15 3 mins 11 yrs

Here is Irish Senator Shane Ross spelling out some harsh facts that the Irish Government is in denial over;

The summit went from bad to worse. Our closest trading partner, the UK, refused to sign up for treaty changes. The UK may be isolated, but the consequences for Ireland are deadly serious. The UK’s financial centre, the City of London, will write its own rules. Ireland’s Financial Services Centre (IFSC) will be competing with a neighbour free to offer far more attractive terms. The IFSC will lose out. Dublin’s rules will be made by Merkel and Sarkozy. London’s rules will be made by Cameron. If the new group of 17 signs its own agreement, Ireland will be further isolated from a natural ally.

We are certain to suffer further bullying. Our Government took one firm position. It was lining up behind the need for the European Central Bank’s intervention to support the euro. It wanted to see an ECB commitment to eurobonds. On Thursday, Mario Draghi put an end to that little aspiration. Nothing we wanted materialised.

Nobody was listening. Our debt is still hideous and unpayable. The UK has left us more isolated. We are committed to signing up for fines if we breach strict fiscal disciplines. We are heading for fiscal union. Despite our reluctance, we are likely to be forced to hold a referendum.

Wait for the Government’s spin to hear how Enda Kenny and Lucinda Creighton saved the euro. And, of course, how — once more — they saved Ireland’s 12.5 per cent corporate tax . The corporate tax rate was never under threat last week; but the new deal was what Mario Draghi ominously called a “a step forward”. The next “step” is fiscal union. After that, corporate tax will be in the hands of Angela and Nicolas. Guess where we go from there. The writing is on the wall for Irish sovereignty. But at least we saved the euro for a week or two.

THAT’s the point for most of those foolish Nations queuing up to back Merkozy. As Shane points out, they are giving up even the vestige of nationhood in order to sustain the hubris of those who have designed the flawed Euro uber alles.

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  1. “THAT’s the point for most of those foolish Nations queuing up to back Merkozy”

    They are all free to leave the Euro or even the EU at any time if they wish.

  2. Just what do the smaller countries of eastern Europe and the Med, have to offer their larger and more prosperous partners? – little or nothing other than a source of cheap labour.

    In an increasingly global world we all see the need to have thriving home economies, and sad to say, the smaller countries with little natural resources stand little chance of going it alone, and when they see a chance to join a group, especially one that offers some fiscal sanctuary should things go pear shaped, they would be silly not to jump at the chance.

    It isn’t as though many of them have have enjoyed that much individuality or singularity over the past century or two. They are quite used to being subservient, – if the price is right!

    As with any ‘soup kitchen’, when they open for business, they are never short of customers.

    But that is their problem, not ours, ours is much different in the detail, – we are ‘nett contributors’, rather than ‘nett recipients’, – and yes, we have problems. We can acquiesce to Shmerkel, and resign ourselves to ‘also ran’ status, which will happen sooner than later when our borrowing capability runs dry. Or we can use our money and cahflows for the benefit of the UK and not of the EU.

    If we are going sink, then let us at least swim as hard as we can before finally sinking beneath the waves. If Cameron had chosen the other option and not used the veto, there is little or no guarantee even then that success would be assured, as most of the other EU countries are as badly, or worse off as us.

    At least taking this route we will be responsible for our own fate.


    You don’t know how happy Ireland’s financial independence meltdown makes me.

    Finally, Ireland will be run by a country away from the Celtic patronage, Cute-Hoordom and a Tutonic culture with great deal common sense ……GERMANY!

    I can hear “Deutschland, Deutschland uber Alles” ringing from both Catholic and Church of Ireland church spires, sung by “traditional” groups in country pubs and chanted acapella in the Dáil chambers right now!

  4. Noel Cunningham, on December 11th, 2011 at 11:37 am Said:
    “THAT’s the point for most of those foolish Nations queuing up to back Merkozy”

    They are all free to leave the Euro or even the EU at any time if they wish.


    And just how do the people of those nations do that .. what, with a referendum?

  5. “If we are going sink, then let us at least swim as hard as we can before finally sinking beneath the waves. If Cameron had chosen the other option and not used the veto, there is little or no guarantee even then that success would be assured, as most of the other EU countries are as badly, or worse off as us.

    At least taking this route we will be responsible for our own fate.”

    Apart from your denigration of the smaller, poorer nations of “Greater Europe” I agree.
    We must remember that all of these countries have in their time played an important part in shaping Europe’s contribution and influence to and on, the world.
    We Brits have no need to import foreign talent/expertise. It was in OUR nation that the Industrial Revolution and the Agricultural Revolution were born. It was OUR nation that invented so many important things and most peacefully changed an Empire into a Commonwealth.
    We are a little nation that has the biggest beneficial impact on the world at large.
    My profound hope is that we will rediscover our self confidence and become a beacon of light and leadership for other nations (including Ireland) in moving away from a restrictive and inward looking European Union..

  6. Agit8ed,

    Denigration? – I merely wrote what is the reality. They have little to export or to offer by way of resources and while I agree that they have all served their ‘time of consequence’ over the course of history, they are mostly now a long way from being able to contribute to the common good of an organisation such as the EU. Surely any applicant should bring something to the table other than an empty pocket?

    It is all rather like that which is happening to our High Streets. What used to be a collection of small enterprises combining to make a ‘market place’, is now struggling to pay the overhead, having lost out to the much expanded and better stocked shopping mall with a wider choice. Likewise with the smaller countries, they have neither the resources nor the ability to expand to satisfy the demand from within their own borders, let alone develope a fast changing and viable export market.

    ‘One man and his dog, can no longer make a living’.

