25 2 mins 14 yrs

Isn’t it  shocking to read that Police in the UK have caught 47 children under ten carrying guns in the past three years – but could give them only warnings because they are too young for prosecution?

They were seized with pistols, air rifles and imitation guns that had been converted into real weapons. In the same period, 127 under-tens were also caught with knives. Since the beginning of 2007, there have been almost 40 fatal shootings and stabbings of children in London alone. And last week, a 17-year old was charged with the murder of Rhys Jones, the 11-year-old boy shot dead in a Liverpool car park last year. At a gun crime summit at Downing Street last year, senior police officers told the then Home Secretary John Reid that youngsters as young as eight were being forced to carry guns for older gang members seeking to escape prosecution themselves. In September last year, it emerged that almost 3,000 crimes were committed by children under ten.

The complete erosion of the rule of law under Labour has reached our Primary schools, with ten year olds now a firm part of the gun and  knife pop culture. Where will this degradation of our children lead?

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25 thoughts on “THE CHILD GUN CULTURE…

  1. I’m going to be contrary for a minute.

    First, the number of children with weapons involved seems miniscule.

    40 murders of children by guns or knives in a year’s period sounds like 40 too many, but who committed them – other children, adults? How many children were run over by cars? How many children were seriously maimed or killed by abusive relatives? I would like some perspective before I get upset by this story.

    Where are the parents? Aren’t they responsible for their children’s behavior? Why aren’t the parents being charged when a minor is found with a weapon? Are the majority of these children from poor, crappy neighborhoods with a history of crime & social breakdown or is this an across the board phenomenon?

    3,000 crimes committed by children under 10. What kind of crimes? Does that include ridiculous charges like we saw with that Downs boy or pocketing a pack of gum at the neighborhood store?

    I strongly believe that children’s behavior is the responsibility of the parents, not government. When young children are committing crimes, their parents should be held responsible under the law. Go after the crappy parents who are raising these little hoodlums.

  2. Daphne: Ther are indeed parents whose idea of parenting borders on what we might consider criminal. Of course there are also some who are quite good and devoted who just happen to have a rotten kid or a troubled one. Therefore, I can’t agree on hlding parents responsible for their children’s acts, but I would hold them responsible if they contributed to the situation in some meaningful way – not for the crime itself but something like an aiding and abetting charge. Of course, all parents of twins should be exempt.

  3. Daphne, there’s hope for mahons, as his presence here for the first time ever on a weekend show he has chosen the flight over the fight response.

  4. Mahons – of course parents of twins should be exempt, it’s common knowledge that y’all are certifiable by the time the babies are 6 months old. You guys have proper claim to an insanity defense.

  5. You see, Daphne, our minds are linked in mystical marriage such that I can anticipate and reply to your comments before you make them.

    Let’s face it, it’s pointless fighting our destiny together!

  6. but could give them only warnings because they are too young for prosecution?

    They’d have had more than warnings if they’d said something remotely racist.

    Daphne –

    Allow me to be contrary to your contraryness.

    First, the number of children with weapons involved seems miniscule.
    In Somalia maybe, but this is Britain, and these are only the children who are found out. Until very recently such a phenomenon would have been unthinkable. However we live in genuinely socially revolutionary times here. Chief among the victims are morality and marriage, bedrocks of civilisation, as was always intended.

    Where are the parents?
    Parent (singular). Just about all of those 47 children would have been raised without a father. No evidence is needed to say this, because none is required, it’s simply the truth because it’s the common thread in all cases of juvenile delinquancy now. Their feckless, ill-educated mothers would have become pregnant outside of wedlock because that’s what the state conditions them to do. One of the few things children learn at school is how to reproduce, and then the state pays them to do so.

    Of course, saying so is ‘judgmental’, one of the chief sins in the liberal canon, but then they prefer to silence opponents rather than debate with them.

    If any of those fathers are around, they’ll be feckless, ill-educated brutes in their 20s, with no comprehension of adult behaviour. They’ll be out of work because the state pays them to be out of work. Many, possibly a majority of those children, won’t know who their fathers are won’t ever have met him.

