179 3 mins 9 yrs

Someone once said there is a difference between the first day of Spring and the first Spring day. With snow falling softly out side my window, that seem very true today. But the flowers are on their way, the grass will grow green and the streams and brooks will fill with the melted mountain run-off and swell their banks.

I like all the seasons, but I do look forward to the promise that Spring brings with its warm breeze, its wet fields and its muddy paths. I tilt towards Spring like the Earth tilts towards the sun and I dream of longer daylight and a warm evening breeze.

The newspapers today have reports of the baseball players who will now be migrating north to begin the baseball season. The newspapers today have reports of Easter Egg hunting locations for this weekend. The newspapers today have reports of farming and gardening tips. And the newspapers today have reports of the National Rifle Association targeting the citizens of Newtown, CT with robo-calls asking households to oppose gun control.

I hope there is some clarification that this is not deliberate. I certainly would agree that they have the right to do it, but I would think people of common decency would think that it is not a right thing to do. A few short months after that tragic day makes such a campaign rather obscene. It will be Spring in Newtown, but there will be empty swings in the park. It will be Spring in Newtown, but there will be less fathers taking their children fishing. It will be Spring in Newtown, but there will be small sneakers still sitting by the door. It will be Spring in Newtown, but there will be balls sitting in the garage, jump ropes that remain hanging on a wall, and butterfly nets that remain in the attic.

We have failed our children as a nation, again. Our modest national attempts at reducing gun violence have not even really been attempted. We long for Spring yet can not find it in our collective hearts to take even the small steps of a baby lamb. We may soon feel the physical warmth of Spring, but are we not still in a moral Winter of our own making.

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179 thoughts on “You Can’t Hold Back The Spring

  1. To paraphrase Golda Meir, we will have proper gun law in the US when the Gun Nuts love their children more than they love their guns. ( not to be confused with sane gun owners )

    This is a mass mental illness issue as much as it is anything, as one can see by the things that are said on these pages, or as said in the frightened, shivering expanse that is modern America.

    As bad as gun murders are, they’re not the only problem. Gun suicides represent about half of the gun deaths in the US, or more. An awful lot of those deaths are boys.

    I’ll not soon forget an article in a recent NY Times about a rash of gun suicides in Wyoming involving teenage boys. The father of one of the boys who killed himself said that he remained a staunch advocate for unfettered gun rights. Because they’re needed for self defense. I swear he said that.

  2. “I’ll not soon forget an article in a recent NY Times about a rash of gun suicides in Wyoming involving teenage boys. The father of one of the boys who killed himself said that he remained a staunch advocate for unfettered gun rights. Because they’re needed for self defense. I swear he said that.”

    It’s very interesting that over here too we are seeing more young suicides and an increase in cases of depression.

    Suicide ‘now the biggest killer of young men in Britain’

  3. //The newspapers today have reports of the baseball players who will now be migrating north to begin the baseball season//

    Speaking of which – here in Europe the storks have just migrated in from Africa (what, welcome immigrants arriving from Africa?) expecting to find the usual damp but mild weather and not the Artic conditions they arrived in. Hardly a warm welcome, human Africans are probably saying: I told you so.

    Now it is apparently too cold for them to get on with their mating activities and building nests etc. (seriously) If they can’t mate, they will hardly be able to bring new babies, and that will in turn give Allan even more headaches about Aryan population replacement rates. Some of the birds, ornithologists tell us, even turned round and flew back, some even apparently detoured to Syria to warm up. Others tried Cyprus to avail of the vast volumes of hot air there.

    Now there are fears that the young European chicks will be hatched too late for them to take enough flying lessons to prepare for the return flight in the autumn.
    Some caring families have therefore put blow-air heaters under trees and up in church spires so that the cocks will not be afraid to take out their, well whatever cocks have (men?) without it first becoming rigid, not with fire but with ice.

    With bleak skies full of rigid cocks and frigid hens, few Europeans have a spring in their step this year.

  4. we also have reports out of Mayor Bloombergs own mouth that he will be spending 12 Million dollars on ad campaigns against any Republican voting against the Gun Ban, but that’s different. Right?

  5. How much did the NRA spend?

    And you have supported the ” right ” of rich people to outspend the rest of us on political issues, so you now reap what you sew.

  6. not 12 million, and he can spend whatever he wants. Just pointing out selective outrage.

  7. The NRA and its allied PAC spent $15 million last year. They didn’t lay a glove on Obama and his allies.

    I support caps on political spending, no matter who does it.

  8. that’s a violation of free speech. I support Bloomberg being able to spend his money any way he wants, his spending is directed at specific candidates, and cost far more than the robo call in one state. Plus his ads are nation wide.

  9. Beautiful wordsmithing, Mahons.

    Unfortunately we’re faced with a country full of men who’ve become, not unreasonably, afraid of further government overreach. This particular issue, coming at this specific time, doesn’t lend itself to reasonable debate or calm consensus no matter how many small children died in Newtown.

    These contrary people do have a point. No matter how tight we bind certain regulations, the criminal class and those who fall under the Newtown killer’s insane wire will never be caught or restrained by any of the well-intentioned laws under proposal.

    No doubt we have too many guns in circulation with no serious means to roll back the huge tide of arms or ammunition saturating our country. I think we need do something, but I can’t see what that might be that wouldn’t brook constitutional rights or illegally shutter all arms and ammunition manufacturers.

    I think we need to do something to curb this insane amount of gun death and injury, I’m just not sure how we’re going to get it done.

    The NRA’s just another self-interested lobbying group taking advantage of politicized morons. I would hope that most conservative gun owners would disavow and repudiate their insensitive campaign in Newtown.

  10. The NRA is an anti American organization, a small, frightened, vicious group representing the worst of us.

  11. We should get rid of the NRA as a lobby that constantly oversteps the limits of lobbying to the point of inciting the weak minded. Close it down and investigate its executives.

    The arms manufacturers need more regulation for the common good.

    The Constitution refers to the right to bear “arms” – that is the right to a peashooter to a bazooka, so there is much latitude for interpretation.

    Our schools should have classes on the danger of all types of arms. Get the message to the young and we will have a safer country.

    The right to life and safety trumps gun owning rights in every case.

  12. Daphne – Thanks. I don’t buy into their argumetn about criminals. We have laws against murder, rape, assault, robbery, auto theft, burglary, and we don’t abandon those laws because criminals won’t pay attention to them.

