, including the priests and the Levites, have not kept themselves separate from the neighboring peoples with their detestable practices, like those of the Canaanites, Hittites, Perizzites, Jebusites, Ammonites, Moabites, Egyptians and Amorites. 2 They have taken some of their daughters as wives for themselves and their sons, and have mingled the holy race with the peoples around them. And the leaders and officials have led the way in this unfaithfulness.” (Ezra was leader of the Jews allowed to return from Babylon by Artaxerxes to rebuild their land and culture.) The ethical thing to do is to throw all illegals out. The ethical thing is not always the easiest thing. Phantom, Agreed. But imo the jewish people are a special case as their history shows. On a smaller scale though even family life shows how any new addition disturbs the equilibrium of the group relationships. But when you start introducing millions of people into a country even as big as the USA it WILL effect things. A country is not simply a hotch potch of individuals scratching around on the same piece of turf trying to make a living. There has to be rules, there has to be a sense of identity and belonging. That is what culture does. It defines a people and binds them together. It is this crazy liberal warm and fluffy notion of all inclusive lovingness “We are all equal, we are all one and everything and everyone is important and meaningful,” that actually ends up destroying countries. So sometimes you have no alternative than to be tough. Agit8ed – Isn’t the “liberal” notion you offer and dismiss the Christian notion you so often proclaim. I am not for unregulated immigration or open borders as I don’t think they serve anyone’s best interests. No one ever says that they’re for ” unregulated ” immigration But the question is how many- what is the number? And do you reward illegal entry by a path to citizenship that those who didn’t cross illegally don’t get? And do the legalized illegals get to bring the rest of their families into the US, a further reward and a further strain on social services? To reunite families, how kind. ” Agit8ed – Isn’t the “liberal” notion you offer and dismiss the Christian notion you so often proclaim.” Does not compute/make sense. Phantom – Well actually some people are for no borders, but that is an idealism that would get laughed out of Haight-Ashbury. Numbers/quotas can be set, and they can be set per country. I am not sure that offering citizenship is the answer, but perhaps some kind of legal status is. I constantly read here on ATW how complete families are important, so surely some recognition of reuniting families under certain circumstances is appropriate. Agit8ed – read your quoted language and advise how that isn’t a Christian message – that we are all equal and important. I think you mean that my ” We are all equal, we are all one and everything and everyone is important and meaningful,” is a part of my Christian faith, so why am I describing it as crazy and liberal? Why can’t any of these families be ” reunited ” down Mexico way? These guys aren’t for reuniting them in some cases they are for ” reuniting ” them in 100% of the cases of families that want them. So whatever the number is of current illegals, now legalized like you’n’me, the total number of ” immigrants ” would be much larger. Agit8ed – In short. Phantom- Well those who think that a blanket solution makes sense are not thinking it through. And again, I haven’t suggested they be granted full citizenship but rather a legal status. It isn’t the same thing. ” Why can’t any of these families be ” reunited ” down Mexico way?” As you said earlier Phantom, where does it stop? Let this one in and you end up with the extended family and their neighbours.. Absolutely no disrespect to Puerto Ricans but this illustrates it so well.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qy6wo2wpT2k Leonard Bernstein was a genius – and probably responsible for the Puerto Ricans coming to America.. Oy Veh! Understood. But the Democrats in the Senate and House are absolutely not looking at it the same way as you. There has been a framing of the debate so that it has become an ” immigration ” debate as in ” are you in favor of immigration or not? ” The issue isn’t that at all. The US has always had immigration, and will continue to have it. You nearly never hear the term ” illegal alien ” anymore as it has been spun to mean a racist term of some kind by the Geraldo Riveras and NY Times’ of this country. Which it is not, any more than ” illegal immigration ” is a racist term. Mahons, there is absolutely no contradiction. Christianity is not about being soft and fuzzy. That’s your job. All Puerto Ricans have been US citizens since 1917. When there was a US Military draft, Puerto Ricans were subject to it also. Agit8ed – There is nothing soft or fuzzy about the ideal that everyone is equal and should be treated so, people have died for that ideal. And as Phantom noted Puerto Ricans have US Citizenship. “yhere is nothing soft or fuzzy about the ideal that everyone is equal and should be treated so,” That is not what we are talking about though, is it? We’re now talking about amnesties for immigrants. Specifically round about 11,000,000 and the implications of that. A Christian has a responsibility to play an active part in his or her society. Pay taxes Vote Be a good and helpful citizen Influence society for the