100 3 mins 15 yrs

                                Dear ATW Readers,

nigelfarage.jpgHere is the audio of the promised Nigel Farage interview. I must apologise for the delay in posting this but it looks as if the tape stock used to shoot the video may be corrupt, so tragically you will have to settle for audio rather than shots of my beateous countenance instead. The interview audio is hosted here thanks to the technical help of our Alison.

On a personal note, I would like to thank Nigel very much for taking the time for ATW at the very end of an exhausting day, bearing in mind he had flown in from Brussels that afternoon then driven down from Gatwick, made a twenty-minute speech without notes, met and greeted 140 local UKIP members and then sat down to give this interview. Also of special mention is local UKIP man Neil, who was minding his own business in the main hall and suddenly found himself behind the camera filming the party leader, all at his first ever political meeting!

Just to clear any questions on the subject up, I am not currently a member of UKIP, though I have been in the past, running the Parliamentary campaign for Christchurch in 2005 and once being Constituency Chairman for a while. I left UKIP because I felt that the party had frittered away the huge opportunity granted to it by the 2004 European Elections, and because I felt it was rendering itself unelectable due to a refusal to provide a true full range of policies.

There are many people on this site who are fed up to the back teeth with the Tories but don’t trust the BNP, or feel that UKIP are a one-issue Party as I did when I left. So give us your views on what ATW’s first political interviewee has to say to what were almost all your questions (I did add one or two of my own, but after all I’m a reader too :).

Enjoy.

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100 thoughts on “UK INDEPENDENCE PARTY LEADER – Nigel Farage – Exclusive ATW Interview!

  1. I am afraid that no matter how decent the membership of UKIP are, they are now an hindrance in the recovery of Our Country. The British National Party is now the only way forward. All UKIP is now, is a government permitted steam valve for the British public.

    We can no longer afford UKIP. True British Patriots who really wish to see the UK out of Europe must support the BNP or get out of their way.

  2. Green Arrow,

    You do the BNP no justice with your comment. Many of us here on ATW are open-minded people prepared to look at various pov, but when yoiu say it’s the BNP or the highway, you must see the damage you do to the BNP. The one thing the UK cannot afford is one party uber alles and you would do better to point out where the UKIP is wrong and where you are right rather than engage in BNP triumphalism.

  3. I’d be interested to know if Nigel Farage thought he was also being video’d rather than just the audio. People talk much more candidly without the intrusion of a camera.
    He sounded impatient, which is never a good tone to adopt, and his repeated phrase "we are the ONLY party",(as Green Arrow would agree) is patently not the case as the BNP repeatedly knock them into 2nd and 3rd place on the same election issues.

    Nice 1st for ATW though.

  4. Would you really like me to list all the reasons why UKIP is a spend force and why their leaders have lost the respect of the ordinary members.

    I really do not think the BNP give a fig what the UKIP leadership thinks or does. They do give a fig though for the UKIP supporters who have been lied to and betrayed by the likes of Farcical and his cronies and the way UKIP splits the vote.

    UKIP is just a permitted tool of the Tri-Axis whose leaders are well rewarded for keeping it that way.

  5. Must say, and assuring you that this is without any anti-DV or -ATW axe to grind, I’m disappointed that the BNP are now talked about here as if they were a normal political party.
    They are anything but.

    I dropped in the other day and was frankly appalled at some of the things I read on the Archbishop Tutu thread. I said nothing at the time thinking it was a one-off, but apparently not.
    Now, for the record, I consider Tutu to be a little eccentric, to say the least, and full of his own self-importance.
    However, I do not believe that his colour, or indeed the colour of the British-based Ugandan Bishop who also got a mention, should enter the equation. And certainly not in the fashion it was referred to here.

    I’m just very disappointed.
    You and ATW are better than that, DV.

  6. Nice work, DSD – well done.

    Penguin – why are BNP less accpetable as a political party than Sinn Fein – a political party that has convicted terrorists and murderers at senior level and that has actively endorsed armed violence against British citizens?

  7. One of the best named bands is Better Than Ezra. They are from New Orleans and took their name from a band competiton in which they beat a band named Ezra.

    Sinn Fein is not the standard of decency that we have to judge the BNP by. Better than SF is not the standard of decency. We can dismiss the BNP on their own.

  8. Interesting interview.
    But I was disappointed in his approval of devolution for Wales, Scotland and NI.

    Surely the UKIP should be looking to preserve the unity of the nation?

  9. The Penguin,

    My criticism of Tutu is entirely predicated on his political views. I see nothing wrong in that, others can account for themselves.

    As for the BNP, I think the likes of Green Arrow damns himself. It’s like Sinn Fein/IRA folk, who also damn themselves by their commentary.

  10. The Penguin
    Let me reassure there are many other occassional readers and posters here who disagree with the majority of writers on this blog. We don’t always respond to every disagreeable view but it is useful to reinforce our own views and the neccessity of promotion of a more realistic world view.
    Most of the writers here are either supporters of failed and failing political parties, naysayers of the progress in Ireland, little Britains, pessimists in Humanity, believers in supernatural beings, would be Americans, white anglo-saxon prods and grumpy old men – and women
    Most of the rest are nice people!