    I have no problem with people having guns, but I do have a problem wit hcertian types of guns and people who try to water down any reasoanble regulations for lega lgun ownership.

    The NRA doesn’t support its members (ma and pa shotgun) who are more sensible. It is a public relations firm for the gun industry which just wants to sell sell sell.

  13. The NRA crossed a bright line of decency by their sending harassing phone calls to the parents of murdered children in Newtown.

    They are criminals, fanatics, or both.

  14. “Our modest national attempts at reducing gun violence ”

    dishonest and false premise because gun violence is not perpetuated by law abiding gun owners and corralling law abiding gun owners is not an honest attempt to reduce gun violence.

    but don’t worry – unfortunately, it seems there is always another crisis to exploit…. another opportunity for the Left to write feature false sentimental tripe, hoping to move minds with propaganda.

  15. Patty – I don’t think you have the standing to challenge anyone’s credibility given your repeated posting of false and inaccurate stories here.

  16. mahons has explained his position many times.

    He’s expressed his support for would be crime victims who have used legal home guns to send intruders to hell where they belong. I have too.

    Folks like you and Troll don’t really read what anyone says, you only skim, that’s why you don’t know what anyone here stands for. Especially if they ever support an Obama position. Then they are statists and marxists and communists and all those things.

  17. Mahons and Phantom: i have a mutual lack of respect for your “standing” on the gun control issue – and even less respect for your general political positions as you both billed yourselves in the past as
    “possible Republicans” when you are in fact statist progressives.

    At the bare minimum, come clean with your political persuasion and stop blowing smoke with “I dont have anything against gun ownership”

  18. Mahons: “your repeated posting of false and inaccurate stories here.” a totally inaccurate lie of yours which I refute although I am sure you will rinse and repeat as it is the Alinsky way.

    and in addition to not knowingly and willfully promoting a false hood, I don’t believe have never stooped to the bare knuckle false sentimentality of your propaganda in your post above.

  19. You’re a nanny statist!

    Aren’t you a drug prohibitionist, along with the rest of the nannies here?

  20. Unlike both you and Mahons, Phantom, I do have other more important and certainly more interesting things to do than post comments on the internet so I bid you adieu.

    Speak truths and profundities falsehoods and inanities amongst yourselves.

  21. Colm

    It may well be. I have seen of 32,000 gun deaths a year in the US. I don’t verify but I have seen it.

    32,000 x 33 = 1,056,000 deaths

    Gun homicides are only part of the problem. There are also many gun suicides ( more than the homicides I think ) and there are many gun accidents ( many gun owners don’t really know how to use them, as many states don’t require any training ). Also of course gun ” accidents ” when children find unsecured guns in the house.

    It is a plausible number.

  22. Patty – among your less credible moments is the claim that I have billed myself as a “possible Republican”. I have never done so. I have in fact voted for Republicans at various levels of government from President to local town government. I was a registered Independent for many years and registered as a Democrat a few years ago. You can not find any place here where I have ever billed myself as a possible Republican.

    In general there really is nothign wrong with your posts or comments except that they lack merit, facts, grace and logic.

  23. Colm – That figure likely includes suicides and accidents in addition to homicides. One would have to check the statistics to get a full breakdown, but certainly the number would suggest that smarter and better efforts at gun control, gun safety and dealing with mental illness should be an ongoing thing that we wish to address.

  24. Patty is one nasty piece of work. I’ve never seen her express a generous word to anyone who disagrees with her. She’s a daughter of the poisonous Ayn Rand all right.

  25. “…there will be empty swings in the park. It will be Spring in Newtown, but there will be less fathers taking their children fishing. It will be Spring in Newtown, but there will be small sneakers still sitting by the door. It will be Spring in Newtown, but there will be balls sitting in the garage, jump ropes that remain hanging on a wall, and butterfly nets that remain in the attic. We have failed our children as a nation, again…”

    dishonest sentimentalism. dishonest because inherent in this post is the implication that with the recent Democrat proposals for gun regulations this type of murder would be prevented.

    but there is nothing in the Democrat proposals that would have prevented the empty swings, the small sneakers sitting by the doors, the unused butterfly nets in the attics….nothing.

    but like other Democrats, Mahons uses emotional and sentimental arguments to push regulation.

    and Im the “nasty” one?

  26. Patty – Yes, you are.

    Of course you are free to advise if you think robocalls by the NRA to households in Newtown is a good thing.

  27. no, Mahons, Im not the hater here.

    im pointing out that “empty swings, no fathers taking children fishing, small sneakers sitting by a door” is dishonest exploitation of a terrible murder. It is “standing on the graves of children” to push your agenda.

    NOTHING in the Democrat proposals would have stopped it.

    Our country didn’t fail anybody but the Progressives when we rejected the exploitive manipulation of the recent gun control legislation proposed

  28. Patty – There are in fact actual graves. These graves are actually occupied by the remains of children. It is not exploitation but rather putting out the facts of the cost of failing to properly and wisely address the issue of gun violence in this country.

    The current proposals are so water-down as to be meaningless. And I blame the Democrats, the President included, for failing to push for smarter and tougher laws and for failing to risk being voted down if need be.

    In the world you would have us live in nothing is done, no action taken, and in fact even existing gun laws should be overturned. In the world you would have us live in gun lobbyists should robocall the town where a tragedy just happened.

    I don’t really blame your type. If there is a rightwing position on an issue you will wait to hear what it is and then parrot it back.

  29. The Democrats stopped leading on this issue the day Bill Clinton declared for president.

    They made a deal with the devil – by expending no real political capital on the issue, they’d increase their Electoral College possibilities in places like NC, VA and the Mountain states.

    It is unforgivable.

  30. Colm –

    It could be true.

    According to the Ann Arbour Chronicle (which may or may not correct), in 2010 there were 11,067 homicides relating to guns and 19,392 suicides. Numbers here.

    The Department of Veterans Affairs reports that, in 2010, 22 Iraq and Afghanistan veterans committed suicide each day. That’s 8030 veteran suicides for the year. Many of those will have been with a firearm, so the total firearm deaths reported above are somewhat skewed.

    The good news is that total firearm deaths will drop massively in a few years time because most of the veterans of recent wars will have all topped themselves.

  31. I do take it back.

    But I restate that she has never once in my reading said any kind generous or humorous word to anyone who she disagrees with. Which is quite unusual here. Even those with the strongest ideologies do tend to reach across the aisle at times.