good by preaching the Gospel and living the Gospel. On matters of national defence, security and overseas aid be prepared to defend your society, be aware of those who would seek to undermine your society, offer practical help and assistance to those affected by drought, floods, famine and other natural disasters and don’t try to impose your political and cultural or religious values on others unless invited or given permission to do so by the host nation. Christianity does not believe all religions and cultures are of equal value. Christianity does not believe in inviting all the world’s poor and deprived to come and live among you. Christianity does not believe in paying people benefits so that they can sit around in idleness. Christianity does not believe in relative values. In the parable of the Good Samaritan the Samaritan asked and paid for the innkeeper to look after the man. He didn’t take him home with him. If Christianity means accepting anything and everything, it isn’t Christianity. It’s warm and fuzzy liberalism. Using Puerto Rico as an example is probably not the best idea you’ve had Mr A8. Lenny B had nothing to do with the increase in Puerto Ricans’ migration (not immigration) to the states during the 40s and 50s. And while the music and dancing is grand, the West Side Story story is fraught with ill-conceived stereotypes and inaccuracies. The play promotes the concept that Puerto Ricans are thugs in much the same way that mafia movies long portrayed Italians as thugs. Unfortunately, there haven’t been many other examples of literature or art performance that portray Puerto Ricans in a positive light…though recently we had “In The Heights” on Broadway, which is a more accurate portrayal of Puerto Rican life in NYC. BUT Puerto Ricans do and have shared the same struggles that many immigrants face when coming to America…their culture and language is different and they face similar prejudices faced by immigrants from foreign countries…and arguably West Side Story probably didn’t help but hurt the situation. Note…In The Heights is about Dominicans not Puerto Ricans so I should have said presents the Latino community in a positive light compared with WSS. I don’t think the play itself promoted Puerto Ricans as thugs (any more than it promoted the Anglos as thugs), but it used the literary device of rival gangs to replace the rival families of Romeo and Juliet. The idea of the musical is to promote a common humanity in spite of ethnic stereotypes. I found myself in Central Park one afternoon on Puerto Rican Day (or whatever it’s called). Lots of fun was had! That’s one point of view, Mahons. No doubt it can be argued both ways. When In the Heights became such a huge success, Broadway brought back (somewhat unsucessfully) a revival of WSS to play off ITH’s success and there was quite a bit of discussion as to the merits of WSS. One could also say it highlights the stupidity of ‘racism’. I just googled is WSS racist…the ayes seem to have it. Petr, a few years ago some crazy shite happened in Central Park following the Puerto Rican Day Parade and it gave the parade a bad name…much in the same way the St Patrick’s Day parade was once known for its drunken craziness and not so much for its cultural merits [though personally I don’t think highlander bagpipes have any merit 🙂 having grown up in a house where they were played. Unfortunately when large crowds gather, trouble often follows. I don’t go to either parade but I’m told the participants and police do their best to make sure things don’t descend into chaos. Well, the time I was there it was very festive and colourful. A good atmosphere with no trouble which is what these occasions should be. I’m not a fan of them either. I haven’t attended a St. Patrick’s Day parade in a lot of years. Originally the WSS script was to have dealt with a Christian/Jewish romance (called “East Side Story”), but Bernstein went with the Puerto Rican angle. Ironically, neither Broadway nor Hollywood was able to rise above its own institutionalized racism to cast a Latina actress as Maria. In fact, Rita Moreno was the only Latina/Latino in the film…all others were white actors. The 2000 Puerto Rico parade was very bad. Mass assaults in the middle of NYC. http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/frame_game/2000/06/the_central_park_rampage.html Now West Side Story songs are stuck in my head…bah! The Puerto Ricans grumble ‘Fair fight’ But if they start a rumble We’ll rumble’em right! you can’t deport 11-30 million people. The choice is do NOTHING or seal the border from ILLEGAL crossings and then deal with those that are here. If we refuse to prevent people from entering illegally then we do nothing about the Illegals that are here. Screw them, It’s just that simple. And crucify any politician that doesn’t insist on security first. Rubio ruined any chance he had of getting elected. The way things are scoping out now is the two front runners on the GOP side are both from Texas. There should be at least mo path to citizenship, and no endless chain of ” family unification ” There is a much propaganda on this, and most are not paying attention to it See heart rending photo in recent NYT And a lot of lobbying http://www.americanfamiliesunited.org/ They want not one but two huge waves. An amnesty wave, and a” family unification ” wave. Let them in. Give Amnesty to all with the proviso that they can’t vote for 20 years