  11. NO David

    Phases
    Full moon: 14:49 Saturday, 30 June
    Last quarter: 17:54 Saturday, 07 July
    New moon: 13:04 Saturday, 14 July
    First quarter: 07:29 Sunday, 22 July
    Full moon: 01:48 Monday, 30 July

  12. Very good interview indeed, DSD. And thanks for including my question about the "special relationship." His answer was on target I think. He wants Britian to be independent, whilst acknowledging our friendship and trials that our two countries have been through in the last century.

  13. Penguin,

    Tutu has made a lifelong political career out of ‘I is black’. He supports regime after regime in Africa with the most appalling Human Rights records – on the grounds that he himself sets out which are that these regimes should be interfered with by white people. How can his race not be a factor?

    As for the BNP well whether we would like it or not, the climate of what can ony be called anti-white racism in this country which permeates every aspect of our public life is what has created the situation in which they have flourished. Remove the racism embodied by the dozens of organisations such as the ‘Black Police Officers Association’, stop promoting positive discrimination in public services – which is racism, purely and simply – stop treating the Black community with kid gloves just because they have a different skin colour – and they will wither on the vine.

    The BNP punches above its weight for some very specific reasons – remove the reasons, and you remove the support.

  14. I think historically Tutu has in fact been critical of certain African regimes, communism, the present government of South Africa, and the ANC. I think his primary argument has been less I is black as DSD would suggest and more I am human – a simple Chrisitian conceit.

    I have no idea why someone’s race should be a factor, but it clearly is important to the BNP apologists. Tutu may get caught up in his celebrity at times, and his politics clearly are left leaning, but he is hardly the ogre as portrayed by some comments, and any decent person could disagree with his politics while avoiding their cheap racist comments.

  15. Penguin – what exactly constitutes a ‘normal political party’. Would it be the Conservatives with its brand new Hamas supporting ‘communities minister? Maybe its the Labour party who also have their fair share of Hamas supporters, ex communists and apologists and supporters of communist dicators? Mahons – why is it ‘safe to dismiss’ the BNP? The midlands city I live in has been changed dramatically by immigration and for the worst in my opinion. I asked you the other day where you lived. Is your love and support of multiculturism in theory or in practice? Would you want to grow up in an area dominated by Muslims where any children of yours had to go to a school where 90% of the children were Muslim? Maybe your answer is yes. If so that’s fine but I’d prefer not to if that’s ok with you. Nobody asked me, or anyone else if I wanted these changes to happen. There is one party prepared to discuss this and possibly do something about it. I have never been a BNP member or voted for them but I respect the fact they grapple with things that all other parties completely ignore. For that reason I listen to what they say. I’m fully aware that some members of the party are what you might describe as racists but my impressions are that the vast majority are not. They are merely concerned citizens worried about their country. I don’t agree with the racist few in the BNP but I refuse to get all upset about it or consider it the crime of the century. I get about as upset with them as you almost certainly do with Blink or the numerous other black and Asian groups and organisations that abound in this country. Can I add that I really like Nigel Farage, shame about the party really. I know Green Arrow came in for a hard time but in his own way he was correct. That said what I’d really like to see would be a new political party without the baggage of some in the BNP and the apparent disorganisation of UKIP. Until then I’ll give both consideration.

  16. Guardian Apostate – I am from New York City. You may have heard of it. We have the occasional diversity issue.
    I hardly think the BNP constitute the crime of the century or even of the day. They seem mostly foolish to me, a pitstop for a certain type of disenchanted voter with high blood pressure and a belief that things would be much better if only the non-pale went back to their lands (or at least the lands of their ancestors).
    I don’t know how I would deal with finding myself in a 90% Muslim community. I suppose that would make the local deli less likely to be out of beer and as such, that is a good thing. My rights would be protected here in the States so I could worship the way I wanted, read what I wanted and say what I wanted. There would be no religious doctrines taught in the school so my kids would get the same education as if they resided in an Amish Community, a Jewish one or a Christian one.

  17. Mahons:

    "…a pitstop for a certain type of disenchanted voter with high blood pressure and a belief that things would be much better if only the non-pale went back to their lands."

    There’s clearly a distinction between wanting to deport all non-whites, which you suggest is the only reason anyone would support the BNP, and wanting to preserve one’s country as one’s own. At present, Britain has half a million immigrants coming in each year, which is ten times the number we had when Blair came into power. As Keith Vaz, a former Blair minister, boasted recently, Britain has being transformed by immigration, and, as Guardian Apostate says, this change has not been for the better.
    As Alison wrote in a post the other day, almost two-fifths of people see race and immigration as their top concern. Well over half of the British people want to see very substantial reductions in levels of immigration. And yet the only party which is really prepared to do anything about the problem is the BNP. Perhaps if the three main parties weren’t all so hooked up on appealing exclusively to the liberal-left, then it might be worth voting for them. But at present it isn’t.

    And I have to say that I find your belief that the US constitution has some kind of magical power which compels those who live in America to live by its rules touchingly naive. The reason that you presently enjoy constitutional freedoms is not because of the power of the constitution itself, but because America has traditionally been populated by civilised Europeans. Muslims do not respect such things as rights, constitutional or otherwise, and if they were to form the majority of people in your country, as they may do soon in ours, then the constitution would have absolutely no effect on their behaviour.

    And I wouldn’t hold out too much hope that all those Mexicans invading your Southern states will suddenly start to be all nice when they’re in charge either.