  32. Oh dear, lets not turn this into one of those threads that end up as a personal slanging match please.

  33. Patty was a liberal, she’s now a conservative. You can’t reach across the aisle more than that.

    Frankly, given the personal, acidic attacks made against her I don’t blame her if she doesn’t feel like getting chummy with some in here.

  34. She sure wasn’t a liberal one day of her life here that I’ve seen.

    She never deviates from script – actually, she did once. But I bet all here have forgotten that one example of statesmanship. But that was long ago.

  35. I was a liberal in the high school days. Lots of people are socialist / liberal during their early days. Before they were mugged by reality as it were.

    But even if you move to a conservative position, as most do, you should still think things through. Anyone who hies to any one party line or doctrine all the time isn’t thinking.

    God gave us brains so that we may think things through for ourselves. And not fall in line with anyone who ever lived, all the time.

  36. Anyway, no-one here in the UK wants to hold back the spring, flipping hell we’d just like to see a glimpse of it 😉

  37. You and me both, Colm. Tonight will be the third in row with freezing temps. I should be wearing shorts by now, instead I’m bundled up in fleece.

    Mahons, as I’ve said before, I think we need to tighten up the background check system, institute mandatory gun training before purchase, severely limit or ban high capacity magazines for rifles and handguns and I’d probably be willing to entertain other commonsense measures.

    So, I wasn’t disagreeing with you. Rather I was stating that I do understand where the obstructionists are coming from and can see their point of view on some gun control issues.

    Totally agree that the NRA is a scummy pro-industry lobbying PAC.

  38. One other item…

    I don’t know if this is true, but someone I was chatting with mentioned that the Newtown shooter had a huge diagram map on his bedroom wall plotting out various kill targets. He was treating it like a game, trying to come up with the highest number of deaths in the shortest amount of time.

    If this is true, I think his mother is culpable and her estate should be sued for every last dime.

  39. Daphne—the person you spoke with might have been referring to the spreadsheets:

    “They don’t believe this was just a spreadsheet. They believe it was a score sheet,” he continued. “This was the work of a video gamer, and that it was his intent to put his own name at the very top of that list. They believe that he picked an elementary school because he felt it was a point of least resistance, where he could rack up the greatest number of kills. That’s what (the Connecticut police) believe.”

    Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/lupica-lanza-plotted-massacre-years-article-1.1291408#ixzz2OgWI3Kb0

  40. Yeah, that sounds right, Mairin. Thanks for digging it up.

    I still think his mother bears a huge amount of responsibility for that mass murder.

  41. “In the world you would have us live in nothing is done, no action taken”

    more show boating….and incorrect.

    what the Dems/Progressives have proposed so far will do nothing to prevent such a mass murder – or even inner city gun murders, black on black, a category entirely ignored by the Dems/Progressives and yet comprising most of the gun murder stats.

    if the Dems/Progressives really want to address these murders than address mental illness, and perhaps violence in video games. if the Dems/Progressives really want to prevent them than armed guards or armed teachers at schools would be a start.

    Pete: good memory. I was a liberal – I voted for CLinton and even Gore in 2000….gulp….embarrassment….gulp…. I was a 2001 Republican. now, I have evolved into a Conservative, limited govt. Tea Partier – I owe my evolution to intellectual honesty and the internet, if anyone’s interested.

  42. there is only one way to mitigate and reduce gun violence, enforce the laws and lock up those that use them in criminal acts.

    The US is divided into 90 Federal Jurisdictions. The Jurisdiction that chicago is in is dead last in prosecuting federal gun law violations, and that more than anything explains why it is the most violent gun crime area of the country.

    More laws mean nothing when bleeding hearts don’t execute them. You reap what you sow, if you allow the laws to go unenforced they won’t be followed.

    It’s that simple.

  43. “More laws mean nothing when bleeding hearts don’t execute them. You reap what you sow, if you allow the laws to go unenforced they won’t be followed.”

    so true. so true. and this is one other thing that leads me to conclude that the Dems/Progressives are only peripherally interested in reducing gun crime, mass murder…their real interest is in disarming the law-abiding public…

  44. The Dems/Progressives would love to spend a ton of money treating mental illness, making comprehensive mental health treatment available to all (not that Newtown’s wealthy shooter needed any financial assistance to obtain the best treatment available), the GOP/Rightwingers don’t want to spend a dime of public money treating mental illness.

    The Dem/Progressives would love to ban all gory shooter games for underage kids, the GOP/Rightwingers (excepting the religious SoCon crew) insist that sort of legislation would infringe on consumer free choice.

    The GOP/Rightwingers constantly vilify public school teachers, consider them stupid beyond belief, accuse them of being trotsky union thugs and assume they’re all vastly unqualified to teach our children. Why in the world would you people even contemplate giving this group of horrible incompetents access to loaded guns in the classroom? Get your story straight, because this counter-meme proposal makes no sense at all to anyone living outside of the Limbaugh/Beck/Townhall mind warp bubble who listens to your constant attacks on public school teachers.

    The black on black murder rate is a national tragedy. I blame LBJ, liberal welfare policy, the disintegration of intact families, systemic racism, lack of good educational opportunities, the drug war, three-strikes-your-out judicial legislation, bad mothers, broken homes, drug addiction, baby daddies rather than responsible fathers, generational poverty, rap music, etc. The list could go on, we all know more than one or two things are responsible for this sad mess.

    What would you propose to decrease gun murder in black america?

  45. The black on black murder rate is a national tragedy. I blame LBJ, liberal welfare policy, the disintegration of intact families, systemic racism, lack of good educational opportunities, the drug war, three-strikes-your-out judicial legislation, bad mothers, broken homes, drug addiction, baby daddies rather than responsible fathers, generational poverty, rap music, etc. The list could go on, we all know more than one or two things are responsible for this sad mess.

    Well said Daphne. But are some of these things symptoms rather than causes? Eg, millions of jobs have been outsourced from USA to China, leaving millions of young men with no prospects of dependable income from work. So they turn to drug dealing and other crime to survive. Not an excuse, but at least part of the explanation for the social melt-down?

  46. I would definitely add outsourced blue collar job demise to part of the mix, Peter. An insightful contribution.

  47. No Kateyo, the majority of schools still call it Easter and most public elementary schools celebrate it with special activities, parades, easter baskets, colored eggs and special candy. All secular in nature, but still observant.

    Good Friday is national school holiday.

  48. you know you’ve mentioned that you gave before.