as the penalty for entering Illegally, the same for any family that joins them. That solves the problem of those “in the shadows” but doesn’t give anyone a voting bloc. –Let them in– In real life, that means –-let them ( all ) in — Might as well keep the current mess, if there are no controls, if there is no point at all where the answer is sorry, no There is no point in having a secure border if huge additional numbers can go right through the front door, pulled in by current illegals. I was being sarcastic… do you really think the Dems would allow them to come in but NOT be allowed to vote? Thats what this is all about realistic number is around 20 million, even if it was only 10 70% of Hispanics vote Democrat. Obama won by less than 7 million. Add an additional 7 million democrat voters and they hold the Congress for another generation. That’s why Amnesty can never be allowed to happen. The Dems increasingly want even non citizen residents to have a vote. There are many major changes being plotted, and they’re not showing all the cards. we must pass the bill so you can find out whats in it “Using Puerto Rico as an example is probably not the best idea you’ve had Mr A8. ” Agreed mairin2. But I didn’t choose the Puerto Ricans as any kind of stereotype, but to combine the problems of integration with a fine musical which imv was not portraying Puerto Ricans as thugs, but as young people finding their way in a new country in which they found opportunity and also opposition. Incidentally any of you Yanks want to try and pretend ethnic groups never had gangs and gang warfare -even today? I hope you will agree with me that would be hypocritical in the extreme; and as we all know there are no hypocritical views held on ATW…. 🙂 There was a very popular Christian book years ago called “The Cross and the Switchblade” about a young pastor from Pennsylvania who feels called to New York to work with young people, and there he meets one Nicky Cruz ( his story “Run Baby Run” was a book and a film); and guess what? “In 1938, Nicky Cruz was born in the countryside of Puerto Rico. Brought up in a spiritual nightmare of witchcraft and brutality, he screamed out his aggression all the way to the streets of New York City. Now in 1958, a time when teens dance the jitterbug, and the city swells with clashing cultures, Nicky stands alone in this concrete jungle. Seduced by the power of gangs, he joins for his own protection and a sense of identity. Nicky quickly becomes the most vicious and feared gang warlord of them all. But just as he reaches the height of his fame, his personal battles bring him to his knees. The movie is based on the life story of Nicky Cruz who is legendary throughout the world for his compelling and honest message of life on the streets. His life is a story of survival, fear and the matchless power of love. ” 🙂 So back to the main plot re illegal immigrants.. The America of today I would suggest is a more fractured society than the late ’50s early ’60s when Nicky Cruz arrived from Puerto Rica. American values are much more relative than they were then with the emphasis now on inclusivity and being non judgemental. If America keeps on accepting illegals as citizens what do we think is going to happen? The best historical I can find would be the implosion of the Roman Empire as the ancient gods on which Rome had been founded gave way to the foreign gods imported from her many conquests, and the gradual corruption of her ruling classes. Not that there is any danger of this happening to the United States of America or Western Europe of course. 😉 http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1084558/posts Banish the thought there are no hypocritters on ATW though I think we all suffer from cognitive dissonance from time to time. Last month I went to a Lunch & Learn program that featured a very successful 40-something businessman who was born and raised in rural Puerto Rico. Spanish was more or less his only language. He received a full scholarship to a university in Idaho. Most Idahoans had never met a Puerto Rican and their only reference point was WSS. He had to live down the WSS stereotype big time throughout his time there. I could cite a few more examples how the stereotype has played out but I feel it best to to leave this topic alone for now because if I ask one more coworker if he’s ‘gotta rocket in your pocket?’ I could get fired. I initially posted in response to Mahons the Pompous. And imv he is POMPOUS. I gave an “OTTOMH” list of Christian values and responsibilities in a democratic society, which imo generically owes its existence and development to Judaeo/Christian values. We were talking about illegal immigrants being granted full citizenship rights and I said I disagreed , and “Mahons the Just” said that was contrary to my Christian beliefs. I offered up the Puerto Rican experience of integrating into WASP America as illustrated by WSS, and it descended into a farce of what I was trying to address. So look, I gave the fall of the Roman Empire as an illustration, and how that the new post Christian Western world has rejected those Christian absolute moral values, but retained the idea that all cultures are of equal value, and we should be able to assimilate all their beliefs and customs into our own, and everything will turn out hunky dory. Well, it won’t. It won’t! America will fall because America came to believe the lie that “All