  18. Mahons

    In the UK people didnt just feel ‘disenchanted’ they felt devastated and rejected. You are forgetting where the BNP pitch themselves. Labour was and is billed as the party of the working classes – they sold the working class out and the BNP are a direct result of that anger. The BNP understood what was going on in the council estates better than Labour and are far far from foolish. This is more than merely about schools and corner shops (delis) – there were race riots in the 90s, murders, anger and hatred, isolated ethnic groups with ‘strange’ cultures foisted on working class people expected to just cope in the 60s council estates with massive change. Labour rejected them utterly, thumbed their noses at them and foucsed on its new voterbase.

    The US was built on diversity (‘send us your poor’) – so you cannot compare – other than that you exported a version of civil rights political correctness and ID politics to a post war Britain struggling to regain its footing – and not nearly so self assured and comfortable in its own skin (the country had been brutalised during the war and the working classes were not prepared for all the changes afoot). Labour was where they were at politically. Immigration was forced into and onto communities and noone gave a crap about how that played out. To begin with racism was challenged on the basis of ‘we are all the same’. For the most part families got on. but then rights and political correctness were fostered as identity politics ( result: Bradford, Brixton, Tottenham, Toxteth riots). By the 90s this was in full swing.

    ‘Respect’ (the other racist party) is one such product of its time also.

    The language of the BNP and what is at the heart of it is ugly – but it is merely now adopting identity politics created by the left. They saw what was going on in the UK clearly. This is gaining momentum purely because noone will address immigration and the lefts refusal to be anything but aloof to the issues that come with immigration and real life. The upper class liberals sitting in the ivory towers of Hampstead chattering away about the ‘benefits’ of a multi cultural society has fostered bitter resentment. .

  19. Mahons – the point I’m trying to make is would you be happy in a large Muslim community. It’s an experience more and more of us are having forced upon us. Our only alternative is to move. Not only can I not afford to at the moment but I have a degree of guilt at leaving my 67 year old single female and 75 year old recently widowed male, neighbours. You see I was open minded and relaxed about immigration to begin with but the numbers and pace of change caused me to think again. I can remember what times were like before both pale and non-pale (this whole skin colour thing is an absolute red herring, not only because many of the problems caused by immigration are cultural but also because, in my experience ‘racsim’ is as likely and as common between Indians and Africans, for example, as any ‘pale’ people) and it was without doubt a much better place to live, work and play. Not anymore. What exactly is foolish about the BNP?

  20. Mahons,

    "One of the best named bands is Better Than Ezra. They are from New Orleans and took their name from a band competiton in which they beat a band named Ezra."

    Speaking of band names and the BNP, I once saw a band called The Below Average White Band.

  21. Fulham Reactionary: I certainly wasn’t limiting the BNP voters (what was the high water mark again? .05%?) to one prejudice. I am sure their are a wide range of prejudices, not limited to color, that color their views. Indeed, there are probably some who have talked themselves into believing this fringe party is the last hope.

    Civilized Europeans in the U.S.? The very arguments you make against the Muslims were made by earlier arriving Europeans about the later arriving ones in my country. We’ve heard it before.

  22. Guardian Apostate – there is nothing foolish about them – they know exactly what they are doing. The only people who are foolish are the ones who refuse to argue the points you are raising and find the whole thing amusing. aka Ivory tower liberals or Marxists.

  23. Devils Advocate: I used the phrase disenchanted for comic effect. I am sure there are those among the BNP who feel rejected, devastated etc. That is exactly who such organizations appeal to.

  24. Mahons:

    The BNP high water mark was 5% (at the 2004 Euro elections), but clearly the concerns they raise (which, incidentally you haven’t mentioned, preferring to indulge in the childish name-calling which characterises much of what you write here) have widespread currency, as I have demonstrated. Indeed, I have never actually voted BNP myself, and have only once had the opportunity to (again, in the 2004 Euros). Next time will be different, perhaps.

    "Indeed, there are probably some who have talked themselves into believing this fringe party is the last hope."

    Well, perhaps with your great knowledge of the situation in the UK, you could explain to us why the BNP is not this country’s last hope. Who else would do anything to solve Britain’s problems? The Tories, perhaps, with their new shadow communities secretary who not only supports Hamas, but also wants to give more privileges to illegal immigrants? UKIP, who seem to think that absolutely everything will be okay as long as we are out of the EU, and that no other matter even needs to be discussed?

    "The very arguments you make against the Muslims were made by earlier arriving Europeans about the later arriving ones in my country. We’ve heard it before."

    If by this you are, as you appear to be, implying that the argument is therefore wrong, then you are relying on false logic. Just because an argument of this nature has been wrong in relation to one situation, does not make it any more or less likely to be wrong applied to another set of people.

  25. Mahons,

    It is wrong to draw comparisons between the UK and the US with regard to immigration.

    While the one has ‘room a plenty’, the other is one of the more overcrowded places on the planet – some 230 per sq.km. in the UK and just 30 per sq.km.in the US. You may well have a larger numeric influx, but as a proportion of the existing population we are at ‘inundation’ levels. A virtual sunami of people is arriving on our shores.

    Link; http://www.hivegroup.com/world.html

    That there is friction between immigrants and the indigenous population is hardly surprising. The decision to allow such mass movement was taken without any consultation of the electorate by either of the two major parties, it being achieved by stealth rather than by degree.

