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NYT: Ukraine Used Cluster Bombs, Evidence Indicates

Things must be getting in bad in Donetsk if even the NYT has noticed the crimes of the Kiev regime. Well they’ve long been bad and they still are in truth. Civilians are still being targeted and murdered despite a supposed ceasefire.  Maybe it was Kiev shelling an international press conference, while the cameras were rolling, which woke up the NYT. Who knows, but at least one major Western court stenographer has broken the omerta and is reporting what Kiev is doing. Reports the NYT:

The Ukrainian Army appears to have fired cluster munitions on several occasions into the heart of Donetsk, unleashing a weapon banned in much of the world into a rebel-held city with a peacetime population of more than one million, according to physical evidence and interviews with witnesses and victims.

Sites where rockets fell in the city on Oct. 2 and Oct. 5 showed clear signs that cluster munitions had been fired from the direction of army-held territory, where misfired artillery rockets still containing cluster bomblets were found by villagers in farm fields.

The two attacks wounded at least six people and killed a Swiss employee of the International Red Cross based in Donetsk.

Gosh, just wait till Washington hears about this. No doubt the criminal Poroshenko regime will rue the day it blasted civilians with cluster bombs. Or maybe not –


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  1. never miss a chance to throw a bash at the US, ain’t that right Pete?

    The Ukraine is a problem you people in the EU and Russia created, yet your hate and obsession can’t help but to try and blame everything on the US.

    You really should apply to write for a tabloid. Gore and hate seem to be your staples.

  2. Some arsehole closed a thread on which a profoundly ignorant pair were being shown how profoundly ignorant they are so, just for a couple of posts on a thread written by somebody who really will let me show the ignoramuses for what they are, one sees

    Phantom, on October 21st, 2014 at 1:34 AM Said:
    Jet fuel burns at up to about 1800 F.

    And steel loses about half its strength at 1100 F.

    Your conclusions are wrong and the numbers are wrong.

    This is in ‘response’ to fully documented and referenced sources showing that

    a) the open air combustion temperature of jet fuel is 260-315°C (500-599°F)


    Now, when you get on your plane and sit down and look at the engine, you’ll see a whirly thingy turning round inside the engine cowling – that’s a compressor because the air has to be compressed in order for higher temperatures of combustion to be reached in the gas turbine so that it can operate at greater efficiency.
    So jet fuel does indeed burn at up to 1800F – IN A FUCKING JET ENGINE!!!
    In open air, and the twin towers were open air (I saw no compressors on the twin towers), the temperature of combustion is 500-599degF

  3. Go to Table 5 on page 12 of 16:


    In this paper a collection of test results of the behaviour of mechanical properties of different steel grades at elevated temperatures is presented. The tests have been carried out at Helsinki University of Technology during the past about 10 years. The aim of these tests have been to evaluate the accuracy of existing design values for the mechanical properties of structural steel and to support different other research projects aimed at studying the behaviour of steel or composite structures in fire. The results are presented with a comparison to the European design standard for structural fire design of steel structures EN 1993-1-21, which is already officially accepted standard in the EU countries and certainly will be largely in use in the near future.

    Steel temperature – 100degC: Reduction factor on yield strength – 1.00

    Steel temperature – 300degC: Reduction factor on yield strength – 0.743

    So at 300degC which is the open-air temperature of combustion of jet fuel, the remaining yield strength of structural steel is 0.743 i.e. loss of 26% of strength compared with room temperature – and the design factor on loading per building codes is about 5.

    Phantom is talking through his arse, as is so often the case.

  4. I wanted to post something about the white stuff on the thread Troll closed….for months afterward we would see workers, mostly men, on boats and trains, returning from the 9/11 search…and then cleanup. They were usually dressed in street clothes…jeans and t-shirts no matter the weather… and heavy boots. They were covered in a grey-white powder…more grey than white. Their hair, their clothes, watches, wedding rings, their exposed body parts were ghost-like because they were covered in this emulsified stuff from that day. A lot of them are dead now from cancer. They truly looked like living ghosts.

  5. Emulsified might be the wrong word to describe the white stuff…but this white stuff stuck like glue…a word needs to be invented that crosses pulverized and a emulsified.

  6. Yes.

    Unfortunately many of those guys did not wear respiratory gear either because it was not given to them or because they refused to wear it ( it was hot down there for a really long time because of the fires and the gear was uncomfortable under those conditions. )

  7. I don’t remember the NG wearing anything but the mask sometimes…we were given masks and we are given survival packs each year because of the building I work in. We just did a walk-down test last week.

  8. No problem at all with that.

    I was not in Manhattan that day.

    My first return trip to Manhattan was the following Friday.

    My company relocated to midtown for a good number of years after 9/11 before returning to this area.

    I made many trips downtown with friends for business and to support local businesses as they reopened one by one ( including Moran’s Townhouse, Giovannis Atrium, Roy’s Restaurant( all since closed ), O’Hara’s, Gigino’s, Acapella which are still around.

