66 1 min 2 yrs

What is the President’s obsession with hydroxycloroquine? He announced he is taking it when there is no proof that it prevents the coronavirus infection and there is a lot of expressed concerns from medical experts about the side effects? He has called it a game changer.
Now, like all serial liars he might very well be lying about this. Lying is a compulsion for him. Maybe he isnt taking it and just claimed he was. But lets take him at his word, he’s taking a prescibed medication as a precaution for a disease that there is no evidence supporting that it will help, and substantial evidence that it could have dangerous side effects. That doesnt sound particularly sane to me.

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66 thoughts on “Snake Oil

  1. He is going to get some of his older supporters killed by his sustained promotion of this quack medicine, may even kill himself.

  2. He is going to get some of his older supporters killed by his sustained promotion of this quack medicine

    Yes, and were it to happen he’d deny any responsibility for it too.

  3. I remember reading a month or so ago that he has a ago financial interest in Sanofi, the pharmaceutical company that produces hydroxycloroquine.

  4. I don’t know what is worse. The idea that he is taking this medicine for a purpose it hasn’t been approved for with little regard for the side effects or the idea that he is claiming to have done so but isn’t thereby not only lying but putting the idea in other peoples heads while not doing so himself. Its not good either way.

  5. You wonder about the ethics of his personal physician, to sign off on this, knowing full well that it would ultimately influence the public.

  6. He said that he is taking it, very clearly, and I believe that he is.

    He has always believed that he knows more than anyone else, and here he thinks that he knows more than the experts. He doesn’t believe in experts, as many of his supporters also scoff at the idea of professional expertise.

  7. “You wonder about the ethics of his personal physician, to sign off on this, knowing full well that it would ultimately influence the public.”

    Kind of difficult for him to say no. His personal physician is a naval officer. As a naval officer he can’t say really say no to the Commander-in-Chief. While as a doctor he can’t put out a statement saying he disagreed with his patient on hydroxycloroquine. He is kind of boxed in.

  8. I don’t think he is boxed in. The ethics and rules applying to his role as a medical professional must take priority. On matters military he can’t say no to the C-I-C but on anything to do with prescriptions he isn’t the naval office and Trump isn’t the C-I-C. He is a patient and his physician should act only as a doctor regardless of who his patient is.

  9. His role as the President’s physician is a military matter. The Uniform Code doesn’t differentiate between military orders and non-military orders. By definition they are all military orders.

  10. I feel like he is lying about it but who knows. Either way it is a crazy situation. Course Pelosi had to call him obese so he will probably be more concerned with that than anything else.

  11. Pelosi called him ” morbidly obese ” which is clearly not true. She doesn’t know what those words mean.

    This is part of the Trumperization of the culture, that people just call one another horrible words, even if you have no idea what they mean.

  12. Yes, I saw that just now on CNN. An odd thing to say. Whatever you say about the guy, he looks pretty physically robust for his age.

  13. Pelosi called him ” morbidly obese ”

    Coming from someone who resembles a plastic Skeletor.

  14. //The ethics and rules applying to his role as a medical professional must take priority.//

    Oh, for God’s sake.

  15. Doctors will often give in to a patient’s request on borderline things.

    And here the patient is not just a patient, but is a man of endless petty vendetta who happens to be your boss and the president of the US.

    It’s a tough spot for any doctor to be in. The doctor did the wrong thing, but I understand why he did it.

  16. In the middle of a pandemic instead of a president leading us out of it we have a snake oil salesman who may be lying. What a pitiful state of affairs.

  17. Anyone wanna have a go at what will replace the ‘build that wall’ and ‘drain the swamp’ as election promises after the summer?

    My guess is it’ll be something around making China pay and incorrupting the invesigatory services.

  18. it’s these conversations that are always so amusing…..

    Who cares, and what business is it of any of ours let alone judging a dr wrong…..

    Are you involved in the dr patient conversation…. no and nor should you be.

    Oh well he brought it up….. yeah he did because he knows by doing so it sends wackos off the deep end post as example….. for him it’s cheap amusement. and those who react with emotion to his silly games feeds the very purpose he does them……

    but it is fun to watch.

    The stock to own over the past 4 years has been the popcorn companies….. this circus is a never ending show.

