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31 thoughts on “SOCIALISM REDUX

  1. Yes, and the problem with capitalism is that they keep coming up with scams to rip off our money. See the banks over the past ten years, and probably the next ten years as well.

  2. How did “capitalism rip off our money” and how did it happen without state power?

  3. If the quote refers to extreme socialism, its true.

    But most all people, incl nearly all here, support socialist safety nets incl state pension plans, unemployment benefits, workplace injury insurance, public health, public education.

    We’re all socialists now, incl nearly all here.

  4. I’ve been telling him for years he’s a collectivist, and now it’s “we’re all socialists now”.

    Reason #3769 why it’s sensible to just agree with me to begin with.

  5. David’s a socialist.

    Troll’s. a socialist.

    Reagan and Thatcher were socialists.

    All in significant ways

    Pete wants to go back to slavery and feudalism, hardly an alternative

  6. Comrade Phantom is correct.

    Nothing says “slavery and feudalism” like being able to keep every penny you earn. Slaves and serfs always complained about that.

  7. Nothing says slavery like an end to democratic elections, no restrictions at all on corporations or the rich, no safety net if anyone gets injured, no education for children.

  8. just because a person believes in a safety net does not make them a socialist. The fact that you would make such a claim only demonstrates your lack of understanding of the term.

    No other single thing has done more for the betterment of mankind than Capitalism. All the benefits of our lives have been brought to us by someone trying to make a profit.

    To claim otherwise is the pure demonstration of ones ignorance.

  9. Pete is an anarchist, because he thinks such a condition would bring prosperity, what it always brings is violence, strife and subjugation.

  10. Capitalism is in crisis. It is a disgusting, diseased, not to mention inefficient way to organise society. Let us move towards socialism.

  11. capitalism isn’t in crises, it has an infection and that infection is called socialism.

    Socialism is a cancerous mental disease that too many are infected with.

  12. I am the number one supporter of capitalism here.

    And ALL the safety nets I speak of were once widely condemned as socialist and are condemned here by Pete now.

    They absolutely are socialist principles. I believe that Marx supported them back in the day.

    We. Are all socialists except Pete whose ideas make no sense at all

  13. It is no coincidence that 100 percent of the rich countries are capitalist and socialist hybrids

    There are no pure capitalist countries at all and all pure socialist countries are poor and are repressive.

    Mixed economy gets it exactly right.

  14. Troll — Under socialism you would not free perpetually afraid; you would not want to carry a gun.

  15. Which real world example of socialism?

    Textbook examples are no good

    Cuba and North Korea are sad examples of socialism….

  16. Cuba and North Korea are sad examples of socialism….

    North Korea isn’t socialism. Cuba has good and bad points. In many ways it’s a fantastic country; but it is bureaucratic, inefficient, and in some ways repressive. It is hard to move to socialism in the context of a capitalist international system.

  17. The bureaucracy inefficiency and repression that is a feature of Cuban life are no accident.

    They will always exist where there is one party rule and where the normal and healthy profit motive is suopressed.

    How could it ever be otherwise, even in theory?

  18. “I am the number one supporter of capitalism here.”

    “There are no pure capitalist countries at all and all pure socialist countries are poor and are repressive.
    Mixed economy gets it exactly right.”

    “healthy profit motive ” – as opposed to unhealthy profit motive??

    WTF. you are simply an economic illiterate, Phantom.

    A public funded fire department does not equal “socialism” or a “mixed economy” and “pure” capitalism does not equal anarchy. You really do need to research “free markets” and “socialism” Adam Smith, the founding fathers etc. please. you can’t just muck around in issues using whatever definitions or meanings you like.

    Hillsdale College offers free online classes.

  19. Patty

    I was praising the profit motive, you subliterate ox.

    All of the givenment programs I spoke of are socialist in nature, and were criticized as such when first proposed. They’ve become so popular and accepted and part of society now that those without any knowledge of history don’t even know this.

    They are in capitalism’s enlightened sell interest, but they are 100 percent socialist in nature.

    NO successful economy is 100 pct socialist or 100 pct capitalist.

  20. Phantom: how can a govt. program be in “capitalism’s enlightened self interest” and yet still be “100 percent socialist in nature.”

    what are you talking about? you do not understand:

    1. enlightened self interest
    2. socialism
    3. “free” markets

    I recommend “Socialism for Dummies” as well as Adam Smith. I’m not kidding – do a little homework before you go throwing around terms like “enlightened self interest” and “profit motive”

    you do not know what you’re talking about

  21. Phantom: here, let me help you out –

    You tend to mix morality and emotion with the amoral,objective and therefore, unemotional mechanics of a “marketplace.”

    Homework: research Adam Smith’s “invisible hand.”

    Test question, multiple choice:

    Is the “invisible hand” :

    A. a real and tangible hand that is invisible to the naked eye
    B. God’s hand
    c. a metaphor for how a “free” market operates

  22. Patty

    Stop giving references to talk radio sponsors.

    These socialist programs are in the enlightened self interest of capitalism because , without them, life would be so completely intolerable for the average person that conditions would be ripe for revolution. It is no coincidence that all the things I speak of – including national pensions, unemployment insurance, workers comp – all happened during the time when communist revolutions were threatened in Europe and even America.

    Giving a little to the worker by means of these very good, entirely defensible, programs helped fend off the genuine evil that was / is communism in Bismarck’s Germany, then later in other places. They were proposed on those grounds, explicitly.

  23. What does a radio show have to do with my taking umbrage at your misuse and abuse of economic terminology?

    “These socialist programs are in the enlightened self interest of capitalism”

    this is idiotic.

    Social Security and Medicare are socialist programs – as is welfare – can you tell me why? what is socialism?

    Socialism for Dummies is a very good book – not a sarcastic comment.

  24. Here’s a last link on Workers Compensation, a socialist idea that Bismarck brilliantly stole from the Left

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_Socialism_(Germany)

    When Workers Comp was proposed in NY in the early 20th century, , it was opposed by many in business, who wanted to force maimed workers ( many in those days ) to have to bring lawsuits to get their medical bills paid.

    This too is an entirely socialist idea. But noone would oppose ending such protections now. Because we’re all socialists now to some extent!

  25. What should also be remembered, using Germany as an example, is what is known as the National school of economics.

    At the centre of it is three things:

    1) Government protection of industry through intervention (either through tariffs or subsidies).
    2) Government investment in infrastructure.
    3) Government regulation of finance to help promote the growth of the economy and prevent free market speculation.

    All three were rejections of Adam Smith free market capitalism and would be labeled by many right wing people today as “socialism”.

    Another interesting fact about it is that it is also sometimes referred to as the “American” school of economics. This was because it was an economic doctrine advocated for by some of the American founding fathers, was the economic doctrine at the heart of both George Washington and Abraham Lincoln’s presidencies and was the dominant economic thought in America between the 1860s and 1970s.

  26. Seamus

    The only one of these German principles that would now be largely discredited would be protecting national industry via subsidies or tariffs.

    Though I’d dismiss nothing out of hand. Let those with a case to make for that make it.

    Places like the US should be doing a lot more investing in infrastructure. My main criticism of our high spending is that we spend it on useless things. We could do with better roads, rails, bridges, ports, electric grid, all of that.

    There are lessons to be learned from how places like Germany and Korea get stuff done.

  27. Otto von Bismarck and Abraham Lincoln were straightforward fascists. No wonder Woodrow Wilson and FDR admired them.

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