75 2 mins 14 yrs

Interesting to read that recycling could be adding to global warming rather than reducing it, a key government adviser on waste management has said!

Peter Jones suggested that an “urgent” review of Labour’s policy on recycling was needed to make sure the collection, transportation and processing of recyclable material was not causing a net increase in greenhouse gases. Mr Jones, a former director of the waste firm Biffa and now an adviser to environment ministers and the London Mayor, Boris Johnson, also dismissed kerbside recycling collections in many areas as “stupid” because they mixed together different materials, rendering them useless for recycling.

He suggested that much of the country’s waste should simply be burnt to generate electricity. “It might be that the global warming impact of putting material through an incinerator five miles down the road is actually less than recycling it 3,000 miles away,” he said. “We’ve got to urgently get a grip on how this material is flowing through the system; whether we’re actually adding to or reducing the overall impact in terms of global warming potential in this process.”

Common sense – and I bet it will be ignored by the little Hitlers who force the futile recycling agenda upon us. I have thought they have been talking rubbish for some years now and at last a senior government adviser agrees.

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75 thoughts on “TIME TO STOP RECYCLING TO SAVE THE PLANET?

  1. This is a work in progress. Noone has all the answers. But shovelling it all into landfill and pretending we couldn’t care less and seeing so much rubbish floating up in the Med is no longer acceptable for this pretty planet we live on. However they figure it out it’s great it’s on the agenda and it should be a continual discussion.

    Our grandparents weren’t so averse to recycling and had a better approach. Modern life produces a whole lot more and we need to take a responsible approach to it also.

    The only thing I agree with you on here is that allowing council staff to use it as a stick to beat people with is ridiculous. It varies with each council though. We don’t suffer from some of the stupidities you have mentioned previously here in London. It all works quite neatly.

  2. I remember watching a programme which showed that the Dutch have a pretty pragmatic attitude to this rather than being dogmatic about it. Where it makes sense to recycle, they do. Where it makes sense to incinerate, they do.

  3. I have always thought – and confirmed through a brief professional connection with subject – that the first steps are to make products more efficiently and with less packaging and if possible reusable (ie canvas shopping bags, returnable bottles and jars).

    However recycling can produce perverse results in that it may take more energy to recycle than to produce new. Sustainable harvesting of pine trees for paper is probably a better environmental process than recycling most paper.

    There is always going to ne yucky stuff in bins that cannot be recycled. Better to rot and burn it in a controlled manner and get a trickle of electricity and some ash that can be used in construction than dump it into the ground and allow it to belch gases in an uncontrolled way. It would also be possible to dig up old landfill sites and burn the crap.

    Unfortunatley the mad lefties who pretend to be environmentally concerned get all hot and bothered at the mention of incineration.

  4. Wow. Shows how out of touch I am with the scene these days. Dont really hit the clubs that much. Though I did make it to the Tresor closing parties a few years back, in Berlin. Was nice to finally make it to that seminal club, after about 12 years of dreaming about it. And it demolished my high expectations completely. Awesome night. The USA and Europe in perfect unity (in a concrete vault).

    Never went to The End, though my brother went regularly when he lived in London. He also used to go to the legendary Lost parties too. Ahhhh London, so much to offer. Havent been out for a night out in London for over a decade.

  5. There are some cool places if you are about let me know.

    I wrapped my arms around the luverly Mr C and smooched him back onto the decks – that’s my claim to fame for the night. A poor attempt to convince him not to shut it down.

    It was Mr C plus Layo and Bushwacka and Laurent Garrnier. My mate taught him to mix 😀

    I think they will regret closing it. You could tell that on the night. Huge mistake. Bloody annoying too.

    They totally broke the smoking ban for the night though. People trying to get outside for a fag became annoying after a while so LG decided sod it. Good old days all round (and I don’t smoke!). Love that very British attitude!

  6. Recycling doesn’t exist in order to save the environment, it exists in order to make people feel good about what they are doing for the environment. The actual results aren’t that important.

  7. The Dutch are very pragmatic about incineration, excess pharmaceuticals for instance. So many drugs, like Prozac, are getting into the water system via the toilet and landfill, that fish are being affected. Happy little fish are slowed down, and getting eaten by big fish. Couldn’t make that up! 🙂

  8. It was Mr C plus Layo and Bushwacka and Laurent Garrnier.

    Sounds like a classic End night alright. Havent seem old Laboratoire play in uhmmm 10 years. One NYE is memory serves. If you still have my email addy, keep me informed of any gigs. I do miss the old days. Though, I did see Derrick May play last year, go see him, he’s on fire.

    Recycling doesn’t exist in order to save the environment, it exists in order to make people feel good about what they are doing for the environment. The actual results aren’t that important

    Eh?