roads lead to God and all lies are acceptable to God, and he sent Jesus into the world for nothing.” America did not become a great nation because the original Christian pilgrims wanted to worship and serve God. America became great because they accepted that all religions and all cultures are of equal value.” In my opinion that is why America (and Western Europe) is in the mess it is now. A8 Have faith brother, believe me the Average American does NOT believe that: “All roads lead to God and all lies are acceptable to God, and he sent Jesus into the world for nothing.” Jesus is alive and well over here. Agit8ed – when haven’t your comments descended into farce? Trollio, I hope you are right. I am a Protestant Christian and you are a Catholic Christian. It is not my place to judge a man from the core values he started out with. I leave that up to the Lord Jesus Christ who allowed Himself to be crucified for the sake of lost and sinful mankind. The way I see it is that the Christian West (including the USA) has lost its way and has fallen into the same trap that the Roman Empire fell into. Under the inspiration of their gods they built a strong Republic. They went out and conquered the known world under the inspiration and values of their gods, and then they allowed the gods of their conquered territories to come and live amongst them… In my opinion that is what is happening in Western Europe and America. We think that we can absorb all these various beliefs and remain unchanged. Well, history teaches us that we can’t. ” Agit8ed – when haven’t your comments descended into farce? ” Mahons, Probably since a certain pompous American of Irish heritage pompously announced that he would give up posting and “only occasionally comment…” You can’t stay away ,because ATW is the only place that gives you some kind of reverence… 😉 I gave you a list of what imo Christians believe, and their responsibilities in a democratic society. , and you can’t even bring your warm and fuzzy liberal self to acknowledge and question them… How shallow is that Mahonsio? I believe the expression was comment from time to time, I’d taper off more quickly if there was so much error to correct. Real Americans believe in this lol now that’s funny Mahons correcting errors… haven’t laughed that hard in weeks, thanks ” I believe the expression was comment from time to time, I’d taper off more quickly if there was so much error to correct.” Pompous or what?! Listen sonny, You have a gift for writing which I and others here have acknowledged. Personally I have made it clear that I am not an intellectual. I am an “ordinary Joe.” The type that pompous and liberal intellectuals pretend to champion, as long as they slavishly follow the caring and compassionate intellectual line that pompous guys like you promote. You seem to see yourself as an expert on everything. I don’t . I am willing to have my views and beliefs questioned, But I want to know who is doing the questioning and from what basis they ask their questions. You my friend, disappoint. caring and compassionate There’s nothing wrong with care and compassion, Agie. We could do with a lot more of those things in the world. Agit8ed- I think we can find common ground, I agree that you have made it clear that you are not an intellectual. You are predisposed to label people who disagree with you as liberal. Not that there is anything wrong with being liberal but you also tend to ascribe to persons opinions they haven’t uttered. You also seem to sometimes have humor go over your head (so much error to correct, common ground that you are not an intellectual – comic gems). the temptation to just stomp the senseless will not be indulged, All I will say is one day Mahons you’ll actually shock us all and live up to your ability and training. Until then just keep providing the comic relief… Hi A8…I gotta run but I don’t see things as so gloomy and doomy. There have been recent polls that suggest Christianity is declining in the US but that conclusion needs a bit more analysis. Generally, polls ask if people identify as a Christian and there has been an increase in people answering ‘no’ but that can be misleading…the increase might and often does mean that the responder simply doesn’t go to church/chapel/mass anymore. And just because people aren’t affiliated with a particular organized religion doesn’t mean they don’t hold what you’ve identified as Christian-Judeo values. All good things must come to an end but I don’t think the US is in any danger of going away any time soon. Here is a very current survey and analysis of the US religious landscape. http://religions.pewforum.org/reports The use of liberal as a curse word is one of the many gifts of Fox News to an undeserving world. //And just because people aren’t affiliated with a particular organized religion doesn’t mean they don’t hold what you’ve identified as Christian-Judeo values.