    But I never worked or visited under conditions where I had to think about wearing a respirator.

  9. mairin2 –

    You’re given survival packs? What, do you work for a firm of prepping, zombie-fearing wackos?

  10. To get back to Ukraine & Russia, I see that exiled Jewish oligarch Mikhail Khodorkovsky has appeared on Aljazeera to give his view of Putin, plus a sprinkling of incoherent soviet history.
    It’s clearly wishful thinking if he imagines that Russia in 1917 is anything like it is today, but hey, it’s worth the shot even if he doesn’t make much sense:


  11. Not at all, Pete…just a pack with water, mask, flashlight, reflecting-type blanket, etc…mostly in case of fire or a blackout (which happened a few years ago). If one chooses to work for and in a place that I choose to work and live in…BIG MOTHERFUCKING BUILDING with a BIG MOTHERFUCKING WORLD PRESENCE you take precautions. We find it amusing and necessary in a just-in-case kind of way.
    Phantom, I think I’ve confused with you with a reserve/and or national guard who used to post here..

  12. but at least one major Western court stenographer

    If being a “court stenographer” means simply regurgitating the propaganda line being set by government, then on the subject of Ukraine the label clearly applies to yourself more than the Western press. Every Russian atrocity has been either ignored or spun away while regular reports of supposed Ukrainian misdeeds (and this one may indeed be true unlike the last time when you were repeating clearly bogus Russian propaganda as facts), the official Russian line about not being involved in the fighting in Eastern Ukraine is maintained despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

    The New York Times for all its faults does not follow the US government position to anywhere near the extent to which you follow Putin’s.

  13. mairin2 –

    Masks, torches and space blankets? Sounds like a bunch of prepping, zombie-fearing loons.

    Which is jolly sensible. Everyone needs some sort of EDC, according to their circumstances. I’d recommend a pair of walking shoes/boots or trainers (sneakers, as you colonialists apparently call them) be kept under your desk too. If you have a long walk somewhere most office type footwear isn’t the best.

  14. Bernard –

    Khodorkovsky said that he has no interest in politics when he was released from prison. How strange it was then that he appeared at the Council on Foreign Relations two weeks ago and given a soft interview.

    The CFR is a serious, crony, insider organisation which doesn’t waste time on nobodies. I reckon we’ll be hearing alot more from Khodorkovsky in the future.

  15. Pete, I grew up in the boondocks. It’s hard to imagine that 5,000 people are in a building. Walking gear/running gear; I’ve a drawer full at the office (home today) and not because I’m skeeeered. It’s what we do.

  16. In the past 25 years, lower Manhattan has seen a number of weather and man made disasters – inclusive of Sandy flooding two years ago, a smaller flood maybe 15 years ago, a fire at the electric plant that caused a local blackout years back a bit longer ago than that, a large blackout in 2002.

    I keep a small flashlight with me at all times, and know different ways to get home if the subway and bus is knocked out.

  17. Ross –

    Of course Russians have been defending Donbass from Kiev, and a jolly good thing too. You can understand why when CIA-funded journalists in Kiev like Bogdan Boutkevitch call for the extermination of 1.5 million people in Donbass, and when former PM Yulia Tymoshenko calls for many millions more to be killed with nuclear weapons.

    This is a genuinely nasty regime which you support.

    But the question is whether Moscow has officially sanctioned Russian troops in Donbass, and I need hardly remind you that you haven’t the slightest evidence for that. You’ve had many chances to present a smidgeon of evidence and came up empty handed each time. Given that Putin supports the status quo, with Donbass a part of a federal Ukraine, it’s unlikely that any such evidence exists either.

  18. Ross –

    I’m aware of the Kiev war crime of parading captured Russian soldiers on TV. But my point is backed up.

    Kiev says the ten (that’s 10) soldiers were captured 13 miles inside Ukraine. This is hardly an armoured column charging toward Kiev. Do you think a Putin order to send troops into Ukraine will result in just ten of them mooching around nothing strategic? This turned out to be the famed Russian invasion of Ukraine.

  19. How many Russian soldiers do you think were in Ukraine?

    By the comments you’d been making ( no invasion by Russia! Don’t you dare call it an invasion! ) it appears you thought that there were no Russian troops there.

  20. Very few, Phantom.

    It might knock your socks off to learn that people in Donbass have cameras on their phones, and any large number of Russian troops would have been snapped many times. In the event, we don’t have any verifiable photos of Russian troops operating in Ukraine. Lack of evidence of often evidence of something else.

  21. What is the acceptable number of Russian troops to be operating on the territory of a state that does not want them there?

  22. Kiev’s writ no longer runs to Donbass, so your red herring is moot. Anyone who celebrates on 4th July should instinctively know that.

    Given that Swedes, Frenchmen, Brazilians, Americans and others are fighting for one or either side, if Russians freely choose to defend their fellow ethnic Russians from NATO agression then “the more the better” is the answer to your question.

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