    The non-enforcement of current, and still valid immigration controls being deliberately ignored by totally inept politicians and government officials, – the very people who are supposed to protect the population, from such impending disasters.

    As a previous commenter mentioned, all this was inflicted on this country while we were still recovering from the privations of WWII – we still had food rationing until 1954! The government – like the abusive parent, – promising much, but delivering little, saw fit to make far reaching decisions regarding the future of the UK. As a nation we were politically naive.

    That the question of immigration never appeared on any party prospectus or manifesto, and was never ever voted on, was all part of the general deceit, that is, until it was too late. When the more aware saw what was happening, they were immediately tarred with the racist brush, and denied even a rational hearing on the matter of immigration from the old Commonwealth, Enoch Powell being a notable victim.

    The matter erupted again when the EU declared a open border policy, further encouraging ever more immigrants from places few had ever heard of, or had little connection with the UK. Of course they came for two reasons – a totally failed immigration control, and a most generous welfare system.

    In consequence we are now inundated, by immigrants which even the Home Office admits little knowledge of knowing just how many there are. Infrastructure and services are overwhelmed, and the system – if we had an even moderately honest administration, – would admit to being close to total breakdown.

    We now have, in effect a collection of people here, rather than a cohesive community, or even a nation. Rather in the manner of folk at a rail terminus or a bus station being described as a ‘collection or maybe a gathering’. At least in the USA you do still have some sense of ‘Nation’…

    That many of the older generation feel betrayed, in a very real sense of the word, – is hardly surprising. Our culture and traditions have all but disappeared, to be replaced by a mish-mash of pseudo traditions such as Kwanzaa, which baffle the immigrants almost as much as us.

    That the Muslim ‘community’ sees an opportunity to make a play for ever more power is hardly surprising, we must seem the most gullible fools to them.

    Perhaps the above may give you a better understanding of some of the feelings that currently abound, and perhaps it will be apparent why such parties as the BNP and UKIP exist. For sure neither of the current two ‘contenders’ have either the will or the wit to resolve the problem, all they will do is to prevaricate, in the hope that it may resolve itself…

  26. Fulham: You are correct 5% for the BNP in the Euro 2004. I was thinking national elections. While hardly a mandate or an example of widespread sentiment, more significant than I thought.

    However, I must assure you that my name-calling here is very adult, not childish. I reserve my childish name-calling for special occassions.

    Ernest: Interesting points. I just feel the solution will come more readily from within the more traditional parties than the fringe. Look at the Greens – raising ruckus surely, but real environmental reform requires the majors.

  27. Thanks for the interview, DSD/Nigel. I’m working my way through it bit by bit.
    Must admit though, I’m feeling apathetic about politics. I don’t think there’s a hope in hell of either UKIP or BNP ever winning more than a few seats in Parliament brfore it’s way too late.
    I actually think that 65 years of peacetime has blunted us as a nation to the realities of the world. We’ve totally forgotten that freedom has to be fought hard for, and that tyrants and dictators are always waiting for their chance to oppress nations. We will sleepwalk into tyranny without a whimper. Only when it is truly hurting each and every one of us, will we wake up and realise that we should have resisted while it was still in its early stages. Look at Zimbabwe for a good example. The trouble is, socialism "sounds nice" to people. Who, on the face of it, doesn’t want "equality" etc? Only once it has a nation hard in its grip can the majority wake up and see it for what it truly is, and by that stage it’s far too late, and military coups/ civil wars are the only way out. We’ve been there before, and we just never learn.

  28. I see Eastern Europeans, Lithuanians, Estonians, Hungarians, all eagerly embracing the EU, anxiously wanting to be part of it. And I think, bloody hell, the very people who have only just stepped out of Stalin’s shadow, the same people who risked their lives standing up to Soviet tanks in 1991 – surely they of all people can see the danger? But they don’t even care. They don’t even think of the EU long-term, or see its policies, they don’t care – all they think of is short-term economic prosperity. EU = loadsa money for their countries.

  29. Mahons,

    The traditional parties have long betrayed their core supporters, much as they have done in the US, but here we have even less democratic input than you do.

    Somehow our political establishment feels it beneath them to explain their policies at election time, and that we should have faith in their collective judgement, and allow them the freedom to be ‘proactive’. Power without responsibility is a dreadfully addictive drug…

    Problem is they have betrayed the trust of the electorate, time after time they have made bad decisions, – to the extent that it amounts to a betrayal, one could almost say it was deliberate destruction, and all in the slavish adherence to party dogma. ‘Never mind the country, it’s the Party that matters’.

    You have the same problem, but you have a few more controls on the power of the Executive, so perhaps it isn’t quite at the stage that the UK is at.

    Our two major parties and the crossbred Liberal Dems do not deserve another chance, they are congenital failures, and should be seen as such. Perhaps a coalition of well qualified and properly elected candidates might be the answer.

  30. Fulham:
    Getting back to Nigel Farage, when you wrote that UKIP thinks that leaving the EU is the most important thing & nothing else counts……is his real failure.
    The EU is his safe hobby-horse.

    Here is a direct quote from his Surrey Newsletter, dated Spring 2006: (when I WAS a member)

    "As we all know, the question of immigration is a delicate one to say the least (and) UKIP is probabley very wise to stay out of this labyrinth. Were UKIP to venture into this very dangerous area of debate, we might easily be condemmed, by a grateful media & political establishment, as racist". Unquote.