    For some it’s because their mothers don’t know who the father is and can barely remember meeting him either.

    When young children are committing crimes, their parents should be held responsible under the law.
    This is Britain. Being white, exceeding speed limits and saying naughty racist words are crimes now. All the rest is excused as a ‘lifestyle choice’ by a liberal elite which actually wants criminality and spent 50 years fostering it.

  7. Thanks Daphne. My straight jacket is being fitted on me as we speak, and I am typing this with my left foot like Christy Brown.

  8. Daphne

    If you take what Pete Moore said and sort of invert it – eg place the emphasis on male behavioral patterns first:- the need for ‘tribe’ (gangs date back some time) and the feckless revolting fathers who shirk their duties, go around spreading their seed without ever any social judgment (it’s cool for guys to spread their oats and "f*** their hoes") you more or less get an idea as to why these feral boys are out and about causing mayhem and busy replicating themselves like a nasty virus.

    But you are right about the parents – they still have parents whether together or not – who should be held responsible. It is not down to the State or police to act as parents and has nothing to do with Labour……

    Britain is not immune to global trends. The modern phenomenon of (mainly L.A) gun and gang glamour in the media is everywhere and you can see the attraction for kids. The guns they acquire are replicas and can easily be converted. Even middle class kids are into the whole gang culture thing now. When i say into i mean beyond a fad – a way of life.

    The church is there if its message was strong enough – but when it comes to kids and morals they lost people’s confidence some time ago.

    Plus we worship consumerism and media – both with a stronger appeal than Church. Again that progress has nothing to do with Labour. Labour doesn’t stop parents choosing faith schools which have been strengthened. America has a strong church going culture still but it has an even bigger gang problem so i don’t see the church as the answer.

  9. Alison –

    You’re not at all inverting what I said, you’re bristling at a man criticising ill-educated, feckless and (usually) ill-raised women.

    Now what you say about male behaviour is true. Longing for and attachment to tribe is a key driver of male behaviour. Where once the father and older male work colleagues led by example and words, increasingly it fell to gangs as the male workplace disappeared and fatherhood legislated away.

    Examples of young wayward men finding purpose and discipline in the Armed Forces are endless and stretch back for as long as anyone would like to look. I do sometimes believe that Leftists aren’t as ignorant they often appear, and that the stupid policy of putting women into combat units and allowing homosexuals into the military isn’t based only on their view of how society ought to be. As a policy of breaking male trust and cameraderie, essential to the fighting ability of any force, it’s brilliant. So as marriage has declined, fatherhood frowned on and the state conditions young people against commitment and responsibility, so children look elsewhere for tribal attachment and find themselves in gangs.

    But just because I criticise the behaviour of women doesn’t mean I absolve men (which I clearly didn’t). But you don’t see that woman had the whip hand over men and gave it away. You recognise that men are predatory. True and we always will be. Marriage and the stigma of being an unwed mother protected women from this predatory behaviour. That stigma also applied to men, who were expected to to control themselves in the face of potential shame: we could respect you and make honourable women of you, but you chose to break taboos, ape men, get drunk, get leary and wake up wondering where your knickers are.

    How can men today control their predatory behaviour when they grow up in a post-moral society and women give themselves up so easily? Expecting men to do that in a society designed to encourage immoral behaviour is delusional. You want women to do what they like without censure, without responsibility and without consequences. Well it ain’t gonna happen. Women have to reclaim their own sense of decency and self-respect before men will.

  10. Pete

    Largely because you placed the emphasis on women first when this is a guy thing. As is the unfettered breeding capacity. Next you will tell me men have fathers rights but above you imply their role is not equal.

    Men need to accept responsibilty Pete and keep it zipped, drink less and get a grip. Make sure they know where they’re sticking their dicks, to ape you on the knicker nonsense you routinely cite. Are you really such pathetic creatures? Clearly you are. So why should women respect you?!

    I want balance. It’s been missing for years when it comes to responsibility.

