36 1 min 15 yrs

Here you go, it’s a rather extended vlog but I promised to comment in more detail on the lessons to be drawn from Northern Ireland regarding the global war on terror. See if you can stay the duration! 

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  1. Well I listened!! You’d a lot to say, but I think what you said in half an hour you said more concisely on the show, which I think shocked those with you. It’s not too often you hear ‘kill them’ on sunday sequence.

    ‘A republican orientated moan group’ – gimmie a break David! Their make up is cross-community. I don’t think any victims/groups are on it, but the member ship is cross community. I knew a member of it, who is now dead.

    The quote at the beginning I’ll give you, you mentioned it at the show, and that point was in your favour.

    The woman was right, human rights abuses are recruiting sergeants for terrorism. We’ve learnt that here if nothing else.

    Re the first duty of any state is the safety of its citizens. Thats correct. Was the state protecting its citizens when the B specials or British army were shooting catholics dead? Again as the woman said, killing ‘potential’ terrorists as you claim in the vlog, would lead to miscarriages of justice. Hasn’t that already happened. Did we learn nothing from shoot-to-kill policies?

    Ok I’ll give you the semantics argument, lets call a spade a spade, and call it a terrorist campaign, I’ve no problem with that, and no I don’t think the provos were fighting for human rights, despite the equality agenda of Sinn Fein. I believe the humans rights and its legacy belongs to the SDLP, and they (SF) tried to hijack it, they fought a sectarian war, which is what I call it, rather than a terrorist campaign, but lets call it ‘terrorist campaign’. No problem with that.

    Your point on the Orange Order parade along Garvaghy Road, as being a sleight of hand by clever IRA people is laughable. People who live in an area can object to marches they don’t want, as happened recently in the village area by the Chinese community, where there was no stand off. Is it only nationalists these marches are meant to inflame?

    I agree with your definition re the state of anarchy,

    Lack of equality is not mopery! The institutionalisation of human rights is indeed a safe guard for many people who were denied them. And the RC community were denied them, fact.

    The system in place here in 1969 and before did coumpound the problem. It was an unequal system of government, it too was corrupt and it may be replace with a corrupt system, but at least its a more equal corrupt system.. The corruption this time lies in the fact that its the only way to ensure human rights and equal treatment for all, not as it was before, all in favour of one section of the community.

    Internment was flawed due to bad intelligence, or didn’t you know that? ‘Intern potential murderers’?? Are you for real? Glad you’re not in power, or there’d be no civil liberties and all the British values – which the British claim is their legacy to the world would be swept aside in favour of something like they had in Russia. Not very British of you David, to throw those values away.

    IRA membership? Yes it was all from one community – can’t you see why? All boils down to this stuff you call mopery, basic equal treatment being denied leads to – not a very happy state of affairs.

    Then you criticise Patten. I expected that from you though. Wait until May if policing and justice does come, then you’ll really have something to moan about;-)

    It was a good vlog, but you got the points accross on the show. Still nearly half an hour David, thats gotta be a record!!

  2. David.
    Is Motionbox a good format? Unlike YouTube, it loads as soon as the ATW site is clicked which means the pennies are piled on my ‘Bite’ allowence.

  3. Thx Typhoo,

    I think it was too long – will make the next one snappier. But I had done so much work on the document and had so little time to cover it on-air! I agree with some of your points btw.

  4. Good stuff, but a fear it is just chipping at yet another block in the a towering ediface of revisionism, flawed and false moral equivilency, propaganda and deciept.

    Re post WW2 settlement, Stalin got a lump of Europe out of of Postdam and that did not work out too well for human rights.

    Typhoo makes some valid points, this stuff is not always one way, but such is the basis of democratic politics. We are dealing with the situation today, not forty years ago and Nationalist / Republican /left have a tendancy to use the word "rights" when they mean partisan political aspirations.They may be legitimate political goals, but no more so than anyone elses.