    Hardly the words of a party that hopes to win the hearts and minds of a population who think immigration IS THE big issue of the day!

    Someone said that ‘UKIP was the BNP in Blazers’.

    I don’t think so…

  31. Im also having difficulties playing the interview.

    There can be only one – ukip of the BNP. We are fighting against time (Well, the BNP are, technically UKIP doesnt mind if the natives of this island are replaced by different workers) And ukip is slowing the BNP’s advance, while slipping back itself.

    The Green arrow is absolutely right and certainly doesn’t ‘damn himself’. He hit the nail on the head.

  32. Bernard,

    That was then. This is now. As you heard, he wasnt exactly subtle in his condemnation of the multicultural agenda, and UKIP are being extremely forthright on immigration issues right now. Plus I thought personally he made some very good points about the major differences between the two parties that go beyond ‘race and nation’ as well – the BNP would like everyone to think that UKIP are holding them back in some fashion or that UKIP is ‘State-run’ and other such nonsense but the truth is that both parties must stand or fall on their own merits. Simple as.

    I read a study (the main thrust of which is the same silly argument that UKIP and the BNP are both cut from the same cloth) which included the raw data from the London Mayoral elections on 1st and 2nd preferences. What stood out was that nearly half of 1st Preference BNP voters voted UKIP as their 2nd preference, but only a small fraction of UKIP 1st Preference voters voted BNP as theirs. That says a lot to me about how the BNP has a much greater attachment to UKIP than UKIP does to the BNP…

  33. And thats why farage has to obfuscate. Nick Griffin – and the BNP’s – appeal is from telling it straight. We are starting from a position of strength. You have seen us fracture off our loony fringe, with things such as the bpp and then the nnp, ad nauseum.

    But UKIP is straddling divides, just like the conservatives. The harm it does us is it attracts well meaning people who agree with us but are desperate to avoid associations to protect their businesses interests or whatever from the far left and the complicit media, and the harm that does the country is that we only have a short time frame to get things turned around before we cross the social event horizon, or should i say rubicon.

    UKIP works best as a one issue pressure group. But you have the whole spectrum from socially right wing tories to anti EU lefty liberals in there. Farage is either going to have to forge them down the average of all those policies, losing the extremities and resembling an anti eu conservative party, or, he is going to have to choose one side.

    If he goes left wing/liberal than that’s game over, and if he goes right wing then he is squabbling with us, harming us both even more than now and if he does win and if the party isnt an establishment prop then the party is going to face the same media hostility as us now but with no foundations – and you can bet that UKIP will then shimmy over to the left until it becomes meaningless.

    We have limited time. We have to get this right for our children. It behoves us to stand back and realise that this isn’t a game and that if don’t steer our own good ship away from the harbour of hell no one else will.

  34. Ernest

    Asylum seekers come here for the benefits, EU migrants and others from Latin America (and there are many) come here to work – because there is work and a lot of it. Where I work there are 20 South American cleaning staff and I doubt any of them have work permits – however they fulfil a role.

    They are playing a clever game and one which the larger parties need to grasp or we will go the same route as in other European countries which have developed hard line right wing fascist styled parties and or christian hard right parties. None of these parties bode well for the future though they played a significant role in some elcetions in pushing the mainstream to address immigration so can be useful. We need to address them in debate not name calling. We need to get THAT right for our chilrden. The BBC showed images of Nick Griffin the other day stating his claim to this country by pointing at his skin. That is not the future i or anyone else should want.

  35. DV, would you mind this country became mostly and then eventually all black and/or all muslim?

    Because *that’s the way its going* They *breed like bunnies* and we are *being replaced*. Do you even deny any of those facts? Do you? No one sensible does, they just don’t talk of it for fear of being branded ‘racist’ by lesser men than them.

    People who wilfully ignore the obvious are not men they are mice and make my physically sick. There can be no greater cowardice than instructing your own eyes to see only what it is comfortable for your body to believe when your heart knows better. Its just like being a drug addict, addicted to ones own finely combed view of the world based upon obviously false and garishly coloured precepts provided by your masters and reinforced by fools – addicted to keeping your head firmly down. What is it that Enoch Powells much beloved classics teacher, Housman, scornfully denounced but the belief;

    "That the fashion of the present, unlike all fashions herefore, will endure perpetually and that its own flimsy tabernacle of second-hand opinions is a habitation for everlasting"

    Ha! that reminds me of a poem. Let me go see;

    If you can keep your head when all about you
    Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
    If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
    But make allowance for their doubting too;

    If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
    Or being lied about, don’t deal in lies,
    Or being hated, don’t give way to hating,
    And yet don’t look too good, nor talk too wise:

    If you can dream – and not make dreams your master;
    If you can think – and not make thoughts your aim;
    If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
    And treat those two impostors just the same;

    If you can bear to hear the truth you’ve spoken
    Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
    Or watch the things you gave your life to broken,
    And stoop and build ’em up with wornout tools:

    If you can make one heap of all your winnings
    And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
    And lose, and start again at your beginnings
    And never breathe a word about your loss;

    If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
    To serve your turn long after they are gone,
    And so hold on when there is nothing in you
    Except the Will which says to them: ‘Hold on!’

    If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
    Or walk with kings – nor lose the common touch,
    If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,
    If all men count with you, but none too much;

    If you can fill the unforgiving minute
    With sixty seconds’ worth of distance run –
    Yours is the Earth and everything that’s in it,
    And – which is more – you’ll be a Man my son!