  19. What brand of Trump snake oil do you prefer – Clorox or hydroxycloroquine ?

    These guys are justifying snake oil now!

  20. Peyote with a side of psilocybin washed down with the juice of the cactus needle……

  21. I didn’t know disinfectant Don read ATW

    If he’s doing it to wind people up then it’s not only unpresidential but incredibly irresponsible. Me personally, I think he has a version of Torettes where he speaks before he thinks. I aslo suspect that he’s not the sharpest intellectual knife in the box.

  22. Oh well he brought it up….. yeah he did because he knows by doing so it sends wackos off the deep end post as example….. for him it’s cheap amusement. and those who react with emotion to his silly games feeds the very purpose he does them……

    If a single person dies as a result of this childish President’s actions, their blood is on his hands.

    But sure, cheap amusement. Whatever.

  23. and you’d be sadly mistaken Paul.

    His whole schtick has been he is not Presidential…. because Presidential is a dirty word. You can scoff but it worked it got him a carny barker elected President….. it was said best about Howard Stern as he built his brand…… everyone listened. His fans to see what outrageous thing he said next and his detractors listened to see what outrageous thing he said next….

    Trump is in the exact same dynamic.

    As for incredibly irresponsible…. the drug has been on the market for decades but hasn’t been tested as a prophylactic. In other countries say like china…. theyed test it by grabbing some prisoner and exposing him to contaminated covid cases to see if he catches it.

    Trump has to meet people everyday some have already tested positive and there is no way not to get exposed it’s a virus, you’re going to come in contact with it. If taking the drug and he doesn’t catch it there’s your test case… if he does catch it there’s your test case…..

    and what other world leader would tell you they’re taking a drug that people are trying to keep out of the hands of the general public….. this was a win win comment on every level.

  24. If a single person dies as a result of this childish President’s actions, their blood is on his hands.

    So Masterson than you Hold Cuomo responsible for every senior citizen death in NYs nursing homes then right ?

  25. Cuomo does deserve criticism.

    The nursing home people complained at the time.

  26. I agree I’m checking mastersons credibility….. Wolf did the same thing in Pa it’s been just as big of a disaster here as well.

  27. I don’t think I would Pat. I think he’s a loudmouthed stupid dolt who talks without thinking and lies as easily as most people breathe.

    Howard Stern was a radio shock jock. It’s interesting that you’re comparing radio entertainment with the most powerful political office on the planet. Maybe Hannity should be running the US.

    I find it pretty amusing that whatever his latest fuck up we can set or watches by you coming in with all guns blazing to spin it/ excuse it. You really have all the attributes of the true cultist.

  28. Paul

    What I was trying to get at that you’re missing Trump’s style is that of a broadcaster rather than that of a politician….. All politicians no matter the party sound the same… canned.

    Trumps public persona and a large part of his appeal is his shock jock presentation. The American public as a rule are bored to shit the second a politician opens his mouth….

    Trump entertains, like him or hate him he entertains…… so people watch…. to praise or criticize either way he gets his message out unfiltered something no other President has ever done.

    I find it refreshing.

  29. Stern is alive and well and thriving on satellite radio.

    He would be the first one to agree that Trump is more similar to Stern than he is to a national leader.

    Yes, excellent comparison.

  30. So Masterson than you Hold Cuomo responsible for every senior citizen death in NYs nursing homes then right ?

    I don’t know the ins and outs of that situation (I’m not in NY) but from what better informed people than me have been saying, it sounds like he deserves at least a share of the blame, yes.

  31. Oh goodness, Patrick, there are so many things wrong in one comment I’m going to have to deal with them in turn.

    His whole schtick has been he is not Presidential…. because Presidential is a dirty word. You can scoff but it worked it got him a carny barker elected President….. it was said best about Howard Stern as he built his brand…… everyone listened. His fans to see what outrageous thing he said next and his detractors listened to see what outrageous thing he said next….

    For obvious reasons, being a shock jock does not translate well into being President. Saying outrageous things on the radio is good for entertainment, but very bad for being a world leader. Trump has responsibilities that go way beyond getting himself elected. And people live and die because of what he says and does.