    While I find your panglossian view of the UK to be admirable, I do think that the debt burden we are carrying is literally the straw that will eventually break the camel’s back.

    While the bulk of that burden is already being delegated to the non-public service, working/middle class for repayment via increased taxes, who is going to be optimistic, (is that a euphemism for stupid?), enough to start an enterprise from scratch, knowing that it could well take a generation, if one was lucky, to become established as a profitable business.

    Don’t forget Britain’s successful past was built by a ‘nation of shopkeepers’ and their equivalent in industry. All the great names of our industrial history all started from humble beginings.

    ‘We are a little nation that has the biggest beneficial impact on the world at large.’

    I doubt that we have had any more impact – when taken in the context of the time, – – than say Rome or Greece – to use the obvious ones, the world was much smaller then, but they still cast their influence over most of what was known, they influenced the world they knew, likewise for us, we influenced the world we knew, no more, no less, and I would guess that we were substanially bigger in numbers than those I mentioned.

    Perhaps if we could introduce a new age of real democracy we might once again have a beneficial influence, – but I will not hold my breathe on that one…

  7. Ernest,

    “Holding your breath” at our relative ages can be a manoeuvre fraught with danger for ourselves and those in the immediate vicinity… 😉
    I would not recommend it.

    The wife and I have spent most of this weekend with her daughter and husband and two young daughters of 2 and 4 and a 1/2 years old..
    The girls are lovely, and Agit8ed took great delight in doing press ups with the “chunky” four year old on his back…
    Delightful because their Daddy who is 25 years younger than said Agit8ed, couldn’t manage ONE…
    So I had a smug smile on my face all the way back to Norfolk..

  8. Peter Hitchens today:

    The puzzling thing about our subjection to the EU is that Parliament could end it in an afternoon, by passing a short Bill. The EU has no power to make us stay. Nor can it hurt us if we leave. Why would it? We buy far more from EU states than we sell to them. Trade barriers, even if they were valid under international law, would be suicidal for the EU.

    Relations between us and our neighbours would be far warmer if we were not members. We have no real allies in the EU because no other EU nation (apart from Ireland, a sad and separate story) is remotely like us, politically, economically, legally or culturally.

    It’s puzzling in the sense that the case for expelling the EU is obvious and unarguable. The reason why we don’t expel the EU is that it benefits political, cultural and bureaucratic elites, people who would be bereft if we ever did regain our independence.

    Future historians will look back and wonder how hundreds of millions of people ever put up with such a mad scheme.

  9. Agit8ed,

    Good to read that you are in better health than of the recent past, and enjoying some of the good things in life. Grandchildren really are a joy aren’t they? – and you get to give them back at the end of the day!…

    I have six of the perishers, – all with birthdays in December, January and February, a very expensive time… isn’t it cute the way they insist on the exact age, when asked, – it has to be in years and months…as tho’ it makes sooo much difference…

    A website that might interest you – http://www.poodwaddle.com/clocks/worldclock/

    the bit that might interest you – http://www.poodwaddle.com/health/

    Something different and a bit quirky!

  10. Exactly right Pete,
    We are involved with the EU because British politicians had lost faith in Britain’s future, had ruled out working with the countries of the Commonwealth to create an alternative/cohesive trading bloc; and against all the historical evidence to the contrary, decided that closer ingtegration (and abdication of responsibility) was the way to go.

    Whatever the real reason David Cameron made his brave stand, he is to be commended for giving us Eurodoubters and patriots an opportunity to re-evaluate our future.
    God Bless you, Mr. Cameron!

  11. That’s a thought – if we left, or were cast-out, I wonder what sort of reception we might get from those countries we callously deserted back then?

    Most folk remember the stupidity of the ‘butter mountains’, ‘wine lakes’ etc. but we used to get lamb from New Zealand, wool from Oz, meat from Argentina, wheat from Canada, and a whole lot more from many other places and we lost a whole lot of goodwill when Heath dumped them all to throw his lot in with the EU.

  12. Agit8ed,

    ‘British politicians had lost faith in Britain’s future’

    Hardly surprising given the hard time they had with the Unions. If there was ever such a blatant war waged from within, this was the one that did so much damage, that we are still suffering the effects. During that period – the 50’s and 60’s there was hardly a union that wasn’t run by communists, with the avowed intenet to destroy GB.

  13. Exactly Ernesto,
    In terms of modern history, we have far more in common with our former Empire than we do with Europe.
    Apart from our British colonies (USA, Australia, Canada, New Zealand and certain African nations) we had a great impact on the Indian sub continent and Hong Kong.
    Yes, we are a nation of (sometimes) pompous ditherers and smuggos; but I think we always meant well and wanted the best foe everyone.
    I have just finished reading “The Fields of Death” by Simon Scarrow, charting the events leading up to the Battle of Waterloo. The British have at best been grudgingly admired by some in Europe, but mostly seen as bitter rivals and apostates by the rest.

    We were never going to be accepted as leading lights in Europe, and by and large our values and practices have been at odds with the wheeling and dealing common on the Continent.

  14. Ernest,
    Grandchildren bring a warm glow to the heart of the crustiest of old farts like me.
    I just love the way the little one watches her big sister do stuff,and then copies her. They are like little sponges and soak up everything you say and do.Cuddling a little one has to be one of the great joys of grandparenthood; and as you say, you get to give them back at the day’s end.. 🙂

  15. Our debt is still hideous ant unpayable.

    This is the central fact for Ireland, as it is for Greece, Italy and Portugal. And the already-started recession in Euroland will kill off the last chances of Ireland exporting its way out of it. Debt default is inevitable.

    Of course that recession will also guarantee another UK recession. Things will likely be much worse 12 months from now, and worse again 12 months after that.

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