    Calling every demand a right debases true human rights and at the same time, by defination seeks to effectively deny others of their right to seek alternative political outcomes. At its most extreme the sub text is, if we don’t get everything we want we have been denied our rights and therefore have tbhe right to engage in terrorism.

    These rights neve have responsibilities attached and have you notie how the failure to accept responsibility is somehow always sonebody elses fault. There is a massive industry here, such as the CAJ that only exists by imagining grievences.

  5. Ok NRG, I’ll give you the point re demands vs rights. I will say from my point of view, the irish language is a demand, and not a right, and as I see it a costly demand that can be done without, but thats up to how they play it politically. For example if SF decide to go to big brother (westminister) and take their seats to try to push this through, its due to it being Adams want of this, rather than a right par se.

    They may dress it up as a right, ie culture or some other way, but as I see it, you are right in that there are now too many demands that are not rightly ‘rights’

    However, the CAJ, does not exsist for solely imaginary grievances. Most of the grievances that have come from the past were -and some still are -a denial of basic human rights, as David said to day, the basic right to life for example.

    That right in particular was taken away not just by the IRA but by loyalist hit squads, and yes the state. One lesson the world needs to learn from NI, (now that terrorism does have a global outreach, and its aim is to have as many human casualties/victims as possible) is that if the state, any state, becomes a player in terror it too can become part of the problem rather than the soloution.

    Killing your own citizens, running agents to kill citizens by proxy were not imaginary grievances in the right to life, they happened, and while this industry is big and costly, its better that there are watch dogs rather than none.

    In order to ensure the basic human rights for all, the state needs watching and called on these issues, rather than allowing it to play fast and lose with our civil liberties.

  6. NRG/Typhho,

    You both make good points. I do believe that the Human Rights industry is a manufactured scam. I also take Typhoo’s points re the State being responsible, and as you all know, I am vehement in my hatred of loyalist terrorists.

  7. Phew, that was indeed a mammoth session, DV, but it was your best vlog yet. I listened to and pretty much agreed with everything you said.
    Also, on a technical note, I was impressed that you were obviously not reading from a script, or from notes you had prepared earlier, but were orating pretty much "on the fly". That’s very impressive over 26 minutes.
    An intelligent and well thought-out deconstruction of that hideous report. Well done.

  8. Cause love’s such an old fashioned word
    And love dares you to care for
    The people on the edge of the light
    And loves dares you to change our way of
    Caring about ourselves

  9. Perhaps appropriate to this summer’s forthcoming sporting attraction:

    Silhouettes and shadows watch the ‘revolution’
    No more "three steps to heaven"
    I am barred from the event
    I really don’t understand the situation
    But it’s no game.

    Documentaries on refugees, couples against the target
    Throw a rock against the road, and it breaks into pieces
    Draw the blinds on yesterday, and it’s all so much scarier
    Put a bullet in my brain, and it makes all the papers.

    So where’s the moral? People have their fingers broken
    To be insulted by these fascists, it’s so degrading
    Children round the world put camel s**t on the walls
    They’re making carpets on treadmills, or garbage sorting.
    And it’s no game.

    (Bowie, 1980)

  10. As the authors of the Human rights report are impartial rational human beings, I am sure that they will include one new major theme in a future revision of their opus:

    The creation of a breeding ground for terrorism by cultivating a massive culture of victimhood.
    The advantage of this is that the propagandists can be gentle, benign people like clerics, teachers, film-makers, story tellers. They are apparently concerned only with the depiction of social wrong, but they build up, not unknowingly in many cases, a volcano of resentment and anger that can only be assuaged by an explosion of horrific destruction.

    One example: the journalist, Andrew O’Hagan, who has a weekly column in the London Daily Telegraph told the world last year that the boarding houses in England in the 19th century and later had signs which said "No Blacks. No Dogs. No Irish". This apocryphal story has been and will be in future a basis for a massive amount of victimhood.