// And just because they are, doesn’t mean that they do. “Too much religion, not enough Christianity” used to be said about Northern Ireland, but it often seems it can apply to many parts of the States just as well. Just saw this today. Mother Earth is still producing some right imbeciles. ” Agit8ed- I think we can find common ground, I agree that you have made it clear that you are not an intellectual. ” Meaning what, old son? I don’t qualify as one of those that “warm and fuzzy intellectuals” such as yourself can embrace as a “cause” and embrace as worthy of your support? Mahons, if you were even half the warm, compassionate and enlightened intellectual you think you are, you would treat my questions and beliefs with the respect they deserve and try to explain to me why I am wrong or misguided. Instead you either ignore my responses or else pretend that I am unable to understand your humorous responses. I am left wondering just what kind of person I need to be in order to deserve your liberal caring and compassionate endorsement as worth championing. You are a pompous fraud Mahons. Agreed, Noel. Pat Robertson is the equivalent of Ian Paisley though even Paisley has wised up a little or maybe he’s just learned to keep quiet. I’m away…good night! //pretend that I am unable to understand your humorous responses.// //Meaning what, old son?// 🙂 —– Agit8ed, there’s no need for him to explain how you are misguided when you do it so well yourself. ” There’s nothing wrong with care and compassion, Agie ” True Petrkin, but it all depends what you mean by that and what I understand by that. I am saying that Mahons likes to present himself as intelligent, just and compassionate. Yet he falls at the first hurdle because he can’t cope with someone like me who doesn’t pretend to be an intellectual but does have views on all sorts of issues. If he really believed in the dignity of man, inclusion and respect for all, I would be an ideal subject for his lofty and caring ideals.. He disappoints. Agit8ed – I can only assume you are disappointed that Matlock or the Golden Girls was not on tonight and you need a target for your frustration. “Agit8ed, there’s no need for him to explain how you are misguided when you do it so well yourself.” Ah, speaks Noel the Creep who told me I was mentally sick/ill! So what are you doing addressing comments to me? Shove off. Yo. Everybody take a walk around the block. Smell the goddamned roses please. ” Agit8ed – I can only assume you are disappointed that Matlock or the Golden Girls was not on tonight and you need a target for your frustration.” ? What on earth are you talking about?? Or is this the way pseudo intellectual Irish American Catholics deal with honest questions? ” Yo. Everybody take a walk around the block. Smell the goddamned roses please.” Get lost Phantom, Let’s instead have a bit of honesty here. Mahons likes to think he is charming, intellectual and cultured. That he believes in his fellow man and champions the rights of the underdog. But when someone like me questions him, it all falls apart because I don’t play his game, so out come the insults and put downs. Agit8ed, It seems that both you and I share share Jonathan Swift’s opinion, when he wrote:- “For he abhorred that senseless tribe Who call it humor when they jibe.” He got it right when he described them as ‘senseless’… OK, then I will go smell the bus exhausts on Water St. Cheers, all. Agit8ed- Colm is gay, Paul was chased out of NI, Noel’s a creep and I’m pompous. Gosh I got off the easiest…. (You are suffering internet blogging disorder in which a person becomes too personally involved in blogging discussions. Why not relax and not take this frivolous habit less seriously.) Good night, sweet prince. Mahons it’s one thing to dance and not debate, but your last comment about Matlock and the Golden Girls was abusive. and this statement here: (You are suffering internet blogging disorder in which a person becomes too personally involved in blogging discussions. Why not relax and not take this frivolous habit less seriously.) From a man who bid posting farewell implying he needed the real world of a barstool is quite rich. You owe the man an apology. You owe the man an apology. Say’s the site’s most cretinous, abusive hayseed. Agitated doesn’t mind demeaning or categorizing his fellow posters along subjective lines. It’s been well-noted that he sure does push back when placed in a similarly restrictive four-cornered box. I’d have more respect for the man if Praise Jesus & slurs against Irish or Gays didn’t enter every conversation he entered. Troll – Don’t make me laugh. You could post apologies every day for a year and not be done. Daphne and Mahons, IMO Mahons likes to see himself as”the man who can’t acknowledge compliments for his writing skills from Agit8ed” because Agit8ed is English. 🙂 Mahons prefers to see himself as “a true Irish Man in exile” but would not dream of has no returning to his homeland, because he’d end up as nobody over there. Whereas in America he can pretend to be a somebody. I still admire Mahons’s literary skills, because he has a gift for writing. All else is pomposity, and an exaggerated sense of self importance. When I said I didn’t regard myself as an intellectual, I meant I regarded myself as one of those “ordinary folk” he champions who have their own opinions, but is also willing to be challenged on those opinions.. But perhaps there is a difference between “ordinary English folk” and “ordinary Irish folk?” Mahons likes to champion the underdog, but has no intention whatever of returning to Ireland…. Agit I don’t think that you understand mahons very well. How is he pretending to be someone? He expresses his opinion, and he throws the odd elbow, like most here. A8…just comment when you feel like it. Don’t worry about Mahons…or Noel. They might come back to ‘haunt’ you from time to time but that means either they have time on their hands or are not using