    First off I asked for nothing, second you have rubbed it in my face that others reached out and you contributed. When someone gives to help someone out, it should be anonymous and from the heart.

    Yours is neither, I want nothing from you except the behavior from you that I don’t exist.

    What I think of you as a person I will not write. Understand though that you offer nothing to anything. Stop mentioning me, and stop commenting about me.

    Are you capable of that? I doubt it.

  49. I did read it, Kateyo! Thought it was well written and brutally honest. A decent assessment of midwestern urban realities.

  50. I have to say this – again –

    It pisses me off when people throw this thing in Troll’s face about contributing to something David set up.

    I have the greatest respect for Daphne and Phantom etc. Daphne especially, as she has a talent on this blog for the written word which, in my opinion, is equalled only by Mahons and Noel Cunningham in its poetry, emotion and interest.

    But when it comes to what was called (by David) Troll-Aid, some on here have held that over Troll, used it as a stick to beat him with.

    The man didn’t ask for the help. He posted about some of the things that were going on in his life, but he didn’t ask for a handout. David offered it. In fact – David didn’t even offer it. He just did it. And he should be commended for it. But the point is – Troll didn’t. He didn’t come on here, virtual-cap in virtual-hand, pan-handling for dollars.

    He was shocked that it had been done, and one only has to read his thread thanking people to see that he – and his family – were genuinely touched by the efforts of everyone here to put differences aside and help someone out.

    I disagree with just about everything Troll posts here (no offence!), but no-one can deny or ignore his obvious love for his wife and girls. That, at least, I admire him for.

    And who amongst us would deny a fellow human-being a helping hand when they’re down? If it was your friend, and you gave him a few dollars/pounds/Euros – and let’s face it – no-one bankrupted themselves in helping – would you then point out to them, each time you conversed, that you had given them $20 or whatever? No, of course you wouldn’t, cos that would make you a shitty friend.

    Please don’t stop criticising Troll’s opinions. Please don’t stop questioning every story he posts here. Please don’t stop using reason to counter his wilder claims.

    But please stop punishing him for something that was done for him, not by him.

  51. The article says that Philly has a white population of 37 pct. its hard to believe that its that many.

    It seems like they all moved out. There isnt much life in the downtown area as compared with NYC, Boston, Chicago.

    NYC managed to avoid major race riots in the 1960s. Philly didn’t. It takes a long time to recover from things like that, if you ever do.

  52. Phantom: “But I bet all here have forgotten that one example of statesmanship.”

    oh, please.

    you don’t leave me with any option save black and white, unflinching declarations of reality.

    I am left with no choice; I debate with you at the level you can understand and I try to make it as simple as possible.

  53. Seimi

    I only brought it up when the bum attacked me personally and accused me of being someone who always hated him.

    I pointed out that In had defended him on these pages, and that I had made a contribution, hardly the act of one who wanted him dead. That was the enire, sole context.

    What was I supposed to say?

    The nicer you are to some, the more vicious they get. Lesson learned.

    But that is why I said what I did.

  54. Either choose the objects of your respect and admiration more wisely, Seimi, or resign yourself to disappointment.

  55. Phantom: “I only brought it up when the bum attacked me personally and accused me of being someone who always hated him.”

    lol. always the “statesman,” I see…..

  56. And my point about your standing on the graves of Sandy Hook children to push your agenda, Mahons?

    wasn’t that a valid point?

  57. Mahons: your post, your appeal, is an argument awash with emotion as if you were a lawyer in front of a jury and you wish to win us over because we cry tears of compassion and sympathy – and we do – and because you know that our tears will cloud our judgement…and the Dems/Progs need cloudy judgment to win support for their gun control legislation…

    Isn’t it thoughtful of me to point out that you are manipulating us?

  58. Mahons: your post, your appeal, is an argument awash with emotion as if you were a lawyer in front of a jury and you wish to win us over because we cry tears of compassion and sympathy – and we do – and because you know that our tears will cloud our judgement…and the Dems/Progs need cloudy judgment to win support for their gun control legislation…

    Isn’t it thoughtful of me to point out that you are manipulating us?

  59. Patty – I don’t think you posses any judgment, and thus there is no need for anyone to attempt to cloud it over. In order for me to consider you to be thoughtful, I would have to imagine in instance in which you expressed a reasonable thought, and such an event escapes me. You’ve already been manipulated, so I don’t think you can claim to be manipulated by me.

  60. ‘Either choose the objects of your respect and admiration more wisely, Seimi, or resign yourself to disappointment.’

    Patty, I’m not gonna get into your fight with Daphne, or Phantom, or Mahons, or whoever.

    I like the writing styles of some of them, and wish they would contribute more.

    I’m not in the least bit disappointed in anything they have written here. I’m just being honest. Don’t attack the man for something someone else did.

    I don’t agree with much that you say either, but had David set up ‘Patty-Aid’, I would have written the above with your name in place of Troll’s.

    Phantom;

    ‘I pointed out that In had defended him on these pages, and that I had made a contribution, hardly the act of one who wanted him dead. That was the enire, sole context.
    What was I supposed to say?’

    Wasn’t it enough to say (and perhaps show?) when and where you had defended him? Saying, ‘Hey! I also gave you twenty bucks!’ is like demanding that he be under obligation to you, which I’m sure neither of you would want.

  61. Patty

    I held back. I have treated him better than he has deserved.

    And another person, attacked worse than I was, was also a contributor, before me.

    And I notice that you didn’t say boo when he was on these foul rampages, or when he wished children dead, over and over. All that was fine with you. But God forbid anyone want health insurance for the American uninsured. That’s horrible! Statist!

  62. Seimi

    Well I guess you’re a better person that I am.

    When someone who I tried to befriend, who I repeatedly invited to NYC, who I came close to meeting in Philly ( thank God in heaven it never happened ) when that same someone comes shrieking ” you always hated me! ” while shrieking abuse of every kind , I mentioned the first things in my mind. So sue me.

    I’m not bringing it up again – you just did.

    I’ll be happy if the subject never comes up again, and I hope that any and all financial problems are behind him. Life’s too short.

  63. Mahons: please address whether or not you feel your sentimental emotional post above is manipulative because it plays on the readers’ emotions:

    “mall sneakers still sitting by the door. It will be Spring in Newtown, but there will be balls sitting in the garage, jump ropes that remain hanging on a wall, and butterfly nets that remain in the attic.” etc.