    The human rights writers will have to point out in their chapter omitted so far, that a little balance gives a different picture. In this case, it involves telling of the tens of thousands of Irish who were welcomed to Britain in those centuries, and who made it their home, intermarrying with the religiously tolerant British to bring about a massive conversion of the population to Catholicism. No-one fed these facts could be incited to go across the water to plant a bomb among women and children. But historical selectivity and emphasis can do that job.

    While the victimhhood machinery is still in fine fettle, the human rights workers ignore its potential and even, sadly, have a hand in it.

  11. >>To be insulted by these fascists, it’s so degrading<<

    Exactly the way I often feel on ATW, Tom! 🙂

  12. Why do you want to kill all terrorists? European /British opinion regards all international disputes as susceptible to peaceful resoloution, do you think this opinion has originated from Northern Ireland, due to the peace process?

  13. Do you think its appeasement that is wrong or P Correctness? I’m wondering why kill terrorists, if it is political correctness that has gotten society into the mess it has.

  14. Typhoo,

    Thanks for reminding me that this VLOG was still here. I haven’t had time to spend the half hour listening to it yet. Maybe this weekend. I’ll also be interested to see if you get an answer to your question.

  15. Colm What are you on about? Why would someone post up a vlog that lasted half an hour and not want any comments on it? I happened to be reading the very good gates of vienna vlog, which has posts on more burnings in Europe, and linked the two.

    Now if you like I won’t ask a question unless I ask you first, would that be permissable?

    If not why don’t you just be quiet and let the rest of us get on with what we came here for, which is discussing politics. Or do you have a nice smutty little joke for us to read instead?

  16. Just so busy today, spotted your question Typhoo,

    I believe that all terrorists should be killed. They imperil the lives of innocents, they knowingly step outside the law, they deserve all they get. I have no sympathy for killers. I could not care less what Euroweenie land thinks – like the UN, it is almost in love with the notion of terrorism. I DO think that NI is a template in appeasement of terrorism.

    Somedays I struggle to find time – hope no one thinks I ignore reasonable questions but I don;t always even see them.

  17. Calm down Typhoo. Stop being so hysterical. I was simply referring to your 3 comments in a row, determination to keep the thread alive. Relax.

  18. David

    Typhoo just expects instant answers to her queries. I’ve posed loads of questions here which never bother getting answered. I don’t throw a silly fit over it like her.

  19. Colm there has been a week of small riots in denmark, I am not here to keep threads alive, but to discuss politics.

    Thanks David. I’m off the opinion now that if liberals do not address fundamental islam it will be answered by the intolerance of the far right, which would be a pity I think we need tougher measures to deal with the problem, but don’t think killing terrorists is the answer. Western Europe could do something about its political correctness, if they tackled that it would go a long way toward helping the situation.

  20. Colm you posted this silly comment,

    Trying your best to make David respond aren’t you Typhoo

    Saturday, February 16, 2008 at 06:18PM | Colm

    If David didn’t answer he didn’t answer, I was about to leave the computer until you posted such a silly comment.

  21. Typhoo,

    As an American, I do not understand your use of the term "political correctness." I have had this discussion with Alison before, and I wonder if you could explain how you are using it in the context that would differentiate it from David’s solution (kill all people he designates as terrorists).

  22. Yes Typhoo really ?

    What annoys me is people being humourless and sanctimonious like you, not someone failing to respond to my questions. ATW is not just about disussing politics, it is a blog that touches on everything, politics, music, culture, and yes even some light hearted silly or smutty banter every now and then. Stop being so uptight and morally smug.

  23. What annoys me, is people being smutty and making silly comments which have no basis in fact. So if I get you annoyed – GOOD!

  24. Fine Typhoo, we can both be annoyed and both exercise our rights to comment freely at the same time.

  25. Colm, if you are lonely and need someone to talk to you, I suggest you phone the samaratans, otherwise – I need to get on with bigger things!

  26. Hate to break it to you Typhoo, but I am not holding you here against your will. You can walk away from your PC anytime and get on with your ‘bigger things’

Comments are closed.