  9. I remember when the big move was to get every supermarket here in the US to go from paper bags tp plastic.

    This was gowing to save the trees, now they want the plastic bags banned because there bad for the envirionment.

    once again they created more of a problem than they ever solved

    The banning of DDT has led to the death and suffering of millions from maleria and was based all on false data. Yet even knowing that millions are still dying from it’s banning.

    I have always believed trash to steam and recycling were good methods of dealing with the trash.

    The advances made on polution have been fantastic. People aren’t getting sick from bad things leecing into the water system, no rivers have caught fire lately and we don’t see hyperdermic needles washing up on the beach.

    but the wackos run with things that sound good at the time and then even after being proved wrong they don;t correct their mistakes DDT is just one example.

    CO2 is the new example it is plant food and it is the breath we exhale, it makes up less than 1% of the atmosphere yet we are about to destroy the world economy by trying to controll the temerature of the planet by concentrating on less than 1% of the air

  10. ‘CO2 is the new example it is plant food and it is the breath we exhale, it makes up less than 1% of the atmosphere yet we are about to destroy the world economy by trying to controll the temerature of the planet by concentrating on less than 1% of the air’

    Thanks for the science lesson. It appears that you have not heard of the carbon cycle and green house gases.

  11. I’m all for clean air and water. We’ve done a great job there.

    We need to help 3rd world countries so that they don’t burn the Amazon or jungles in Africa ect for farmland.

    Brazil is making great headway in sustainable farming of cocao amoungst the great trees. The cocoa plants are healthier, use fewer chemicals, and demand top price. Also Brazil’s sugarcane to ethanol makes better sense than our corn program.

  12. Since Troll lives underground, he realizes how much oil we have in shale and sand, much like Canada. Extraction is expensive however, and does’t make economic sense at $40/barrel.

  13. I always find it amusing when you ask people a simple question you never get a straight answer.

    The asnswer to the question is Volcanoes yet all Global Warming fanatic lists of countries producing CO2 they don’t list or take in account that number one source

  14. Troll:

    You watched that documentary, didn’t you?!

    It is, of course, B.S. Google it if you want.

    The large majority of CO2 comes from natural processes, i would imagine, as part of the Carbon cycle.

  15. I didn’t see a documentary, but it has been a base plank in the stand against man made global warming that the single largest source of CO2 is and always has been Volcanic activity.

    So I guess you better find a bunch of virgins to sacrifice if you really want to fight Global Warming.

    The other and most important Greanhouse gas is water vapoure created by evaporation of sea water Which also has a nasty habit of not being listed

  16. That would be cool Trip

    Blimey – Derrick May.

    I’m not sure I have your email. Tweet me. alisonni

  17. Well Stu since I believe oil is a naturualy produced by product of the earths geological process I would say Oil

  18. The only reason the green movement has concentrated their effort on CO2 is because it is the only part of any warming theory that can be used to stop the use of oil and coal

    Water Vapour if the earth is warming which is still very doubtfull is the largest componant in creating the greenhouse effect.

  19. ‘Well Stu since I believe oil is a naturally produced by product of the earths geological process I would say Oil’

    Sweet Jebus! You believe in the kooky communist idea of abiotic oil?!

    Natural processes are the major source of CO2. Periods of frequent volcanic activity have been the drivers of Global warming in the past, yes.

    You are wrong BTW, about Volcanic activity being greater than human activity. Google it, there is no point me posting links.

  20. Here’s a question for you. What is currently our largest source of renewable energy?

    Trolls idiotic threads?

  21. With the vast human and animal population, jeez I would have a hard time imagining volcanoes producing more CO2

  22. look it up phantom don’t take my word or any these others

    Also ask yourself why if it’s a large percentage or small percentage they don’t factor it in?

    Abiotic oil has been a theory long before the russians promoted it. It has been the alternative theory since the 1700s.

    Dateraper this is not my thread I’m just commenting on it

  23. Troll,

    " it has been a base plank in the stand against man made global warming that the single largest source of CO2 is and always has been Volcanic activity."

    Too bad if that is a ‘base plank’ as it is not only false but could not possibly be the case. CO2 measurements exist and do not spike when volcanic eruptions occur.

    Even some of the largest volcanic eruptions of the last 100k or so years have not put as much CO2 as fossil fuel burning has.

    74,000 years ago, the Toba volcano erupted in a VEI 7 explosion that pumped more than 10,000 times as much CO2 into the air as Mt. St. Helens did. At the maximum, Mt. St. Helens was giving off 22,000,000 kg of C02 daily, so Toba was putting out at least 22 billion kg per day. The ash cloud was so thick that it caused cooling that nearly wiped out the human race.