  64. He lives near the area. He cares about what happened in a way that you in your reptile mind do not.

  65. Phantom – fair point. Apologies.

    Patty – What Mahons wrote was emotional. Why wouldn’t it be? The shooting took place on his childrens’ birthday, so it’s only natural that it would affect him emotionally. I would, if I could put it as well, have written something similar.

    It was well-written, and was a hell of a lot more sensitive than robo-calling the residents of Newtown.

    What are your thoughts on that? Do you think it was right or wrong to robo-call the residents?

  66. “But God forbid anyone want health insurance for the American uninsured.”

    this is a false premise, Phantom.

    no one ever said that they didn’t want health insurance for the uninsured.

    the debate was always about how.

    you believe government is the solution of every problem. I do not.

    as it looks now, ObamaCare will result in less medical care all around at a greater cost all around.

    surely it would have been more sensible – more compassionate – to issue vouchers to those who could not afford insurance?? it certainly would have been less expensive.

    but being a Progressive/Dem means never having to say “mea culpa.” your intentions are good so that is all that matters! 🙂

  67. Seimi

    No apology needed, ever. I hope that we meet again.

    Patty

    I don’t like Obamacare. I wanted something else. The Republicans never negotiated in good faith, they were devoid of ideas. Obama knew what he wanted and he cut through them like a hot knife through soft butter. A bad plan beats no plan 100 percent of the time, and it is thanks to you and your kind that we will have Obamacare forever. You own it.

  68. Seimi – I don’t know anything about any robo-calls to the residents. I haven’t heard or read anything about this outside of Mahon’s essay.

    Mahon’s needs to provide a link and some proof at the minimum for me to sit up and take interest in this.

    as for Mahon’s essay, it’s propaganda. with or without the robocall line.

    it’s not a thoughtful essay. it’s about damning the NRA and the NRA supporters and painting them as unfeeling and heartless.

    it’s a sentimental repeat of every other MSM story since the murders.

    (generally speaking “a repeat” – not accusing him of plagiarism here. )

  69. Patty – I don’t think one need divorce the emotional impact of factual events. Though not in their league I would not strip Reagan’s wonderful Challenger disaster speech from the emotional chord he struck, or the imagery of Dr. King’s sermons which relied heavily on appeals to our sense of outrage, community and decency.

    I am unaware of any reader of the post who was manipulated into some position that is contrary to their prior beliefs. On the contrary, those opposed to smarter gun legislation seemed to offer the same arguments they have in the past. I assure you if I had merely written “Aw Shucks, the NRA is robo-calling the town of Newtown.” that those here who differ in their view from mine would offer the same nonsense they have since the day of the shooting. Frankly, people who are unable to agree that the NRA’s activity in regard to this instance is at the very least poor judgment are people who are beyond the reach of any words I might write.

  70. Phantom: it’s people like you crying out for government solutions for ordinary problems – NOW NOW NOW – no time to think or solve problems piecemeal – and god forbid we eliminate the state insurance monopolies and try free market solutions – too difficult for statists to understand because you are economically illiterate –

    NOW NOW NOW – bailouts and government takeovers – save us, progressive government! DO SOMETHING!!!

    and now – we have shit for healthcare and its going to cost a fortune.

    Don’t blame me for ObamaCare.

  71. Health care has been discussed in this country for decades. Nixon wanted to do something ( this guy gets more impressive every time you think about him )

    You Republicans had complete command of the House, the Senate and the Presidency in the very recent past. You did nothing at all. Had you put an imprint on this issue, Obama would not have made his move.

    You own this pig.

  72. ‘Seimi – I don’t know anything about any robo-calls to the residents. I haven’t heard or read anything about this outside of Mahon’s essay.’

    Fair enough. Regardless of whether or not it happened, or what you think of Mahons’ essay, do you think it would be right or wrong for the NRA to do this?

  73. Patty – I am sorry, I could only find the story after I devised a cryptic search “nra robocalls” on Google and same the story come up on Fox News, Washington Post, Associated Press, New York Daily News, CBS News…….

    No wonder you missed it.

    Your failure to comment on the robocalls themselves is enough.

  74. She closes her eyes when its her friends who do evil.

    She knows nothing.

    No, really.

  75. BTW

    Notice the Gun Nuts here said nothing against this obscenity.

    They couldn’t shut up for a minute about Bloomberg’s soda policy, but this apparently on this they don’t know nuttin’ and they’re for it if someone tells them about it.

  76. Phantom

    Your a piece of scum,

    First off your ego is undeserved my comment on this thread was directed at Daphne, not you.

    Second you little piece of shit, and yes I am being blunt and rude you did something that no one in the history of this blog has done.

    You wrote a whole post of pure hate against a fellow commentator on here. You went lite on me? You raved like a child, and all the other cretins vented all their bile on your nice thread. Like a pack of little school children.

    You threatened to beat me up if I had the balls to meet you without a gun. I maybe someone who understands the use of violence, but your a person that that revels in hate. It comes through in your comments. The pathetic thing is you don’t even see it.

    You don’t know how to vent your anger and it has eaten a whole in your soul if you had one.

    I’ll meet you anytime tubby, name the place.

    You know I even started conversing on posts with you lately, and when I mistakingly thought you threw an insult at me and you said you didn’t I apologized.

    That is something that you have never done, to me or anyone else.

    You keep bringing up this dead children comment, yes I said it and meant it. Now let me add to it.

    I don’t care what tragedy you have had in your life, it is good you have no mate, your dead inside, a creature of pure bile who it’s best that your genes and your influence can’t be passed on to children on a regular basis.

    This time I’ll extend the invitation Let me know when your coming to Pa. you know how to get my e-mail. I’ll meet you.

    I ignored you for months, I made a mistake believing that you might have actually calmed down and moved on, but your unable to do so aren’t you?

    Your a pathetic lonely man filed with bile and hate, I hope you live and die alone, because that is what you deserve.

    So now come on tubby let loose, give us another hate post, show us more of your true inner self.

    I await with eager joy you childishness.

  77. Mahons I stayed off of this thread because Daphne was on it, the NRA robo calls were stupid, but as I said where is your outrage over Bloomberg?

    Your sense of rage is one sided, your aghast at the NRA but not over all those on the left standing on the bodies of dead children to promote an agenda that the fact that they bring it out over and over whenever a kook goes off proves they don’t care about the victims only their agenda.

  78. You keep bringing up this dead children comment, yes I said it and meant it.

    Well, that settles that. He still wants children dead.