    As for incredibly irresponsible…. the drug has been on the market for decades but hasn’t been tested as a prophylactic. In other countries say like china…. theyed test it by grabbing some prisoner and exposing him to contaminated covid cases to see if he catches it.

    Right, and that would be horribly unethical.

    Trump has to meet people everyday some have already tested positive and there is no way not to get exposed it’s a virus, you’re going to come in contact with it

    A very effective way for him not to come into contact with it would be to take basic precautions such as wearing a mask, which he has refused to do. Unlike many of us he would have access to high-grade PPE, which is a darn sight more likely to be effective than a drug which has no scientific evidence of efficacy.

    If taking the drug and he doesn’t catch it there’s your test case… if he does catch it there’s your test case…..

    This is NOT HOW SCIENCE WORKS. The reason that drugs are usually only approved for use after RCTs (randomised controlled trials) is that it is literally impossible to tell whether they work on the basis of a single patient. Some people get better, whether or not they are receiving treatment. Others die, even if they are receiving the best possible treatment. It is only possible to establish efficacy beyond doubt by recruiting a large cohort of patients, controlling for confounding variables, and comparing them with another cohort of patients who have received a placebo (or another drug known to have some efficacy). A single patient, whether or not he is the President of the United States, tells you precisely nothing about whether a drug works.

    This is doubly the case if you are testing a prophylactic drug. If Trump doesn’t get Covid, does that tell us that hydroxychloroquine works? No. It might simply mean that he wasn’t exposed to a sufficient viral load to contract Covid.

    and what other world leader would tell you they’re taking a drug that people are trying to keep out of the hands of the general public….. this was a win win comment on every level.

    Yeah, apart from the fact that in a good segment of the population, hydroxychloroquine provokes lethal cardiac arrhythmias. And that it is a drug in finite supply which is vital to the health of many people with chronic illness. He’s endangering thousands of lives needlessly. It is genuinely the most irresponsible public health utterance I can remember any politician making in my lifetime.

  32. Patrick

    I knew you would come on here predictably defending Trump – its automatic for you now, but I wish you could distinguish between the good case you can make for his attitude which I do accept, that he is upfront, refreshingly direct and a ‘tell it like it is’ communicator and the other side of the coin, that he is still the President of the USA and that the responsibility of that office still requires thought to the consequences of what he says.

    Just because you like his style doesn’t mean he can say no wrong. Taking this drug for the purpose he claims and promoting it in this way without proof of his claims for it is very irresponsible. If he wants to take the risk he should do so privately but not use his Office to sell what could be a damaging practice.

  33. If taking the drug and he doesn’t catch it there’s your test case… if he does catch it there’s your test case…..

    This is NOT HOW SCIENCE WORKS.

    No it’s how the press works…….

  34. I think that Trump is a loudmouth stupid, irresponsible oaf although it’s interesting that his supporters describe him as an ‘entertainer’ comparing the Presidency of the US with entertainment. It shows the gravitas and depth they have for the most powerful political office on the planet.

    Remember one thing Pat, the next time you criticise a future Dem President all this will all come back to you in spades.

  35. President of the USA and that the responsibility of that office still requires thought to the consequences of what he says.

    Colm in the areas that I am concerned with the “consequences” Foreign Policy, Trade, the Economy, and the Border….. I think the consequences of his actions and words have brought on the biggest boom this country has had in 100yrs.

  36. No it has not.

    The Obama recovery continued for a time, and we have since had a crash.

    Read the paper.

  37. Paul my positions never change they were the same when I started here 20yrs ago they’ll be the same when we’re shut down.

    Presentation isn’t policy. Trumps policies are beyond reproach in the areas I listed.

    His presentation is a refreshing bonus…. one that I might say you lack a regional appreciation….

    Trump’s a NYr but he was educated in Philly…… I find nothing wrong with his presentation..

  38. Policy? The ‘entertainer’ has polarised the US like never before, often going out of his way to deliberately antagonise and provoke. The US is practically at war with itself.

    I’m not suprised his supporters think of his antics as entertainment. There’s a self obsessed witless shock jock occupying the most powerful office on the planet.

    As I said, the first time you try to criticise a future Dem President all this will be back to bite you in the arse.

  39. Philadelphia can claim him.

    He has few followers here. He is a man without a country.