their time wisely. Just move on…. Phantom, ” I don’t think that you understand Mahons very well.” No, I don’t. What’s to understand? Because I thought that people who like to see themselves as liberal, enlightened men of the world would treat their less educated or less intelligent fellow human beings with more respect. “A8…just comment when you feel like it. Don’t worry about Mahons…or Noel. They might come back to ‘haunt’ you from time to time but that means either they have time on their hands or are not using their time wisely. Just move on….” mairin2 I don’t do that. I look at the philosophical viewpoint my adversary is coming from. Mahons and his ilk like to pretend they are all for the common man as long as the common man defers to their wisdom. But I regard myself as common as they are. My quest is for truth. Therefore am willing to lay myself open to intelligent debate ands questioning of my position on any issue. Mahons doesn’t do that. If it makes you feel any better…every time I see his name I see Sister Mary Mahons…such is the wit he praises himself for…;-) Let it go, A8. Agi, I don’t see you as uneducated or lacking intelligence, far from it, but you often treat people on the other side of an issue with a wide latitude of rude disrespect. I suspect the problem you and a few others have with Mahons is his laser sharp wit and ability to demolish your inaccurate arguments with a minimum of effort. Mahons is an offline friend mine, so naturally my opinion is biased, but your imagined portrayal of the man is not even close to the real person I know. Daphne, you didn’t go to an (Irish-Italian) Catholic School did you? Mahons lobs chalky erasers. A8, you came on here to discuss Mahons. It’s not worth it and it’s a mistake in my opinion. Stand your ground and move on. Hi a Mhairín 🙂 There was an Irish lesson for yourself a few days ago, in this post: Int en bec – The blackbird of Belfast Lough 🙂 Ná bac le mac an bhacaigh is ní bhacfaidh mac an bhacaigh leat…let sleeping dogs lie. Perfect for this thread. “Mahons is an offline friend mine, so naturally my opinion is biased, but your imagined portrayal of the man is not even close to the real person I know.” Daphne, Frankly I could care less if Mahons was your maternal Great Aunt. It makes no difference to me. No one YET has challenged me on my stated recognition that Mahons has a literary gift. He has! I envy his ability to write in the way that he does, because he has an ability to express what many of us feel in our hearts but can’t put into writing. I have recognised it many times on ATW. I am an older man. I thought that Colm had said he was Gay, Is it really that important that I was wrong, and if so why?? Please show me one of my comments where I have said that being Gay was evil. I thought Paul McMahons had left NI because he had some connection to the Republican cause. Please find a comment of mine where I have maligned him for doing that. If Mahons wants to portray himself as a Champion of the Common man, he will also have to accept that sometimes the Common man may not agree with him. I respect your offline friendship with Mr Mahons. I am a very loyal person myself. I too will defend a friend until I become convinced that my friend may be wrong, because I think absolute truth is more important than loyalty. True, mairin2. Other appropriate sayings might be; Is minic a bhris béal duine a shrón – It’s often a person’s mouth broke his nose Aithnonn ciaróg ciaróg eile – One beetle recognises another beetle, or It takes one to know one and Is binn béal ina thost – It’s a sweet mouth that’s silent Mairin, I went to a Polish Catholic school in Milwaukee. Chalky erasures were lobbed all day long, especially by the nuns. Daphne, Thank you for your response to my 12:44 Nuns lobbing chalk board erasures is infinitely more important. Is binn béal ina thost — so much for my bin bayl. I will try to hold my tongue. How do you say “I will hold my tongue” in Irish? Which brings up an interesting connection between brogue and tongue…I’m sure you know it. “How do you say I will hold my tongue” in Irish?” I would say Beidh mé i mo those – I will be in my silence/ I will be silent, but I’m sure there’s a nicer way. I’ll look it up. mairin2, You seriously think that I as an Englishman, “It’s not worth it and it’s a mistake in my opinion. Stand your ground and move on. ” Wouldn’t stand my ground?! You think we ordinary English/British who whilst realising we had got things wrong in Ireland, nevertheless tried to keep the peace in Northern Ireland, wouldn’t stand our ground? That it is British troops (including Irish/Scots and Welsh troops) who go out and lose arms and legs and lives fighting for our country… NOT Republic of Ireland troops? Keep on practicing the language girl. The English/British will keep on defending your right to do so. Oh that includes the Northern Irish,,,,,, 😉 Goodnight A8. It must be very late there. Fine I’ll be blunt. Daphne, on July 15th, 2013 at 12:00 AM Said: Agi, I don’t see you as uneducated or lacking intelligence, far from it, but you often treat people on the other side of an issue with a wide latitude of rude disrespect. I suspect the problem you and a few others have with Mahons is his laser sharp wit and ability to demolish your inaccurate arguments with a minimum of effort. Mahons is an offline friend mine, so naturally my opinion is biased, but your imagined portrayal of the man