    I guess that no one should ever again pretend that the statements were made in anger, or that ” he is too proud to apologize ” about this most un Christian of all statements here, or anywhere.

  79. Hey Pete where was your call to be civil when Phantom started earlier in the thread? or when Mahons has gone after Patty.

    Your call for civility is really a call to those on the right to just shut up and take what the cretins say laying down.

    Why is that?

  80. Troll –

    My 7.08pm refers to that.

    Please, we’re allowed to hold our tongues. Anyone can see what’s being said here. A couple of times recently DV has had to appeal for civility.

    Everyone please respect his requests and respect the blog.

  81. Yeah I’ve tried civility for months, I’ve not engaged in threads where phantom and daphne are involved, yet they insist on bringing me into threads that I have had nothing to do with.

    I have said what I’m going to say.

    I don’t want anything to do with either of them. They are not welcome to comment on my threads, and if they mention me on someone else’s I will respond, and not nicely.

    I’ve asked them to disengage, I have, but I will not allow scum to mention me without a response.

  82. Troll –

    If you don’t want anything to do with someone, then don’t have anything to do with him or her. Ignore it, don’t respond, let it wash over, be cool. This isn’t your property to do with as you please.

  83. I might think that baying for the death of children, incl very explicit statements against those here, was not civil.

    In what universe is such comment not extremely hateful and extremely un Christian?

  84. Btw

    Reading the above – I never brought him up first, and I wished him well, despite all.

  85. really where did I bring you up before your scree on me? I didn’t comment on you anywhere. I responded to Mahons post and Daphne. So Not only are you ignorant, your stupid.

    And when you become a Catholic priest then you can talk about being Christian, do you even have a religion?

    Phantom your an ass, and a not even a bright one. Learn to read things in context.

    and leave me be, I want nothing to do with you or Daphne. Don’t comment about me and I won’t comment about you.

    Are you mature enough to handle that or not? So far your actions prove you can’t.

  86. Shush. Its not all about you.

    Someone brought up the fundraiser, and comments after that. Those comments were answered.

    You need to be a priest to know its deeply unChristian to call for the blood of children? Comments reaffirmed by you in this hour, Col Jessup style?

  87. Troll – You are free, as far as I am concerned, to use your own posts for your opinions, autobiography and use of foul language. I’ll encourage others to follow my lead and not participate in them to avoid exchanges there. I’ll also suggest to others that they refrain from name-checking you on my posts so you won’t have to participate on them as well. That should aid in keeping the site from turning into a spatfest.

    Pete – your selective invoking of civility is noted.

  88. None of the extreme right here have once commented about hate comments by Troll or anything the NRA ever did. To my knowledge,. There is approval, and solidarity among them.

  89. so I’ll take that as a statement that you prefer that I not comment on your threads than either,

    Opinions are what I thought your post, what all posts ask for. I have done no autobiography here or any of your posts, as for language it is just color to accentuate a point.

    I can respect your call for me for the latter two, since you also don’t want my opinions I’ll respect that also.

    I know it’s always easier to have the sharing of like minds since that is your choice, Affirmation of ones views are always best found in an echo chamber.

  90. Phantom – lets not narrow the discussion to one personality. In a broader sense through the influence of right-wing talk radio and the internet the right wing is accustomed to demonizing any one not walking the party line, in the crude and simple terms of the mentally feeble. It is not their custom to challenge the factually challenged or the extreme language or bile which is common among them. I am sure this applies on far-left wing sites (they just happen to be less prolific).

    My suggestion above- benign neglect, may help save the fun of visiting here. It also may be too late.

  91. Troll – I have personally decided to stay off of yours, but I ban no one, including such wack job as Allan. You are free to comment away, but I’d suggest you do so without resorting to hysteria, foul language (which is better suited to humor than anger) and ongoing feuds.

  92. Phantom –

    There isn’t anyone from the extreme Right here.

    Now I might have tutted at troll’s call for children to be killed, but I’m generally in favour of free speech. Unless rebutting an argument, upbraiding others on what they say like an internet Bloomberg is tiresome and dull.

    Yes, the NRA was whatever you think the NRA was in calling Sandy Hook residents. In fact they were as bad as politicians gathering bereaved families around them within hours. There, the NRA is criticised. The world is better.

  93. I’m beginning to think the answer to these repeated examples of threads descending into low blow slugfests is for a rule to be implemented restricting one American contributor at a time to each thread.. 😉

    Either that or y’all should behave like us lot on this side of the Atlantic, classy, dignified and proper !!

  94. There isn’t anyone from the extreme Right here.

    No? I’d be interested im hearing your definition of extreme right.

  95. I just read what you wrote:

    Troll – You are free, as far as I am concerned, to use your own posts for your opinions, autobiography and use of foul language.

    you may not want to call it banning, that’s fine. But it’s not what your statement right there says.

    I asked you in the past to stay off my threads, and you told me to go to hell, and said you would comment anyway.

    Please feel free to do as you please, I will honor request after this comment that clarifies your request for me to stay off your threads with my opinions, but don’t lie when it is right there for all to read.

    You never post your claims to where I lie. I just did on yours.

    You also call for a boycott of my threads:

    I’ll encourage others to follow my lead and not participate in them to avoid exchanges there. I’ll also suggest to others that they refrain from name-checking you on my posts so you won’t have to participate on them as well

    So not only do you ban me you encourage others to boycott. Those are your words.

    Please abide by them.

  96. Paul McMahon –

    What’s the point? Either my definition would be right or wrong. We’d agree or not, but it wouldn’t make any difference.

    What some would say is extreme Right – nationalism, racism, whatever – were perfectly centrist and routine not so long ago.

  97. What’s the point? Either my definition would be right or wrong. We’d agree or not, but it wouldn’t make any difference

    Alright, we’ll disagree then.

  98. Troll – I’ll note your reading comprehension has not improved over the years. Once more, you aren’t banned, I am asking you to refrain from your excess on my posts, and you are free to ignore the request. My suggestion to others if they wis to follow my lead is an attempt to reduce the spatfest that I find results from engaging directly with you.

    Originally I thought it best if you were kept in factual check, but I was wrong. Benign neglect is the best answer as far as I can see.

  99. George,

    my comments have always been factual, you have never proven otherwise. You are the one who needs to comprehend what you wrote. If you are unable that is nothing new.