  36. DSD:

    Yes, the quote was over a year ago, and in politics even a week is a long time.
    The fact that the BNP % UKIP have more in commom with each other than they do with all the other parties, is no bad thing for democracy. (eg. where there is no BNP candidate, most can vote UKIP).
    At least the electorate have a two-horse choice, both of whom see the EU as the malignant cancer at the root of it all.
    I like Griffin because he is a really tough politician, and they are a rare breed these days. At least you know where you are with him, and you cannot say that of ANY of the other three parties.

    As someone wrote earlier, if Griffin and the BNP are wrong, and their grim forcast for white Christians in Europe is just racial scare-mongering, then, as a party, they will simply fade into obscurity.

  37. BNP Member:

    Love the Housman quote. It sums up so perfectly something that is so wrong with many people, particularly liberals: they cannot really conceive of the possibility of the world changing, and certainly not if that change is for the worse.

    Except for global warming, of course, and paranoid fears about the "new world order"…

  38. does anyone honestly think the BNPs inherent racism and anti-semitism has just vanished?

  39. "does anyone honestly think the BNPs inherent racism and anti-semitism has just vanished?"

    I don’t but I suppose as time goes on there are some who will take it at face value and support it. On the other hand I suspect that most ho support it do because they kno exactly what it really stands for.

  40. Daytripper – Neither BNP or Respect have shed their racism and anti semitism, no. I came to realise they are two sides of the same coin about a year ago. I understood the immigration issue driving people towards the BNP but its clear they thrive on hatred alone and are deeply anti semitic etc just like Respect. BNP has an issue with hard working foreigners filling jobs Brits dont want and making their way up the ladder, proud to be British and play a part (like my family) – all that ‘breeding’ and ‘multiplying’ rubbish is an excuse for pure hatred. People should draw parallels to those two rather than UKIP since Respect play the same game.

  41. We have had jewish councilors for years.

    My last GF was Jewish, and autistic.

    If you want anti semitism, check out the groups that split from us over that issue, such as the NNP and the BPP.

  42. i hear what you are saying alison, but i dont consider them from the same line of thought.

    fair enough you can argue that they draw from the same well but the BNP is genuinely anti-semitic, with a distrust for jewsih people that harks back to the 3rd reich and beyond. respect are anti-zionist, which is ultra-religious nationalism.

    its a line that many people want blurred and zionists have done an incredible job in ensuring that criticism directed at them is wrapped up in the anti-semitism of history. this does more harm than good as it only serves to downplay genuine anti-semitism. even richard littlejohns populist tryst managed to wrap up anti-zionism with genuine anti-semitism.

    noone ever seems to dwell on the fact that many anti-zionists are infact jewish. though they are belittled as "self-haters".

  43. DT: While some anti-zionists are in fact Jewish, and some are accused unfairly of being self-haters, there is also a lot of anti-semitism hiding in the so-called anti-Zionist movements.

  44. Daytripper – the open hatred for Jews in Respect and from many muslims is pretty clear. They wouldnt differentiate along the lines you state. Ask them about the Holocaust!

  45. p.s i dont buy all that zionism versus anti semitism shit btw. And the BNP are anti semitic BNP Member. You and Respect = same

  46. Ok yeah, sure. Fine, i hate Jews, you got me. The reason she is my ex is because i burnt her up in the oven with all the other spastics and now im with a nice healthy Aryan chick.

  47. DT: While some anti-zionists are in fact Jewish, and some are accused unfairly of being self-haters, there is also a lot of anti-semitism hiding in the so-called anti-Zionist movements.

    i wouldnt disagree with you. and only demonstrates how complex an issue it is.

  48. Mahons

    Just like his revealing description of Desmond Tutu on that thread when he got annoyed.

  49. Careful BNP Member or we’ll have to send around a nice Jamaican nurse to take a look at your sore head πŸ™‚

  50. I swear, she said her first word when she was 17 and id vote for her over most normal people i meet. She knew where her blind spots were while you lot think your clever because your so blind.

    I think talking to people such as colm shows the futility of most words. the vast majority of people don’t speak to inform, they speak to preen themselves in public, like a cat. I guess that’s why most people in any given group are dull; Once you’ve seen one cat stick its head between its legs, you’ve seen them all.

  51. Colm: Perhaps the repeated striking by BNP member of his head upon the monitor caused a brain injury. Well, no, that can’t be it.

  52. Aileen/Mahons

    The 3 of us are just cats with our heads between our legs licking our backsides. A more honest and clean activity than much of what BNP member tries to whitewash.

  53. *Bangs head against monitor again!

    Maybe i was harsh there, i just feel that politics is very important and that silly things were being said. It was also Alison that was saying silly things – For example I spent some time on the respect forums to see what it was like and im not kidding, if you could compare that with our forum you would be amazed.

    Ok just to prove my point, i found the respect forum.

    http://michaellee.modernwriters.org/

    And under the board headings;

    Israel
    All matters regarding the Jewish, apartheid, terrorist State.

    And

    Zionism

    here are some of the topics for discussion (Their capitals, not mine);

    CHILDREN ‘RITUALLY SLAUGHTERED’ BY ISRAELI TROOPS

    GENOCIDE DECLARED ‘KOSHER’ IN ISRAEL

    WHAT ABOUT THE PROTOCOLS?