    In tonnes of CO2, that means a massive eruption like Toba was at most putting out something 20M tonnes of CO2 per day. Human activity puts out about 60M tonnes per day, every day.

    Phantom,

    "Evaporation causes CO2?"

    Evaporation causes water vapour.

    What causes increased evaporation? Temperature increase.

    What causes temperature increase? Other things being equal, greenhouse gases (e.g. CO2).

    What causes CO2 to accumulate in the atmosphere? Us, by producing more CO2 than natural sinks can dispose of.

    Do we know it’s us? Yes, because CO2 exists in different isotopes and anthropogenic CO2 has a different isotope signature than the organic version.

    How much of the additional CO2 in the atmosphere are we responsible for? Pretty much all of it.

  24. Oil? No, it’s methane gas from landfill which is burned to produce electricity.
    Not saying that I agree with landfill and neither do the EU, they don’t like us burning waste either, The only answer is to produce less waste.

  25. I was waiting for the high priest to chime in…lol

    Frank your own statement proves me correct:

    At the maximum, Mt. St. Helens was giving off 22,000,000 kg of C02 daily, so Toba was putting out at least 22 billion kg per day. The ash cloud was so thick that it caused cooling that nearly wiped out the human race.

    you make that statement and then say volcanic activity is not a factor….LOL

    Don’t forget if Yellowstone blows you can say goodbye to mankind

    Also the Sun causes evaporation just as the Sun causes Warming or Cooling

  26. Dateraper this is not my thread I’m just commenting on it

    Is this sort of language to be tolerated again?

  27. Troll,

    "you make that statement and then say volcanic activity is not a factor….LOL"

    But I didn’t say it wasn’t a factor – and your claim wasn’t just that they are a factor. You claimed, and it is demonstrably false, that volcanoes produce more CO2 than human activity.

    It’s known that volcanic eruptions cause cooling. But ash isn’t CO2 – I know they are both three letters but they are spelled differently to help you remember which is which.

    What they don’t cause is the accumulation of CO2 that we observe today, and they don’t even produce as much CO2 as human activities – in fact about 2 orders of magnitude less.

    Comparison of CO2 emissions from volcanoes vs. human activities.
    Scientists have calculated that volcanoes emit between about 130-230 million tonnes (145-255 million tons) of CO2 into the atmosphere every year (Gerlach, 1999, 1991). This estimate includes both subaerial and submarine volcanoes, about in equal amounts. Emissions of CO2 by human activities, including fossil fuel burning, cement production, and gas flaring, amount to about 27 billion tonnes per year (30 billion tons) [ ( Marland, et al., 2006) – The reference gives the amount of released carbon (C), rather than CO2, through 2003.]. Human activities release more than 130 times the amount of CO2 emitted by volcanoes–the equivalent of more than 8,000 additional volcanoes like Kilauea (Kilauea emits about 3.3 million tonnes/year)! (Gerlach et. al., 2002)

    http://volcanoes.usgs.gov/hazards/gas/index.php

    And since you said that was a base plank of your case, that must mean your case is destroyed. Right? Or maybe you’ll suddenly remember something else is a base plank of your case, or change your claim again.

    "Also the Sun causes evaporation just as the Sun causes Warming or Cooling"

    Indeed it does and when the sun causes warming, CO2 amplifies that warming.

  28. Dateraper

    If your going to call me an idiot I’m going to call you names. What’s the matter you can dish it out but can’t take it?

    Frank
    Keep preaching, It will never make your fantasy a reality. Nature and the Earths rotation cause changes in the earths climate man can not effect it in either direction

  29. Troll,

    "Nature and the Earths rotation cause changes in the earths climate man can not effect it in either direction"

    I see you chose to change your claim.

    It would be more honest for you to admit you were wrong.

  30. I haven’t changed anything, stating volcanic activity produces more co2 than man does not change my base argument that man has no effect either way.

    You can go back to every thread we have ever discussed on this I have consistantly stood by that cooling or heating is caused by the Sun and the earths rotation around it.

    I have also consistantly said that the computer models on global warming are wrong and have never given the same answer twice

    if you can’t predict the temperature a week from now you can’t predict it 50 years from now

  31. Troll:

    Abiotic oil theory is sheer lunacy. It is as off-the-wall as the flat-earth theory. What books have you read? You haven’t read that crazy preacher Lindsey William’s book on Alaskan oil by any chance?

    He is the fundie preacher who traveled Alaska and Jebus, apparently, told him that there was loads of oil yet to be found in Alaska.

  32. Troll:

    Really, there is no point trying to convince me! I have studied oil for nearly two years.