    Please read my new post, and abide by it thank you

    Patrick

  100. mahons 1122

    Your point is generally correct about what passes for comment among the extreme right, of which there are many members here.

    I only will say that during the early GW Bush years, the left sounded the same to me. The agenda was set by moveon.org, kaily kos, all that. I had many fistfights with them back in the day.

    But I do note that none of the lefties I spoke to then, and none of the lefties here, now, have stooped to the level that Troll did here, today, nor did they ever call for children’s blood, explicitly.

    There is bright moral line here, and all who pretend not to see it are complicit in it.

  101. Phantom please stop discussing me.

    Are you that insecure that you can’t stop? You are the one that keeps crossing the line. Let it go.

  102. Shush.

    You don’t set any rules.

    Learn to govern yourself, and then see how people react to that.

  103. f you.

    You need to control yourself.

    You want uncivil, bring it on. I’m tired of you. I said nothing to you, and you attacked me. Point out where I commented to you before your remarks.

    Your right I don’t set the rules, but you’re just a low life. Come on carry out the threat you made meet me.

  104. I did not threaten you and I never want to meet you.

    Seek help.

    And this guy has access to guns?

  105. Pete Moore, on March 27th, 2013 at 12:55 PM Said:
    It might be a good idea to close the comments here now.

    Good idea.. I have run out of popcorn 😉

  106. you did threaten me, You said you’d wish I was where you were at so you could punch me out, if I had the balls not to be armed.

    No need Pete, he won, Live Long and Prosper my conspiracy riddled friend.

  107. You said you’d wish I was where you were at so you could punch me out, if I had the balls not to be armed.

    You lie.

    Never said it. Never would.

    I have no desire to punch anyone.

  108. I don’t lie.

    That is what you implied. You then went on a tirade for days ending in your zombie post.

    I own my pettiness and my faults. You can’t.

    Phantom, your scum, but be happy you won.

  109. You have extremely severe reading comprehension, math, logic and memory problems. Apart from that, you’re a genius.

    I wish you well. Now, get lost.

  110. For what it’s worth there’s no point in having a discussion forum if only selected people that you want on there gets to comment. For a start there are many who don’t partake of the slugfest and may stay away from commenting altogether for fear of being seen as taking sides or falling foul of invisible rules. Clearly the answer lies in behaving like adults and respecting DV’s wish for civility. Failing that and given that David is busy earning a living to moderate, the blog will fall and that serves no one. So how about we get back on topic and stick to it. Talk politics and leave out the rest?

  111. Don’t get too invested here, people. Seriously.

    Remember, this is just a simple, anonymous comment thread on an internet blog.

    Don’t let your feelings get hurt, your ego inflated or — if you’re a bird, don’t let your feathers get ruffled…this is a blog.

  112. kateyo –

    I’ve no doubt some people look at threads like these and decide not to associate with what must look like the most dysfunctional blog out there.

    Can’t say I blame them.

  113. Kateyo,
    Your 3:02 and Patty’s 3:04 the voices of commonsense and maturity.
    Commenting on a blog is NOT like joining the Black Hand Gang. We don’t take sides and we shouldn’t exclude anyone.
    We share opinions and views, we try to debate and in that process we get to understand each other a little.
    I have no real gripe against anyone. It seems to me that our number grows smaller when actually they should be increasing.

  114. “The man didn’t ask for the help. He posted about some of the things that were going on in his life, but he didn’t ask for a handout. David offered it. In fact – David didn’t even offer it. He just did it. And he should be commended for it. But the point is – Troll didn’t. He didn’t come on here, virtual-cap in virtual-hand, pan-handling for dollars.”

    Seimi,
    I have just been trawling through this thread. I lost interest when it turned onto guns’things, but I totally agree with you on this.
    If you’re gunna give, GIVE!
    Don’t make a big thing of it and do it for the right reasons.
    In fact at the risk of upsetting people (har! har!)I would suggest that we think a bit more about what is going on here.
    As a man who has experienced being out of work, of wondering how we are going to pay bills etc. I know what it can do to you.
    Patrick told us work was difficult, that his wife (who even I can remember posted good comments) had had surgery. He has children. He is a good family man, and (sorry Troll!) but my guess is that the man’s hurting.
    I don’t say it excuses anything. Heck I don’t excuse him having ago at Ernest!
    But I have been there, have wondered how the heck you’re going to get through.
    So my feeling is that we all need to stop with the insults (again) and do a bit of reflecting on where WE may be at and where someone else may be at.

  115. How come us atheists never get pissed off with anyone 😉

    We lurrrrve everyone ..

    Well apart from Petr, even us Atheists have our limits 🙂

  116. “How come us atheists never get pissed off with anyone”

    They’re all sweetness and light until you disagree with tgem.
    Then all atheist Hell is let loose..

  117. Agit

    Peace 🙂

    Oh, on second thoughts, All those elitists who Lord it over us at Brussels, I hate them too, and Politicians .. and Dentists, shoe shop owners, the Mother Outlaw, oh the list is endless .. oh dear Agit now you have interrupted my karma, my ‘peace and goodwill’ to all has been … shattered 😉

    Hellski, here I come.

    Where has Troll gone?

  118. Troll will return!

    On your first point, have you never noticed how the ATW nice people are nice until you question them?
    I have. I am used to being scorned because of my beliefs, but the “nice” people like to be liked and part of the “in” crowd…. 🙂

  119. Agit8ed, on March 27th, 2013 at 5:10 PM Said:
    Troll will return!

    On your first point, have you never noticed how the ATW nice people are nice until you question them?

    I don’t know, as far as I can tell most of them ignore me anyway 😉

    It’s tough at the top.

  120. Agit8ed, on March 27th, 2013 at 5:12 PM Said:
    Colm,
    that would be nice.
    Unlikely
    but nice.

    It would be Hellfire & Brimstone .. just tell me where and when, I will need to re-stock on popcorn 😉

  121. Whaddya mean they ignore you?

    Er, what’s your name again?

    “It’s tough at the top.”

    You’ll never know…. 🙂

  122. Harri,
    I think the picture of you chomping popcorn whilst others slug it out could be mildly irritating.

  123. The ‘In’ crowd .. I am about as black as black can be in the sheep of the family then .. In fact i am officialy a minority group .. I wonder if Mr Tarasov will be joining me in soildarity?

    I don’t hold out much hope to be absolutely honest 😉

  124. I went to the doctors last week, Doctor I said I need some medication, I think I am becoming paranoid, I think everyone is ignoring me ..