  40. Yeah a man without a Country The President of the United States of America….

    take your meds phantom….. 😉

  41. One of the things I think has to be taken into account when discussing Trump supporters is that many of them like the fact that he is not truthful. It is pretty rare to see ones that are critical of his lying. I think Charles is probably the only one here who comes to mind.

  42. Why do Trumpers here keep referring to the fake Prez as a “carney barker”, as if he has even a smidgen of the already limited intelligence or patter possessed by one?

    He’s not witty, or even close to being so. He’s an incoherent, mush-mouthed mess, and far from a “shock jock”.

    Trump was too dense to realise that Howard Stern had him on his show to laugh at him, not with him.

  43. Mahons, Thank you. I will accept the compliment. I have about had it with Trump, but Biden to my mind is worse. Both are morons, it’s just that Trump is a bullshitting one.

  44. mahons

    That is correct. From personal conversations, I will strongly agree that many Trump supporters actually endorse the fact that he lies, that he bullies, that he steals. This is a plus for them. They think that this is how sharp businessmen work.

    Charles is an honorable exception here.

    The others have never said one truly critical thing about Trump’s character as it has been revealed. They’ve actually made excuses for the the theft from his own charity, for the fake university that preyed on the stupid, for his stealing from small contractors, all of it.

  45. yes the rest of us are the dregs of society the smelly wallmart shoppers…..

  46. As I’ve always said Charles, the thinking man’s conservative. I hope you’re getting through this okay.

    Not only do they endorse his lies, incivility and acerbidity but I think that many actually support that as part of the ‘entertainment’ Pat speaks of above.

    They love the polarisation he creates. I read a Trump supporter saying How Trump’s ‘not hurting the people he needs to be hurting’ That kind of person.

  47. For me, it was Trump’s comment about injecting Lysol. I thought, my God, what have I done. But I have to own my vote, now and in November. A Democratic takeover is unthinkable. I’m stuck.

    Thanks Paul!

  48. It must be tough for a pharmacist to listen to his sustained quackery and constant anti scientific statements.

    The president is working night and day to create a Democratic landslide. I’m serious. This guy is seriously scaring thinking people. It’s not a few incidents, it’s a daily horror show at this point.

  49. I must admit you’re right Phantom. I can’t watch him anymore or believe a word that comes out of his mouth. He’s had to walk back so many statements it’s ridiculous. It’s sad really.

  50. I suspect that we agree on a great many things, and that if the choices were better, we’d be voting for the same candidate for national office.

    You stay safe, cheers.

  51. Hey guys Don’t worry, apart from Biden there is still a chance a more dignified balanced and sane candidate could emerge to challenge Trump in November… you know someone like Joe Exotic 🙂

  52. I shop at Walmart and own quite a few guns. I don’t like anything about Trump and would gladly vote for a rotting democratic corpse over the incompetent, corrupt liar currently occupying the white house.

    Biden is not great, but he’s not Trump. Biden has my vote. Trump needs to go.

  53. I think maybe for the first time ever Bidens choice of VP can bust this election open

  54. This is NOT HOW SCIENCE WORKS

    No – this is how it works…….

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1182327/

    Why Most Published Research Findings Are False

    John P. A. Ioannidis
    Author information Copyright and License information Disclaimer
    John P. A. Ioannidis is in the Department of Hygiene and Epidemiology, University of Ioannina School of Medicine, Ioannina, Greece, and Institute for Clinical Research and Health Policy Studies, Department of Medicine, Tufts-New England Medical Center, Tufts University School of Medicine, Boston, Massachusetts, United States of America.

    Published research findings are sometimes refuted by subsequent evidence, with ensuing confusion and disappointment. Refutation and controversy is seen across the range of research designs, from clinical trials and traditional epidemiological studies [1–3] to the most modern molecular research [4,5]. There is increasing concern that in modern research, false findings may be the majority or even the vast majority of published research claims [6–8]. However, this should not be surprising. It can be proven that most claimed research findings are false

    This is the consequence……..

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2020/05/16/coding-led-lockdown-totally-unreliable-buggy-mess-say-experts/

    Coding that led to lockdown was ‘totally unreliable’ and a ‘buggy mess’, say experts

    The code, written by Professor Neil Ferguson and his team at Imperial College London, was impossible to read, scientists claim

    And here we are, with great mass of idiots terrified by a pathogen no worse than seasonal flu. Nonetheless, some interesting observations may be made.