    Gangs and gang culture has been around for donkeys years.

    I agree about the military. Boys need to learn to become men in an environment that suits. Hard routine, some social graces and respect between the sexes. As long as gangsta rap continues to say things like "im gonna fuck me some hoes" and the girls think that is the way to gain a mans attention we won’t have any of that.

    We are talking about very young girls here too. Why are they so much more responsible at age 14 than young men/fathers in their late teens?

  11. Alison –

    You cannot recognise that men are predatory, yet call for men to show restraint and then defend female behaviour which is loose and devoid of any self-respect. They cannot go together.

    Men did once generally keep it zipped. They also respected women far more than now is the case and, of course, women were in much less physical danger than now because these things go together.

    But then things were made to change. Marriage and the social pressures which protected women by forcing restraint onto men, were pushed aside. With that women demanded the right to be feckless, aggressive, drunk, belching and sweary and free of old-fashioned constraint. Well you won. People like me recognise that a veneer of morality, restraint and politeness is essential to civilisation but were jeered only when we weren’t ignored.

    People like me know that men are predatory and aggressive and that women wouldn’t like to see us as we actually can be, but you got what you thought you wanted. You see, it’s in our genes. Evolution has made us that way. Those who are most successfully predatory propogate their line. Our civilisation knew that and formed rules to protect women. Men could have what they wanted, but only when women said so, when we absolutely committed to them and make the stone a big one, sunshine. If women want men to rein it in and submit to civilising pressures that protect women, then start showing some self-respect.

    Start being women again and not the ugly, aggressive species that spew in gutters in every town. Demand of men some decency and you’ll get it, but you have to be decent to yourselves first.

  12. >>then things were made to change<<

    True, but those you mention were made to change by such an intricate complex of different, and interacting, factors that nobody could even understand, never mind influence, the process.

    A relatively simple technical invention is, and was, enough to trigger what in the end becomes a huge shift in living patterns and attitudes. Many of the results may be cause for weeping indeed, but they are inevitable, and ultimately are the grey lining of a silver cloud.

  13. You need to get some balance here Pete.

    They have not generally kept it zipped Pete. LOL

    Also you speak about women as one homogenous group of tarts and ignore that young women now place a high onus on their education and progress further and do better than their male peers in that regard.

    We are talking about a specfic group of people not women as a rule. Are you conscious of the age groups we are talking about here and how they are raised? So again why are you putting the onus on a teen girl and calling her a slapper so arbitrarily and expecting her to navigate that cesspit out there in DE land and not the males? She is not responsible for him. Its mutual when it comes to respect and responsibility. Or it should be.

    You need to accept that this violent behaviour though sits with young men in that social group and deal with the reality instead of passing the buck.

    The culture that encourages it is the same chauvinist rubbish that has existed for decades – only its black, pop and therefore cool. It affects that social group where you expect amazingly graceful behaviour.

  14. Alison –

    Also you speak about women as one homogenous group of tarts and ignore that young women now place a high onus on their education …

    This is one homogenous group of young women, yes?

    Are you conscious of the age groups we are talking about here and how they are raised?

    Yes, I have eyes and ears and grew up with the same types.

    So again why are you putting the onus on a teen girl and calling her a slapper so arbitrarily and expecting her to navigate that cesspit out there in DE land and not the males?

    Well I didn’t put it quite as crudely as that, but you make my point. When we were a civilised nation young men and women had rules to help them navigate. They were raised to rules and reminded of them by parents, older siblings and older work colleagues. They were pressured into following those rules because we knew then that being a single parent was bad for the man, the woman and was the most dreadful way to bring up a child.

    But you had your way, you won that particular skirmish in the kulturkampf. It really doesn’t do now to ask just how women are supposed to navigate the minefield when people like you laid it out in the first place.

    You need to accept that this violent behaviour though sits with young men in that social group and deal with the reality instead of passing the buck.

    Gee, and there I was only pretending. Alison, I know very well that violence sits in men. I know that the only way to control it is by a father raising his son with discipline and punishment as well as love. There are some things that only a father can do, but people like me derided for saying so.