    Two minutes later.

    The Doctor replied .. sorry what did you say I was miles away 🙂

  125. I’ve noticed here, and in places a lot more important than here, that people get along much better once you’ve met them in person.

    Blogs in particular can bring out the very worst in people. Its’ not unique to this site.

  126. Paul,
    No, I won’t give names, but my perception is that when someone comes in with a minority view at first there is a polite rumble of incredulity. Then when you stick to your guns and continue arguing your corner, the politeness drops away and the attacks become sharper.

    Now for example, there are a few of us who claim to hold Christian views. I freely admit to being the most argumentative and aggressive. I shouldn’t be, but I am.

    Yet when we are discussing as we have Gay marriage or anything gay, the Christians who speak up get a good verbal kicking. We’re intolerant. Our views are outdated. We believe a Bible which is full of contradictions. I quite enjoy the action because it makes me think about what I do believe..

    But no one, NO ONE ever mentions the Islamic view on it.
    Nope, nor what devout Muslims feel should be done with homosexuals, nor the fact that when I was being accused of wanting a theocracy (which I don’t) there are many devout Muslims living in the UK who WANT a theocracy, WANT Sharia’ law..

    So on one hand even though we are technically still a Christian nation, Christians get the most criticism, but it is not cool to do the same thing to Islamists because we live in a multicultural society and we’re all up for that!

  127. Phantom,
    Absolutely.
    Human beings are used to reading each other’s facial expressions, which is partly why I don’t like discussing certain things on the telephone and DO like emoticons as an aid to helping people interpret what I really mean.
    Now I know that you and Mahons in particular don’t fully understand the English way,
    but if we spent time together we would end up with a much better understanding of our cultural differences.

  128. Agit

    Muslim = Righteous points

    Minority groups = Righteous points

    The Gay community = Righteous points

    White, Christian = Diddly squat

  129. Agit

    That’s why in business – including in the NYC and London world where I spend much of my time – we do a LOT of in person meetings.

    It would be cheaper to sit and send emails to one another. But that would be a false economy to do so. You learn so much about someone in the first five minutes of a meeting!

  130. Phantom,
    What do you do for a living?
    I don’t think you’ve ever said.
    But if you don’t want to say, that’s fine.

  131. No its fine.

    I place insurance for large US and sometimes non US clients. I deal with insurance companies ( which aren’t banks! ) in the US, UK, Bermuda and sometimes Ireland.

  132. So like that guy Ben Stiller plays in ‘Along came Polly’ the insurance risk assessor?

  133. Not familiar with the show, but that character sounds like he is in the same industry. It is a very large industry, and a risk assessor would be a technical specialist while I would be lets say a financial specialist in ” transferring ” the risk from a client to the insurance company, at the best price and terms.

  134. Gotcha.
    So you’ve got to have good people skills,
    be good with figures and know how to negotiate.

  135. I try, bro.

    It’s one of the things that shocks me – there’s so much more respect for the competition in the business world than there is in politics. I see my competition as my competitors and, often, as my friends. I want to be No. 1, but I want them to do well also. In politics it now seems that everyone sees their adversary as their enemy. That is a major error, and is at the root of half our problems.

    A good chunk of the black / white comment that one sees in politics including here is simply never heard in the business world. The real world is not like that. For a bunch of sound moral, and practical, reasons.

  136. But no one, NO ONE ever mentions the Islamic view on it.
    Nope, nor what devout Muslims feel should be done with homosexuals, nor the fact that when I was being accused of wanting a theocracy (which I don’t) there are many devout Muslims living in the UK who WANT a theocracy, WANT Sharia’ law..

    Perhaps that’s because no Muslims comment on ATW, doesn’t it make sense that if Christians are defending their beliefs then they are robustly questioned on them?

    Now for example, there are a few of us who claim to hold Christian views

    Doesn’t that make you part of the ‘in’ crowd?

  137. Pauly,
    “Perhaps that’s because no Muslims comment on ATW,”
    Well of course that’s true, but they are a part of this multicultural society and they do have very strong extreme views on the issue. So the fact that they don’t personally comment does not mean their views needn’t be mentioned.

    “Doesn’t that make you part of the ‘in’ crowd?”

    I don’t think so.
    I think it puts me on the shortlist to meet the lions.

  138. Agit8ed

    There are lots and lots of posts here on ATW attacking Islam and Muslim intolerance, but at Paul rightly says the comment threads are about individuals discussing each others standpoints and as no Muslims come here to argue their Sharia based view, anti-Muslim rebuttals won;t materialise.

  139. I think it puts me on the shortlist to meet the lions

    I’d say that there are at least an equal amount of people on ATW who have at least a nominal Christian belief as there are who haven’t.

  140. I’d say that there are at least an equal amount of people on ATW who have at least a nominal Christian belief as there are who haven’t.

    At least. The owner of the blog is a Christian, so his own threads are written with a Christian slant, although sometimes, the views expressed appear to be so anti-Christian, that the slant is more of a vertical drop 😉

    Someone coming on here with even a pro-Muslim view, let alone a pro-Sharia view, wouldn’t last, or stay, more than a few minutes.

  141. I think Pete Moore deserves credit here for insisting on civil discourse so his and Allan’s holocaust denial. conspiracy theories and white supremist theories can attract readers….

  142. Mahons, on March 28th, 2013 at 2:35 AM Said:
    I think Pete Moore deserves credit here for insisting on civil discourse so his and Allan’s holocaust denial. conspiracy theories and white supremist theories can attract readers….

    Searching for the truth tends to that.

    white supremist theories

    That’s a new one.

  143. “Someone coming on here with even a pro-Muslim view, let alone a pro-Sharia view, wouldn’t last, or stay, more than a few minutes.”

    Seimi,
    How cynical you are!
    Personally I would welcome a Muslim slant on things. A male and a female Muslim blogger would be great. I think it would add balance and challenge our preconceptions. This country has about 2 million Muslims. Ireland has about 27. Someone on this blog must have close Muslim friends?

    Or one of you could convert?
    Mahons?
    You’re a fair minded man…

    We could also use a Buddhist, a Hindu…
    Allan? Any offers?!

  144. I think we have realists.
    Pragmatists?
    I think we could probably do with more of them!
    I like to think I’m a peacemaker in between annoying people..
    🙂

  145. That was a very clever comment!

    Thanks. I had the bolts in my neck tightened this morning 🙂

Comments are closed.