    THE ROLE OF ZIONISM IN THE HOLOCAUST

    The Zionist-Semitist Holocaust Story is Unfounded

    Etc.

    And i gotta tell you, we just dont think like that in the BNP. I know that’s the image with which we have been portrayed, but its not true.

    So sorry colm, i dont know why i picked you out really. these silly accusations annoy me when they are not true and i hear them over and over.

    The truth is that I *Like* the Jews and Israel (Search my blog for ‘Jew’) as do many of the bloggers on my sidebar, but anyway the point is that the BNP is a nationalist party and has no particular position on israel or jews – its all a red herring distracting people from what we are actually about.

  54. BNP member

    Does your party still have a policy of not allowing some British citizens to join purely because they have the ‘wrong’ skin colour.

  55. It was also Alison that was saying silly things

    Get lost. After your downright stupid and soporific number at 1:18pm – in which you state people who dont agree with your broadstroke racism on blacks and muslims make you feel sick?

  56. And i gotta tell you, we just dont think like that in the BNP. I know that’s the image with which we have been portrayed, but its not true.

    Rubbish! Griffin has never withdrawn his views on the Holocaust.

  57. Jesus Wept?

    And well he might as the old grandfather used to say.

    Why would "the tanned" want to join the BNP? I mean how does one tan under a rock?

  58. Well on a serious point. BNP member has answered my question. A Party that considers people by skin colour alone has nothing to offer any country except hatred and bitterness and a dehumanising attitude that can only ultimately lead to disaster. If you cannot judge people according to the many hundreds of traits that make up an individual’s worth and you reduce them to nothing than a pigment then you don;t deserve to be considered seriously in any political sense.

  59. I did answer your question, yes; Skin colour has absolutely nothing to do with the entry requirement for our party, and you betray your motive for asking in what mahons considers to be a devastating reply;

    Skin colour is completely irrelevant to everything apart from what factor you need to slather on in the sun. And colm knows this, which is why he tried to set up a very hollow straw man. It failed but he carried on anyway – having no other tune to play – Which gave mahons the false impression that he is in possession of a devastating intellect.

  60. BNP you got beaten like a red-headed step child and you don’t even have the sense to realise it. You claim mainstream values but the fringe beliefs come out in the end. Cheers.

  61. BNP member

    A few weeks ago another member of your party said on this site that there was a colour bar to joining the BNP and then he went into a convoluted explanation about whether or not people could join if they were ‘half’ or ‘quarter’ white . He wasn’t quite sure of the rules and all I could think of was how repulsive it was to have any race level qualification rules. I took your answer about ‘tanned’ members to be a smart way of admitting that you only allow whites but a suntan tint would be OK because at least under that darker colour is still a white person. I genuinely did not what the policy was. If it is the case that the BNP seriously allows anyone legally resident in the UK to join who supports their policies regardless of race faith or national origin then I admit they do not merit the criticism I mentioned above, but I stand by my belief that policies based on race or judging people by singular physical characteristics are repulsive and utterly wrong.

  62. sentence above should read .. "I genuinely did not know what the membership policy of the BNP is…

  63. Well i guess any differences in what we think is right would just add to the rich tapestry of diverse beliefs in the country formerly known as Great Britain and should be celebrated anyway.

    In fact we have a policy similar to that – now state enshrined – of Native Americans on their own dusty reservations. Namely, that they elect from their own to manage their own.

    Its a funny thing, but i find i have quite an affinity with Native Americans, another group of people dispossessed of their homeland. Incidentally Colm, if i were born as my parents were passing through an Indian reservation, do you think that on some deep level you would be talking to a Native American now, or perhaps on a superficial level – or perhaps you consider that a silly question, not worthy of a serious answer.

    Listen to "The chief". The artist, he say; "A procession of elders deserves respect" (MP3)

  64. Here’s a monument being built by native americans to commemorate their past culture;

    http://www.crazyhorse.org/

    Underneath the carving, on the mountain, it is to say "My land is where my people are buried". Chief crazy horse is captured in the pose as he is saying it, with his finger pointing to his peoples land as he was challenged by an American officer asking him "Where are your lands now?"

    Ive been there and it is loads better than mount Rushmore about 30 miles away;

    Mount Rushmore

    The best thing about mount Rushmore is actually the Greek style courtyards and architecture leading up to the viewing platform, which i found quite inspiring.

  65. Call him down for his Party’s membership policy by all means, but you guys just arent listening to BNP Member when he tells you *his* personal views (not to be confused with those of his Party). Mahons, your idiotic comment about ‘finding its own level’ shows your total sense of humour bypass quite frankly. The fact that you couldnt recognise when the guy was parodying your own stereotype of BNP members says it all…

    And Colm,

    "I stand by my belief that policies based on race or judging people by singular physical characteristics are repulsive and utterly wrong."

    Looking forward to your forthright condemnation of all forms of positive discrimination, the CRE, the Black Police Officers Association, the Muslim Council of Britain, the NAACP, Blink…or doesnt it count when the perps are on the darker side of pale.

  66. Colm:

    Why should the BNP be obliged to let in non-whites? Aren’t there enough groups in the UK looking after their interests (CRE, MCB, MAB, IHRC, not to mention a biased education system and media, and all three big political parties)? Why shouldn’t the natives have an organisation to look after their particular interests?