    There are now found to be huge numbers of people testing ‘positive’ yet completely asymptomatic so exposure to the pathogen was dealt with by their immune systems – and this is the vast majority of people. These people don’t need a vaccine. Those who had symptoms simply had weaker immune systems which had to go through a few gears to get the pathogen controlled. Those who died were suffering co-morbidities at a fatal level, and were on the way out anyway.

  55. His interest is believed to be insignificant

    That may well be the case, but what about the brats and Jarrod? Don Junior is forever pumping stocks, just like his old man. Be sure that there is a financial angle to this, because the crooked schmuck has been touting this drug for months now. Given the big losses that the pandemic has inflicted on his crooked empire, it’s not hard to believe that he is trying to claw some back.

  56. No – this is how it works…….

    Allan, sorry to break this to you, but a 15 year old article in a minor open source medical journal written by a minor academic at a Greek university of decidedly minor significance does not do much for your argument.

    A couple of months ago you claimed that Covid was causing no excess mortality. The ONS now says there have been more than 55000 excess deaths compared with the five year average.

    You are a liar, a fraud, a conspiracy theorist and probably insane to boot. Just fuck off.

  57. Allan, sorry to break this to you, but a 15 year old article in a minor open source medical journal written by a minor academic at a Greek university of decidedly minor significance does not do much for your argument.

    The zio-patrol just spouts its shit without any supporting evidence 🙂

    Back to the assertion by the minor academic

    Why Most Published Research Findings Are False

    John P. A. Ioannidis
    Author information Copyright and License information Disclaimer
    John P. A. Ioannidis is in the Department of Hygiene and Epidemiology, University of Ioannina School of Medicine, Ioannina, Greece, and Institute for Clinical Research and Health Policy Studies, Department of Medicine, Tufts-New England Medical Center, Tufts University School of Medicine, Boston, Massachusetts, United States of America.

    Is there any support for the assertion?

    https://www.globalresearch.ca/editor-in-chief-of-worlds-best-known-medical-journal-half-of-all-the-literature-is-false/5451305

    In the past few years more professionals have come forward to share a truth that, for many people, proves difficult to swallow. One such authority is Dr. Richard Horton, the current editor-in-chief of the Lancet – considered to be one of the most well respected peer-reviewed medical journals in the world.

    “The case against science is straightforward: much of the scientific literature, perhaps half, may simply be untrue. Afflicted by studies with small sample sizes, tiny effects, invalid exploratory analyses, and flagrant conflicts of interest, together with an obsession for pursuing fashionable trends of dubious importance, science has taken a turn towards darkness.”

    Of course, Global Research is just a minor website of liars, frauds, consiracy theorists who should just fuck off, as any circumcised critic would say, but is it stating the truth?

    https://www.thelancet.com/pdfs/journals/lancet/PIIS0140-6736%2815%2960696-1.pdf

    Oh dear – it’s true. The Editor of The Lancet did write what Global Research claims, and there’s more…….

    Dr. Marcia Angell, a physician and longtime Editor in Chief of the New England Medical Journal (NEMJ), which is considered to another one of the most prestigious peer-reviewed medical journals in the world, makes her view of the subject quite plain:

    “It is simply no longer possible to believe much of the clinical research that is published, or to rely on the judgment of trusted physicians or authoritative medical guidelines. I take no pleasure in this conclusion, which I reached slowly and reluctantly over my two decades as an editor of the New England Journal of Medicine”

    Oh no – surely that must be a fraudulent lie?

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2964337/

    Journal editors have expended much time and effort in teasing out how to handle authors’ and reviewers’ competing interests. They need now to concentrate on their own and those of their employers, lest we reach the dismal scenario described by Marcia Angell: “it is simply no longer possible to believe much of the clinical research that is published, or to rely on the judgment of trusted physicians or authoritative medical guidelines. I take no pleasure in this conclusion, which I reached slowly and reluctantly over my two decades as an editor of The New England Journal of Medicine” [12].

    Oh dear – it’s true. Looks like the zio-fuckwit is lying again

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