is not even close to the real person I know. A liar attacking a man with the defense of a man who has NEVER put a legitimate Logical defense of any position he has ever held on this site. He is a trained Litigator and he posts childish BULLSHIT and then only defense he has EVER given was to call the opposing side a liar. The fact that you two are off lines Friends is fitting birds of a Feather and all that. It’s a shame you don’t stay there, but then you provide such perfect examples of the fact that inbred idiocy runs rampant in all parts of our nation. You think we ordinary English/British who whilst realising we had got things wrong in Ireland…” I must have missed that memo. When did the English/British realise they had got things wrong in Ireland? That it is British troops (including Irish/Scots and Welsh troops) who go out and lose arms and legs and lives fighting for our country… NOT Republic of Ireland troops? Why would Republic of Ireland troops go and fight for England/Britain? Oh wait – they did, in the 2nd World War, didn’t they? In their thousands too, apparently. Keep on practicing the language girl. How condescending. The English/British will keep on defending your right to do so. How arrogant. If the English/British are defending the right to ‘practice a language’, how come it’s been 7 years since the government promised to enact an Irish Language Act, but still haven’t done it? You need to calm down a bit, Agi mate. Is the Taiwanese gin a bit strong tonight? 😉 so much for a day of being nice to everyone. Some don’t deserve kindness or respect and Daphne that means you Hun. The nuns in my Catholic school rapped our knuckles good for any misbehavior. No chalky erasers. We juvenile delinquents kept them busy. It is. But truth is eternal. Truth and honest debate are always worth defending. I have no problem admitting I am wrong, what ever the hour. I just find it amazing how many “True Green Irishmen and women” find it difficult to say, perhaps they were wrong.,, The night has crept up on little cat feet. Time for bed, brother. I just find it amazing how many “True Green Irishmen and women” find it difficult to say, perhaps they were wrong.,, You must be talking to the wrong “True Green Irishmen and women” then. Either that, or we’re just never wrong. That can’t be right though. I recall a time when I myself was wrong. I thought I was wrong, but it turned out I was right 😉 mairin2 – the phrase above was spelt wrong. It should be – Beidh mé i mo thost. Tá brón orm 🙂 A8, it’s no secret I don’t hold Mahons as in high esteem as others…it has nothing to do with being Irish or having Irish heritage. However, it might mean we are more likely to get his so-called jokes (sorry folks, he’s not witty)…do you not realize I’m on your side? I have called him an ass, perhaps worse. I ignore him a lot. Get some sleep! Codladh samh…not sure if that’s right…g’night all. he’s certainly not worth losing an over…. Codladh samh, mairin. Oíche mhaith. Seimi, Apologies for not keeping up to speed. ” How arrogant! If the English/British are defending the right to ‘practice a language’, how come it’s been 7 years since the government promised to enact an Irish Language Act, but still haven’t done it?” Listen my Irish friend. There was a video earlier showing English yobbos throwing stones etc. at PSNI men and vehicles. You seriously think that you and I and Paul and mairin2 wouldn’t find far more in commoN than dissent were we to meet face to face? You really think that I as a non conformist Protestant wannabe follower of Jesus would hate you and all your kind?? Of course not. We would sit down share a few laughs, get the measure of each other, and then I as a true Christian would stand up and say, “I am such a sinner and a failure, and it is Jesus who makes me realise that you lot are almost as big a lot of sinner as I am!” We’d give each other a hug , you would feel obligated to buy me a load of beers and I would feel obligated to inspect your urinals… Seimi, I respect you as much as I do David Vance for giving us ATW ,Paul for living in Spain, and mairin2 for being born a woman. 😉 mairin2 I can’t get some sleep all the time the broadband is working because the telephone is on dial, and I wouldn’t be posting if I didn’t care for you all….. Right I’m here, now, what are we talking about… 🙂 Dave, I am about ready to die! In about seven hours I have two engineers coming to supposedly sort my telephone broadband issues out. I am desperately trying to get up to date with the latest developments on ATW and you have suddenly emerged from a hundred year torpor??! Aaaaaghhhhhh! As far as I know, everyone on atw has praised his talent over the years. So I’m not sure what you’re getting at with your “stated recognition that Mahons has a literary gift.” Your mea culpas on mistaken assumptions are old news. Painting another broad characterization of a person you don’t even know outside of this forum ought to be rethought in light of those acknowledged misperceptions. I try to stay out of your way Agi but on this one I don’t mind telling you that you have no idea what you’re talking about regarding Mahon’s national identity, personal mindset or political point of view. The absolute truth of the matter is that you’re throwing handful’s of pointless, resentful shit because he hurt your feelings or pissed you off. Looks like your broadband is working very well Cancel the appointment