    Alison/Colm/Mahons:

    Do any of you have any criticisms of the BNP to offer BNP Member beyond unsubstantiated claims of "you’re evil/you’re a racist/you hate Jews", and other assorted instances of personal abuse? What precisely is wrong with the BNP’s position on, well, anything really? And what has BNP Member personally done to demonstrate his alleged fascist/racist/anti-Semitic credentials? Because I have to say, in nothing that he has written, here or elsewhere, that I have seen has he conformed to any of the labels that you have sought to attach to him.

  67. BNP Member

    If you are not personally anti-semitic or racist (and were using ironically otherwise inflammatory language), its unclear why you are aligned to a party that has unsuccessfully and unconvincingly tried to shed its previous image. Not many in the UK really believe the BNP has reinvented itself and your party is doomed to electoral failure for the forseeable future as Britons will continue to shy away from extremist politics of whatever hue. You will perhaps get more support if the major parties continue not to address the EU and immigration questions and the ways these affect the bread and butter issues that most people vote on like health, education , crime, national and social security. But there will be no groundswell in your favour. UKIP’s focus is too narrow and they are as unlikely to factor electorally.

    Maybe its time for a new Nationalist party that isnt so exclusive to many in the UK who aren’t white or native born but who nonetheless care about this country and where its heading

  68. Interesting comments on this post which is good but I would like to know how people feel about the UKIP more than the BNP. (Maybe ATW will do an interview with Nick Griffin some day and challenge him just as we did Nigel Farage)

    It strike me that the UKIP does have merit, although the War on Terror seems to have thrown them a tad. Nigel’s answer on my Northern Ireland questions were excellent, a great change from the drivel churned out by the Big Three. Could the UKIP make a breakthrough, I wonder? And if not, why not?

  69. FR – i didnt state that. I said the party is. Like Respect the other anti semitic racist party. I pointed out Nick Griffin has never denied this view and BNPM went into his own views which are not the partys.

    Who/what do you mean by ‘natives’, please define

  70. BNP Member,

    Sure – but I would approach it in exactly the same way we did this one. Namely we open a thread for questions to be put to Mr Griffin and one of the ATW writers conducts it in the same way as this one.

  71. I have given UKIP the odd vote in my time.

    Although in general I tend to vote for (or specifically against) the candidate rather than the party

  72. As regards the question of UKIP, which David referred us back to, I have to say that I am, and remain, among those who have been unable to listen to this interview, so am not sure what Farage said about in response to DSD’s questions. However, I would say that I did vote for UKIP in the 2004 Euros, and that I have considerable sympathy with the general tenour of their beliefs. But I remain sceptical in respect of whether they are really anything more than an anti-EU pressure group, and whether they really care about the threats posed to Britain by immigration in general, and Islam in particular.
    I also have some doubts about UKIP’s ability to achieve genuine electoral success. While they scored a notable success in the 2004 Euros, and have so far outscored the BNP in general elections, they have not shown any real potential for the making of advancements in their popular support. For example, their support in local elections has been less than negligible. It is my belief that the BNP has more chance of achieving real power in this country, in terms of winning council and parliamentary seats, than UKIP does. UKIP’s implosion in the European Parliament (is it three MEPs down, of the 12, so far?) does not fill me with confidence either. And, as BNP Member pointed out somewhere above, their party seems to be a broadbrush coalition of genuine conservatives, libertarians, and complete nutters.

    Also, I like the idea of an interview with Nick Griffin. Always assuming, that I can actually hear it…

    Alison:

    "Native" means what the equal opportunities forms that I keep having to fill out describe as "White British". That may not be politically correct, but it is accurate. Just as the oak tree is native to these islands, and the bamboo tree is not, so white people are native, and non-whites are not. That is a matter of fact.

  73. ‘Interesting comments on this post which is good but I would like to know how people feel about the UKIP more than the BNP’

    I don’t have much faith in UKIP, they seem to have an incredible amount of infighting for such a small party and as local elections demonstrate, almost no real base.

    That said I will probably vote for them at the next European elections if only to signal that I want the other parties to become more sceptical about the EU.

  74. It depends on the definition of native you use. For me native means being born there. So Madonna is not a native here but Lenny Henry is.

  75. I tend to agree with Ross on UKIP – too much infighting. That seems to have reduced since Farage took the leadership, but they’ve failed to translate that settled period into progress.

    I believe UKIP, if it is to become a serious political party, needs to work harder to woo disaffected Tories from the Conservative party. They did well to snaffle a couple of Tory peers, but they have failed to make inroads with Tory MP’s since then – yet there must be plenty of backbenchers who are alienated by what has become of their party under Cameron.

    While Cameron attempts to pull the rug from under NuLabour’s feet by muscling in on their policies, UKIP should be doing the same with the Conservatives.

    For instance, as Cameron pledges support and expansion for city academies, UKIP should pledge support and expansion for grammar schools.

    While Cameron pledges to uphold Gordon Brown’s public sector expansion, UKIP should be pledging to reduce it.

    That sort of thing. It’s not hard to do, but it does require hard work and effort – I’m not convinced that there is enough energy in the UKIP leadership to apply that effort.

  76. Dr K.T. Rajan, for UKIP.

    Just read his CV, and letter to voters.
    As a native from India, he says that mass immigration from Eastern Europe is the big problem.
    No mention of immigration from anywhere else!
    Wonder why?

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