    I know the arguments for abiotic oil, but really Troll, it’s bullshit. If the earth keeps making oil, why are the oil wells not filling up?

  33. If your going to call me an idiot I’m going to call you names. What’s the matter you can dish it out but can’t take it?

    I didnt call you an idiot. I called your posts idiotic. ie a critique on the content, not the person.

    Big difference my friend.

  34. Guba

    Are you in the oil business?

    Troll
    –if you can’t predict the temperature a week from now you can’t predict it 50 years from now–

    I must take the O’Dwyerian position here –much as it kills me to do so– its the weather vs climate deal. I have no idea of what the weather will be ten days from now, but I do know that July will be warmer than January has been — and that if ( as measured accurately, which I’m not sure is the case ) the average temperature on the globe tends to go up, that ain’t so good.

  35. Troll,

    "I haven’t changed anything, stating volcanic activity produces more co2 than man does not change my base argument that man has no effect either way."

    But since I have demonstrated that man produces more CO2 than volcanos, that blows away your claim which was:

    the single largest source of CO2 is and always has been Volcanic activity.

    But of course you cannot admit that you were wrong, because you also said:

    it has been a base plank in the stand against man made global warming that the single largest source of CO2 is and always has been Volcanic activity.

    And thus to admit you are wrong is to admit that, according to you, a base plank in your own case is destroyed.

    Hence you change your claim to other bogus waffle.

  36. I must take the O’Dwyerian position here

    Nice one Frank, youve just had the scientific method dedicated to you personally.

  37. Ross

    "Recycling doesn’t exist in order to save the environment, it exists in order to make people feel good about what they are doing for the environment. The actual results aren’t that important."

    This is unfortunatly all too true in practice.

    I think that recycling etc have their place. Just because we are a bit crap at doing in and local goverenment are a bit crap at co-ordinating it doesn’t mean that it shouldn’t be done. We just have to find a way of doing it properly

  38. well aileen if he is going to call me an idiot unprovoked I’m going back to torturing him till he cries again.

    and sorry no difference tripper

    Guba ok you’ve studied oil for two years what is the estimation of the amount of oil in the gulf of mexico, what is the estimated amount of oil in the n dakota field, what is the amount of oil in the wyoming range, how many barrels a year can be produced by the conversion of coal to oil

    Why are the russians trying to lay claim to the northern icefields, why is China drilling off of the coast of cuba.

    what is the projection of shale conversion in barrels per year in the rockies

    just a few questions I’m sure you can answer since you’ve studied it for two years

  39. Troll

    "and sorry no difference tripper"

    right – no difference between calling you an idiot (which he didn’t) and calling someone a rapist (which you did)

  40. Troll He didn’t call you an idiot, he called your posts idiotic. There is a difference but not as much a difference as there is between calling someone an idiot and calling them a rapist as Frank has pointed out.

    Torture him by argument instead.

  41. Don’t call Tripper a rapist. It’s a truly horrible name to give a man in a stupid blog debate. It has no relevance to anything.

  42. I’ve ignored him for over a year I just wanted to remind him that he is more sensitive than I when it comes to name calling

    Sometimes a shot between the eyes does wonders to help someone focus

  43. Troll it is offending more then DT. It it trivialising something too serious to be used just to score points on a blog.

  44. Aileen your skin is not that thin and as I said I’ve ignored him for a year, he contributes nothing but bile and I take shots from everyone.

    Once in a while I hit back, and I usually know where the soft underbelly is.

    I know I am a alone in 90% of my views here I take shit from everyone, sometimes I will even run with it and see how bad I can get peoples panties in a knot like the other night.

    If tripper contributed anything more than bile it would be different story I have been nice to him for a year, he needed a reminder

  45. North Dakota field my arse! Troll, there is alot of bullshit said in the oil industry, in fact, it is 99% bullshit. Oil companies peddle in bullshit.

    US oil production peaked in the ’70s and will continue to fall. It fell by 13% alone during dubya’s tenure. America has sweet feck all conventional oil left to find. The entire country has been searched a million times. There may be a little more farther out in the Gulf, but little.

    Even if, oil shale becomes possible to extract (a big if) it will be very expensive, in high hundreds per barrel. Most importantly, it will be very slow, so US oil production will continue to fall.

  46. Guba your smokin crack, The only reason oil production is down in the us is we aren’t drilling for it. Hell we havent even opened the capped wells.

    your delusional

  47. Troll,

    I have asked once before, and will ask again. Please provide all your sources for the above (oil reserve) claims.

    and FYI, dont think im fooled for a second (or offended) with your personally directed verbal abuse. Im also not surprised that cant distinguish between personal abuse and ‘professional’ criticism.

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