Apologies, the previous was intended for Agi. Didn’t bother to refresh the thread while we were having dinner – so it looks insane in light of the current thread. Ah. I was just trying to bring a bit of light releif here while I checked my Emails before bed. Long day involving gardening, a bike ride, making my special sauce, (that’s NOT a euphamisum), and finally a lock-in at the pub. (I’m a bit pissed.) I’m up for work tomorrow so I’m off to bed now. Thanks for teaching me a new word Agit. Night night all. Daphne I knew Dave Another bike rider! I would have gone gor a ride but it is hot, humid, awful here today “The absolute truth of the matter is that you’re throwing handful’s of pointless, resentful shit because he hurt your feelings or pissed you off.” Ever eaten shit Daphne? It smells awful but it doesn’t taste that bad. If you thought about it logically Daphne why would I do that? I=What really pisses me off about Mahons is that after I have complimented him, after i have told him I thought we had a problem understanding each other’s humour and way of expressing ourselves, he STILL does the “put me downs.” For a man who comes across as a liberal, caring compassionate whatever, he sure doesn’t show much of it to people who disagree with him. \He can neither acknowledge a compliment nor a different opinion. He needs to grow up and drop the pseudo smugness. Phantom. At the moment I have a choice between using broadband or the telephone. If I turn the telephone off I lose the broadband. Sound sensible and logical to your American intelligence? I thought not.\I should be in bed. It is 2:48 in the morning here. I should be snoring. Thats the way its supposed to work now. “Ah. I was just trying to bring a bit of light releif here while I checked my Emails before bed. ” Dave, I only do light relief once a point has been resolved. Either way. Ah Cooking up,some potstickers now “Didn’t bother to refresh the thread while we were having dinner ” So don’t comment girl. You support Mahons. Noted. Meanwhile here in England it is nearly three o clock in the morning. Even a liberal, loyal temptress lie yourself should be able to say, ” Agi you poor thing! It’s so late! At your age =you really should be in bed asleep!!” Or do you only say that to a certain kind of person who actually gives a stuff for your platitudes?? Why the free floating anger? Directed at people who are your friends, yet? I have Jewish in laws, who like to be with their “Goy Christian brother in law’, because (I think) he likes and respects and sticks up for them as much as he would for anyone else he cares for. There is no floating anger. I ain’t soft, warm, pink and fluffy. I ain’t soft, warm, pink and fluffy. That’s the only thing you’ve said true. Strange notion that less intelligent people should be treated with respect regardless of how they conduct themselves. Wow – reading through this thread has made me relaise that the hot weather has frazzled everyones minds. You’ve all gone stark staring bonkers. Good job there are suave sane sensible chaps like me with cool heads still around 🙂 Calm down everyone ! DON’T TELL ME TO CALM DOWN!!!! Oh. Ummm…sorry…don’t know what came over me there… 🙂 Colm Oh a cool head – what bliss 🙂 Somewhere I have one of those old-fashioned ice bags for the head but I can’t find it. 🙁 throw the ice in some fine liquor instead Colm have you noticed that I always get the blame for being the mean and nasty, yet if you peruse these pages over the past couple of years you’ll find 3 names almost always involved Daphne, Mahons, and Phantom. Phantom less than the other two. Mahons you can say I could apologize all day and not apologize enough. Yet you never admit your wrong, and your certainly never apologize. It must be nice to have no soul or conscience. As for Daphne she isn’t even worth commenting on. But you Mahons are a pathetic excuse even for a New Yorker. Hmmm…this fire needs to be put out. I know! Here’s some petrol! Seriously, Troll, all you’re doing is inviting the others you mentioned to respond. You’re the one who says you never attack unless provoked, but you’re provoking others now. I understand exactly zero of this. They needed to be reminded of the truth. Mahons and Daphne are involved in every dispute. They want to defend each other and pick on A8… well he is a friend of mine. besides my earlier comment was the petrol this was just a punch back at Mahons for his response. You pour the gas I’ve got plenty of matches. Seimi your Idea on the other thread was and is an excellent one. This thread turned vicious. as his videos always tend to provoke. A8 was a bit…cranky last night. To be honest, I think it made him an easier target for anyone who wished to take the shot. And in fairness, he did use a lot of strong language himself. I hope he slept well, and that his broadband/telephone issue has been resolved. // A8… well he is a friend of mine.// I often think of the e-mail correspondence between Troll and Agit8ed, and how the NSA – it was trans-atlantic – must have thought it was in code and devoted so much of its resources to cracking it. Well, if it keeps them away from the rest of us – long may it continue, I say. true, but they tag teamed him, and not for the first time. I stayed out of it last nite until the very end. I really am trying to play nice with others, but I have this thing about bullying. that’s good Noel, thanks for the smile 🙂 Comments are closed.