    People not like me did away with marriage and fatherhood, they did away with the rules and conventions that came from wisdom. The result is that boys are no longer raised to be men. Fewer and fewer have fathers, their schools and the perverted society around them feminise them. Discipline is old-fashioned and verboten. You see the results around you. Maybe you ought to be debating with those who brought it about purposely.

  15. So all young working class women are sluts and whores yada yada etc etc yep?

    The boys need their bums wiped by the girls and their hands held and only then they get respect. Okidoke!

    Grew up with them too Pete so i’m surprised you think like that.

    I had my way? What – better access to education, choice and opportunity. Sorry about that, it must have been crushing for you! But it’s absolutely nothing to do with your (and as you like to generalise i’ll say yours as in all men shall i, keep it even) bizarre reaction where you stomped off home and won’t play ball anymore because girls can play.

    Respect doesn’t need rules. It comes with intelligence. I can garner respect in the fellas i know, i don’t need to talk about rules. I require it.

    Feminism if that is what you are moaning about, didn’t fail me on that one either. But it also hardly affects the working classes who couldn’t care less about it.

    We all know about your violence and how it needs keeping in check – so try it! It’s not that hard. Why don’t daddies instill some respect and order in their kids? If you watch any of the mindless drivel on tv where cops struggle with violence on our streets there are a good proportion of fathers in there Pete. You need to get over this idea the whole issue sits with single mums and wimmin.

  16. Alison –

    I’d have thought it was clear I believe that a prime contributor is the destruction of the rules which when taken together pacified male behaviour and protected women. How you believe I think it’s all the fault of women, I don’t know.

    Let me know when you’re back to reading what is actually on the screen.

  17. I read it. Men are not beyond acquiring those rules they need to keep them in check (poor devils). Imagine needing rules to force politeness civility manners and prevent you from random acts of carnage. That must be awful. To me it comes with intelligence. But one issue i took up with you is this: shirking. If you feel the rules come ONLY within a two parent family then men need to stop sowing their oats, or being pathetic little boys and start taking responsibility. If you want to provide for, protect and nurture a decent family nothing is stopping you. Neither do we as a society need male role models in the form of gangsta rap ‘artists’. None of them were feminists last time i checked. Own it!

  18. Alison –

    It would make a nice change if you could show some politeness, civility and manners each time you discuss men, instead of resorting to a sneer in every other sentence.

    It’s not at all ladylike.

  19. I’m a little disappointed that I went off to enjoy my Sunday, what a great debate!

  20. You should hear yourself Pete. When dealing with mysoginists and chauvinists and you skirt both in big blousedness nicely, I’m not the least bit interested in politesse.

    You started this debate by referring to essentially ill educated 15 & 16 year old welfare state children who know no better as slappers (first – in a debate on male gun crime, the guys came in a lousy second for you). You went on to refer to all women in much the same way (blame feminism yada yada). You like talking about girl’s knickers coming off too much. It’s a phrase you use repeatedly straight out the gate regards those children and it’s far from gentlemanly to mention it. Then you stand back in horror when someone dares to point out its testosterone that counts for as much of the casual porned up seed spreading, gun violence, irresponsibility and absent fatherhood. And next week you will argue for fathers rights when you clearly don’t see this as equal!

    Be a man and take the issues of your gender on the chin.

    (When you think about it if they are busily taking each other out with their big bad weaponary it might solve the problem for us all).

  21. Mahons –

    Notwithstanding the irrelevence of the question to the debate, the position of the first Mrs Moore is still vacant, strange to say.

    No doubt Alison’s heart leaps with joy.

  22. Yes because obviously i have the heart of a cold evil feminist. Actually Pete when you’re not masquerading as the Essex Taliban you’re like the Hans Solo of ATW.

  23. Yeah you are cheeky Pete. Is this where i accuse you of being a "stuck up, half-witted, scruffy-looking nerf-herder"?. Actually i was thinking more of your evil EU Empire fighting and your penchant for large wagons, silly.

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